dub

how are canada and united states, at the present time, violating the native population's human rights? are they apartheid states?

that's because we don't have anyone coming in here trying to justify those actions. if anyone did, i'd speak against them. also, our present federal government has gone against canada's tradition of condemning those who violate international law, and they've failed to condemn israel for doing so. i don't see stephen harper condoning other violations around the world.

by not responding to my previous post to you, i'm assuming you've learned something. as for south africa. it's interesting you mentioned it. it's a very good comparison. south africa was an apartheid state, much like israel is now. in fact, israel and south africa were both very close during that time. however, due to internal and external pressure, south africa is no longer violating international law. good to see justice prevailing. wouldn't you like to see justice prevailing again? perhaps you can tell me about nicaragua and brazil human rights violations that parallel israel's.

the grand mufti's position still does not explain or justify the illegal settlements. they're illegal and they should be, first, stopped from expanding and second, slowly dismantled and removed from the west bank. i wish you supported international law. the very law that created the state of israel.

which christian nation has created an apartheid state? which christian nation is taking away basic human rights from its native people? if you can name some, i will gladly condemn them.

the israeli army represents israel. the israeli army did not listen to its court and since the ruling, they've used civilians as human shields. so the use of the israeli army as a representative of israel is justified. you're trying to divert. we've gone from using civilians as human shields to the rest of the things you've listed. the reality is that muslim nations are not occupying other people and they're not using civilians as human shields. so your blanket statement about muslim nations is ignorant and does not prove anything. its not just the muslim nations who find the occupation illegal. even canada sees the settlements as illegal and finds violating international which includes using civilians as human shields, as wrong. this is not israel vs muslim nations. it's israel vs human rights. i don't think anyone here is excusing other nations for their wrong behaviour and violation of human rights law. i like to point out where someone has excused violation of international law and i will gladly join you in condemning it.

my apologies for calling you that dogonporch. i don't really think you're dumb.

hey listen wikipedia boy, i'm talking about right now. you dumb fuck. next time i'm in this thread i will probably think adding "you dumb fuck" was a tad bit too much.

you're not going to like the answer to that one dancing man. from amnesty international: “Our sources in Gaza report that Israeli soldiers have entered and taken up positions in a number of Palestinian homes, forcing families to stay in a ground floor room while they use the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position,” said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International’s Middle East and North Africa Programme. “This clearly increases the risk to the Palestinian families concerned and means they are effectively being used as human shields.” they acknowledge that both sides are doing it. well there you go! hamas and the israeli military are on equal grounds! Both Israeli soldiers and Palestinian gunmen are continuing to fire at each other from areas close to civilian homes, endangering their inhabitants. and then they bomb the civilians and use the same shrugging argument that you and other use for their justification: Israeli forces have bombed civilian homes and other buildings, arguing that they had been used as cover by gunmen firing at Israeli targets but uh oh, wait: although Palestinian fighters usually vacate the areas as soon as they have fired. SO?! the israeli army is not aware that they're leaving after shooting! “The Israeli army is well-aware that Palestinian gunmen usually leave the area after having fired and that any reprisal attack against these homes will in most cases cause harm to civilians -- not gunmen.” oh no. but wait... amnesty international is a terrorist organization which is clearly anti-semite and wants to push israel into the sea. did i cover it right?

the fact that the israeli army is not only requesting continue to use civilians as human shields says a lot about where the israeli military stands. they've not only shown a total disregard for international law, but they've also continued to break their own law by going against their own court just after the ruling and also during the recent gaza attack. can you cite the number of times muslim nations' soldiers used civilians as human shields? UAE? iran? saudi? egypt? indonesia? morocco? can you cite muslim nations occupying another country? syria? saudi? qatar? iraq? a few muslim nations are pretty crappy when it comes to human rights, but israel seems to be doing worse than they are. are you going to continue to try to justify and make excuses for israel? how low can you sink?

how does the questionable actions by the grand mufti have ANYTHING to do with the illegal israeli settlements that continues to expand? why don't you surprise this board and for once, stop trying to justify everything israel does.

i'm curious, wtf you are going on about? israel is building more illegal settlements. one of the biggest reasons the occupied people are pissy about israel. you don't seem to have a problem with the settlements and in fact try to justify them.

how did you go from illegal settlements to the grand mufti? diversion much?

that's right dogonporch, israel is the victim here. self defense is legitimate, but how legitimate it is if i get inside someone's house and i self defense against the owner who tries to punch me because i wont let him pass through the door to get into his garage? even if we know that the house owner is a jerk or not?

looks like you have it all justified in your head. i'm sure the nazis, milosovic, saddam and osama use the same argument. we've set rules. you want to shit on them and justify shitting on them, that's your decision.

from 2005, but it shows the hypocrisy and the double speak used by israel. The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said. Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz is prepared to make a personal appearance in court to defend the practice, ministry officials added. BBC News

i like you rue. you're quite the philosopher. i just wish you were open and honest about how you feel about the wrong doings by your "team".

this is why we've created rules and moral standards for ourselves. this is why we have the geneva convention and rules of war. this is why we have human rights. you break these rules or try to justify breaking these rules, you're supporting unjust behaviour.

c'mon rue. i like you but you're being very unreasonable with this argument. if i walked into your home and declared it my home, is it right or wrong? who does the home belong to? where are you going to go? borders were drawn when israel was created. in 1967, another border was drawn, giving even more land to israel, yet israel continues to annex more land by expanding the settlements. as according to the rules we've created for ourselves, israel's annexation of land is illegal. that is absolute. the only for any progress to happen here is for jews and palestinians to acknowledge and condemn the wrong doings being done by their own people. meaning that the palestinians should condemn and not try to justify any type of attacks in israel and you should condemn and not try to justify the settlements and the brutal occupation.

when was the last time there was a suicide attack inside israel? settlements have been happening for well over 40 years.. suicide attacks are a bit over 10 years old. people have to accept that israel does not want a just peace because it is controlled by right wing fanatics who still see a vision of a "greater israel".

even though the israeli government has always supported settlement expansion, the majority of israelis are actually against the settlements. however, what i found interesting during israel's attack on gaza was the overwhelming number of israelis who supported the slaughter while the rest of the world did not. a friend of mine who lived in israel for a few years in the 90's and has family living there, tried to explain the reason for this. he mentioned that it mostly had to do with the mainstream media in israel which continues to be a mouthpiece for the israeli government. the government issued a ban on media from covering the story inside gaza so all the media could rely on was information released by the military while the pundits and zionists kept pushing the victim button.

it's odd not seeing the zionist sympathizers coming in here and try to justify this.

bush_cheney... for a gun slinging cowboy, i'm surprised you support a guy who dodged the draft and another guy who went snorting coke instead of doing his military duties. are you an armchair cowboy?

i'm sure this will make israel far more secure than before. why else would such a peaceloving and fairminded nation do such a thing?

who here doesn't want to acknowledge the smelly elephant in the room? this is why israel doesn't want peace and by israel, i mean the right wing, fascist and racist israelis who control the government. they know that any peace deal will inevitably include agreeing to no more settlements and no more land, even giving back a chunk of what they've already stolen.