Cameron

A good background article by Andrew Coyne Article Points to ponder from the article: 1 - EMD is not a Canadian company, and never was. Caterpillar bought it from a pair of American private equity firms in 2010; they bought it from General Motors in 2005, who bought it from its Ohio-based founders in 1930. Since 1935 it has been headquartered in La Grange, Illinois. The London branch plant was opened in 1950. 2 - Caterpillar didn’t buy the London plant. It bought the whole company, including its La Grange operations, which is where EMD does its design and engineering work, as well as making parts. Incidentally, as the economist Michael Moffatt points out, GM moved all final assembly work to London from La Grange shortly after the Free Trade Agreement went into effect. The jobs we’re worried about losing to the States are jobs we took from them. 3 - EMD never received any subsidies from the federal government; certainly not since Caterpillar bought it. The Harper visit to which Olive refers was to promote a tax break for the purchasers of locomotives, not the manufacturers. The visit occurred in 2008, two years before the Caterpillar purchase. And to amend my past argument in regards to the Investment Canada Act: It’s not clear how the foreign investment laws could have been invoked to cover a purchase of an American company by another American company Interesting points to ponder going forward. Here is EMD's final offer to their employees: Link Their wages were in four categories: $16.50/18.00/20.00/22.00 and skilled trades were at $34.00 So they were not ALL going to be reduced to $16/hour.

This entire thread is irrelevant. CAT didn't want to keep the plant open. This was a move to close it down. This whole ordeal goes back to the Investment Canada Act. So, stop wasting your breath on tax breaks and write your MP about making changes to the ICA.

As per the STAR article, the $5 million was given to EMD BEFORE CAT bought the plant.

PC/Conservative since 2001. Why do I hold a membership you ask? Because of the system in Canada. I get to vote on who will lead the Conservative party in the future. Without one, I'm just another voter on the outside looking in. Does this mean I'm ecstatic about the decisions the party makes? NEEEOOOOO! Some decisions are good and some are just downright dumb. For myself here in Halifax, it gives me the chance to work for a candidate that we (local membership) want to try and get elected, and also help with the behind-the-scenes work during non-elections years to prep for future elections. We also do our fair share of bitching internally.

For all the hot air opposition members are spewing, I'm waiting for a private members bill that would amend the Investment Canada Act. Lets wait and see.

Here is what Ken Lewenza has to say about it. The Investment Canada Act should maybe looked at to see if more protection to Canadian workers could be offered. Now, this is what angers me the most. Being a member of this useless union (their Airlines divsion), they are always beating the war drums. Always. On one had Mr. Lewenza wants changes to the Act, then on the other he berates the Prime Minister. Why would the government ever want to listen to what the CAW has to say if they are going to do nothing but criticize and talk down to them. I find that far too often it's a one-way street with unions. Link The big point about this release, is that the CAW suspected CAT wanted to close down the plant anyways. So what did they actively do to try and avert that decision?

Article I saw this coming from a distance. CAT wanted to get the concessions and they didn't, so they will now close the plant and move it. There is a lot of venom being spewed towards Harper, but I think we have to break this problem down. I find big unions (CUPE, CAW) do not have a relationship with an executive branch of a company. In the London Ont. case, I don't know what was said when EMD was being taken over by CAT. Did the union stop and say, "is this the best idea, what will CAT do, what are they after?". We have to go back to the laws that govern international take-overs and what provisions are in place to keep jobs in Canada. Was the EMD plant a poor performer compared to other divisions of CAT? Was CAT being offered incentives by US states to move the plant or set up a similar operation? You obviously can't make a company stay in Canada if they want to move. The tax breaks were offered by the government to companies buying locomotives from EMD as well as a general tax break. This was either not enough to keep them around or as I said before, CAT had other intentions.

So. We can throw previous governments under the blame-bus as well as the Quebec government for putting up money to keep the mine running. Why is this only making news NOW. What about 10-20 years ago? Why was it allowed to operate for so long? Could Harper be a leader and ban it. Yes. Should we run him over with the blame-bus. No.

Since I live in Halifax, I can tell you the fence it normally up and around the Navy yard. They also have an armed patrol boat to give added protection. The nets are only so long, so when a ship comes into port they have to make adjustments, which might mean leaving one ship un-netted. The buffer between the ships and the net is pretty big when they are up.

How original, Rick.

So very true! Listen Topaz. We are in the thick of it now. These things are coming and if we cancel now we'd be years behind. There is not much the government can do now except make a note not to purchase from Sikorsky in the future. Even the 101 has(d) problems with it's components. Alos, this is a variant of the Cougar helicopter that crashed because of gearbox problems. Nothing is perfect. The Liberals signed the deal for this helicopter, which I will point out was a paper helicopter at the time, so we have to suck it up.

That's how that group operates.

One of the problems with regards to unions and companies is the combative approach unions take towards companies and the government. Unions seem to take a "us vs. them" approach and it's no wonder they get nowhere with companies or the government. I find unions shoot first and ask questions later. With the Air Canada dispute, threatening to shut down the airline was a mistake. You have to take into account of what's at stake and make plans that are progressive. Don't just blast away and then act shocked because the government intervenes. 2012 will be much like 2011. That's what I say.

I did a search for Navistar and Topaz came up as usual. Can you provide links to what you are talking about? Because my caring level is low and I didn't find anything online about it.

Why can't people see this! The government is giving customers money back to buy products, as well as give the company a tax break. It seems CAT has ulterior motives....

I'd also like to point out the the BIG UNION ( ) always seems to be tashing the governemnt. I am part of the CAW, so I see the material. Why in hell would a governemt lift a finger for any Union in Canada when they spit so much vennom towards the Governemnt. Then, out of the side of their mouth ask for the governement to help and intervene.

That's a point I'd like to pick at. There are no gurantees that a division is going to stay in Canada. If a company agrees, let's say for a bailout, to keep their plant in Canada, what is to REALLY stop them from packing it up a year or two later and dealing with the matter in court. There are no guarantees that a company will stay in Canada. NONE. If you what to go down the protectionism path, then you are shooting yourself in the other foot. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

You people like to pick and choose what you bitch about. This HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TAX BREAKS. CAT obviously doesn't want to do business in Canada and this looks like a union busting move to move the plant south. If they DIDN'T give any tax breaks they would probably want to move anyways. What this does (did) is encourage buyers to buy from this plant. So if they move it south, THEY WON'T GET THE TAX BREAKS (company and customers)! They didn't give them any money, only guarantees to customers who bought locomotives and a broader tax break to companies across Canada. Pull your collective heads out of your a**es.

What do all your people propose the government do? About the corporate taxes. You say companies sit on their revenue when taxes are low. What do you think they will do if you raise them? Probably the same thing they are doing now, constrict their business in Canada and move it.

All this is useless. In four years the only thing people will remember is Justin calling Peter a POS.

We are so cheap in Canada

Do people know enough about our PM's to actually give an educated response? PET has had probably the most media coverage in modern times to dilute the pool of knowledge. I vote Borden.

In tomorrows news, Tony Clement spends $1.50 on a pack of gum from a vending machine when he could have gotten three for two dollars on the Hasty. The Toronto Star will round this to $6,000. Then the Globe and Mail will misprint it as Euros. Then by the time Peter Mansbridge puts on his suit pants tonight it will be $12,000, and Bob Rae will be screaming at the Queen to overthrow the government.

What's the precedent of past governments accrediting opposition members to attend functions such as this?

That's not a scandal, that's government business. 5K total for six nights isn't that bad. Pretty good for Munich from what I remember.