kactus

Another video. Fairly recent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_yRk2sNPR0...player_embedded

Amen to that!

Like one needs a proof that tthe death of that young girl Neda was fake and it's tomato ketchup put all over her. There's tons upon tons of videos and first class evidence of people who participated in those protests and report of a 'massacre' on the streets of Tehran. But hey there's a strict media present there so these f...ers can get away with whatever trhey want and ask for proof. Same old tactics the regime uses to blame the outside interferance to build support of the indigenous population and raise their patriotic passion. Well no more in this time and age. Have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ql7mvNu4s8...re=channel_page This is persian BBC reporting of the riot police damaging personal property and breaking into someone's house. The state television controlled by Ayatollahs namely supre leader Khamenei blames the damage to the personal properties on iranian protesters and foreign elements to create confusion and misinformation.

Intereting article on collaboration of Nokia Siemens with the government of Iran last year: Any lawyers here? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/06/w...internet-users/

It has been mentioned on a numerous occasions and I know that for fact that some of the riot police in recent demonstrations taking place in Iran are imported from arab countries as they can only speak broken farsi. They have used brutal force against Iranian protesters. The irony is this regime spends more time supporting and financing hamas explicitly with iranian taxpayers money whilst currently terrorising and killing ordinary iranian citizens. The problem with these demonstrations is that they are not organised or lack leadership. The organisers have either been detained or killed. The level of protests speak a volume about the dissatisfaction of the major sect of the population with this antiquated, corrupted regime. Furthermore, there is no credible opposition to the regime unlike 1979 revolution that saw the overthraw of the shah facing opposition from communism and islam. Islam prevaded and that is the crisis Iran is facing today.

I couldn't agree more Myata! I think you are one of the minority that takes and even handed view on this! Unfortunately as much as one tries to remain unbiased it's very difficult to keep that here on this forum. Certainly if you were a canadian/ american jew its quite plausible that you will not critisize the actions of the israeli government no matter how destructive they may deem just like a palestinian arab may not condone the savagery actions of Hammas against innocent civilians. This conflict is all about 'the Chosen people' and religion. So long as both sides pretend it has nothing to do with religion or 'the most righteous to the land', which has everything to do with it then neither garners my sympathy or understanding. Israel is begging (as it has many times in it's history btw) to never live in peace. The groups like Hamas and their supporters are likewise begging for annihilation. After all the years -- whether it's the past 70 or the past 5000 -- if religion truly wasn't a factor there would've been peace long ago. I have yet to see anything to change that notion with me. Subsequently neither side gets my sympathy and I'm not particularly interested in either of their sufferings or watching their children end up dead. A perfect example would've been the 'proportional response' propaganda. The best propaganda is based on truth and the "they fired rockets on us" is always going to resonate. Indeed both sides try and fight a war by hitting as hard as they can while pretending they are hitting only as hard as they have to because they are suing for peace. The major thing Israel does well and pulls the wool over the eyes of the West is by pretending it isn't about religion with them or about the holy sites and who has ultimate authority over them.

O'really? By making such statements you are basically denying their legitamacy! (palestinians) Is this some kind of gradual shift of belief in denial of a group of people and their rights by insinuating that palestinians never existed and that's all a fantasy?

Yup as expected a bunch of drivel is confirmed and you are full of it!

You know this problem isn't only unique to middle east it's human's nature. Unfortunately in the case of Israel/ palestinians they both side of the coin sucks as they both have their propaganda machine and share of blame. Try this experiment: If you have a garden wall that you share with your neighbour offer to rebuild it at your expense. However, what you do is just widen your part of the garden by 2 inches, no more than 2 inches. Now never mind the number of times you will have shared drinks with your neighbour, never mind the age/religion/shared experiences/endless chats/dinners/shared DIY tools/baby sitting/family deaths etc. That 2 inches (even if it is riddled with weeds and slugs) will overtake yours and your neighbours life. Its human nature, there is a genetic mechanism in our bodies that revolts against what is taken away from us especially land.

Right sir!2 This is getting very childish now I challenge you to substantiate your claim above. Where on earth did you get the idea that "folks like me" suppoted Mufti? Unless you can prove it on this thread then I see nothing but a bunch of drivel and personal attacks...

Why should he be an embarasment to folks like me? Please elaborate...

Not too sure about this Westviking! Are you implying that there were no palestinians in the region before Yassir Arrafat came to power? I mean if you wanna look at it from a palestinian/ arab perspective they would say why doesn't Europe open its doors to jews from Israel and solve the problem overnight! So where do we go from here?

Can we move on? A lot more attrocities has happened since! It amazes me why some still get fixated on this.

Well believe it or not they do amongst palestinians. That's how they got the vote in the first place. I agree with the notion that Israel is a sovereign nation but my point was and still is that as a responsible nation first it should mend ties with her neighbours. If every single country in the region is unhappy with your policies (I am not referring to you it's quite rhetorical) then maybe you should look deep inside and analyse what's wrong instead of alienating yoruself.

Well... If you've read the article then you will know that it's very much because of his views that he is not allowed to enter the UK. This implies that the home secretary has quite rightly made the decision to stop him expressing his views in her country by not granting him entry . Ofcourse he is free to express those views over you tube to his british audience but it also sends him a strong message that his views can simply not be tolerated in UK.

Whilst I understand what you are implying here my position is not taking sides either with Israel or Hammas! My point of contention primarily focuses on Israel's PR machine at work and the image they have created of themselves in the ME. Same goes for Hammas propaganda machine. If they (Israel) are not even getting that right amongst the muslim worlds (countries like Turkey/ Jordan) then what chances do they have with the rest of the world other than sucking up to brits and americans for all their problems?

Just an observation... We all know what Hammas is capable of doing to Israel and vice versa. but.... I have always been wondering why people keep bringing these fine examples of israelis with brits or americans as if they are inseparable buddies at birth!? One thing for sure one could have replaced the example of the brits soldier with a turk. Afterall Turkey is in a much closer proximity and given the history of Ottomans would be a fine example. As for the italian they could be replaced with the friendly peace loving Jordanian/Egyptian.

Hi BubberMiley, I have no doubt that UK like any other country is free to disallow him or anyone else for that matter entering the country. The question is does he have a case against the home secretary and do you think he should have been allowed to exprees his views? kactus

For those of you who may not have heard about this this has been on the news recentlt and there are rumours that the lawyers are jumping on the band wagon to defend Michael Weiner aka 'Savage' on a no win no fee basis. Now I am not too familiar with this guy but based on what I have read he comes acroos as a typical far right. Perhaps those that are familiar with him can shed more light on this story and his background. He says he has a case and he will pursue to sue the home secretary, who disallowed him to enter UK because his views is deemed to escalate tension. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...anned-list.html

Give it another 2 years they will make a case for the poor victim and he will be forgotten! btw isn't there supposed to be a procedure in using taser guns?

So let me get this straight someone here dies who clearly was not part of the protest. He is attacked by a police officer who had not been wearing his batch and is believed to have been involved on similar incidents on the same day still under investigation and you see a funny side to this story? I mean in all seriousness how low can one get in defending authorities that are trying to get away with cover up?

There generally seems to be problems in the way the police handles these situations. I can understand thatit's G20S and they are supposed to be doing their jobs. But it seems some of them are no less than a bunch of thugs who are just there to aggravate the situation. Furthermore, in Britain there is a problem with the police structure as it is institutionally racist. Steven Lawrence case is a clear example and it's about time something is done.

The police officer U41 is now apparently facing manslaughter charges for hitting Ian Tomlinson who was merely watching the protest. Just seen the footage, which the IPCC tried the stop C4 to show the footage. Just a sick twisted individuals who thinks he can take the law in his own hand. I hope he gets a long prison sentence and they kick individuals like him out of the force. It's is a disgrace!

I never said Ian Tomlinson died becasue of heart attack! But have to say that I agree full heartedly there has been a cover up, which is why this case has been under the scrutiny. Nevertheless, I still believe the police did act inapporpriately in dealing with protesters and it is about time there is a shake up in the structure.

Your argument is not valid in this case! Even the spokesperson on behalf of the metropolitan police testifed yesterday that inappropriate force was used in dealing with the protesters during the G20 summit in London after seeing the evidence. The case of Ian Tolminson the newspaper vendor or the city employee who got caught in between and had a severe heart attack are just a few cases that are under further investigation. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8011092.stm