Born Free

Canada's former chief of defence staff Rick Hillier slammed a diplomat's testimony that all detainees transferred by Canadians to Afghan prisons were likely tortured by Afghan officials, saying it's "ludicrous." An interesting read... Especially after watching Hillier's bullshit blustering.... Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/11/25/hillier-detainees.html#ixzz0hydOqvVV GLOBE STORY Ottawa knew of alternative Afghan prison-transfer plan The Harper government has always insisted it heard no warnings of torture risks facing Afghan detainees in 2006, but documents show that in the same year it was carefully following a NATO campaign to take responsibility for captured prisoners away from the country’s notorious intelligence service. A memo obtained by The Globe and Mail shows that in 2006 the federal government was briefed on a lobbying campaign by NATO allies aimed at getting the Kabul government to create stronger safeguards for detainees after prisoner abuses elsewhere.

What is patently clear is that the brass at the DNC clearly lied....especially Hillier when he stated that the liklihood of Afgans torturing detainees is "ludicrous". Everyone in the fucking world knew that the Afghans, Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis, Iranians, etc. etc. employed torture. Hell, even our friends the Yankees did it! That horseshit story from Hillier alone justifies digging deeper into the issue. The Harper gang have a lot to answer for on this.

Yer like the Mad Hatter...

The standard regarding the detention of people by the Canadian military is the Geneva Convention. Surely you must know that. What word would you use to describe the feeling of 35 million Canadians?

Now yer playing Dancers word games. Surely you arent trying to tell everyone you dont have an asshole. Nobody is screaming. Its all in your head. Research on what? Hillier made it clear he either lied to the committee OR in essence he wasnt competent on the job. Doesnt take a lot of research. True enough....and the stench of it lingered on for a few years. I watched the bloody inquiry. I watched General Boyle intently. His actions brought disgrace to the Military leadership and the crap that Dr. Armstrong took from his peers to discredit him was shameful. No Esprit de Corps there! It was interesting that Minister of Defence Collinette elected to later resign over an improper letter to a constituent.

True. However, the CSIS story does come rather quickly on the heels of the other thread dealing with the MacKay stuff. The two storys are strongly linked.

No. Waterboard them or blind fold them, strip 'em naked and pile them up in a heap....just like the Americans did.

He was asked and I do believe -he either lied OR -he is incompetent for not knowing about any possible torture going on by the Afghans. It was his duty to know/find out given that our policy was to hand over some/certain detainees to the Afghans. There is no third option.

Thats a big brush you have in your hands. On the other hand, you again are overlooking the ugly Somalia incident and how it was not dealt with by the Airborne and the DND. That might account for the increase in civilian disdain for the troops during that time.

"in fact our soldiers followed protocal and once they found out he was beaten, they retreived him ASAP....and filled a report detailing the beating"... Cheers,

I see us inexperienced civilians are not qualified (according to you) to draw any inferences or conclusions on this matter. Make all the political points you see fit. This issue isnt about military procedure or protocal. Its about getting behind the events and decisions made by the government and the top brass regarding prisoner torture. I definitely dont need 30 years in the Army to understand when I'm being lied to.

Well you did previously state without equivocation.... "in fact our soldiers followed protocal and once they found out he was beaten, they retreived him ASAP....and filled a report detailing the beating"... That's NOT a rumour. Its first hand knowledge on your part. Ergo, Hillier either should have known this or he was too busy shining his shoes and if you still trust him...you are willfully turning blind eye to the matter. As old Ronnie Raegan once said...."Trust but Verify"...you dont seem to be willing to do any verification.... I dont trust DND's whan they make assholean statements sich as the one that Hillier made. I trust Prime Ministers even less given the past actions of our dishonourable Jean Chretien and Brian Mulroney. Cheers,

You learned nothing. 35 is your IQ. I'm betting your three most difficult years in High School were grade 10. Go read Army Guys stuff.....you're in such awe of him. Ask him for proof. He is apparently aware of the torture....and wrote about it. If you have any trouble reading through it, get back to us.

Stop being so damn Dancer-like. How old are you?

Its not about guaranteeing that nobody will be tortured. It's about how we deal with it when the torture is discovered. Namely...what the military does about it, what the military brass does about it and what our government leaders do about it. The latest information and the cause for this thread is questioning if our government authorities actually participated in torture. Hope this helps.

Yes it is of concern. This story is about evidence proffered by credible sources that Canada might have been handing over detaineees to the Afghans and subsequently tortured. This story is about trying to determine Canada's role in the matter...eg. Were we willfully ignoring information about prisoner torture OR were we turning a blind eye to the torture OR were we perhaps complicit in the torture process as evidenced by the accusations leveled against CSIS. Of course we know that the track record of CSIS has a blemish or two in recent times. You should be concerned too. First, It's not my case. Perhaps you should testify at the Inquiry. Frankly, I find it odd that beatings were also reported to the CDC via phone call. Surely there must have been more than one indident like that and that some calls were made to CDC. Hillier asserted without reservation that it was "ludicrous" that prisoneres were likely tortured. You, as a soldier ,were clearly aware of torture incidents going on and your comrads/brothers correctly reported it. It must have been hard to swallow when Hillier used the "ludicrous" word and said he never saw any reports indicating torture. Hmmm...what was he doing while he sat in his office doing his IN Basket. I'll now remove the tongue from my cheek. Interesting. However, it doesnt explain why or illustrious leaders elected to play hot potato with the information you seem to be fully aware of. Harper and MacKay must have spent long hours how to wiggle out of their dilemma. Cover ups tend to end up being worse than the original crime. Cheers

Wonderful. You should read Article 4. You have been trying to cleverly sidestep the issue by playing Barry Scheck over the Geneva convention....but not clever enough. This story is about evidence proffered by credible sources that Canada might have been handing over detaineees to the Afghans and subsequently tortured. It matters not what you personally wish to define the detainees as being..beligerants, criminals or terrorists or militia... This story is about trying to determine Canada's role in the matter...eg. Were we willfully ignoring information about prisoner torture OR were we turning a blind eye to the torture OR were we perhaps complicit in the torture process as evidenced by the accusations leveled against CSIS. Of course we know that the track record of CSIS has a blemish or two in recent times. Have a great day.

Nobody's screaming. You cant rationalize away the need for an inquiry by smokescreening it with incidents of police brutality in Toronto or Vancouver. We have domestic laws to deal with it. This is about our actions on the international stage and this is what this thread is all about. There you go again with the "I'm more experienced in these matters than you are" crap. I entirely disagree with you. Corruption is corruption whether it's in the government, the military or in the banking world.... What actions? This is about words and opinions. There is probable cause out on the table to suggest that a cover up is in the works. I am reminded of how the goverment smeared Richard Colvin just as the military did to Dr. Barry Armstrong of the Somalia Inquiry. Folks such as yourself continued to be adament that there is nothing to the story. So be it. I believe otherwise. Sorry you are taking this so personal given your military background. You shouldnt. This issue is about the government of Canada's dealings and actions (or lack of) with respect to the handling of detainees. Its hard to exclude mentioning the military in the process. In prior threads on this topic, the same people (including me) were very concerned that our government is lying about the issue. I still believe that. Instead, a certain poster elected to make this about the interpretaion of the Geneva Conventions and willfully turned a blind eye to information that has been proffered by credible sources. Cheers,

A very interesting read. Thanks.

Very weird. Perhaps its because you dont understand what the word detainee means....give it a Google. Accusing posters of being dumb is the kind of crap that got you banned not all that long ago.

...wazza matta Morris? Why cant you answer my question....what terrorists are you referring to? The issue isnt about terrorists...its about the dealing with detainees...you probably didnt know that...you should now consider yourself informed.

What terrorists are you talking about? Name them. I've asked you this before....

You need to read 'em all. There will be a quizz on Monday.

I'm not interested in debating that. I'm only interested in issue regarding what actions the Canadian government and the military took regarding detainees... Well actually you implied it. You did write this... "And confirms what very little you know about our military...." and later made sure we knew that you had 30 years in the military implying the obvious... So..... I will now assume that we share in the belief that having military experience isnt necessary to form a viewpoint on the issue. I've always been honest with you. Suggesting that I have been dishonest is an insult. I am of the opinion that the head of the CDC and even the PM are quite capable of being dishonest. We even have some damn good examples of it. Thats fine. However others do see that a misdeed could well have been committed and that there is probable cause to seriously delve into it. We all know that the cover up can be seen as being worse than the original deed. Generally speaking, you have the wrong impression. When certain actions are questioned and the reaction is to run and hide..as in this case with Peter MacKay & Co. ..that becomes a much different story. The mere fact that the government elected to attack ambasador Richard Colvin as not being a credible person, that had a rotten Nixonian smell to it that says to me....INQUIRY!!!