Wild Bill

Not that it makes any difference but I have been practicing my own "boycott" of purchases for some years now. Mostly against countries like China, who I do not respect for their abuse of the environment and of human rights but also against products from Europe! I added Europe to the list years ago when they banned Canadian seal products. I thought this was very hypocritical, considering how Spain practised bullfighting, as well as the popularity of dog and cock fighting. Even more blatant, they have no problem with seals killed in Norway! They seem to use Canada as a convenient whipping boy to drum up "green" support among their own voters. Politicians are the same everywhere, I guess. That being said, of course European countries have the right to buy from whomever they wish. That's freedom! I just feel that it works both ways. I too have the right to choose which suppliers of products or services I respect. As I've posted before, I am not such a drama queen that I think I'm making a difference but once in a while I've sparked someone else to do the same, or bumped into someone in the supermarket who also reads the labels to see the country of origin. Some memes start to spread slowly but can start to ramp up surprisingly quickly if they begin to catch on. So I find it encouraging that our government is finally talking about taking a stand as well! We always seem to let other countries do whatever they want to us with trade, rarely retaliating. At this moment we are putting the ink to a Free Trade agreement with the EU. Although the CPC are carefully treating this agreement as separate from the oil sands issue I would support tying them together! If the EU puts us on a list, then we also should put them on OUR list of countries banned as customers! Presently we don't sell any oil to the EU anyway but in an energy hungry world that could change in the future. At that time, I feel that politicians in the EU should find out that there are consequences to their actions! Screw the Europeans, I say! And the horses they rode in on!

You know, I'm always surprised that so many people ignore the simplest explanations. Isn't it more likely that the hawks just don't believe the doves? Bud opens up with a couple of experts who believe one side of the argument. He appears to take their views as gospel, as facts of the universe that can't be denied. By his lights, if you disagree you simply must be wrong! This is more of a religious than a logical argument. There are other experts who disagree. More than that, a country like Israel has no choice but to take threats seriously, since they simply cannot afford to make a mistake and lose. Too much blood is at stake. If Bud and his experts are wrong, they themselves will not suffer in the slightest! They have no skin in the game, as it were.

There's still something that confuses me, Dr. Dre. If I assume you're right and that allowing your currency to devalue is a great way to reduce your foreign debt load, wouldn't that mean that whoever loaned you the money takes the hit? If that's true, why on earth would anyone lend that country any MORE money? Or are you saying that the money lenders don't mind at all? If that's the case, then what do these credit ratings given to countries, states and provinces really mean?

At least we got the G20 summit out of it! Perhaps it didn't have to be Tony's riding which got beautified but SOME riding SOMEWHERE would have needed to be beautified and hold the summit! What did Canadians get from AdScam? Sweet Fanny Apples! There is still no comparison!

You either have no capacity for logic or you are deliberately dodging the issue, or both! If you equate misspending of our taxes on projects that are still PROJECTS FOR THE CANADIAN PEOPLE with directly stealing hundreds of millions of dollars of our taxes and spending it on THE LIBERAL PARTY ITSELF then there's simply no point in talking to you at all. It's like arguing with a Jehovah's Witness!

What's your yardstick? Number of scandals? Cleavage? Me, I only care about our money! The Liberals scammed us out of possibly hundreds of millions of our tax money for their own ends to get elected in Quebec. After watching the Gomery trials, it was obvious that only a small portion could be proven there was something the size of an iceberg below the water! I don't know if ANY politicians will ever be able to play in the same league as the Liberals if your yardstick is theft of our money!

Cheaper? That's always the most important factor for a DIY'r! Aluminum may be cheaper but of course, you can't solder it like copper. So that thermal conductivity to the fins will always be a problem unless you have access to an aluminum welder or something. Kudos to you for what you're doing, my good Dr. Dre! That's the sort of thing I respect and sadly, is getting more and more rare these days. Have you looked at car radiators? I have a small radiator I keep on my bench designed as an extra add-on for a car transmission. Surely they would be cheap from an auto wreckers! They may not be an optimum design but sometimes if something is cheaper you can just use an extra one or two. I've no direct experience to share with you - just passing on an idea.

Well, I guess it depends upon what you call right wing, or left wing. Over the years the centre seems to have drifted, at least for some. That being said, you're right that if there is only one "right wing" party you aren't going to lose votes from that demographic. Still, that is only true as long as that kind of situation lasts. Back in Mulroney's day, the PCs of that time had exactly the same attitude. They even had a term for it - "disenfranchised conservative", meaning a conservative voter that didn't really like their party but had no other alternative for his vote. That kind of attitude had worked for generations in politics but times had changed. It wasn't that long after all the social changes of the 60's and early 70's. People were demanding more participation in the political process and were no longer as willing to just put their faith in a party and let it do whatever it wanted to do. As I said, the system had been working until enough people got frustrated to the point of forming their own alternative party. At that point, they garnered support faster than a club posting a "Free Beer!" sign! Reform took literally millions of voters away from the PCs, including almost all of their campaign riding "grunt" workers, who had always did all the work of raising money, manning phones and banging up election signs but were summarily blown away whenever they wanted to be included on any policy or leadership decisions. If you force people to support you by limiting their choices sooner or later they will figure out what you've done. At that point, they may not be able to do anything about it but they will slowly get more and more resentful. If someone comes along with another choice they will steal that support away from you in the twinkling of an eye! It happened before. It can happen again. Harper seems to have forgotten that. Hudak had best remember the example!

Really? I was an active Reformer practically from the start, I probably have one of the first membership cards issued to someone in Ontario. I served a couple of terms as a riding Director and was involved in policy workshops. I was VERY familiar with the Reform/Alliance "playbook"! That being said, I just don't see any truth in your premise! Could you point out anything specific? Or do you just have some "straw man" cartoon impressions of the Ontario PCs and for what Reform officially stood? I will admit that when a campaign was brewing the Ontario PCs made a few Reform-style noises but nothing specific that I heard - nothing clearly stated to which they could be held. From my perspective, ever since the huge majorities of Mike Harris the Ontario PCs have tried to play it both ways. The party leadership is mostly the old Red Tory gang but they like to wear a more rightwing jersey on occasion to try to attract the votes from that demographic. Without actually having to deliver on any such promises, of course! I've come to believe that the voters of Ontario are so weary of poor government that they are starting to go a bit "loopy". Isn't one definition of insanity is doing the same thing that doesn't work, again and again? The papers are full of stories of massive Liberal budget cuts coming, far deeper than anything ever done by Harris. We have Orgne scandals, money wasted on wind turbine projects being started, shut down and now in litigation from the stranded companies who had committed to build them. To be fair, the Tories keep running VERY bad campaigns! Hudak and his bunch remind me of a high school student council. Actually, that's not fair to many student councils! Anyhow, I would appreciate it if you could back up your premise. Frankly, it looks to me as if you are just some rightwing "basher" who pulled that premise out of your butt! I'm a "utilitarian". I don't care so much as to where an idea comes from as to whether or not it works and/or has a good track record. If it doesn't, to me it's just crap, wherever it originated! Still, I'm always willing to be shown. Go ahead! Show me!

Dr. Dre, if surrendering financial control to the EU was such a bad thing, why did countries like Germany do so much better?

Cap, it doesn't matter who makes the panels! Neither does the price! They could be free and they still would be a financial loss. The installation, maintenance and the necessity for making backup power available for when the sun isn't shining are what makes photovoltaics a "money pit". That being said, the Germans have built traditional, large central generating stations. That is much of the problem. If the money had been put into smaller scale, individual solutions things might have worked better. Any tech would know this. Unfortunately, techs are rarely involved in the decisions about these things, except as salespeople to make a great deal of money by selling the products and services to the governments. The politicians make the decisions and they are as qualified as an autoshop teacher to fix your car cheaply and quickly, that is to say, not very!

Dr. Dre, in theory I actually agree with you! However, it's never going to happen! The problem is political. The average Greek has no understanding of economics and doesn't care! If his wages fall he will not patiently wait to see if prices fall along with them over some months or a few years. He will riot right then, that very day! The first election that comes along, he will also vote against all the incumbent politicians who did the proper thing, rather than promise pie in the sky and when it doesn't happen put all the blame on foreign banks! I don't mean to be rude but if someone were to stand on a Greek street corner and shout out your beliefs and suggestions he would probably not make it home alive! The Greek politicians are in the worst possible position. They know that they must spruce up their act or the bailout money will stop dead in its tracks. They know that the temporary hurt from such action will cause mass rioting, regardless of being best for their country in the long term. Their best hope is to do what they have to and try to keep finding ways to blame outside forces.

Man, you just don't seem to understand cause and effect! We need our own program, built in Canada? We could never afford it! This isn't 1939 where almost any country can set up a factory to make Lee-Enfield rifles! No, that ship has sailed long ago. Modern equipment needs a large infrastructure to produce weapons and materiel. How would you like your taxes tripled to pay for it? We no longer have such infrastructure and would have to produce it from scratch! We are lucky that we will be using engineering blueprints developed by our NATO allies to build our own ships. We no longer could afford to design things ourselves. Engineers and their labs don't come for free and you can't erect a useful new engineering institute in a weekend. As for aircraft, Diefenbaker killed that industry when he axed the Arrow. What you are really saying is not that we should develop our own. In the real world, if we did it your way we would have very little at all! As for the rest of your argument, we will just have to agree to disagree. It is obvious that you don't support a Canadian role as a peacekeeper, for your arguments would mean that we had no effective armament to enforce any peace! You speak only of our own defence. That would mean no ability to help defend others. Reading your words gives me mental pictures of Ruanda massacres everywhere, forever! That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Since I don't share it we have little to talk about.

Well, sounds good at first glance Dr. Dre but what would happen after they liquidated their debt? It's not likely that they could get back on their feet without MORE credit! Who would give it to them after they stiffed all their previous lenders? The situation would be very much the same as if you or I went bankrupt and couldn't pay all our debts and credit cards. It would be years before we would get any more credit. How would Greece survive in the meantime? Something tells me they wouldn't get their economy back on its feet by the following weekend. People have to eat while the process goes on!

This has got to be the most ridiculous thread I have seen in a long while, AW! I must apologize for some of my Canadian brethren. They seem to believe that we must both wake up every morning with thoughts of love for each other. When we meet in airports we should have huge and spontaneous group hugs! That's just not real life! We all have enough on our plate every day just trying to cope with the demands of life to spend much time worrying about how much our countries love each other. Most of the time, it's just not relevant to our daily lives! However, on those occasions when it IS relevant, both peoples have shown repeatedly throughout our shared history the respect and affection we have for each other. In two World Wars, we fought together. America supplied more than enough men and materiel to tip the balance. Canadian corvettes and frigates guarded American convoys from U-boats. Later, during the 9/1/11 crisis, the ordinary citizens of Gander, Newfoundland took stranded American people into their homes, providing beds, food, showers and laundry facilities for those who's planes had been grounded during that emergency. No one cared about "love-in" polls at those times. Or tallied the economic factors. We simply pulled together with like-minded people whose values we shared and respected. That is essentially all that's involved. That is also more than enough to matter!

Why should they? Obviously, the old PC people are in control. There's little or nothing the Reform supporters can do! The new party's structure is NOT based on that of the Reform Party! It is the same as the old PC Party from the days of Mulroney and before. The party brass run everything and are answerable only in theory to the party membership. I supposed they could try to totally split and destroy the party. I'm sure that would please you, punked and Olpfan1 very much! It would mean that the opposition parties would have a much easier chance to take over. You are asking the Reform wing, such as what remains, to accept a cure worse than the disease!

So please, please, please KEEP Celine Dion!

I'm surprised you don't see the flaw in your argument. We went through that before, when the Liberals had gutted our military so severely. On the world stage, Canada was often a laughingstock! We were looked upon as deadbeats, who sponged off America. To many countries, that made us America's stooge, since we were dependent on them. When we were called upon to help in UN peacekeeping operations, we were the guys who sent the supply ship - the canteen, in other words. Sure, we sent our F-18s to Kosovo, but the electronics and IFF equipment on them were so obsolete that our communications were not secure from the enemy and our planes could not be reliably identified as friendly. They could have been shot down by friendly fire. So we were relegated to the "housekeeping" missions, in non-critical roles. The "big boys" did the real fighting. Make no mistake about it, the perception of Canada as no longer an influential player on the world stage was very strong and we are only slowly rebuilding it now. Sure, we are influential for our food shipments to poor nations but support from Bangladesh is not the same as sitting on the Security Council. Why do you think we are not on the Security Council now? Some like to say its because we've offended some Islamic fundamentalist nations by being too close to America. Well, if America looks after our defence what are they supposed to think? However, there's an easier explanation. We are just too small and weak for anyone to care! Apparently, you would have us work to become even more so. Somehow, I don't think that will work out quite like you think.

Scribb, it's nice that the Tories are amenable for amendments but wouldn't it have made more sense if Vic's Bill was a bit more refined in the first place? This Bill reminds me of my days working for Westinghouse in the 80's. It was a 'Dilbert' atmosphere, where management insisted on making even the most trivial decisions but were totally ignorant of the factors involved. They allowed only 2 of those new-fangled fax machines, one for management and one for the other 200 office workers. Like with their teletype, they had an employee dedicated to taking the fax msgs off the machine and delivering them to the addressed party. This Bill's attempts to take some control over the Internet reminds me of that sort of thinking in two ways. One is that whoever wrote the Bill really didn't understand how the Internet actually works and the other is that the author was likely Vic himself! I say it again and again, there was no need for this gaffe to happen. Vic was left on his own and he turned out something inept that has his party trying to put out the fire. If not sacked, he should be given a VERY short leash in future!

I've considered spoiling my ballot but that sort of thing always seemed to be more of a drama and an ego thing. After all, what possible difference would my one spoiled ballot make? Would anyone care that I, Wild Bill, spoiled my ballot because I didn't like the choices? Frankly, I'm not so stuffed up about myself to ever do such a thing! No, I'll continue as I have, accepting that in a real world there are rarely any perfect choices and that those choices are crafted to appeal to large numbers of my fellow citizens and not just ME! I will endeavor every election to pick the best of a bad bunch, trusting that at least baby steps in a positive direction are better than giant leaps down a negative path.

Only by default. As I've said many times, I don't vote for any of the others because to my values they stink more than Harper's party! Just because I don't like the CPC is no reason for me to embrace the NDP or the Liberals. Or the Greens. I vote for who I feel is the least of all evils. I decided what is evil by using my head, NOT the Force!

Arm pit? You chose a much kinder example than I would have...

You won't get an answer, Smallc. Some folks need reasons to believe something and some don't! "Use the Force, Luke! Ignore that targeting computer that cost billions to develop and barrels of skull sweat to figure out how to make it! Just go with your feelings!" Always FAR easier to feel than to think!

Obviously Argus, you have a childlike faith that the police will always do the right thing, would never abuse their position or use the Law as a tool against the suspected until and unless they were proven innocent. This Bill would hurt someone because you are giving too much power into the hands of those who are not always perfect in how they wield it! There are legions of stories of people who are abused at the hands of police! Not all of course but hey, a small percentage can do a great deal of damage when given powerful tools, as this Bill is trying to do! I'm still not comfortable with giving harsher mandatory sentences to those growing more than 6 pot plants than to those caught practicing pedophilia! I would have expected such silliness more from the opposition parties, as we saw when the Liberals introduced their gun registry and had a harsher sentence for someone not registering than for someone using a gun to rob a variety store. Here in Hamilton a young black man coming home off the GO bus was arrested, held in jail for days, and treated roughly as a burglary suspect. The witness identification of the robber was a man nowhere near his height and white, not black! He was stonewalled when he tried to lodge a complaint. To his credit, he eventually had his day but it was a hard row for him to hoe to achieve it! If you want to google the case, his name is Michael Dixon. You can't give such powerful tools to those who are chosen and trained more for their proficiency with force than for their understanding of human rights. There are also always pressures for cops to get their man, ANY man! Ask David Milgaard. I don't mean to be insulting Angus but sometimes you make me think you live in Mayberry, with Andy, Barney and Opie!

You know Scribb, this whole issue was as predictable as dawn's light! I'm starting to wonder if there's more to it. Vic is the front man and he's the one who caused all the blowback. Perhaps he was given enough rope? Maybe Harper needed an excuse to clip his wings and that of the social conservatives in the party who support Vic's kind of thinking. Or am I reading too much into it? Harper has always been pretty sharp. I can't believe he didn't see the backlash coming...