kuzadd

And show me any recent cases of Jewish or Christain random murder, rapine and pillaging inflicted upon Muslims, outside Serbia. jbq: beside the raping, murdering and pillaging in Iraq, Afghanistan? or the US backed "christian" gov. in Africa? Please, don't even deny, this has not been the case, when it is known that it has been. The general premise put forward by yourself and argus is faulty, greater violence, based on proportion of populations, has been from the west -anglo/americans/Israel, the smaller of the population, have inflicted far greater violence, on the Muslim population. Through war/occupations/ overthrowing of Arab/Muslim elected governments/support of tyrannical regimes, etc., An interesting case I will cite, though as an example of Jewish/Christian collaboration in murder/rape/ was the Sabra, Shatila massacre. Are you aware of that one? I imagine you are. While the Israeli army, under command of Ariel Sharon, surrounded the refugee camp, the Lebanese Chrisitan Malitia went in and raped and murdered, for three days, and the Israeli army stood by, encircling the camp. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2255902.stm Sabra and Shatila 20 years on "On 16 September 1982, under the watchful eye of their Israeli allies who had encircled the area, Lebanese Christian militiamen entered Beirut's Sabra and Shatila refugee camps bent on revenge for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel. There followed a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict." There is lot's of information on this incident available. jbq: not everyone, in any given group of persons has "clean hands: but to demonize all, for the crimes of some is wrong. That is all there is to it.

Oh, oh, God is smiting him! lol

http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis46.html The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism' the article goes on...... and another excerpt as it did in WW2, against the Jews at that time another excerpt I especially find this segment interesting: Claims by fevered neoconservatives that Muslim radicals plan to somehow impose a worldwide Islamic caliphate are lurid fantasies worthy of Dr. Fu Manchu and yet another example of the big lie technique that worked so well over Iraq. this is inciteful also: and then this , where/who are the modern fasicsts? Someone thankfully, and I am not alone, can see the writing on the wall! An excellent article and worth a read in it's entirety, though the truths in it are a bitter pill for us in the west. It's time we in the west take a look in the mirror, a good hard look. Some amongst us had better do it, immediately.

I never made the connection, but I also remember seeing Hitler's propaganda cartoons as one where an octopus (the Jewry) had the globe firmly in its grasp. I'm surprised that one wasn't mentioned in the examples cited. I am familiar with that bit of propaganda. How about Saddam Hussein as a spider and iraqnaphobia? Maybe there has just been so much propaganda, it can't all be covered in one article? BC_chick: "I never made the connection," I think that is the problem that too many people don't make that connection. Do you recall, in the lead up to / and at the start the attack on iraq, the stats on the number of Americans that believed Iraq was connected to 9/11, it was something like 70% of the American population. That's how it happened, the Bush administration "suggested" it over and over and over and over. from GWB, to Dick Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, Don Rumsfeld etc., they suggested it over and over in a classic propogandist method, Called the BIG LIE. It works on the premise that repeating a distortion , on a grand scale, will get the desired results. It did. Since no one will believe anyone ( the Bush admin) would tell such a huge lie. http://www.answers.com/topic/big-lie "The phrase Big Lie refers to a propaganda technique developed by Adolf Hitler, and documented in his 1925 autobiography Mein Kampf which consists of telling a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe anyone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously"." As did the WMD's claim. Then you had the phony yellow cake claims to bolster the propaganda. or how about the "smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud" How many times was that reiterated by the Bush admin??? BIG LIE

http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Media/Military.asp Propaganda can serve to rally people behind a cause, but often at the cost of exaggerating, misrepresenting, or even lying about the issues in order to gain that support. Ya know like Iraq/9-11 While the issue of propaganda often is discussed in the context of militarism, war and war-mongering, it is around us in all aspects of life. As the various examples below will show, common tactics in propaganda often used by either side include: * Using selective stories that come over as wide-covering and objective. * Partial facts, or historical context * Reinforcing reasons and motivations to act due to threats on the security of the individual. or the country * Narrow sources of “experts” to provide insights in to the situation. (For example, the mainstream media typically interview retired military personnel for many conflict-related issues, or treat official government sources as fact, rather than just one perspective that needs to be verified and researched). * Demonizing the “enemy” who does not fit the picture of what is “right”. * Using a narrow range of discourse, whereby judgments are often made while the boundary of discourse itself, or the framework within which the opinions are formed, are often not discussed. The narrow focus then helps to serve the interests of the propagandists.

so a few posters were discussing propoganda during wartime, so here we go. and it always works the same................. During World War I, the German threat was depicted as a mad, marauding gorilla with a bloody club. Recently, an American political cartoon asked the question, "What Would Mohammed Drive?" and answered it with a drawing of a man dressed in Muslim garb driving a rental truck with a missile hanging out the back. Related Stories "For most human beings, it takes an awful lot to allow them to kill another human being," said Anthony Pratkanis, a psychology professor at the University of California, Santa Cruz. "The only way to do it is to justify the killing, to make the enemy look as evil as possible." Propaganda, both by governments and the private media, has evolved over the years as media has evolved. But, some say, the principle remains the same. said James Forsher, a film historian and documentary filmmaker who has studied propaganda films, and who is an assistant professor of mass communications at California State University, Hayward. he said. "That is why during World War II, a lot of caricatures became animals. … You can kill a monkey a lot more easily than you can kill a neighbor."Fake Atrocities and Propaganda Films or incubator babies? or that poor jesica Lynch, who just had to be 'rescued' Buck-Toothed Japanese, Fanatical Arabs demonization World War II posters showed shadowy Nazism looming over America and its citizens, and racist stereotypes of the Japanese with thick glasses, buck teeth, and sometimes animal-like features. One amateur poster showed a stylized Japanese man carrying a limp, naked white woman over his shoulder and was emblazoned with the words, "This Is the Enemy." A poster produced by an American corporation showed a giant Hitler with a handgun and a Japanese man with a bloody knife looming on either side of the globe, with North America between them. "Warning!" the poster said. "Our Homes Are In Danger Now!" Hollywood again spooled out patriotic films. This time, they included animated shorts that portrayed the Germans and, especially, the Japanese as ridiculous or racist caricatures, said Stefan Kanfer, author of Serious Business: Cartoons and America, from Betty Boop to Toy Story. Often, the cartoons featured well-known animation characters, such as Popeye in Scrap the Japs, he said. Some believe such caricatures, and the racist attitudes they fostered, allowed America to tolerate the internment of Japanese-Americans during the war. "I think our sensibilities are a little different, but not that different," Forsher said. "I don't think we're showing an Arabic population carrying knives and stabbing Americans. But then again, who is the villain in the new James bond film? North Koreans." doesn't that sound familiar? Yup it does! http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=79071 and it is an issue of morality, though not religion, because as human beings, we should recognize, when "morality" is used in very immoral ways.

That would not be a first on this forum given the use of the term "the Muslim problem" drop Muslim, put Jew in it's place and you have Hitler's rhetoric, which I pointed out to sharkman( who was the one who said this) at that time. As others have remarked, the major difference is that the Nazis deliberatey cooked up a "threat" which did not exist, blaming all the people's woes on an already despised minority. To my knowledge, the Jews of that era were guilty of nothing whatsoever except hard work, and putting a lot of emphasis on education and family. The Muslims are not a minority. There's damned near a billion of them, and the distrust and hard questons about them are directly proportionate and caused by the violence being commited by Muslims against non-Muslims. Virtually all the world's violence now comes from Muslims, and while those commiting the violence are few, support for their actions is often widespread in the Muslim world. and what threat is it that Islam in general poses? " "them"? what do you mean by that? especially in light of what follows in your sentence, which I have split in two So there are about 1 billion Muslims, ok, "and the distrust and hard questions are directly proportionate and caused by the violence being commited by Muslims against non-Muslims." why how many Muslims are commiting violence against Non-muslims?? wanna cite Israel/Palestine? Actually statistically speaking, Israel inflicts more violence on Palestine. that is a fact, let's move on OK? Let's look at ...... the West, in Iraq, or the West in Afghanistan, or the West in Africa. So how many non--Muslims are directing violence against Muslims, in proportional relation to population??!!! It has in fact been the West that through modern history that has inflicted disproportionate violence ,(based on population numbers) murder and misery, occupation, on the Muslims, from the British Empire, through to the American Empire? Your insinuations are nonsense. even if you wish to cite 9/11, that was alleged to have been 19 people, 19 out of a billion.

the word dominionism is NOT a PEJORATIVE either, it is a name, of a movement, born out of an already 'right' christianity, to a more fanatical , theocratic version of christianity. Despite scriblett's 'claims'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism Dominionism: seems to have grown right out of christianity itself, regardless of what scribbs falsely claims. Dominionism describes a movement among socially conservative Christians to gain influence or control over secular civil government through political action — seeking either a nation governed by Christians or a nation governed by a Christian understanding of biblical law. The term "dominionism" originated in the late 1980s to describe the activities of portions of the Christian Right in the United States; but has been used to discuss similar trends in Canada, and several European countries. Some writers argue that the most militant theocratic forms of "dominionism" have had a direct influence upon the more moderate Christian Right; and that dominionism in general raises issues regarding separation of church and state in the United States. The movement emerged in the late 1970s and 1980s, sparked in part by a series of books and films featuring Francis A. Schaeffer, a Presbyterian pastor and evangelist, popular Evangelical apologist, and founder of L'Abri, a Christian community in Switzerland. His book, film and lecture series, "Whatever Happened to the Human Race?", co-authored with C. Everett Koop, toured Christian colleges and churches in the early 1980s. Panels of ethicists and scholars presented the films, fielding questions from audiences, raising the alarm that, through Christian inattention, Western Civilization had slipped its Judeo-Christian moorings, drifting into a "post-Christian era", under the sway of a secular civil religion that Schaeffer called "secular humanism". The landmark 1972 U.S. Supreme Court decision Roe v Wade served as Schaeffer's iconic portrait of the radical cheapening of human life which he predicted must accompany this cultural shift, producing a culture increasingly bent on self-destruction. His tract, "A Christian Manifesto" called upon Christians to directly resist these influences, in the public sphere. Frederick Clarkson, Sara Diamond, and Chip Berlet say that Schaeffer's philosophically, theologically and politically energized evangelicalism influenced a diverse spectrum of theological conservatives: Jerry Falwell, Timothy LaHaye, John W. Whitehead, and others. Although they represent different theological and political ideas, Dominionists assert a Christian duty to take "control of a sinful secular society" Gosh I have noticed the term "humanist" is practically associated with the anti-christ amongst some here, or that obsession with the "left" "liberals" or "lefty liberals" however these people define this this labelling, the only conclusion I can come to is these terms are used in a derogatory manner, towards anyone that does not agree explicity with what the 'christian/right/dominionists' themselves believe. another good place for info on the dominionist 'christians' http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/Di...mInAmerica.html

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/...y_close_friend/ KABUL, Afghanistan -- President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan gave Iran his full embrace yesterday, saying it has been his country's "very close friend," even as US officials meeting with him here repeated their accusation that Iranian-made weapons were flowing to Taliban fighters. Article Tools Karzai made the remarks at a joint news conference following a meeting with US Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, who was in Afghanistan for nearly 24 hours to meet with US commanders and Afghan officials. Gates said he raised the issue of the Iranian munitions in his meeting with Karzai, but acknowledged that there was no evidence the Iranian government was behind the alleged shipments. When asked whether he believed Tehran, which has been mostly a benign presence in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban, had decided to change course and support its former foes, Karzai gave an impassioned backing for the Iranian government. He called it a force for good inside Afghanistan. that is interesting. The US is demonizing Iran continually and Karzai, calls Iran "a very close friend"?

It's interesting to watch 3 posters fall all over themselves , on there way down. Rue, MDancer, and southerncomfort. Entertaining, and educational, a lesson in forum etiquette, or more accuratley 1. how not to discuss on a political forum, 2.how to show a lack of rational discussion skills, and 3.how to fill up space with nothingness. Bravo to you all! Take a bow!

The Big Valley Creation Science Museum, located in small-town Alberta, is a tiny building that explains evolution, geology and paleontology through a biblical lens. The museum cost $300,000 to build and houses a number of displays that present a Bible-based alternative to evolution. The museum's co-owner Harry Nibourg, says creationism is just another theory that gives more insight into human history. "Evolution, I found, out is a theory, as is creation, but they are both based on face. Neither of us was there," Nibourg told CTV Calgary. http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStorie...n_museum_070605 You can watch a video there also. Alberta, Alberta, shakin' my head. 10 steps backwards?

and listen to Fred Phelps grandaughters. Yikes! from a skynews report makes one's head spin.

give a watch to this one. little kids carrying signs "god hates fags" wanna talk about teaching kids to hate? Under the guise of religion and the bible.

NO and NO. Everyone get out of the sandbox now. lol and take your toys with you!!!!!

Must be why men watch?! Man could those skirts get any shorter. Wondering when they uncross there legs, do they flash a little skin, for the dirty old men viewers. What's amazing depsite, the obvious "sex sells" factor, is that anyone watches Fox news, for the news. Or do they just make that claim?

The accusation about the Jews was that they were too successful economically, politically and socially. I am making exactly the opposite argument about the radical Muslims. Perhaps that is why, when people are unaware, or think that was the case , they use the language that they do. Without realizing it is the language of propaganda. The Jewish people were subjected to far greater propaganda derision, then you are aware, or are letting on, I don't know. Propaganda was delivered, via the media, speeches, and in churches, just like today. Everything about Jews was derided, there appearance, there clothes, there living quarters, there practices, everything, they were repeatedly presented as "threats to Western Culture" Today it is Muslims that get this constant barrage of derision, about everything, there clothes, there customs, there religions, there practices, and there alleged threat to Western Culture. What absolutely amazed me beside the fact that I actually saw someone say "The Muslim problem" was that I was the only one, who caught that nasty bit of propaganda. The alleged supporters of Jewish people ( who are really the users of Jewish people), let that one go right on by. I wrote to the moderator of the forum, wrt the use and dissemination of propaganda, but, it seems quite accptable here, Failure to recognize propaganda, and repeatedly promulgating derision/ of a group of people is problematic. In fact the Nazi regime used propaganda effectively to mobilize the German population to support its wars of conquest until the very end of the regime. sound at all familiar??

That would not be a first on this forum given the use of the term "the Muslim problem" drop Muslim, put Jew in it's place and you have Hitler's rhetoric, which I pointed out to sharkman( who was the one who said this) at that time.

I thought it was quite funny

Why was a first secretary in a British embassy in Paris in position to know about anything? More importantly, why was someone in the Arab European parliamentary association - his contact that told him this - in position to know anything? The only reason you are lending credence to this decades old bullshit is because it fits in with your own hatreds and bigotry. Could you quote me where I said anything hateful, post it here, I want to see it. provide a link and all, I'll wait, not patiently though. Put your money where your extremely rude and large mouth is? Back your aspersions up, or look foolish? Or be intelligent, if you are capable , retract and apologize, for the garbage you put forth. as for your own hatred and bigotry, this was but one example of your gall. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=9095 "should shooting beggars be allowed? They're dirty, often violent, and quite frankly, a waste of skin tissue. I am sure there are more hateful and bigoted comments that you have made. That made quite an impression. You made a comment about IQ's here, I would suggest that based on your behaviour ,and "ability" to discuss subjects in a rational, measured manner, yours is below average.

to confront the westboro baptist church and their leader Fred Phelps. http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/71693/M..._Baptist_Church hoping we all have high speed. This is about 4 minutes long, and it's flamboyant. ;-)

How telling..... ... Telling? Yes, it tells us that M.Dancer is willing utter malicious lies and distortions in service of his campaign of stalking and character assassination. Unfortunately M Dancer isn't the only or even the worst promoter of "utter malicious lies and distortions in service of his campaign of stalking and character assassination."

Your posts is filled with half-truths and utter drivel, so I will only address the fact, that had you read,what I wrote, at all??!! which understandabley and demonstrabley is difficult for you. I did not "single out Israel" WRT the lavon affair, it Israel that was using terrorism to affect political change. "The story begins when the United States began pressuring the British to withdraw from the Suez Canal and leave Egypt, something the U.K. eventually agreed to do. Israel was strongly opposed to British withdrawal, as it feared this would remove a check on Egyptian President Gamal Abdul Nasser . But diplomatic methods failed to sway the British. And so, in the summer of 1954 Colonel Benyamin Gibli, the chief of Israel's army intelligence, intiated Operation Susannah in order to reverse that decision. The plan called for bombing British and American facilities in Egypt, with the intent that they would be attributed to the Egyptian government, to show what a "threat" it posed." Therefore Israel launched false flag attacks, to frame Egypt, to affect a decision made, that they were not amenable to, in a nutshell. In the process they killed American, Brits and Egyptians. All your ridiculous over the top, foolish rhetoric, doesn't change the facts. Whatever reasons they used to justify their actions, they still perpetuated a false flag operation, killing innocent people, for there own gain. So move along and please take your nonsense with you!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/06/04/khadr-charges.html The charges against Omar Khadr, the only Canadian being held in the U.S. military's Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, have been dropped. Khadr, 20, had been facing charges of murder and terrorism, and was scheduled to be tried before a U.S. military commission in Cuba. He was to be arraigned on Monday. Khadr was accused of killing an American medic five years ago as U.S. marines fought against al-Qaeda militants in Afghanistan. this will be interesting to follow, what will be forthcoming, a lack evidence?

The link is messed up: http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/8463/Leo+McKinstry It's a rant more than anything. You see, no action is to ever be taken against Israel's actions in the occupied territories. Whether it be peaceful - such as both the academic boycott and the trade unions' boycotts, the peaceful demonstrations which occur weekly in B'Lin or any other kind of non violent protest. It is all anti-semitism! Nothing to do with the illegal settlements, land confiscations, bulldozing houses, targetting civilians, the radical right settlers, the Wall... nope - it's all just plain old anti-semitism and of course all Israelis and Jews are innocent victims as always. *sniff* "War Now!!" Kahane name calling/smear/demonisation to associate a topic, with a negative association and preclude rational discussion.