Wild Bill

No! The difference is patently obvious.

punked, you completely missed my point! You really should read the thread before you make such statements! Who cares if they reveal their info? Vic is a politician! Bury him in his own dirt, I say! The issue is that Anonymous is using it as blackmail to get the government to withdraw the Bill and have Vic resign! Plus a few more demands of the same sort. This is what disgusts me! Who appointed Anonymous as our head of government? When do I get to vote for any of them? What happens when the next issue is something that perhaps some of today's supporters don't agree with at that time? I've made my position clear in earlier posts. Some seem to support Anonymous as a sort of benevolent dictator that as far as Vic and his crime Bill are concerned is on their side so they see nothing wrong with what they are doing. As I said, if the shoe is on the other foot with the next issue it would be interesting to see how today's supporters handle it! Talk about your situational ethics! Or rather, a total lack of ethics, replaced by blind partisanship! Again, if they want to hang Vic I might buy the rope! It's just as a libertarian when some vigilante political group wants to use blackmail for their own political ends I truly start to fear for my country! Anonymous should just reveal everything they have on Vic! Or any other politician, for that matter. I would hope they would not be partisan about it but after this I won't hold my breath.

Why should they out her name? Why harm her? How is her name even remotely relevant to the issue, except as a tool for blackmail?

So therefore anything goes as far as forcing them to do what YOU want? Legalities and the majority will of the voters be damned? It's all about what YOU think and who YOU like? I now believe that you have absolutely no concept of democracy at all! To you, because you don't like the Harper government you seem to see nothing wrong with blackmail! You seem blissfully blind to the collateral consequences! I've already stated my distaste for Vic many times and my objections to his Bill as well. That doesn't mean I would destroy Canadian democracy to get what I want! Believe it or not, I believe in democracy for everyone, including YOU! However, it is perfectly obvious to anyone trying to follow your arguments that you do not believe the same for your fellow citizens. You only think it should apply to those who agree with you! You remind me of a baby with a machine gun! You should really think a lot deeper on such issues!

I didn't see your reply until after I posted, Jack. I'm relieved to see that you HAVE thought it through! I don't think Vic will get any sympathy. Who has sympathy for a politician? No, it's the political power that scares the daylights out of me! That's always the problem with the righteous! If they think it important enough, they have no problem with cutting off SOMEONE ELSE'S arm!

More than outraged, Jack! It's just that I don't think you've really thought this all the way through! It won't end with Vic! And next time, it might be YOUR ox that's gored! In effect, you're accepting a fascist style dictator in your zeal to deal with a bad Bill. Once you give such the reins, that dictator doesn't have to listen to YOU anymore! I agree that this Bill should be scrapped but not THIS way! It is BECAUSE I am a Libertarian that I want no part of any group of blackmailers like Anonymous!

Perhaps they are not originating policies but they are certainly claiming the power of veto! "Anonymous demands the immediate resignation of Vic Toews, the scrapping of Bills C-30 and C-11 in their entirety, and a formal apology to the people of Canada for referring to them as supporters of pedophilia, and more importantly, for attempting to infringe on their most basic civil rights." Seems pretty clear to me! Are we both speaking English here, olpfan1? I understand how some like Jack feel a sense of urgency. So do I! I have no use or respect for Vic's Bill either but if Anonymous wins this one then we will have LOST our democratic rights! It will no longer be our democratically elected Parliament that is supreme. It will be Anonymous! Who will be their next target? Who will decide what stand they will take on any particular issue? Someone like you or Jack might be very happy for them to beat Vic this time. What will you think if next time Anonymous is on the OTHER side of an issue you cherish? For that is the crux of the problem with a vigilante group like Anonymous! If even the majority of citizens disagree with them on any particular issue, as far as Anonymous is concerned that's just too doggone bad! They will do as ANONYMOUS sees fit, NOT as you, I or any other citizens do!

We do it at the ballot box, Jack! If there's not enough votes to make a change then the majority of people get what they want! If we allow a minority to get its way through blackmail then we might as well scrap all elections and any pretense of majority democracy. We will simply be governed by a powerful group of elites. There really isn't any other way it could work! I would much rather grit my teeth and put up with a government I despised until such time as an election would throw them out then use blackmail to get that government to do as I say! I'm used to just gritting my teeth! I despised the entire Chretien era! That being said, before I would sanction letting a vigilante group like Anonymous to control my government I would seriously think about getting a gun and being a vigilante myself! I don't want my children growing up in a Canada run by the likes of Anonymous! At least I can hope that someone like Vic gets voted out!

You may be right, Shady. This might be a case of a cure worse than the disease! What we are witnessing here is blackmail,pure and simple. True, Vic seems a despicable sort but hey, he IS a politician! At least he was elected! No one elected Anonymous! Their arrogance is staggering! I could respect them if they simply wanted to blow the whistle on corruption and hypocrisy. If they have dirt on Vic or any other politician, then just publish it! No, where Anonymous has gone too far is to use dirt as a blackmail lever. In effect, they want to control our elected parliament with their threats, to achieve THEIR ends! Now, in this particular case, getting Vic's Bill killed is something I would agree with but NOT because Anonymous might have some power! I never elected anyone in Anonymous and have absolutely no input into their policies. Next time they might do something I DON'T agree with! What then? Can I vote them out? This is the problem with any vigilantes. As I said, I would far rather have Anonymous just dump any and all dirt they have on any politicians of any party out into the open air. By using blackmail, they have put themselves above the law of the land. To me, they are no different in character than the man they are attacking!

I have seen this said so many times before, that an attack on Iran would solidify support amongst its people. How does anyone know this? Is it not just an opinion? Wouldn't it be more likely that an underground "Arab Spring" movement might seize the opportunity to oust the mullahs? Where is the proof of this statement? HOW could anyone prove this statement unless tested in reality?

There are dillholes in all parties! Your friend should have reported that one! Or better yet, have told a Toronto Star reporter! Not only would the media have punished this candidate but his own party would have been obliged to punish him! It would've looked good on him but sadly, another one in some other party would've appeared to take his place. Politicians and lawyers...

Sorry, but I have heard too many things from Ahmadinejad that are absolutely loopy to have any faith in the rationality of Iran's leadership. Besides, it doesn't matter what you or I think. It matters what Israel thinks! When Israel looks at Iran it sees David Pearl! It's not as if Iran has done much lately to try to make Israel feel more secure. I have a great deal of respect for the Iranian people, just none for any form of religious government, anywhere. My fervent hope is for the young people in Iran to throw their government out!

And yet some wonder why there's so much distrust about handing them even more unchecked powers, a la Vic Toew's Bill.

Yes GH, it IS possible for Bud to be right! However, he would be right in the fashion that Neville Chamberlain could have been right. Or how unilateral disarmament might have worked if America had done so during the Cold War. Hitler might NOT have waged war! The USSR might well have decided not to be aggressive! The difference is that when such approaches are wrong they are always FAR bloodier! Nobody picks on the BIG kid, or the one with a baseball bat! It's always the one who seems too weak to defend himself. What's more, things still come down to the cold hard fact that if people like Bud are wrong it is Israel who pays the price, NOT them! You can suggest anything when you have no skin in the game yourself!

Why should he hide, CC? He has a solid majority and years before the next election! There's a lot of criticism from some groups, but those are mostly people who would never vote for him anyway! Who cares what they think? We've heard such noises after every election in Canada's history! I think many of his critics are overplaying their hand. They are starting to sound shrill and irrational, even when Harper is deserving of criticism! When they start to make mountains out of molehills and make big cases out of things that Joe Average couldn't care less about they start to look and sound like the Loony Left of 1980's Britain. That is a VERY dumb thing to do politically! Times have changed and we have an older voting demographic. Being old doesn't make you any more or less right in your political choices but it DOES make you less impressed with shouting and "rah rah"! An older voter likes to back what seems to make sense, even if he's wrong about it. Harper fits that model. The Occupy movement does not! The Left runs a very real risk of making themselves look like a bunch of braying adolescents, noisily sounding fire and fury but signifying nothing, as the old poem goes. This is not to say that the Left is always wrong, just that their presentation and image can hurt their cause rather than help. Sadly for the NDP, they show no signs of getting a leader as down to earth and practical as Jack. At least, not so far. As for the Liberals, they desperately need another Chretien! Alas, it looks like they will end up with another Dion or worse yet, a Hedy Fry clone! Harper has successfully turned the tables! It's not that he's a great choice but that he has no effective competition! That's what kept Chretien in power all those years. Such situations are NOT good for Canada!

Actually, it was all done in a studio on Earth in Area 51...

There's more than enough blame to go around, Argus. What about the teachers? Brain dead, obviously.

Dick Cheney is NOT God! Don't be sacrilegious! B B King is God!

You miss the point! Essentially, assuming many if not most of the critics here were alive at that time, the fact that they never complained about the situation when the Liberals were in power is proof that in truth they approved of it! In other words, if their guy does it it's ok! It's only bad if the OTHER guy does it! THAT"S why so many "conservatives" (actually, not really just conservatives - just people who disagree with YOU!) keep bringing it up! They're highlighting the hypocrisy.

You would be the second! What's more, you would likely have absolutely no idea why we are laughing at you!

If he did, you would be one of the first to cry that he's bribing voters!

Hey, I'm not impressed with Obama's politics but after watching him on TV singing "Sweet Home Chicago" with B B King (who is GOD!) and many other of my blues heroes, I have found a great respect and actual liking for him as a man! Not a bad voice, either!

As I had said, times change in an energy hungry world. The EU politicians seem to always use Canada to score some cheap points with their "green voters". I support placing a reciprocal ban so that if a decade or two from now if the EU asks for bitumen we refuse! Again, as I had said, I just like politicians to get reminded that there are consequences to their actions. As the old saying goes, "Gas, grass or ass, nobody rides for free!"

Well, that's the OFFICIAL line, Waldo! I won't dispute that. Still, whenever you see posters held by protesters in Europe, you never see "Stop Poland!" on them! It's always "Canada Slaughters Baby Seals!" and now "Say NO! To Dirty Canadian Oil!" I repeat - screw their horses too!

Now Kimmy! Don't be so right wing and hawkish! You could get us into a war! It's got nothing to do with us! The USA has to protect us so we don't need any military of our own. Syria is not a threat to Canada. We should spend our military budget on more canoe museums in Shawinigan! Let those children die! Let their girls grow up to be uneducated slaves and their boys to become child soldiers! We should just let them all die! The hawks in this country just want a war for the sheer joy of it!