kimmy

You know who shows up and says "I'M BORED"? Four year olds, Jack. Showing up in a thread to announce that you're not interested is just plain infantile. "WGAF?" Punked, Michael Hardner, and American Woman were all interested enough to comment on it, so there's "WGAF." Maybe the fact that you're not interested in the topic just isn't as important as you'd like to think it is. Maybe if you "DGAF" about US politics, you should steer clear of the US politics altogether. In fact, if all you've got left to offer this forum is your ongoing feud with "Professor Kitzel", maybe you should find a forum more suited to your interests, like footballboards.com or boobs.com. -k

Over the decades North American Christians have had sense beaten into them often enough to know better. A significant portion of North American Muslims have not yet gone through hat maturation process, and it will take generations. It is certainly not helped by the fact that many of their leaders and teachers are themselves imported from areas where this talk of womens' independence is viewed as foolishness if not heresy. -k

As a North American woman, I extremely privileged to have grown up in a society where my choices in life are my own and not dictated to me by fathers or husbands or clerics. -k

which I continue to believe. And if Rauf is exploiting 9/11 to reach out and win more converts, then it's not quite the selfless peace mission its supporters are claiming. If his goal is making peace, fine, but if his goal is spreading Islam, then I certainly don't wish him well. -k

Do you get this pissy when Team Democrat post cheerleading messages here? -k

Despite your claims that he is a liberal, he seems like a traditionalist, a firm believer in Sharia. His stated mission of building bridges seems more to me like making America more accommodating of Islam. Whether that's a good intention is highly subjective, and you already know how I feel about it. -k

As a North American woman, I see no reason to celebrate the furthering of Islam in our countries. -k

I make no claim about Imam Rauf's intentions at all, beyond the fact that he is exploiting 9/11 to spread his message. Since you've agreed to that, I see nothing left to discuss with you. Whether his intentions are "good" is a highly subjective matter, and I won't speculate on them. Why don't you give up before you make a bigger fool of yourself? -k

I just thought the ending of your little fantasy-dialog was pretty ironic, considering that the Islamic extremists who killed your fantasy Muslim's daughter are probably the same Islamic extremists who are planting bombs or poisoned gas outside girls' schools in Afghanistan. Would Muslims kill Muslim daughters? Some of them sure would. -k

That his message may be laudable does not alter that he is, indeed, exploiting 9/11 to spread it. If his message is peace and coexistence, then I think it's a fine message. If his message is "Islamic Dawa from the Rubble of the World Trade Center", then I feel little reason to think highly of it. "Come for the swimming pool, and stay for the sermon!" Yippee. -k

Muslim daughters killed by Muslim ideology? Gee, that would be a first! -k

Because he is useful for them. Your inability to grasp this very simple concept speaks volumes about you. Rauf himself says that this location is an important part of his message due to its link to 9/11. Therefore, he's exploiting 9/11 to spread his message. QED. -k

Muay thai elbows are seldom used in MMA, even by guys with muay thai backgrounds. The vertical elbow smashes are against the rules, and the spinning elbows are too risky to throw in MMA because you risk giving up your back. People who aren't familiar with the sport assume that there's going to be crazy elbow smashes and flying kung-fu kicks and stuff like that. The truth is, the dominance of grappling in MMA makes flashy kicks and spinning elbows too risky to be of use. MMA striking tends to look a lot like boxing, with kicks to the legs added in. As for the boxing form of MMA fighters... I think one has to realize that boxing would look a lot different if boxers had to worry about being taken down or being kicked. What happened to James Toney was .. heh.. well, he failed to land even a single punch, got put on his back, and put in a submission hold by a guy who is 20 pounds smaller and nearly 50 years old. Boxing fans (and boxers) who ridicule the grappling aspect of MMA should take note. -k

To think that logic and reason will win out over emotion in anything involving 9/11 is utterly naive. -k

Ok, I've had a team of cryptographers go over this, and they tell me they think you're trying to say that the US State Department's sanction of his middle east mission proves that his Park 51 project isn't an attempt to exploit 9/11. My response is: that's ridiculous. -k

As Imam Rauf himself has said (speaking of Muslim anger at America), emotions are more powerful than logic. He's (unwittingly, I'm sure) giving Islamists a tool to inflame American emotions, and all the logic in the world isn't going to fix it. -k

Rephrase that so it makes sense, and get back to me. -k

All that matters is that it's a mosque on "the rubble of the World Trade Center". The rest of the distinctions will be lost on the Islamists. All that matters is that it's a mosque on "the rubble of the World Trade Center". The rest of the distinctions will be lost on the Islamists. They'll vanish in America too, once Islamists make this site a topic of inflammatory rhetoric. -k

Do you think people will still see Park 51 as a friendly outreach project when it becomes a topic of Islamist rhetoric? -k

Stopping this project might piss off third world Muslims? Who cares? They're pissed off already. That bell has already rung. But mainstream Americans have not-- to this point-- become pissed off at Muslims. This project offers the potential for that to happen. -k

Yes, that's exactly it. He has a message that fits the US's middle east message, and he might have enough credibility with third-world Muslims that they don't see him as an Uncle Tom. That's not very complicated, is it? I don't see what point you're trying to make. -k

If you think people are mad about Park 51 right now, wait until after the Islamists start telling their followers "We smashed down their towers and built a mosque!" People will see this thing as their enemy's symbol of victory, and all of Imam Rauf's cries that it is not will do little to convince them otherwise. -k

That his message of co-existence and the compatibility of Islam with democratic government is convenient for US State Department purposes in the middle east really doesn't have anything to do with Park 51. That's a non-sequitur. -k

That has to be the flimsiest definition of liberal I've ever heard of. Do you consider Stephen Harper and George W Bush to be liberals too? -k

If one sets out to build a monument on somebody else's "hallowed ground", there is going to be controversy. If the people who revere the site for whatever reason don't think your message is in keeping with the reasons for their reverence, they're not going to be happy. So I see no reason why we should be happy to see Islamists given a monument to their cause. -k