Canadian Blue

Check out the forums at army.ca and you'll see were many members of the CF stand on Afganistan. GH then the story would imply that the majority of families are against the Afgan mission which they probable are not. Even in the CF their are people on both sides of the issue, but for the most part the CF is conservative and so far supports what we are doing over there.

I might not be a big city lawyer, but I've got nothing to back up what I'm talking about. But do any of you have proof to say that what I'm saying can't be backed up. Honestly Ladyjen, really, thats one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. When people say oh its plain old common sense you know their idiots. Thats probably what white guys said during segregation as well. Well their coloured and were white, those two just don't mix its common sense. The tories in Ontario also had a common sense revolution, but by the end of it I didn't really see any of the common sense in it.

Buddy, its not an excellent analysis. Really what credentials do you have to back that up. You have a bit of a high impression of yourself. What experience has given you that idea. As for the CBSA, I guess we can wait till a bunch of border guards get killed manning their posts since thats what it usually takes to get the Liberals to address an issue. The union representing the CBSA has repeatedly said they need firearms so they are not forced to flee their posts. What makes you arrogant is more or less you believe your superior to your fellow Canadian's, due to the fact your a left wing Liberal. You can't come to grips with the idea that people might have different political values than you, so you believe they are either stupid, ignorant, or thoughtless. With responses such as W/E, which I can take a guess means whatever, you don't want to respond because you see the hypocrisy in your own arguments. The only people that say whatever, are people that have been proven wrong. How Stupid Am I, well I joined the miliary right out of high school instead of doing post secondary so you can read into that anyway you want. What life experiences do you have, let me ask you this do you have any experience in politics? As for whether or not I questioned whether voting for the conservatives would be a mistake. Of course, I was afraid that cuts would be to deep, deficits if taxes were cut too much. But so far neither has really come into effect. WHAT MAKES YOU ARROGANT IS YOUR SIMPLISTIC VIEW OF THE WORLD, AND BELIEVING YOU ARE A SUPERIOR HUMAN BASED ON IGNORANCE AND PRIDE. AS WELL I'VE BEEN TRYING TO POINT OUT THAT JUST BECAUSE YOUR A LEFT WINGER DOESN'T MAKE ALL OF THOSE ON THE RIGHT INFERIOR OR IGNORANT. IN ORDER FOR A CIVIL SOCIETY TO REMAIN CIVIL IS FOR ALL SIDES TO BELIEVE EACH IS AN EQUAL IN REGARDS TO THOUGHT, EXPRESSION, AND SPEECH. WHAT CREDENTIALS AND EXPERIENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT MAKES YOUR EXCELLENT ASSESSMENT CORRECT? WHAT CREDENTIALS AND EXPERIENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT MAKES YOUR EXCELLENT ASSESSMENT CORRECT? WHAT CREDENTIALS AND EXPERIENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT MAKES YOUR EXCELLENT ASSESSMENT CORRECT? May I reference you to this post by the moderator. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....mp;#entry145907 Despite trying to have a civilized debate you continue on about this whole idea that all conservative voters are ignorant, and self interested. Which is probably not true.

So are you asking conservatives for proof the conservatives haven't been corrupt. Now I might not be a big city lawyer, but what evidence is their that the people in this court room other then the accused didn't commit the murder. But then again your province had a corrupt NDP government, I lived in a province with a conservative government and never noticed anything terrible happening their. Listen its all relative, I live in a province with a decent New Democrat government, a province with a good conservative government. So far I've lived in 5 different provinces, and to be honest with you never really noticed much of a difference between any of them. All politicians are cut of the same clothe in todays world. I haven't seen a huge shift since the conservatives have gotten in power and I work for the government. Give us the inside scoop deep throat!!!

Black Dog, I believe he kicked an MP in Manitoba out of Caucus for saying her constituents wanted her to vote against same sex marriage. Pretty well every party in Canada has a top down approach, thats the only way to lead successfully in Canada. Look at what happened to Reform when they were run from the bottom up.

Allright I'll tell you why I voted for the tories. 1. Raising the age of consent to 16 2. Keeping the notwithstanding clause a part of the constitution 3. Respecting areas of provincial jurisdiction 4. Bringing forward the Accountability Act, and capping party donations 5. Eliminating the wasteful and useless gun registry 6. Supporting our Canadian military by introducing more money to help troops do the job 7. Support of senate reform 8. Bringing a western voice to government, thus healing the rift between government and the west 9. Supporting the three strikes rule for violent offenders 10. Arming the CBSA, who have an extremely dangerous job 11. Apologizing for the Chinese head tax 12. Eliminating spending which does not serve any benefit to the country As for you, you were completely ignorant about the policy of firearms regarding the CBSA, and the three strikes rule. So you should consider taking a less hypocritical approach towards issues. You can't call people ignorant for voting for policies which even you don't know about. I can just as easily put liberals in a few categories as well: 1. Dope smokers and drug addicts 2. Corrupt businessman who seek contract in order to get political favors 3. Ignorant people But then again, I'm not that stupid. As well you failed to diagnose me, since your the master of political psychology here, why don't you tell me what camp I fall in so I can learn how to get reeducated. Seriously, I've never met a person with such a flawed logic towards politics in general. I'd like to know how any person can get this arrogant. No offense Figleaf, but you are the most arrogant left winger I think their has ever been on this board, since I was on here before. Here's the thing about arrogance and pride, it does nothing to make you better as an individual, open your mind a little bit. Get out of your tiny box, and realize the world is more complex then you think it is.

I wouldn't say all those ideas are bad. PR would be great for Canadian democracy, if PR were to be enacted in Parliment, and the senate were also to be elected people would feel they have a greater say in the decision making process.

Allright then, how about this why don't you admit that the four camps can the go for the entire electorate, as the vast majority is ignorant of whats goes on in politics. Finally, list the policies that you think are wrong headed, and since I voted conservative, I'll tell you why I believed that those policies would help the country. After that, put me in one of the four camps you listed, if you fail to put me in one of those camps then it proves that theory is flawed. As for the Liberals, how many wrongheaded decisions did they make over the past forty years. I'll list a few: -Take away civil liberties during the October Crisis -Disband the once proud Canadian Airborne Regiment due to the actions of a few individuals -Use public money to reward their friends who contributed to their campaign -Alienate Western Canada, and during their tenure Quebec was a few thousand votes away from becoming a country -Oppose Proportional Representation -Take away the "Notwithstanding Clause" thus taking away the power of the legislative branch and putting it in the hands of 9 unelected judges all chosen by the PM -Waste one billion dollars on a gun registry that hasn't worked -Bring in a 300 billion dollar debt, which was later made larger by Brian Mulroney -NEP, which resulted in the destruction of Alberta's economy I am more then aware of the damage done by Tories as well. However I am bringing this up to show you how wrongheaded the Liberals have been as well. I remember talking to a Liberal once, and when I brought up the sponsorship program his response was this, "Whats wrong with it, thats good business!". Same with another liberal supporter that smoked weed nonstop, and another one voting liberal because thats how his parents vote. Would it then be fair for myself to say all liberals are either drug addicts, corrupt, ignorant, and thoughtless.

I try to explain it, but its not as simple as putting it into four camps. For example how would you respond to somebody who said they felt they had to vote conservative in order for the age of consent to be higher. That was one of the reasons I voted conservative, and you even said that you were unaware of some of the conservatives policies regarding justice, so how can you say they made the wrong choice. No, you simply be mature and realize that they have their own reasons for voting that way. Allright you have your way of thinking which is pretty well 100% Liberal, and believe thats the best way to run the country. Conservatives have their way of thinking, and have their reasons why they think their system is the best way of running the country. Same with any other political ideology. However you seem to believe that all left wing voters are the only ones who seem to have great thinking power. Thats elitism. Do you see where I'm getting at, and elitism rarely ever results in anything positive happening in society. Everybody has differences in politics which is why western society is so great. You can believe the other policies are inferior of course, however in your case you are saying the people who vote right of center of inferior to those who vote on the left. Do you see what I'm getting at, your saying nearly 1/3 of Canadian's are inferior Canadian's based on one of the four camps you listed. Imagine if people were to buy into that line of thinking, especially irrational people. If all people believed conservatives only voted for self-interest, stupidity, and arrogance, then irrational people would get to thinking maybe those conservatives should be put in their place. Your thinking in terms of absolute truths, truth is rarely absolute. By the way have you figured out which camp I'm in of the four you listed, I'm planning on voting New Democrat provincially and Conservative federally so its a bit of a paradox???

I think it still depends on who the leader is. The provincial ND's were able to win nearly 30% of the vote in conservative Alberta despite the name. When Garth Turner went back to his riding some constituents wanted him to work with the Greens, some to compromise with the conservatives, and virtually none to join the Liberals. http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...265&k=89000

An NDP/Green opposition would be great for the country. I actaully found out that I agree with quite a proportion of the NDP's policies, however the problem right now is their leadership. With the right leader the NDP could form a successful government, someone like Gary Doer would do well. The NDP also has to allow MP to vote freely on votes of conscious and allow pro-lifers some leverage in party politics.

Figleaf, once again people on the right side on the spectrum can debate your points, absolute truths are rarely absolute. I'll admit that alot of right wingers on this site do give a knee jerk reaction, but so do left wingers as well. It contributes nothing to debate here, and looks more like a preschool playground. You can't say that center left policies are absolute, no offense but your treating those liberal policies as religion, something I did myself in the past. Usually with politics I say they made a free choice and have the self awareness to be able to decide who would best serve their country. Your thinking is bordering on authoritarian, they voted this way thus they must be in one of these camps which is inferior to the reasons I voted for my guy. Let me ask you this, if 100% of Canadian's were to vote Liberal, and 100% of American's were to vote democrat, would that be a great day for society or a terrible day for society?

Name the policies which are harmful and why you believe them to be so, and then let conservatives debate you on them. Just to see which of the four camps they falled into. How are they harmful, so far what major harm has been done to the country. I haven't seen any harm done yet, and I work for the federal government. The sky isn't falling. Personally this forum should be about debate, not name calling and childish behavior which mirrors are current politicians which is the reason why many Canadian's don't even bother with politics anymore. 4. On thoughtless individuals, don't you remember your comments saying all conservatives are "thoughtless". I said I voted conservative, yet I think I am perfectly capable of having my own thoughts on issues. I'll paste this a few more times so you can read. 4. On thoughtless individuals, don't you remember your comments saying all conservatives are "thoughtless". I said I voted conservative, yet I think I am perfectly capable of having my own thoughts on issues. 4. On thoughtless individuals, don't you remember your comments saying all conservatives are "thoughtless". I said I voted conservative, yet I think I am perfectly capable of having my own thoughts on issues.

Based on what? Seriously I've met some Liberal voters who have abuse drugs, would it be fair to say all liberals are thus drug addicts. As for being ill advised, you were confused about some of the policies that the conservatives have brought forward. My advice to you is theirs life outside of the Liberal party box, be open minded. Barak Obama one of the possible contenders for president down in the United States has shown respect towards Republican's and conservatives despite political differences. He is as liberal as they come yet realizes something you still do not. Not everything in politics is black and white. I'm not sure if your planning on becoming a politician later on in life, but you'll find out the majority of issues out their aren't necessarily black and white. Whether it be welfare, gay marriage, abortion, the military, charter rights, etc. Each side has valid view points, something necessary in a democracy. The problem with our democracy is we put way to much faith into an unelected judiciary. As well in each election, the usual result is that a majority of the population is not heard due to the first past the post system. Its about thoughtless individuals. I'm a thoughtless individual according to your personal beliefs, however have seemed to have had a civilized debate with you. Then will you withdraw your thoughtless comments since they are flawed, as a thoughtless person does not have the power to debate. Don't worry, once you get more life experience you'll find out for yourself. I was the same way when I was younger, then once I matured and learned more about the world I found out things aren't as simple as they seem. Thats the only way you can learn is through life experience.

Figleaf my question was about your belief that any person supporting the conservatives are in four camps. I was able to debate you on many of the points the conservatives had. The justice minister was very clear that those who committed a violent or sexaul offense after the third time would have the onus put on them to not be labelled a dangerous offender. If they are named a dangerous offender then they are put away. I think your confused as to what the policy actaully is. It might be smart not to ridicule people for being uninformed when you yourself are uninformed. Your belief that any person who does not support liberalism is a thoughtless individual. Do you still honestly believe that. I think it simply shows a lack of life experience on your part. I've met people from each political camp who have been intelligent and articulate. I've met so far in my short life, Raj Pannu, Ed Stelmach, Stan Woloshyn, Stephen Harper, Laurie Blakeman, and John Williams. Every single one having some degree of an effect on my view of politics.

How large was this high energy beam, was it built a mountain fortress?

What would it take to convince you the a dead Border Guard? The union is onside, and their have been numerous cases where the CBSA has had to flee their posts, I don't really know what you mean by provide examples. That doesn't include petty crime, lets just say that the Trailer Park Boys won't be getting 25 to life anytime soon. We've also seen what happens when repeat offenders are allowed onto the streets who haven't been rehabilitated. Figleaf, why haven't you answered my previous question. It seems that me being a thoughtless individual has provoked a certain amount of civilized debate here.

Their are still those that strongly believe in the Liberal party which once valued Compassion, equality, and founded many of the values which are hallmarks of Canada today. However now I find that pretty well every single party now values power above all else. In todays political climates its choice between three evils. I think we need more people to get into power that actaully care more about Canada then power.

Thats California, not the plan here in Canada. The target here is violent and sexual offenders. Either I'm out to lunch or you are on this topic. The idea of the plan was to keep dangerous offenders behind bars. As for Border Gaurds getting armed, the union president has been lobbying for this for years. It's basic common sense, these guys have to deal with criminal and dangerous situations and need the tools to do so. They shouldn't be relegated to having to leave their posts and wait up to half an hour for the RCMP to show up. It shouldn't take a shooting to change the policy. It's much better then the current system we have, and to a point I agree with you we should have sweeping reform first. The current system though is flawed, their are few nations were only 40% of the vote can lead to 100% of the power. That is a cause of alot of the divisions in Canada, gives way to much power to the PMO. No rebate was offered by the previous government. If that had been adopted then support for Public Daycare would have been higher. As well I'd imagine giving a large sum of money back to parents would make childbearing more attractive. No it isn't, because you single out conservatives and no one else. I was pointing out that a large proportion of people on the left vote for illegitimate reasons as well. I just provided you with plenty of good reasons. I looked at each party platform and took all information into account. So far I'm content with my choice. Your trying to paint a broad section of people with the same brush, something extremely dangerous to do in politics. Thoughtless, if we are all Liberals, and only accept liberal ideals then haven't we become thoughtless. How can their be thought, when all thought is the same across the board. Once again it proves this flawed argument. You say people on the right are thoughtless, but isn't it because of thought that they disagree with liberalism and instead adopt conservatism. As for Republican's being thoughtless, are you saying Republican's who disagree with Bush, are thoughtless?

Customs Border Services Agency. Who do they need to shoot, no one. Why do police and conservation officers carry firearms, for protection. Border Guards have had to flee their posts due to the fact they had no weapons. As well CBSA employees may be in situations were they are dealing with people who have firearms. They don't deter crime, I agree with that. However if somebody commits a violent crime then they should be put in jail indefinitely after the third crime. This is more or less about putting repeat offendors behind bars, why should a pedophile be able to get out of jail after ten years of committing sexual crimes. Introducing a term limit for sentence, and appointing senators from provinces which democratically elect them. Baby steps at best, but at least some movement on the issue. Same with Universal daycare which would not give any benefits to stay at home moms or dads. The policy was an alternative to the position of the Liberal party. The GST tax cut was nice, but I agree taxes should be lowered more so for the lower and midde income earners in Canada. Not really, I looked at the policies of each party and decided Conservative was the best option and thats how I voted. I doubt its thoughtless, I know some people who simply vote Liberal due to the fact their parents vote Liberal, same goes with some of the people who vote conservative, new democrat, green, etc. Your thinking is rediculous, and you lack maturity if it simply comes down to four reasons why people would support the conservatives. As well your argument itself is flawed as the vast majority of people vote based on self interest. To say that people who vote conservative are only acting in self interest while those on the left aren't is a flawed argument. Look down in the United States right now, people who traditionally voted Republican are going to the democrats now. I don't think they are thoughtless as they are making decisions based on what they think is best for the country. Here's the thing, you have people who are conservative, liberal, libertarian, authoritarian, centrist, etc. All of them have reason's for supporting that view because they believe its the best way to run a government and a country. Each one can bring forward a valid argument. http://www.politopia.com/interactive_map.htm

Minime stop humping the frigian high energy beam weapon Sorry, thats pretty damn funny, it's like something from Austin Powers.

Since you are the judge and jury regarding the truth in Canada, I'll try to answer some of your questions. Some people like the fact that a government is finally getting tough on crime, bringing forward some reform in the senate, lowering taxes, arming the CBSA, supporting the military by bringing in more funding, and giving a large sum of money back to families. I don't really see how thats stupid, or ignorant. Their is alot more that has to be done, but I don't see that as dangerous to the country. A better question is how can people be so stupid as to believe that they are superior to their fellow Canadian's due to their political beliefs. I voted conservative in the last federal election, and will probably be voting NDP in my province when the provincial election in my province. Am I ignornant, stupid, or acting in my own self interest. Same goes with nearly a third of Canadian's that support the conservatives. Do you actaully believe that they are inferior to Canadian's that vote Liberal. As for Mackay, he should apologize for the remarks as it brings down decorum in the house. It was wrong, and he should apologize to the MP for it. However MP's oughta bring forward a bit more decorum to the house, and respect other MP's.

Nobody on these forums have a life including myself

GH why do you feel that anybody that doesn't agree with you is inferior? My accusation in an early post can't be garbage, you just keep showing your true colours. As well alot of smart journalists have said that Harper is intelligent, they must all be stupid then. So far your the one that jumps out in my mind of somebody who is elitist, and believes that only a small proportion of Canadian's are far superior to other Canadian's simply because they will vote Liberal. BTW, I know smart women who vote for the New Democrats, Greens, and Liberals. I also know extremely stupid people that vote for the conservatives. It's pretty hard to pinpoint whether your political leanings make you stupid or smart. While people are getting killed over in Sudan the greatest issue facing the country is a three word sentence thats open to interpetation.

Divide and Conquer is usually the best strategy to win votes in Canada, and it shouldn't be. It's extremely easy to have a platform which only extends to lets say the east yet ignore the west in order to win. Thats why this country needs to reform democracy so that a government needs to pay attention and compromise to the whole country in order to get votes passed. I don't see why it can't work here, in Australia it is necessary to compromise with other parties in order to get elected. The major parties in Australia can not get elected unless they can get support from the Greens, One Nation, Family First, or the Democrats. GH, you can't refute it. As well the fact that you think people who aren't Liberals are inferior is evidence of that.