Wild Bill

Hmmm...an "exaggeration", you say? That implies there IS something at the root of it!

Hey GH, YOU were the one who said the Iranian people don't want war, as if what they want matters. Then YOU said as much that OUR leaders were crazy! Now you attack our leaders again! News flash! Our leaders are not building atom bombs! Our leaders have not threatened to wipe another country off the face of the Earth! I just can't see the logic in your argument at all.

Hudak is trying to appear to be all things to all people. In actuality he has committed to very little. Brown suit and shoes, beige tie! Easy listening - bore all folks equally! The Ned Flanders of Ontario politics.

That's what i thought. You would want him to maintain his integrity and get shuffled out of office, giving your guy a chance. You really should read Machiavelli. He points out that the first duty of the Prince is to maintain power, for otherwise he can do nothing. When Harper made his Senate pledge he might have been sincere, you know! Perhaps it was later when he became Prime Minister that he found he couldn't make it happen. One can be sincere but wrong. Is that a sin? Besides, if you are saying that he truly made Senate Reform such a big deal then you must also admit that it is a pretty popular idea, since he got voted in! By any chance, does this mean you agreed with him about the Senate? Perhaps you have some thoughts to share as to how reform could be practically accomplished, without just getting booted out of office, to be the useless Opposition Party.

The Iranian leaders don't give a damn about what the Iranian people feel! So how are the Iranian people relevant?

Ah! I get it! I had the wrong context. I was thinking it was about the by-elections in Ontario. I should have realized it encompassed the federal government and virtually anything that a left wing voter might disagree with...

That's the problem, Cpl. The French do not recognize that there are many voices in the rest of Canada. To them, there is French Canada and Anglo Canada. They don't recognize Canadians as outside of Quebec as anything but English, no matter if they came from Britain, Bangladesh or any country in between. They see things as 50-50. There is French and there is English. They don't see Canada as a collection of equal provinces. To them, equality means they get half, because...they're French!

Well, to paraphrase Machiavelli, if he had done what you suggest he would not be in power now. Did you seriously expect him to commit political suicide?

Hey, as I said! If Hudak wasn't so damned boring...!

Ah Topaz, maybe I'm just getting old but what the hell has that to do with the opening post?

Baird did not say that Iran was the biggest threat to Canada's security. He said "global peace and security". Of course, if you don't give a damn about the rest of the world or people who might get nuked then I guess that's a valid opinion. A very cold, cruel and callous opinion but you would be entitled to it, nonetheless.

I don't understand, Topaz. Was he supposed to name Liberals and NDP? Fill the vacancies with Opposition guys, like the Liberals always did? :lol:

CC, back when Harper was ruling minority governments there were posts after posts after posts here in MLW claiming that Harper did not truly win his mandate! Convoluted mathematical formulae littered our screens purportedly showing that the majority of voters were against him, mostly by claiming that all who didn't vote would have been guaranteed to vote for one of the Opposition parties. Only a majority of not just the popular vote but a clear majority of the POSSIBLE vote would have satisfied Harper's critics! I agree with you. The PQ won. Still, I think a lot of people should concede that Quebecers are still split on the issue and that Marois has no mandate for separation. Otherwise they would have to admit to being hypocrites.

Well, one thing we have done is to put such constraints on pesticides that it is a given any product an ordinary citizen is allowed to buy will NOT work worth a damn! Frankly, the alternatives we have been left with SUCK! They are a waste of money! Naturally, this doesn't bother anyone who lives in a student dorm but rest assured, if someday they buy a house they will find this out very quickly. Even in a dorm, if they are unfortunate enough to encounter bed bugs they are doomed! The DIY solutions are gone and only placebos are left. The only choice is to hire very expensive professionals for treatments that all too often are only temporary.

As I said, if they took it they would deserve it! Just shows the result of hard work! It also shows the lack of hard work. I hate to say it but the Ontario PC Party seems stodgy and complacent. I don't know if it is Hudak or his handlers but something is very seriously wrong with the PCs. For the last couple of elections they have looked so boring they have reminded me of that scene in the movie Airplane! where the passenger sitting beside the lead character gets so bored listening he hangs himself so he won't have to keep hearing it! It is not enough to depend on your rival pissing people off. You also have to inspire them yourself! That is why we are seeing such an Orange surge in traditional PC ridings. People are starting to forget the reasons why they ever voted for the PCs! Even in the MSM all the attention seems to go to Ms Horvath and not Mr. Hudak. I think the PCs are so worried about their leader making a mistake they have made his image as "hip" as polka music! If they don't turn this around, they are going to be in Opposition for a long, long, time.

We went round and round with Benz some months ago on this issue. I told him then but he seems to have forgotten that to ROC, his arguments just scream racism! He doesn't want to believe this, I guess. Who would? And I'm sure he doesn't think of himself as a racist. Still, that doesn't change the fact that the separatiste philosophy looks that way to Canadians outside of Quebec. He is not going to change that by scolding us. The perception is what it is and in politics, perception is reality. THIS perception influences the way ROC regards the separatistes and thus would also influence any negotiation with them! The sad thing is that the separatistes not only do not see this negative perception of them in ROC, they have no idea of how this would affect any terms worked out between Canada and a separate Quebec. So things will happen as they will and it will not be until and unless Quebec chooses to leave that it will discover how their negotiating rivals regard them. To TROC, it will be a bit like negotiating with the KKK. Don't believe me? Just ask Parizeau. Get him to repeat his words about the rich and the ethnics.

It would be simpler to cut off the flow of money and electricity into the reserve. They have not been self-sufficient for generations. You are either within Canada or not. No one should be allowed to play both ends against the middle.

Hey, I took Arts at McMaster and it worked just fine for me!

TROC doesn't have to split Quebec. Its own people will do it for you! The natives have made it quite clear they are not interested in belonging to a separate Quebec. They think Quebec will still repeat its actions that triggered the Oka protest. They are probably right! The Eastern Townships have their own feelings on the matter. Also Hull, where a lot of government workers would all lose their jobs. We can't have foreigners working for the government in Ottawa. So Quebec would have to deal with its own people if it were to separate. If a referendum had a very large majority in favour of leaving the job would be much easier but if it were a close vote it would be a very difficult problem indeed. Surely a new government of an independent Quebec would not want to start off as a dictatorship. Frankly, if they did I would expect violence. No, TROC would simply sit back, watch, and cut off the money! No EI, no pensions, no equalization - no nothing. Exactly as Pierre Trudeau told the Quebec people during a previous referendum. Like it or not, Quebec would have to deal with government workers who lost their jobs and communities near the border that did not want to be part of any separation. It would have to handle its own finances and what's more, do it QUICKLY! Ordinary citizens are not able to wait! They have bills to pay and children to feed. Money talks and BS walks! Patriotism doesn't put food in the belly. It's easy to wave a flag, much harder to maintain an economy. Quebec has already lost a great many jobs as business left down the 401. What do you think will happen if there is a separation? Do you think the Royal Bank will leave its Headquarters in a foreign country? I'm not saying all business will leave, of course. Still, how much will? What will be the impact? Certainly, this idea that the separatistes keep touting that TROC will be reasonable and "nice" is absolutely absurd! It will be hurt and furious! It will be the worst divorce you can imagine! If Quebec tries to force issues by closing the TransCanada or the Seaway it might indeed come to military action! Separatistes should understand that the moment Quebec is separate they have zero influence in Ottawa, since they no longer will have any seats in Parliament. Any government will have to depend on TROC for getting and staying in power. If they in any way even appear to be giving too much to Quebec in any negotiations they run the risk of being bounced out of office. Do you really think any politician would risk that? So you are entitled to your opinions but you are a fool if you ignore these factors. If Quebec separates, its biggest problems will be internal, with its own people. Do you really think federalist Quebecers will simply say "Oh well! So it goes! We'll just do what we are told and be quiet!" Comment veut dire "idealist"? Comment veut dire "dreaming in technicolour"?

Few people care to examine how Quebec was treated from the days of the Plains of Abraham in context. They prefer to apply modern standards to historical times. The treatment of French Canada by the British was unheard of every before in Man's history! They imposed no cruel taxes or levies. They were given complete freedom not just with their religion but with their legal system! No other European country would even have thought of doing such, including France. Later, when Canada was formed, Quebec was accepted as not just an equal province among others but a powerful one. Some days I think that if our Founding Fathers could see how Quebec thinks of English Canada today they would wonder why they ever bothered to do so much for so little thanks.

I'm not always as good at acknowledging the other guy is right as I wish I was, CC. If someone's argument is good enough then it has to be accepted, or at least given strong consideration. I worry that now that I'm getting to be an old fart my brain might ossify! And yeah, I can understand how the NDP can't change its spots in a weekend or two. Still, it is very encouraging to see the leadership maturing. Maybe in this situation "trickle down" might work! Isn't it interesting that as the NDP becomes less hardcore socialist their support has dramatically increased! Jack was right! Mind you, they are still not my cup of tea but at least I can respect them. I no longer fear they will get in power and destroy the country. I am reminded of a story about Margaret Thatcher, when she finally lost to Labour and to Tony Blair. She was quoted as saying that Blair would serve Britain well! She recognized that Blair was a sensible leader who would not return Britain to the days of Scargill. Mulcair would not be my first choice but I believe that he will serve Canada well!

Actually CC, maybe you're right! I started to think about the last time I heard the old "proletariat" rhetoric and realised it's been maybe a decade, provincially or federally! Thank you! You give me hope! I have been saying for a long time that the NDP needed to become much more Tony Blair and much less Sid Ryan. Maybe it's finally been happening. Certainly Jack and now Mulcair are much more practical and sensible than what we saw before. I truly believe that Canada would be better served by having two parties, both with at least a modicum of fixed positions and philosophies. That means Tory and NDP, since the Liberals haven't shown any fixed beliefs for a long time, if ever. They are a brokerage party, changing their values for whatever might get them into power at any given time. Let the Liberals die as they deserve and let the Tories and NDP give Canadians clear choices.

I used Buzz as an example, like I used Sid Ryan. There are many others who could have served. I may be living in the past, but you sir are picking apart my model and ignoring my point.

I agree that "artsies" are not necessarily "lazy morons" but still, it is FAR easier to get an arts degree than one in a hard science or in engineering! While to become a Marshall McLuhan might require even more smarts and hard work than some engineering students it is true that if you simply memorize what you are taught and most important, ALWAYS agree with your prof you will get your degree! The difference between a mediocre engineer grad and a talented one will quickly become obvious. With an "artsie", a mediocre grad can get tenure, teach others and be respected till the day he dies. We went through a phase in the 80's where unemployment was high and business demanded at least a BA for many jobs. The BA could be in anything, since the job usually barely required a high school level of education. It was just a way to cut the height of the stack of job applications down to manageable levels. Then the high tech revolution really began to roll and more and more the jobs were in more technical areas. You needed a degree in something that was actually pertinent to the jobs available. What is an arts degree good for except teaching? While it may be true that the arts are vital to maintaining a common baseline of our history and culture we need relatively few arts grads to serve as professors, while we need far more grads from practical and scientific disciplines.

Topaz, this is precisely the reason for much controversy. You are right as far as federal law and throughout the rest of Canada but in Quebec, it has not been so ever since the first PQ government. Rene Levesque, the first PQ premier of Quebec, passed Bill 101, a language law that supposedly was just to protect French language and culture but severely contradicted many rights of anglophones in the province. Later came Bill 178, along the same lines. A "brain drain" started which is still going on of anglophones leaving Quebec, often from communities where their families had lived for hundreds of years. A popular bit of graffiti at the time was "101 + 178 = 401!", referring to anglophones traveling Hwy 401 through Ontario as they left Quebec. These Bills were challenged of course as being unconstitutional but Quebec simply invoked the "Notwithstanding Clause" which gives provinces the right to do such things anyway. The irony of Quebec using a clause in a constitution they refused to sign has not been politically correct to mention, in Quebec circles. If like me you have Quebec friends with school age children who are Anglos, you might want to talk to them about how they feel their rights to have their children schooled in English are respected. When you cross the border from Ontario into Quebec, notice how all the bilingual road signs disappear. When shopping in Montreal, notice the stores can't even have an apostrophe in their names. An apostrophe, for Pete's Sake! What an anal-retentive way to supposedly protect french language and culture. So the fast answer to your question about English and French both being official languages is, yes, you are right! Except that Quebec doesn't give a damn! It hasn't for nearly 40 years now, It slowly gets worse and worse. This attitude is responsible for much of the alienation many in TROC feel towards Quebec and why we now see threads actually calling for Quebec to be kicked out of Canada! This is not a feeling shared by just a few. There are a respectable number of citizens outside of Quebec who feel this way and sadly, the number is slowly growing.