madmax

One dinner is about the Liberals, the others is about the local issues.

Liberal talking points. The public votes and the Conservatives won an election in spite of Stephen Harpers best efforts. Some people blame Martin for calling an early election and surrending the Liberal Majority for a Liberal Minority. Wanna blame that on the NDP too? Martin orchestred himself into a Minority government and then painted himself into a corner. It was the Liberals who were unable to negotiate their way around the sponsership scandal and the theft of the publics confidence. There is no one short of a Liberal Partizan spewing nonsense that would suggest that the NDP elected a Conservative government. If you are going to blame anyone you have TWO good choices to blame. Jean Chretian and Paul Martin. Their failures led to the election of the Conservatives as people were no longer comfortable with the fox in the henhouse and the public choose to give the CPC an opportunity to govern on a short leash. Infact the Liberals have continued to influence government as they have supported the Harper Conservatives every step along the way. One could argue that the Minority government from 2006 to 2009 has been a CPC/LPC government as the CPC have turned to no other party for support during this time. The CPC have done what it takes to maintain that Liberal support, not once having faced a confidence motion, and even getting the Liberals to end their threat of challenging the government in November of 2008 to the period of acceptance of the Conservative Agenda in 2009. That includes support for all those December Patronage Appointments.... LOL.

IIRC the NDP and the LPC signed a written agreement to form a coalition government with a set agenda. Mr. Ignatieff signed this document, and tossed it into the waste bucket, to go his own way. If I have to pick principles, of all the parties, it is the Liberals that have the fewest and it is the reason the public allows them so much slack. It is expected that the Liberals have no principles, just the desire to govern and hold government. The Conservatives have principles and thus it is a bigger wave of anger when they toss them aside, which they are prone to do. The NDP of all the parties has the most principles and it is in the Liberals interest to create the illusion that the NDP doesn't have any. Obviously the NDP has a criteria that if accepted will earn their support. The Liberals held no criteria to support the Conserative Government. The Conservatives have no interest in supporting any of the NDP agenda. The Liberals could support some of the NDP agenda if it would get them to the promised land. Regardless, the two parties that have some leverage, the BQ and the NDP are outvoted and not supported as the Liberals have been voting with the Conservatives close to 100 times in a row. When the Liberals choose not to support the government, the Conservatives will have to look for another dance partner, and quite frankly, the CPC vision has only been pallatable to Liberals. The biggest problem the Current Liberals have is that Ignatieff is to the right of Stephen Harper. While he thinks he is a Liberal or stands for Canadian Values, it is apparent his time in the US has greatly affected his vision. Few Canadians would support torture or Pre Emptive or Imperial Warfare. That puts Ignatieff up on the elitists page and to the right of Harper. I believe the NDP has principles that do not involve pre emptive war, or support for torture.

No confidence in a failing government that has already announced that the situation is so untenable that it is pulling the plug on itself. The fact is, Martin was a piss poor strategist once he achieved power. The Liberals and their supporters have a tendency to deny that they stole a shitload of money from the public purse, where embedded with Scandal, and their Leader was still trying to jab knives in the back of Chretian and his remaining loyalists. This was all about Paul Martin and the failure to retain government falls in no one elses hands but his own. Paul Martin stage managed the fall of his government and couldn't manage to retain government. It is in Liberals best interest to try to rewrite history to the masses. But it will not be true.

Good for New Zealand... LOL.

Once all the Provinces start arguing, and they will. You can rest assured only two choices will be viable and as public exasperation continues, the decision to abolish the Senate will become the most popular and accepted choice. BTW... Senate talk is something that comes up each and everytime there is a round of appointments. Then these threads go back in time and disappear until the next round of patronage...

From Hansard in May 2009, 3rd Session 39 Legislature. That is also the position of the Manitoba NDP and the government.

I wouldn't, which is why Senate Reform as Triple E vs Abolishment is a very bad choice.

YUP. in fact Canadians in favour of abolishing the Senate will have a much easier time of it, then this group. http://abolishthesenate.org/ In the US. In the past, B.C.'s Gordon Campbell, Manitoba's Gary Doer, Ontario's Dalton McGuinty, and Saskatchewan's Lorne Calvert have said they favour doing away with the Senate. And Alberta's Ralph Klein is totally dissatisfied with the Senate as it exists, wanting Harper to appoint his province's elected senators-in-waiting to the chamber as soon as possible.

The democractic elected body of the house, should be the supreme governing body and without being 2nd guessed by an appointed or elected Senate. A triple E Senate purpose is designed to End Run the HOC. To undermine the will of the people and their elected MPs. We can fix the HOC a heck of alot easier then we can shape or reform the Senate.

First of all, the Provinces got rid of their own Senates and the sky didn't fall. Second, as this article covers, Senate Reform will take an already unbalanced Senate, and create more imbalance amongst the Provinces. It is why it is a non starter among many Provincial Leaders, past and present. This article covers the period after the last round of Senate Appointments and suggests that more of the same was coming.

I have only heard that the NDP and the PCs are fighting against the tax. The PCs having the difficulties of talking out both sides of their mouths, when having to discuss with their Federal Cousins.The Liberals are not backing down on the HST and continue to move it forward in the by election.

That should give you a hint on how honest and open Senate Reforms would be. The goal is to create an illusion of democracy. Nor should the Senate become another level of government. Countries that have elected Senates, also have movements to abolish them.

1) yes he can 2) No abolishing the Senate easier to accomplish then changing the Senate role. Provinces abolished their Senates and continued to function. 3) The reason to abolish the Senate is because Status quo is not acceptable. Senate Reform will prove to be as enjoyable an experience as Meech Lake and Charlottetown. It will create more internal wrangling, and likely lead to a constitutional crises. Short of Senators, few would miss the Senate.

Good choice. I see you as one on the side of corporate crime, and they do punish corporate criminals in the US.

Damn your quick.... LOL...

Then he could follow through on the next step that he indicated was an option. Abolish the Senate.

Provinces support the Abolition of the Senate. Its the land of patronage and a phoney election to create the illusion of democracy is absurd.

It reads like they are distancing themselves from the questionable actions of Dana Larson. From what I have read on other forums is that the NDP has a policy of not treating pot smokers like convicts. Also, it appears that there is some acceptance of some of Mr. Larsons message if not Mr. Larson. It's difficult to create or repair a political career when one needs to address controversial videos. Regardless, most of my friends and aqaintences that are big time pot smokers are rural Conservatives.

Then, to be fair, the best way to make certain everyone pays for their goods and SERVICES is to apply the Tobin Tax on investment transactions. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

With virtual no immigration compared to Canada. McGuinty was for a voucher system, and it was Liberal Strategists that jumped upon the policy that the PCs were backing in a Campaign. However, the Liberals have since chosen to give Public Funds to the tune of $2.7 Million so that a private school can have a DOMED soccer stadium. The voucher system is a very bad idea. The voucher system has helped to create segregation in southern US states, by allowing private schools to do the discrimination that public schools are not allowed to do. The Southern Public schools became a place for the Negro Population and the Private Schools for the whites with a handful of Negro's so as to not look totally racist.

I prefer to see Dog On a Porch kept on a short leash because he bites. But either monkeyman is a caricature pushing the envelope with a desire to get banned, or a serious poster in need of muzzle.

The real reason why the CPC appointed so many hacks. A top Conservative strategist, speaking on background, dismissed public backlash to the Senate appointments "I just don't think people care," Because they can....

Here is the Angus Reid. Con 34% (+1) Lib 30% (-4) NDP 18% (+2) BQ 8% (-2) Tories have 4 point lead OTTAWA — Over the summer Canadians warmed up to Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Conservative party, according to the latest Toronto Star/Angus Reid poll. However, regional disparities continue to be story as the Conservatives struggle to get anywhere near majority territory of about 40 per cent. The survey conducted Aug. 25 and 26, shows that 34 per cent of decided voters — up 1 percentage point from July — would vote for the Conservatives compared to 30 per cent for the Liberals, down 4 percentage points since July.

Harper moves his bagman and party hacks into the Senate and gets them off the Conservative Party payroll and onto the public payroll.