kactus

The only thing is the town of Sirte is bordering see which makes this assessment implausible.

Most news reports point to the fact that he is dead. I would share the same sentiment as Topza in so far as I would have liked to see him captured and stand trial...If true, he shared the same fate as Osama Bin Laden.

So what that the western world is providing paletinians with foreign aid? Surely you are not suggesting that the "foreign aid" much of the western world provides the palestinians is a threat to Israel??? Reality is the US is providing Israel approx 3bil dollars of aid annually from tax payer's money. Some suggest this benefits the military industry others claim this aid helps Israel to facilitate their achievements in medical, science, etc. I like to think that this aid irrespective in whichever way or means is paid is entirely political and serves both the US interest as well as the survival of Israel...

But...Babylonians were going to massacre the jews and had it not been because of the persians; jews would have been massacred big time! Persians were their saviour. Read the bible it is all stated there. My point of contention is your style of cherrypicking events from the past to suit your personal agenda! Heck! I don't give a shit about ahmy which you compare to Hitler. As far as I am concerned they are the mass murderers of the protesters in the recent election in Iran. There is clearly enough evidence to draw a distinction between the government and the people. What I find bigotry is your deliberate attempt on this forum to demonise the population at large because of their religion! Especially one which throughout the history was a great saviour of jews.

I just came across this thread and have to say kudos to JB Globe for bringing a different perspective into this discussion! Frankly, it is rather refreshing to see a healthy and logical debate going on here instead of the usual bigotry and sweeping generalisations I have seen by certain posters.

It was King Cyrus the Great, the creator of Persian empire, whose nation saved the Jews from the Babylons and allowed them to go back to Jerusalem to build the second temple! It is amasing that you say jews didn't return from Babylonian exile but conveniently ignore the fact that they were also saved big time by the persians from the massacre! Your negative generalisations as usual paints a different picture from facts! Look up the history! Facts are facts like some people keep reminding... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_cylinder

Well I'm sorry to disappoint you but it has worked for chinese so far! How would one otherwise explain the rising unemployment in some countries??? With the low labour cost, cheap raw materials and demand for consumers like you and me for bargains who can stop them?

Who are you kidding? China with its fast growing economy needs ME countries ever more than before for their vast oil! They couldn't be in a better position economically and politically! So long as the chinese can get their oil at the right price in exchange for importing chinese made goods at a fraction of the labour cost into these countries everything is on course...

Yes I do... But the list goes until modern era as it is mentioned in the link! You can bring up thousands of prominent names by a google search in the modern era. Here's another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Irania...s_and_engineers The point of contention as I already stated is mixing criticising the policies of the government with their people.

Achievements of a society is not only based on religious beliefs but their intellect and competence. Here's a list of all people contributing to the society and the world at large: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irani...ts_and_scholars I don't think their achievement has anything to do with religion! Feel free to criticise the governments you don't agree with their policies but to blame the people of the region is utter stupidity and blatant ignorance!

And which countries would be in that civilised world versus the barbarians exactly!? Is this another tactic to lump all those countries within close proximity to Israel!??? It's the same argument over and over again.... It's just your assertions which is is intended to deliberately blow the trumpet for jews and label the rest as evil. What the heck if I had jewish roots I would also unreservedly support Israel against the so called barbarians.... Back in the old days the civilised world was meant to refer to the west against barbarian communist east Russia! With the communism gone middles eastern countries are the target irrespective of the country....

Russians only do what serves their interest. Frankly they wouldn't hesitate to backstab the americans. Time will tell...

You're right! I have placed another link here. It's worth mentioning whoever saw the entire 20 minutes interview with the doctor that tried to save Neda's life, he can no longer go back to the country. Here's the BBC article which I was going to place here: ... Full article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8113885.stm

Another video on what Michael Ignatieff had to say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZve982ACvA&eurl

Hehe, good point Sharkman... I might be accused of not being able to substantiate on my claims on that last comment.

One of the many Iranian singers called Andy performing a duet with Jon Bon Jovi as a solidarity in the memory of those Iranians died in the revent protest.

By far this is the best and most accurate statistical analysis that supports the claims of opposition in Iran that the polling was indeed rigged. ... Due to the nature of this brutal regime harrassing their own citizens I am not at all surprised that respondents are reluctant to take part in surveys as confirmed by this report. The entire election process was a farce and prediction of Ahmadinejad winning the election was already known before the election results were announced. Full article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8119658.stm

The current mullahcracy in Iran is the worst tragedy of repression in the 21st century. Frankly, where there's strict media censorship, the videos uploaded by these brave demonstrators illustrate only a fraction of the crimes committed by this regime. The only visibility that they have is to have mullahs piecemouth on the state television herding their bunch of supproters. Their grip to power is seriously under question. The regime is terrified by the magnitude of the demonstrations and losing power.

Well... You said it yourself "as long as the methodology is good". There are plenty of reasons to question the validity of such polls.

And finally a tribute to MJ. Never liked that weirdo that much especially when he stared messing around with children. But this song is one of my old time favourites. It depicts quite nicely what is happening inside Iran right now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOx4avw8WY&eurl

Ever since the revolution in 1979 I have not seen a credible source of polling carried out in Iran including the foreign ones. Why? Simply because the current regime in Iran is very secretive and the sample size for these polls are not representative. Take a look at this one done just before the election by telephone interviews from a neighbouring country based on a sample size of 1,001 interviewees. What is even more rediculous is the fact that respective opposition candidates even lose to Ahmadinejad in their own constituencies. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9061401757.html Where is the good old MORI and GAAP... The results of the election were known 2 hours after the polling stations are closed. I mean how on earth is that possible through counting the ballot boxes? Yet, the representative from the guardian council confirmed recently that on 50 provinces there were more than 100% votes. How rediculous is that? The results of this election was already known. It favoured Moussavi but the generals and commanders saw that his victory would result in a green revolution, which is why it was annuled! Here's what Obama had to say: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8122028.stm If the elections were to be free as ayatollahs claim what explains videos like these? In this video peaceful protesters are shot at from the top of a building: In this video a man is shot in the head:

Another video from CNN This shows the level of brutality by the riot police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6weNzEmEP4

Well you have to look at the source of the problem. Years of hardship and repetitive sanctions imposed on iranians has taken its toll on the economy and people. This coupled with the fact that the whole election process was a farce was a major factor for curent protests. These people are not threatening. They lack the basic freedom. The lack of credibility for polling and re-election of Ahmadinejad for another 4 years despite the foregone conlusion that his opposition should have won by a big margin was the trigger.

Well there comes a time when a man makes a conscience decision that enough is enough especially when those belief systems are so old and antiquated that nobody endorses them but the supreme leader and his close associates. You mention if you love them they have a choice to either mutually love back or to hate. Well it doesn't work with mullahs. Afterall, they have their followers/ herders who love the ideology (supreme leader) and the indiginous Iranian population that hates them. Either way, mullahs enjoy the popularity and the attention they get externally. So long as they can evolve with this belief system and find sympathisers they will always have followers. Maybe not in Iran but elsewhere!

And here is where the danger lies people like Khamenei and his puppet Ahmadinejad are fanatical devouts to that very old school and would become a martyr for that ideologie. It doesn't matter how many Iranians they will kill in that process so long as they can survive. Well that's the $64,000 question how? If you know the answer to that I will be oliged to hear.