kimmy

What you'd consider proper boxing form and footwork aren't used in MMA because they're only useful in boxing. They'd be disastrous in a sport where you have to worry about takedowns and kicks. The boxing stance and footwork are only useful within the restricted framework of boxing. Most MMA fighters (even ones from other striking disciplines, like muay thai) train in boxing, because it can be applied to MMA more readily than other striking forms. Rogerio Nogueira won the boxing gold medal at the Pan Am games, but doesn't go into his MMA fights attempting to fight like a boxer. Guys like Frankie Edgar, BJ Penn, Georges St Pierre, Cain Velasquez, and Anderson Silva could step into a boxing ring and not look out of place. Could they compete against elite-level boxers? Certainly not. But they'd be competent. They're very well trained at boxing. I did see an MMA guy fight a boxing guy in a boxing match, at a regional show that was broadcast on Sportsnet. And the boxing guy certainly had the edge, but if the announcers hadn't mentioned that the one fighter competes at MMA rather than boxing, you wouldn't have guessed. You'd figure it was a boxing match where one guy was a little more talented than his opponent. The relationship between boxing and MMA is like the relationship between longest drive contests and golf. Could Tiger Woods go into a Longest Drive competition and win? He might do ok, but he probably couldn't beat guys who do nothing except practice driving all day. Could a longest drive champ go into a PGA event and look like he belonged? He'd look ridiculous. Being great at boxing would be a great asset for an MMA fighter, but it's just one part of the puzzle. You can't become a great quarterback by just practicing throwing footballs through hoops... you can't become a great hockey player by just practicing your slapshot on your driveway. -k

They describe the situation, and provide a definition of conflict of interest, but decline to outright declare this situation a conflict of interest. "Political correctness"? No. They're afraid that if they connect the final dot they'll get an expensive lawsuit on their hands. Sadly, that's probably a very legitimate concern. They've uncovered some facts that should make the public, the board of directors, and legal/regulatory officials ask questions. They've done their part and somebody in a position of authority ought to pick it up from here and connect that final dot. If nobody else is willing to make the final step, it's an indictment of somebody or maybe of the system in general, but it's not the Toronto Star's fault. -k

I feel exactly the same when I see a Crown Victoria on the road. If you see a Crown Vic, you can be sure that behind the wheel there is either a cop, or an old-person. Either way, stay well away. -k

That is horrendous and deplorable. I had been in favor of letting this guy come to Canada and prove what a moron he is, but after seeing that video I'm leaning towards banning him. That's just disgusting and appalling. -k

I've had a hard time reconciling this intense dislike of mixed martial arts with the upholding of hockey as an example of Real Canadian Manly-Man Values. I saw a few minutes of the Leafs-Senators game last night. I saw 3 fights, of which two ended with a guy on the ice getting punched in the head. Not exactly recent, either... Dave Brown was doing "ground'n'pound" long before Randy Couture. We already discussed blindside hits to the head. Ask people what hockey player most embodied the Canadian warrior mentality, and chances are pretty good that Scott Stevens will get mentioned. What's he most famous for? Knocking people out while they're looking the other way. Thursday's Oilers-Flames game had an MMA-quality knock-out... Ivanans had been running around and had already injured two Oilers in the third period, so he definitely had this coming. Real Canadian Man Bob McKenzie weighed in on the fight. He knows why the fight happened, but he doesn't know what the point of Ivanans being out there in the first place was. Was he supposed to be "sending a message"? As McKenzie puts it, "If the Flames really want to send a message, they should try scoring a goal." MacIntyre has a job because the Oilers know that somebody like Ivanans will be out there trying to rough up guys like Eberle and Hall. Ivanans has a job because his coach puts him on the ice to "send a message" by roughing up smaller, weaker players. How Canadian is that? "We're embarrassed to be losing this badly. Go hit that kid." McKenzie, who is as Canadian and as big as a hockey fan as there is, and is one of the most respected hockey commentators in the country, tried to explain how he can be a UFC fan while also being opposed to increasing goonery in hockey: -k

You wanted to talk about "gutless and cowardly", so what's legal for them to do is irrelevant. If it's gutless and cowardly, it's gutless and cowardly regardless of whether they're authorized to use force Ditto, and the claim as to how they'd act in a bar fight is pure unjustifiable speculation. Your notion that a bar fight goes according to Marquess of Queensbury Rules is pretty funny. But at least bar fights tend to get broken up before anybody gets hurt too badly. It's the fight on the street after closing where you've got to be extra careful, and avoid it if at all possible. If you've got an opponent that you can afford to let stand up and continue fighting, you have an opponent that you don't actually need to be fighting in the first place. If you've got an opponent you need to be fighting, you can't afford to give him more chances to hurt you. Members of police forces and Canadian Forces understand this, and it's why they're trained to do what they do. The time to be magnanimous is *after* your opponent no longer wishes to fight. If he's had enough after getting knocked down, that's great... but if it takes sitting on his chest and feeding him a few shots to make him decide he's had enough, so be it. -k

Ross Perot 2012!! -k

That you think blindside hits to the head in hockey are fine but are in high dudgeon about fighting on the ground says all that need be said. You have a truly messed up moral compass, my friend. Members of Canadian police forces don't give their opponents a standing 8-count in a fight. They'll put their opponent on the ground, and will strike him if necessary to gain compliance. Members of the Canadian armed forces will strike (and worse) at a grounded opponent. And as you've already agreed, the Real Canadian Men of Ice Hockey will keep pummeling at a downed opponent until the referee stops them. So these claims about how "real Canadian men" fight are just fiction. -k

You can keep saying how "real Canadian men" act in a fight, but you're quite simply wrong. End of story. There's nothing unmanly about making sure an opponent no longer poses a threat to you before you let up on him. Real Canadian men don't keep giving hostile opponents more chances to harm them. Only a moron would. Whether you wish to self-identify there is of no concern to me. And there's nothing cowardly about attempting to hit an MMA fighter on the ground... it's an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Some of the best fighters in the world have been beaten while attempting it. Coaching the pee-wee lacrosse team doesn't make you an authority on fighting either. Me whiffling? I've been on point the whole thread. You're the one whiffling. You've utterly floundered in your attempts to bring any sort of reasoned argument here, and are left with nothing except your fiction about how "real Canadian men" fight, and howling "gutless and cowardly" over and over and over. And to try to distract from how badly you're floundering, you're trying to taunt me with "chickie" and "you probably hit like a girl" and "phantom bubbas" and "oh the bravery". It's the last resort of a beaten man. Yeah, you think it's acceptable to hit a guy who's down if you're "educating him". I think it's acceptable to hit a guy whose down if he's intent on harming you as soon as he gets back up. Most real Canadian men agree with me. There are no sucker punches in MMA. Sorry. But if hockey players are evidence of the "real Canadian men" code of contact, then sucker-punches are as Canadian as beaver-tails on the Rideau. How many sucker punches did Real Canadian Man Tie Domi deliver in his illustrious career? Real Canadian men love nothing better than to see a guy take a blind-side hit in the head. Real Canadian men know that a blindside hit to the head is good clean hockey, as long as the elbow stays down. Real Canadian men know that you never let up on your opponent. Real Canadian men know that if a guy gets laid out, it's his own fault for not keeping his head up. Nothing gutless or cowardly about ending a kid's career with a blindside hit to the head... as long as your elbow stays down. It's a clean hit! It's just the rules! That's how real Canadian men play the game! How manly. How courageous. To say nothing about how real Canadian men conduct themselves in scrums in hockey. To say nothing of real Canadian men like Tie Domi or Steve Downie who've made careers of cheap-shots and sneak attacks. Anybody who watches a few NHL games is going to be left with a rather different idea of the "real Canadian man" code of honor than the fiction you've been talking about. -k

There's no cultural tradition. Also, coaching a pee-wee soccer team doesn't make you an authority on fighting. Also, even the kids on your soccer team are smart enough to not let up on a hostile opponent until after the threat is ended. I have an instructor. I don't need tips from a pee-wee soccer coach. Yeah, reference another thread that went badly for you. That'll show me. Were the painfully inept smack-talk, faux laughter, and emoticons intended to distract from the fact that you don't actually have a response? As you're now agreed that hitting a downed opponent is appropriate in certain circumstances, we clearly have nothing further to discuss. -k

If you really think that Canadian men adhere to your fanciful notions of chivalry when faced with a threat, you're either incredibly naive or incredibly dumb. Bait you? No. I'm just pointing out the obvious: your knowledge of the subject is made plain by your own statements, and it's about as impressive as your knowledge of modern physics, Neutrino Man. When was the last time "cultural tradition" won out over individual freedom in this country? Whether gay marriage or Sunday shopping or turbans in the RCMP... the people claiming "cultural tradition" as the reason to forbid something are on a terrible losing streak, and that's not going to change. "Cultural tradition" and a dollar will get you a donut at Tim Horton's. You're on the losing side. What can you do about it, aside from trolling a few people on an internet forum? Nothing. I hope this thread is therapeutic for you, because it's the only satisfaction you're going to get on this topic. MMA is in Canada to stay. Sorry. -k

Another fascinating visit to Planet Oleg. -k

We're talking about Da Shwa here. As much fun as I've had sparring with my boxing instructor over the past few years... if a fight breaks out, I'm still putting my adversary on their back as quickly as I can. When somebody is standing in front of me with the intention of causing me harm, giving them a fair and sporting chance to do so is the last thing on my mind. My only obligation is to myself in that situation. If they wanted a sporting chance at hurting me, they picked the wrong chick. They're going to get judoed onto their backs, and then they're going to get put in an arm-lock until the bouncer gets there, or they're going to get choked or pummeled until they're no longer capable of mounting a threat to me. And having seen how red-blooded Canadian men act, I believe the overwhelming majority feel the same way. I suspect the same is true of red-blooded Pakistanis, red-blooded Navajoes, red-blooded Moroccans, and red-blooded men from any other corner of the globe: when someone is trying to hurt you, it is your duty to yourself and your family to protect yourself as effectively as possible. Every other consideration is secondary at best. Your idea of how real red-blooded Canadian men act in a fight indicates that you've probably never seen a real fight. ...and this post makes me wonder if you're doing this as some sort of parody. (but if not, wow.) "cultural tradition" has been offered as a justification for everything from denying womens' suffrage to forcing kids to recite the Lord's Prayer in school to not allowing Sikhs to wear turbans inside Legion halls. It never works. Why do you think it works this time? It doesn't. Like everything else you've offered here, it's full of fail. The four biggest provinces have now sanctioned MMA. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. -k

Gee, I go away for a week and this dog-shit is still going on? I've never had to deal with anything scarier than a knife... so imagine my surprise when I mentioned self-defense and you started talking about all these pistol-packing, drug-dealing gangsters that kids apparently need to protect themselves against. But that was just sheer retarded hype, just like everything else you've offered in this thread. You completely failed with a safety argument, looked like a complete fool attempting to sound like you know anything about fighting, grasped for some pitiful slippery-slope hysterics, and have nothing left except repeating over and over. Infantile. You know what's gutless, cowardly, and unmanly? You are. And when you start using "defending Canadian cultural traditions" as an argument, and start accusing people who don't agree with you of being immigrants, you're taking a page out of Mr Canada's playbook, and cease to be relevant. -k

Good point... I bet James Toney feels like he got ****** up the *** pretty hard... Gee, Da Shwa sounds like a terrible place to live. Personally I've been in a lot of fights, and a lot more situations that could have turned in to fights, and learning Judo at a young age has served me well. The kimlets will certainly learn Judo as soon as they're ready. Personally I think that a martial art is generally a pretty good thing for kids to learn. It's undeniable that Brazilian jiu-jitsu is exploding in popularity, and it's obvious that UFC is the reason why. Whether people are signing up with the expectation of battling gun-toting drug-dealers, or to learn to protect themselves from bullies, or because they want to be like Georges St Pierre when they grow up, or because it looks cool on tv, I can only speculate. I'm guessing the latter three more so than the first. So where do pro boxers fit in? -k

First off, to be clear: this was in Israel? Second, I think we'd need to know whether this "rabbinic court" has any legal authority. And third, it's another great example of the kind of religious stupidity that I'd fight to keep out of Canadian law. I doubt anybody here is going to look at this and say "well, it wasn't Muslims, so I don't see a problem with it." It's stupid. Why are Canadians more concerned about conservative Muslims than conservative Jews? We've got a lot more of the former here. If we had extremist Jews like these guys making noises in Canada, people would get sick of them in a hurry. -k

It's funny. All these years, for far longer than the UFC has been around... karate schools and tae kwon do schools and judo schools and (wait for it) boxing clubs have proclaimed the benefits of learning self defense. It never occurred to me until now that all along parents could have been saying "you know, I think I'm just going to buy li'l Jimmy a gun." -k

And to be clear, it's those holy rollers who I am making fun of here. -k

I think that's the heart of the problem. NBC was pretty up front about it when they moved Jay Leno into prime time last year (what a bright idea that turned out to be!) Their explanation was that even if Leno didn't draw the same ratings as the handful of new shows that he was taking the place of, it was still a cost effective move because the lower revenue is more than offset by their savings on the cost of developing new shows. Maybe the revenue model for broadcast TV has broken down to the point that producing new quality programs is no longer viable, and all that's left is sports, reality shows, and a handful of proven winners that keep sticking around (police procedural franchise, medical melodrama franchise, generic sitcoms #1 and #2.) Maybe the good shows are all on cable now because cable has the revenue model figured out: there are enough people who will pay to watch something good to make producing something good a viable business. I think August at some point predicted this. -k

Thet's right, pa! Let's git us some torches an' pitchforks! This village needs a lynchin'!!! -k

Moronic. -k

Who's being sarcastic? Christine O'Donnell's witchcraft dabblery is apparently big news! -k {and justifiably so, because how can you put someone tainted by the occult in the Senate? It's sacrilicious!}

Just as long as she doesn't listen to the rock and the roll music. All that suggestive rocking and rolling of the hips is clearly intended to incite young people to have s... e... x... and it is no wonder that so many young girls are becoming pregnant since the rock and roll music became popular. -k

Indeed. She may have been only a teenager, but Satan's Mark has been placed upon her for life! Now if we could only do something about those terrible Harry Potter books that are causing so many of our young people to be doomed to eternal damnation! Harry Potter is worse than abortion for all of the young souls it has destroyed. Why are all of the books and shows for young people about witches and vampires and zombies and dabbling in the occultery and leading people to experiment with Satan? Why isn't anybody writing about JESUS Potter? And if Christine O'Donnell participated in Dungeons & Dragons then clearly she is full of the Devil's propaganda! !!!!! -k

People are going to start shooting each other because of UFC? -k