Peter F

In reply to Huxley post 288 ....sigh....I do not have any citizenship papers. I'm not even sure I have a birth certificate. I do have a drivers license though. And a health card. I could burn those if you like, though they won't burn as well as citizenship papers.

I care very much. But I'm not foolish enough to believe that I can control how our society evolves. There are millions of us citizens not just me and you and some political party or other. It's a huge mish-mash and our system allows that to function. I believe our multi-cultural values (acknowledging you do not share that value) gives this country great civil strength and we need not fear third-worlders as a result. Its a great country our forefathers cooked up and it did not turn out like they intended it to either!

Huxley you have clearly stated that you fear the yellow hordes. All the fears you carry of Panda's and colonization and sinosomethingorother, I do not share - not even a little bit. Everyone else here so far have not resorted to your racist claptrap. Except you. In fact you can shove that racist fear of the chinaman up your butt. Me and you got nuthin to talk about.

No problem at all . OH! crap. I don't have any citizenship papers at all. but, yeah, if I did I could put a match to them and it wouldn't bother me in the least.

Allright, I'll say it again so's you can stew for a while more; I think anyone born here should be conferred with citizenship. Canadian citizenship IS candy! China can confer citizenship on whoever they want for whatever reasons please them and I do not care in the slightest how the chinese government determines those things. Copy and past this onto Notepad. When you need confirmation that Peter F actually said that then you can open your notepad and there it will be.

Argus, me and you are both Canadians yet the values we supposedly share, as filtered through MLW are few and far between. And it ain't just you and me, the values you and Canadian "Lefties' share are also few and far between; or SJW's; or Feminazi's; or the poor. So generally speaking I don't think Canadians do share common values or culture. But, as I pointed out in the post above, we do all end up living under a common set of laws and civil responsibilities wether we like them or not. Only in that sense do we share values or culture. "Acquiring citizenship they don't deserve": Who doesn't deserve Canadian citizenship? Foreigners? Third-world foreigners maybe? Poles? Norwegians? Russians? Turks? Arabs? the Chinese? There is a way of acquiring Canadian citizenship and that is the immigration process that is in place. I understand that you don't like that process either. Any child born in this country 'deserves' citizenship. That may not be how you acquired yours but it is certainly how I acquired mine. I say I deserve that citizenship and I resent the implication that I didn't deserve that citizenship at birth due to my lack of shared values/culture with you or anyone else anywhere. Citizenship is in fact a piece of paper and nothing more. It is a legal condition. A rubber stamp. Nothing more than a passport or a birth certificate. No values or cultural hurdles or hoops to be leapt through or met.

I do see Canada as a nation of people. It's own culture? Its own values? I doubt very much that we could agree on what those values are judging from what I have read here on MLW since I showed up. So no, I don't believe that there is some common shared value set or culture common to all Canadians. However, being a functional democracy for the most part, I suppose that at the end of the day what comes out in the wash is a value set and culture that is unique as reflected by our laws and civil bureaucracy. So Yes, I do believe Canada does have a unique culture and its own values. Are those values and that resulting culture important to preserve? Not really. Both evolve over time as Canada's society evolves. I would not say that our culture - whatever that is - or our values - whatever those are - need to be preserved in amber for all time.

Of course we foot thier medical bills. Should they ever come and live here they will be citizens and all citizens get thier medical bills almost entirely paid for by the taxpayer . Even you. Most certainly me. ... and every other Canadian citizen.

It's not cheating the system in even the remotest. The rule is, and has been for a very loong time, if born in Canada then Canadian citizenship goes right along with it (foreign nationals serving foriegn governments excepted). Tourism has been around for a very long time too. This isn't some new thing. So why are you upset now? Whats different now? Nothing.

They're not getting around the immigration system. Not even in the slightest.

I don't think jokes and giggles have as much power as you think they have.

No, not free borders at all. My standards would be pretty much the standard we have now - No criminals allowed. No deceit to get in allowed. What those standards have to do with granting citizenship of birth is beyond me. Is Canada an island?...sort of, yes. Owned by the crown, more or less. With culture or without, it matters not. Anyone can come and go as they please as long as the proper paperwork is filled out, and again no criminals allowed. and no fraud allowed. Pretty much it.

Perhaps that too light-hearted. Maybe a much darker scenario... The Caliphs of ISIS get a plot together to get a sleeper-agent into Canada. They learn that Canada grants citizenship to any that are born there. Excellent... So they find some fanatic but sensible woman who is pregnant. Provide the funding and papers for her to travel to Canada and give birth then return to the Caliphate. IF It comes off without a hitch. The child is then raised as a super-secret, super-fanatic with the aim of sending that child back to Canada to commit all sorts of terrorists acts. Would that citizenship still be granted by me IF I knew that that was the plan? Yes. No problem whatsoever.

Just to clarify my position on citizenship by birth, since it seems some keep bringing up that the parents of the newborn may just be tourists, as if they are trying to get to where I would draw a line. Let me provide an imagined scenario in which citizenship by birth would still stand. A woman is pregnant in some other country somewhere. She thinks it would be really cool if she gave birth in Canada so's she, at cocktail parties, could mention that her child is also a Canadian! Wouldn't that be the coolest thing?. So the time comes and off to Canada she goes (maybe at her own cost, maybe at somebody else's cost, whatever). She gives birth to a fine child, and then returns to her home country. At future gatherings she and her peers laugh and giggle at the fact that Canada allowed her child to have Canadian citizenship. Silly Canada! To my mind the citizenship stands. Even then!

I have no doubt that many tourists have visitors visa's.

I do not know.

Not tourists, Wilber. Any child born here gets it for nothing. Free. Without charge; No investment whatsoever; no back-ground checks; no tests. newborn babes get it just like every other newborn babe in Canada. Edit to add: Actually one requirement: Birth certificate showing that person was born here. Upon production of such then no question whatsoever about whether they are Canadian citizen.

like Cyber says. I hold china to the standard of "I don't give a shit why, how or when" they grant citizenship. I do care about those things regarding Canada granting citizenship.

oh jeez the value of your citizenship just dropped like a rock. Better say something nice about it to bring it back up to par again.

What statement isn't true? I believe is stated Back at post #184 I think. So whats not true?

But I do not care what citizenship requirements of China are. Is there some secret reason that cannot be uttered that makes China's rules of importance to Canada?

Nope. China grants citizenship to whoever they want whenever it pleases them to do so.

Thanks for that link WCRunner. I found it interesting that the apparent goal of denying citizenship at birth is to keep up the 'value' of citizenship. (see near bottom of linked article: Recommendation "...Thereby preserving the value of citizenship.") Apparently That is the sole aim of not granting citizenship at birth! I am still unable to see how the supposed value of my citizenship changes if others share that citizenship. There is no way of measuring such value. Any value rests entirely within the mind of the citizenship holder and varies from individual to individual.

Excellent. Then when that third-child absconds from China with all the money mom and dad squirrelled away, they will not be a drain on your precious tax dollars. The perfect citizen don't you think?

What deal? Did anyone make a deal with the government of china about reciprocal citizenship-granting mechanisms? Has anyone proposed such? Do you suppose that Canada has and does grant citizenship to all the babies in the hopes of other nations reciprocating?