Accountability Now

Sorry....don't let facts get in the way of your issues.

The implication is healthy children. So if you want to focus on the exception and not the rule then please be my guest although the onus is on you to state as such. How could I have glossed over it when I was the one that provided that quote. FFS!! The balance COULD shift...but it hasn't. Don't try to make a certainty from a possibility. The certainty involved in that sentence is there is no urgency to immunize children from a medical perspective. The possibility....is one of many. At the time the JCVI made this claim, vulnerable children were already approved to get the jab so they weren't apart of the conversation. This discussion and their claim was then in reference to all remaining children where they most certainly recommended not to get it. They did not recommend it because the benefits were MARGINALLY greater than the potential harms. Not sure if you understand how medicine works but marginally beneficial means nothing! The only reason they went ahead and vaccinated this group was to reduce transmission....which as has been shown is a moot point now as it is clear that the 'vaccine' does nothing to prevent omicron. FFS! No...my position is that kids generally don't need this vaccine for their individual health benefit. There are a very small subset that may benefit from it but that doesn't mean that all kids should get it. That is precisely what the JVCI was stating. Personally if a parent want to vaccinate their kid and achieve a marginal benefit at the risk of other complications, then go for it. That's why its a free country. But don't force that choice down every parent's throats when then evidence is clear are risks. No one is forcing me to do what? Have an opinion? I haven't lied about one thing here. The numbers and statements I have presented on this forum are objective and easily discussed. The fact that you can't rebut them leads you to strawman arguments and deflections from the original point. You have no argument so you try to find semantical differences to defend your point. Quite sad really.

I thought you said this was the first you’ve heard of it? I guess you glossed over the part where he also says: “On balance, there is no urgency to immunise children from a medical perspective, although if schools are unable to maintain education for the vast majority at all times, the overall balance could shift.” You also glossed over the part where the JCVI (aka “the science”) advised against vaccinating kids and yet the politicians went and did it anyway. But listen to the science you say?? Nope. I maintain my position that I’ve had from the beginning. People at risk, whether you are old or young, should get the vaccine. We’ve known for a while who these people are. If you want to jab you’re healthy kid with something that might hurt them then you do that but don’t force that shit on me or coerce anyone else thinking you are actually helping when ‘science’ proves you are not

First you’ve heard of it because you don’t actually know anything on the subject yet you choose to engage in arguments on said topic. Here’s a read for you if you care to ‘hear of something’. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

So what did you tell your kids when science came out and said kids have more of a chance being hospitalized from the jab than from Covid?

Telling kids not to vaccinate against Covid is one of the worst ideas on the planet? This is why you might want to actually understand information so you can process thoughts other than what JT is cramming in your head.

Ya…makes sense. I completely understand why you come on a discussion forum and not have any ideas of your own. ?

So back to the original point…why should kids get the jab when an unvaccinated grandkid is just as likely to pass on Covid than the vaccinated grandkid? The vaccine is doing nothing to stop transmission so the only person you’re possibly helping is yourself. If that’s the case then why would kids take a jab that has just as much (if not) more chance of hospitalizing them than Covid does?

Might want to hold on to that claim as they aren’t certain of that even at this point. I mean transmission is no longer on the table but it could be soon shown that hospitalizations aren’t helped with vaccination either

What’s going to be your next talking point now that it’s obvious Omicron spreads in the vaccinated as much as unvaccinated?

That's what I find interesting about the Omicron variant. See, before it came along we were following the UK's path such that first the vaccine stopped protecting from infection and then it stopped protecting from hospitalizations and deaths. About 4 months after the UK had their second doses, their hospitalizations were 50/50 split for all ages but a staggering 78% double vaxxed for those over 50 (the demographic that matters most). Deaths were also overwhelmingly with the double vaxxed as well since most people in that age group were vaxxed. This proved that the vaccines waned. Even if Omicron hadn't hit us, the percentages would start switching anyway simply because of this waning effect. Add Omicron now that really evades the vaccines and you have immediate switching for cases but its unclear for hospitalizations. The point to all this is two fold: 1. Vaccines wane which is why they are pushing so heavily for boosters 2. You really need to stop polarizing the issue between vaxxed and unvaxxed and realize the real dichotomy is between young/healthy versus old/pre-existing conditions.

I think you are missing their point. If 20% of all people are accounting for 66.7% of hospital cases then that's not good. Conversely, 29.5% of cases are coming from 80% of the people. This is why that normalize those number in using a cases per 100k so you can compare apples to apples. With that said, the hospitalizations you see now are still remnants of Delta. I'm curious to see if these numbers reverse with Omicron. We know the cases have, such that 80% of the cases are coming from the vaxxed who represent 80% of the population. When those two numbers match then you know the vaccine is doing nothing to prevent transmission.

You are right. The historical sense of a vaccine was that you just didn't get the disease or if you did then it was so mild that you wouldn't even notice. To be fair, the vast majority of cases among the vaxxed right now are just that however we are testing everywhere so we are catching more. With that said, they did change the definition of vaccine with Covid. Literally. When they did that, they also moved the goal posts to say it would prevent severe illness.

Agreed. The goal posts certainly have moved a bunch.

Alberta is at 73% vaccination of its entire population and is now logging 81% of the total cases. I don't know if its leaky vaccine like you say or more that they are the ones in group settings and therefore spreading this thing like wildfire. Either way....ultimately cases don't matter, hospitalizations do. If the hospitalizations go up and we see the percentages stay the same then we can truly say the vaccine is a bust. But if they go up and its only in unvaxxed then the vaccines are doing what they say they will do which is prevent severe illness. If hospitalizations don't go up at all then its a win all around as we should open the doors for good and call an end to this thing.

@Boges Yesterday's Covid percentage of cases that were fully vaxxed was 70%. Today its 72%. I think those arcs on the graph will be converging soon. Edit...today's numbers are now 74%.

The sarcasm is strong with this earthling.

You’re not really aware of who you’re talking to. Are you? Booster jab? I haven’t even had the first jab. Maybe read a little before you do your gaslighting

If this number is true than that means 1600 cases are Delta now. That would be double the wave you had in September but with vaccines that waned a few months more. Curious to see if that will be a factor in hospitalizations. Also curious to see if there is a difference between who gets what variant (ie unvaxxed are more prone to get Delta and vaxxed are more prone for Omicron). Truthfully though, I think the true Omicron percentage is more like 80%. The rapid rise in Quebec and Ontario suggest it but I'm just spitballing. Agreed but the only caveat is that they know the vaccines wane over 5-6 months. That time frame is creeping up for a bunch of Ontarians so they need to drive the fear home in order for them to get their booster.

I had seen this part and like I said, I don't know if this data is up to date or not. I think why it may be off is they use a 7 day average where as I am looking at individual days. Up until recently, these charts made sense as vaccinated people were making up 20-30% of the cases although they make up 80% of the population. In the recent days they are making up 60-65% of the cases. As I said earlier, the thing to watch is the change in percentage of cases. It was 60, then 65 and now today its 68. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-reports-significant-jump-in-covid-19-infections-with-more-than-3-000-new-cases-1.5711426 Those arcs that you are referring to should be getting closer and will ultimately match when 77% of the cases are vaccinated. When that happens you can legitimately say the vaccine is doing nothing to stop infection although it may still stop severe infection. According to your snapshot, yes but today's data is already showing that the 20-29 year olds are increasing as your statement about being double no longer applies. Of course these fluctuations happen when you break out smaller demographics which is why we might want to look at larger groups. For all resolved cases, the age groups 0-59 made up 84% of the cases. The new active cases have that group at 89% based on todays link. This increase that more younger people have caught Covid as of recent but is the 5% uptick that relevant? Maybe. Wait and see what hospitalizations look like in 3 weeks to know for sure. Have you seen what percentage of cases in Ontario are Omicron. I thought I had seen something about 20% but that doesn't make sense. I was looking this morning but couldn't find anything.

First off...not sure how up to date their data is. When you click on Cases by Age, the data is only up to Nov 28. Having said that, you need to look at the rate of change. In the last month, the cases per 100k have doubled for the unvaxxed but quadrupled for the vaxxed. Vaxxed cases were consistently lower than the partially vaxxed and now it looks like they are going to surpass that and could possibly catch the unvaxxed. I haven't had much change other than having to get rapid tests. Life is pretty much normal for me other than not being able to get on a plane. Nazi Germany...no but even my pro vaxx friends here admit that the idea of vaccine passports six months ago was conspiracy theory....now here we are. Do you have a citation to support the 2/3 claim? I'd agree with you if this is true. The youth have disproportionally carried the cases for all of Covid but I haven't hear 2/3 for new cases. If the hospitals remain quiet then we all win. If hospitals fill with unvaxxed then people will be happy to get boosters. But if they fill with vaxxed then X percent of those people will view the booster and the mandates as a waste of time. Personally I am pulling for the first option.

Actually 77% but who's counting. Cases on Wednesday had 60% fully vaxxed, yesterday was 63%....I suspect this will keep climbing as Omicron takes over from Delta. Eventually this could be 77% or even higher. At that point it will be conclusive that the vaxx is doing nothing to stop this. Maybe people rush out to get the booster but again, X percent will say F it. You really think that not letting unvaxxed into a Leafs game or a restaurant is stopping people from living their lives? Unvaxxed kids are still going to school. Unvaxxed workers are still going to work. Hell...unvaxxed nurses and doctors are still in hospitals. Your point is really naïve as you make it seem like the only way to catch covid is at a Leafs game. Hospitalizations lag infections by 2-3 weeks and 2-3 weeks ago Ontario's daily covid cases were around 600 with 40% of those cases fully vaxxed. Today those daily cases have tripled and 63% of the cases are now fully vaxxed. I guess we will wait and see what the ICU numbers look like in that time.

I have always laughed at the way you use the term 'forced'. Sure, no one is holding anyone down to get the jab but people are being coerced into doing something they really don't want to. People had the choice of losing their jobs, feeding their families, etc OR getting the jab. In many cases that is being forced. Of course you have no problem mocking those people because you have no problem sticking the needle in your arm. Actually they're not. People got behind the mandates because the case and hospital numbers supported it. The majority of the cases are among the vaxxed now, so that support will wane. In fact the reason omicron is in Canada is from fully vaccinated people flying back home with it. If anything, Omicron has shed light on the holes your glorious vaccine has. I think the numbers in Ontario today had 60% of the cases being fully vaxxed and the answer....well those two shots you won't work but that third one is the magic ticket. Even if they are right, people are starting to see through the BS.

I don't live in Ontario so I definitely can't speak for Ontarians however the vast majority of Ontarians I speak with said they will never get the booster. With that said, they also claimed they would never get the vaccine to begin with and they did. The reality is that if 90% got two shots then its almost a guarantee that X percent will not get the third and then another X percent will not get the 4th, and so on. I think if hospitalizations don't go up then you will have a higher number X percent not getting the shot especially when they see that 60% or higher of the cases are fully vaxxed.

Actually there has been more research pointing towards these mutations occurring in immunocompromised patients. (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb2104756) I would assume that most immunocompromised patients are vaccinated, at least in the western world. Which leads me to the next point, we can vaccinate all we want in Canada, Europe and other 1st world countries but unless you get to Africa and other poorer countries, then we can expect these mutants to keep popping up.