Moxie

I get your point Drea and I agree, one can suffer and wait for the Canadian system to work eventually or head to another country to receive speedy treatment. At least we have a choice, Cubians don't. Personally if I need medical treatment I won't wait, I'm off to the states to pay for my treatment. For the record our system of Medical Care is not FREE, we pay some of the highest taxes in the world for our third world medical system. It's broken and bloated with paper pushers while the true heros slog it out daily trying to get job done while the paper pushers ply on stupid rules daily by the dozen. Give the health care providers back the Hospital Systems and disband the disfunctioning Hospital Admin Boards with their BAs and no working knowledge of the Medical System. They have ruined what use to be a great system.

Just like the house slaves in the US or the Jews who helped during the holocaust. You need to co-opts a part of the population you are holding down. FGM could not exist without women actively supporting it. I still hold it is in the end due to patriarchy. I'd agree with your assertion. We need to do more in educating immigrants that's it's criminal to mutilate females. There has already been one successful trial against a man who had it done against the mother's wishes. He's in jail, as he should be. Females are not property for men to do as they wish in Canada, religion is an excuse for this barbaric cultural practice. Another way to keep Muslim or African women subjugated and isolated from main stream society. On side note, why do these men want women who don't enjoy sex? Really someone lying dead staring at the ceiling praying it will be over soon or a willing partner who enjoys sex. It seems like a no brainer to me.

Don't be silly, doctors still have to obey the law. The law???? Why, some posters here would rather Dr Gish not practice his right - that was given by the law! So now, you're talking about the law?? Anyway, with this Conscience Clause, do you now agree that doctors have the right to refuse based on religious grounds? Answer this question and we're back discussing...otherwise, we're through on this thread. Conscience clause, spare me the left/left hyperhole. By your own admission your so called JW doctor would not withhold a blood transfusion, so he/she was able to place his/her religion aside and treat you as a patient. You are really are coming across as a hypocrite on this issue. So you advocate a doctor using his religion as a reason not treat patients that don't meet his moral ethos. How narrow minded are you? Here's another example of what happens when a doctor places his religion above his responsiblity as a Doctor. Article: and the link: http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/20...your_docto.html When Your Doctor is a Muslim: Medical Terrorism Comes to America Printer Friendly By Debbie Schlussel Sometimes--so many times--diversity is not what it's cracked up to be. Just ask Joseph Applebaum. Well, you could ask him. But you won't get an answer. He's dead. And he's dead because he was a Jew, and his doctor is a Muslim and grad of "Ayman Al-Zawahiri" Medical School. But Applebaum wasn't denied treatment for being a Jew in Egypt. Or elsewhere in the Muslim world. It happened right here on U.S. soil. In Chicago. As Muslim doctors continue to flood into the country under lax immigration laws, hospitals around the country have acquired their fair share of them. Many hospitals in the Detroit area are now dominated by Muslim doctors and have been for some time. Joseph Applebaum, Z"L*: Muslim Doctor Refused to Treat Him, Let Him Die But even in hospitals where they do not predominate, Muslim doctors are starting to demonstrate behavior toward non-Muslim patients that is beyond alarming. On December 1, 2003, Joe Applebaum was admitted to Rush North Shore Medical Center, a major hospital in Chicago. He was stricken with an acute (or distended) abdomen--a swelling of the stomach that is easily diagnosed and treated. But it was never treated by anyone at the hospital. For 12 hours, Joe Applebaum was left alone--left to die, which he did the next day. A Jewish man, he was identified as a Jew on the front page of his medical chart. The chief resident doctor assigned to treat Mr. Applebaum, Osama Ahmed Ibrahim, MD, sure noticed the religious notation on Applebaum's chart. And it appears that this is why he never once checked or examined this emergency patient, Mr. Applebaum, and left him to die. When another doctor at the hospital finally examined Mr. Applebaum--not his assigned doctor, Dr. Ibrahim, he told Applebaum's son, Michael, to say good-bye to his father because he was about to die. Dr. Ibrahim, is a Muslim from Birmingham, England--a hotbed of Islamic radicalism and terror planning. It is breeding ground for anti-Semitic hate. He is a graduate of Ain Shams University Medical School in Egypt. This extremist school featured on its faculty the father of Al-Qaeda mastermind and number two, Dr. Ayman Al-Zawahiri. Pere Zawahiri was a Muslim Brotherhood activist. Why did Dr. Ibrahim neglect a patient who came in with an easily treatable condition and leave him to die, 12 hours later? It appears it can only be because he did not want to treat a Jewish patient and let him live. There can be no other reason. Mr. Applebaum's son, Michael, is a medical doctor and an attorney. While he was waiting for Dr. Ibrahim to see his father, he called Dr. Ibrahim and alerted him to the growingly severe condition his father was in and that his father was suffering from an acute abdomen. Dr. Ibrahim claimed he examined Mr. Applebaum. But that was a lie. He'd never seen him. And he essentially murdered him by denying treatment. It's a case of extreme negligence and medical malpractice for the apparent purpose of anti-Semitic murder. Joseph Applebaum's son Michael is now suing Dr. Ibrahim, the hospital--Rush North Shore Medical Center, and others involved in his father's murder. The case is filed in Illinois, and he is looking for a good attorney to pursue the case he has filed. If you are interested or can help, please contact him at the website he set up to document this ongoing tragedy. This isn't the only case where a Muslim doctor deliberately let his Jewish patient die, it is just the first that we know of. And it likely won't be the last. Muslim doctors--especially those from foreign medical schools deep in the world of anti-Semitic, anti-American hate; but many from here, too--have backgrounds that are incompatible with the basic level of care that is required and expected in America. Sadly, no-one is vetting them out of our healthcare system. And no-one will. But we know that there are many doctors who've been at the forefront of taking lives--not saving them--in the name of the "Religion of Peace": * Dr. Ayman Al-Zawahiri--Al-Qaeda mastermind and number two man, reportedly a surgeon and/or psychiatrist; * Dr. Mohammad Rabi Al-Zawahiri--Ayman's father and a Muslim Brotherhood enthusiast, pharmacologist and professor at Ain Shams Medical School; * Dr. "Abu Hafiza"--Al-Qaeda master planner who was the brains and commander of the Moroccan cell that provided logistics for the 9/11 attacks, and he recruited Qaeda insurgents for battles in Fallujah, Moroccan psychiatrist; * Dr. Abdel Aziz Al-Rantisi--Late HAMAS leader, pediatrician; * Dr. Mahmoud Al-Zahar--HAMAS co-founder and leader, surgeon and lecturer at the Islamic University in Gaza; * Dr. Fathi Abd Al-Aziz Shiqaqi--Late founder of Islamic Jihad and active in Fatah, physician; * Dr. George Habash--Founder and chief of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), pediatrician (which is interesting since he rocketed a school bus full of children in Avivim, Israel; * Dr. Bashar Assad--President of Terror-sponsor state Syria, welcoming home to every Islamic terrorist group imaginable, ophthalmologist. And there are other issues, such as infectious disease. We are no seeing cases in Britain in which some Muslim doctors refuse to wash their hands with alcohol-based disinfectant, per the Muslim prohibition on alcohol consumption. In New Jersey, Dr. Ahmed Rashed, a Muslim Arab resident, severed and stole the hand of a cadaver as a gift for a stripper. Such little respect for life from a religion now very much participating in a profession that takes an oath to do no harm and to preserve patient's lives. Not only did he get a slap on the hand--no jail time and, likely, no criminal record--but he currently has a job practicing medicine at Maimonides Medical Center in New York. The real Maimonides--a legendary, brilliant Jewish doctor, rabbi, and religious scholar--is turning over in his grave. Perhaps, Dr. Applebaum's suit against Rush North Shore Medical Center will make hospitals think twice before they hire Muslim doctors inclined to practice Medical terrorism against their patients. Today, the victim is a Jew, solely because he is Jewish. But tomorrow, it will be a Christian, solely because he/she is a Christian. Or some other non-Muslim victim, solely because he/she is a non-Muslim victim. Can we afford to have doctors in America whose allegiance to their patients is far less than their allegiance to an extreme observance of a religion of hate? If they cannot and will not tender care, they should not be licensed to practice medicine in the United States.

Stop pandering to them, since September 11 the left and the left/left have tripped over themselves globally granting special powers to Islam's followers. New rules in schools, special prison cells. Christ the list globally is endless, the left call it "Reasonable Accommadation" also knowns as kissing their asses. Islam is a minority in our government and should be treated as such, to date the ass kissing has only helped to aid the abusers in believing they are the victims. I don't think so, but hay the left like to pander to Muslims because they like the immigrant vote. As per usual the left have no answers to the problems they create so they look to the cons for leadership.

It's ironic that Muslims can rant, rail, riot and scream how much they hate us in Democratic Countries but we are suppose to embrace limp wristed programs that attempt to foster tolerance towards us. Please spare me the socialist fluff, if they can't tolerate our way of life leave. We infidels and Jew pigs (Islamic term for the Jews not mine) aren't the ones showing intolerance it's the so called Moderates that cheer in front of their TV's when we infidels get killed by the Radical Islamists in our countries. I can just image the media hyperhole in the next few days interviewing the "So called moderate Imams" in England and Scotland. Wait for it people, their tried and true fear of the "BACK LASH" yes sir ree they always talk about this mythical character called BACK LASH. It's never happens this thing called BACK LASH where hoards of non-Muslims are screaming in the streets for Muslim blood, but the biased socialist media in England will be discussing this BACK LASH like it's a real thing. It's time for the so called Moderates to speak out, will they of course not. A fifth column and world domination is the moderates dream as well.

Errrr...mind pointing me to a post where I said that? If you do, I'll point you to the post where you said you like to mate with turnips and goats. I can see the goat thing happening, cough cough but a turnip. Dear me, it must of been my catholic upbringing, turnip sex. Who knewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. LOL of course it was Muslims who drove the gas filled vehicles into buildings, to date all domestic terror attacks in the past six years have been commited by Radical Islamists. Not Jews, not the CIA or M6, or the FBI or the old Lady's Brigate that knits for premmies.

Read labels, and if you suspect it's been made in China boycotte it. I do, I don't support a Communist Regime or a poisonous food chain. China gives new meaning to the word greedy buggers.

Well the Globe and Rail reported today the socialist/left/left hero is importing 100,000 barrels of oil to supply his own country-from Russia. LOL the second largest producer of oil can't even keep the production up to meet supply and demand. He's a moron that can't even find qualified people to run his socialist utopia, soon the people will be gasless and starving. Hail socialism and it's idiot followers.

There are a lot of folks who have no idea the extent of the problem growing in Europe. I'm not as fearful for Britain...they have always taken care of themselves pretty well once they become aware of the threat, but some sections of Europe are plunging headlong into this nightmare with their eyes closed and their noses held. Most notably Belgium and the north western countries. France is finally waking up, but it's becoming a powder keg, and the ironic thing is that it all could have been prevented. Most posters never take the time to study this issue, they are to busy appeasing a Religion they've taken no time to get to know. Sweden has admited that it will be an Islamic state in the future but the spokes-person stated "We've been good and kind to them, so we are confident they will be good to us". One word Lebanon, this religion brokers no discussion or comprimise. Only a fool would believe they can live in an Islamic state and be treated as an equal. Perhaps the Swedes should read what Allah had to say about us infidels and what Jizya is. Dhimmitude anyone? Again this nightmare called Mulitculture rears it's ugly head, the socialist dogma is distroying Europes soon to be Eurabia's culture.

I honestly think the left will still be in deniel if a bomb blew up their seventies paneled basements. No one ever said Radical Islamists were smart, but hay it's the Jews and the CIA. Tin Foil in isle five, nope sold out.

Yea it's the CIA and the Jews, heaven forbid the vermin Radical Islamists are ever held accountable by the left. What's a crediable site to the left? Tin Foil, what brand names speak the truth. Related Article: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/07/01...lert/index.html

Here are a few articles on the true victims of the myth of Mulitculture, because of the socialist and the left these women must suffer. Their tolerance of barbaric cultural practices is the reason these problems continue. Articles: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/fema...in_page_id=1879 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2007/06/...sers-admit.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287393,00.html This is typical of the left/left they are blaming "Global Warming" on the increase in rapes but no mention of Islam's Culture of "Male" entitlement. Yep it's not the males fault, the socialist love Global Warming it gives them an excuse to excuse the inexcusable. http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2223

I don't think I would want a doctor working on me who didn't base his treatment on personal beliefs and ethics. A doctor is not a teacher; not a postal worker; not even a cop. A doctor is a special class of individual because they have the power of life and death. That's not their job. It's not their business. It's their *duty* and it's a heavy one. Those doctors who do not take that seriously are valueless as physicians and possibly dangerous as well. Take, for example, the overpaid butcher who mutilated Michael Jackson, albeit at his own request. Does anybody think he has any personal beliefs, religious or otherwise? If a certain doctor's interpretation of the Oath's primary admonition to "Do No Harm" includes hours-old zygotes, that has to be the doctor's right. Nor must he/she be compelled to give a referral for such a procedure, since that would still be participation in the act. At such a point, confronted with a rape victim, it becomes the hospital administation's responsibility to provide the referral. In the unlikely event that a public hospital doesn't have any other physicians on hand willing to perform the procedure, even the smallest of towns has a women's centre or clinic where honest and dedicated people work very hard from *their* personal beliefs to provide just such a referral. In fact, dealing with such an agency would undoubtedly be less traumatic for the rape victim than any emergency ward full of male doctors. I don't know the end of the story that's been told here, but I doubt the victim was denied her treatment in the end. I'm afraid this is one of those freedoms that has to be absolute to be worth anything. Any talk of compelling physicians to perform procedures against their personal beliefs is dangerous talk and has huge ramifications. It's not a precedent we want to set. And don't anybody be dissing Jehovah's Witness docs, either. I actually had one and he was the best physician I have ever had. I've never before or since found a doctor that treats the mind, body and spirit the way he did. I once asked him about the transfusion thing and he told me that was largely a stereotype. He promised me he wouldn't let me die of blood loss. I heartly disagree with the bolded text, their was no "Precedure" a pill is not a "Precedure". IT's called medication. As for his beliefs, or lack their of hog wash. He's a doctor not a priest or pastor, he has no business using his trusted position of being a Doctor to pass judgement. If he can't do his job in a hospital setting without passing judgement he should be fired. He can go into private practice and pass judgement to the cows come home. This issue has nothing to do with lax Administration, it's a narrow minded man who treated his patients with total callousness and cold disregard and he's using his religious beliefs as an excuse. I'm catholic, I don't believe in abortion but I believe in a woman's right to choose. I don't believe in assisted sucide but I believe in a persons right to choose. What right do I have to force my "Personal" beliefs down societies throat. It's another example of excusing the inexcusable by the socialist namby pamby crowd. This total tolerance of anyone else's beliefs, is more manure to heap on the compost of society. You see that dogma causes the innocents of society to suffer because the left/left pander to a minority. Simply if you can't do the job because of "Personal Ethos" don't accept the job. It's not rocket science, it's called "Common Sense" something the left/left have none of.

The Sex Party doesn't sound very inclusive. What about the virgins? Maybe someone should start a "Virgin Party of B.C."? I think they have one already... They're called Young Conservatives...... I didn't find the young ladies in that party to be particularly virginal when I was there...quite the contrary. The young NDP, on the other hand, hated men, so that didn't make for loose trousers...thank God...have you ever seen a young NDP woman? Yuck! LOL are you sure they weren't men in drag? The NDP are rather fond of the transvestites as a voting block.

I think I've said a few times is that Canada should serve its time in place and if NATO or the Afghans can't find someone to replace us, it says more about our allies than us. As soon as everything thinks that Canada is a permanent fixture in place, the less they think about what they have to do themselves to make the situation better. I agree, we should leave when our mandate is up. Let the lazy members of Nato step up to the plate and do some of the hard work. The Germans and the Belgiums have been in the safe zone long enough, let them come out of their safe zones and participate under a Stabalization Mandate and toss the "Peace Keeper" mandate they are hiding behind. We've done our share, our boys are going to need a rest. We are a small military and if we over-tax our troops the long term side effects will distroy the back bone of the Military.

It's not the immigrant's fault if he practices his culture in a society that says and encourages that he practice his culture. "Multi-culturalism" is how the left-wing want to sell Canada! And I believe multi-culturalism will be our downfall. For McGuinty to even consider the possibility of Sharia Law being acceptable in our society is really what's scary! I feel standing on shaky ground. Shows you that all it takes is to have someone with the authority and power to tweak our system. Bravo Betsy, that in a nut shell is the problem with this Country and the Federal. Government. The left and the left/left pat themselves on the back for their Absolute Tolerance of other cultures with out giving pause to the fact that some of those cultural practices are barbaric and negate our laws. I also agree that to even consider allowing Sharia Law in a democratic country is absurb. England has been allowing it for a few years, a two tier legal system one based on the rule of law the other based on "Man's interpretation of a so called HOLY BOOK". It's assine, we as a society need to stand back and rethink "What do we want from our immigrants". I've had enough of the Federal left dominated government agencies TELLING us what we will tolerate. Stop this leftest nonsense, muliticulture is a cancer that eats it's host. It's a socialist myth to get the immigrant vote and it's been working for shy on twenty years.

Scot your words sum up how I feel Eggactly. Anyone who speaks out against immigration is a bigot and a racists these days. That's how the left attack progressive conversations regarding immigration. All Canadians deserve a say in the immigration process, it's our country and we have a right to speak out loud on it's future. Immigration is part of our future. I could careless where are immigrants come from or the color of their skin what scares me is the "Cultural Practices" of our immigrants. Honour killings are taking place in Canada, the enforcement of Sharia Law on Muslim women, females being forced into enforced marrages, sexual mutilation, children being denied their legal rights under tribal Laws. I have no time or patience for the subjugation of females, it's high time we made it clear to male immigrants that they can leave their barbaric cultural practices at the airport. I've read hundreds of stories regarding females being prisoners in their own homes in the name of Allah, family honour visa vie hindu culture and Somalian Tribal Law. If these immigrants can't live under Canadian Laws and Canadian Culture get the hell out. Women in this country have already fought for equality and I for one will not tolerate male immigrants using the excuse "It's our Culture." Big deal, my ancestors use to abduct females from other clans to keep the gene pool clean. If a male scot did that today he'd be charged with kidnapping. This issue is often brushed aside by the socialist in Canada because they don't care about the suffering of female immigrants they just want the immigrant vote. It's beyond shameful to allow such suffering, can you image being a female immigrant and you believe that you are starting a new and free life only to have your husband rebuild the hell hole enclave that you fled? Think of that.

Thank you for the welcome Drea.

Any war that is waged to save the oppressed, abused and enslaved by a Communist/Islamic dictator is just in my book. The world has stayed silent long enough while genocide takes place, to act after the fact is cowardly. One only has to look at Dafur to see what happens when a vicious dicator like the President of Sudan is allowed to commit genocide (with the support of China and France) in the name of some false prophet. I will never be a pacifist, to do nothing but commit words, to me, is an act of treason towards your fellow man. It's easy to be a coward, it takes brave men to take a stand and fight.

In an ideal world. Public health care complicates things though August. If smokers pay their way, then ok. But I don't want to fund anyone else's person choices (and I don't expect others to fund mine). What about second hand exposure? Should we tax all people that enter a smokey bar because they will eventually be a higher risk? How about bar employees that don't smoke, should there be a payroll tax for their increased risk to the system? I hate to tell you this Geoffrey but that is what health care is about, you do not have the right to dictate free will. If you are willing to subject smokers to a socialist tax then would you be okay with a "Fat Tax", being fat is a choice. Would you be okay with a drinking tax and who decideds how much alcohol is enough? What about inherited deseases would we punish a family for giving birth knowing their is a chance the child might get heart desease in fifty years. This topic is utter nonsense, how far are you willing to go Geoffrey for your socialist utopia. Oh and Geoffrey Canada has already banned smoking in public so you might want to catch up on your reading.

Perhaps you should read the entire thread in order to avoid such an obvious strawman. Show me where they "omitted everyone but Chinese Canadians". "But he later said the NAP wasn't a Chinese Canadian party and he intended to recruit immigrants from all ethnic groups." Link Why are you trying to play this infantile game? You keep edging backwards, dragging the goalposts with you. A minute ago you were denying that saying they would work hard for Chinese Canadians wasn't exclusionary, and now you're denying that they said it...or at least they changed their minds or whatever. Lets set the grounds rules so I don't have to chase you all over the playing field. What purpose do you think this party serves? Why do you think it was formed? Well the question wasn't posed to me but may I be so bold as to answer? I planned on doing so anyway. The sole purpose of this party is to pander to the Socialist in Canada. Socialism is communism in it's infancy. China is communist and it's people "Supposedly flee to escape" a brutal communist country and yet they want to start their own political party to pander to Chinese people. I smell hypocrisy from those who want to start this party. The assertion that they will help all new immigrants is rather arrogant, who are the Chinese to decide what new immigrants are entitled to. We have programs in place to aide new immigrants, including language courses. A trend has started in Canada that has dangerous consequences, this trend is Muslim only schools, black only schools (Toronto) when will this stop? Will all minorities at the expense of the majority tax payers be entitled to "More" than the rest of society. Because that is the path we are headed unless we stop this Socialist nonsense. Is Canada to become like England where non-majorities are segregated and sent to the back of the bus or forced to where a hyjab less they offend the easily offended? The liberals lost the election but their battle for a socialist utopia rages on in the Senate and on the streets.

LOL well stated and so very true. It's sad that so many useful Idiots do the scut work for terrrorist in Canada by posting propaganda.

Iran's president has threatened to distroy Israel, several times. He's barking mad, if he obtains nukes god help the free world. The people of Iran need to remove him from power and make sure he takes his Mullahs and Imams with him. Wahhabi Islam is not a path for civilized societies, and Iran and it's people deserve better than crazy women hating men running their country.

I agree I'd sue him as well, but I'd plaster his god fearing fundy ways all over the media first. This woman was RAPED, do those who think he was within the boundries of his oath get that? He vowed to "Do no Harm". Can you image being raped and then treated as she was by this doctor? I don't care if he worships the moon his job is his patients, you leave your morals at the door or quit. He should have his license to practice medicine in a hospital revoked. Enough of this pandering to religious fanatics whom deem what is moral and just. To allow that woman to suffer as he did speaks volumns regarding him and his god. As for the inane assertion that she go to another doctor, dear god how inhumane that is. How can anyone be that cold blooded and cruel. Get raped and you must shop around until you find a doctor who's not judging your morals. I'm having flash backs to the sixties and seventies, women and coat hangers. Religion is just another excuse for small minded men to subjugate a women's right to be equal in society in the name of their god or prophet. We need a law banning religion in medicine, not a law regulating morals in medicine.

In Canada you are innocent until proven guilty, to remove the choice of a trial by jury would be a grave injustice to the people in Free and Democratic Country. Judges are appointed by political partys, I would never want these individuals to have absolute control of our legal system. I smell the stench of Communsism slash Socialism. Great posts Mad and Dancer. If Scooter is a communist place her/him in the general population and let them deal with scooter.