KrustyKidd

Well said Nova! I might add that my name at the top of the thread gives me a small rush too. I imagine that tommorow you will have a lot to defend but good for you. In the interim I would have you know that presently there is a lot of money with no strings attached working in Iraq and Afganistan. This is being given to the people of those countries so that they can build their nation post tyranny. As well, governments are being groomed so that the US can leave the people to rule themselves rather than self destruct into anarchy the second we leave. I know you knew that, but thought that you should prepare yourself for the morrow.

Nova, in all seriousness, if I were an Arab I would feel completely different. However I am not. I am from the Western tribe. We have been attacked. Before I will sit down and talk with a group of people who have declared through action their intention to kill me and mine I will remove the threat from my throat. It's priorities. You for some reason see indifference but it's not. We will have all the time in the world to intermesh cultures and centuries once the terrorists and WMD threats are gone. And here I thought that it was drilled out of the ground by western companies who paid for it with money which enabled the people there to feed and support themselves with. I didn't know that the enterprising Arabs who make nothing but carpets with child labor and pick pistatchios and saffron were spending all their time knitting oil from camel dung. Anyhow, kidding aside, we all know that if there was no oil there then America would have no interest there and they would be starving while they waited for the UN to arrive. Is the problem they don't get enough money for the oil they watch us take? Make a better deal. Is the problem we are not polite enough? Seems we grovel quite nicely when we want something. You have a point but it's bad timing is all.

I understand your concerns and all are valid. We can do office work and research aplenty at the home base once it calms down. Right now there are men who wish to kill you. As I type they are trying to figure out a way of making you and I die in the most spectacular way possible. If they can blow my daughter's head off on CNN they will rejoice with AK 47s going off in the air. Let's deal with them with a little more punctuality than unearthing the Moses/Muhamed connection. You and I inherited an earth from people who never knew this stuff would happen. Never knew the wall was going to come down. Never knew or dreamed that people with no ability to drive a car could build a nuclear weapon. Yet here we are faced with it. You want to go on about history? It used to take five thousand years for human knowledge to double, then a hundred years. Now it's not even a year. History? The textbook you study from is possibly a Smithsonian relic. What's happening is now and to you, same as the 16 year old waitress in the restaurant at the top of the Tower. Maybe she believed in Allah or maybe the God of Hitler but it was the hand of a man who hated America that killed her. The same hand that wants to kill you and I. The US government is trying to save Americans, not Jews, Arabs or whatever. They are reacting to scenarios Hollywood never even dreamed of - people who will do anything to kill you and look, appear, act as if they are one of us. They don't dfferentuate between skin color, religion or occupation, only shock value. They don't try to limit innocent death and they hide amongst people who are fearful of pointing them out. Nova, they are trying to kill you and I, other than telling us what we are doing is wrong, what should we do? They are here now.

Hi Nova. So what should we do to make the world right? You come up with some genralized threads and we will dicuss them. Beats hammering on a bunch of right wingers anyday.

Hi Nova. I think you are a smart young firecracker and well worth debating with. Please don't take me wrong for pulling two quotes from the recent past, they just seem so relevent. In the second quote I capped the key words. I would imagine that the words and acronisms JIT, Global Village, Instant messaging, up to the second intelligence, shrinking world, biosphere and all are old hat to you so I need not go on with how out of date those quotes are from yesterday. To the point, the relevance of what went on centuries ago is simply meaningless. We don't have much time us and them. Are you going to pick up a stone and grind wheat chaffs, inject a computor chip into your shoulder or work somewhere inbetween? These people are on the verge of building nuclear weapons with a pre medival mentality and you focus only on our dysfunctionality? I'm not saying they are wrong. Not saying we are wrong either. What I am saying is that 13th century has to meet the 21st in a hurry. BTW, don't forget what century you live in, when the storm comes (which I hope we can avert) it doesn't differenciate between Infidels.

So you see a divine purpose in mutilating God's creation? You see a divine purpose in throwing a blanket over God's beauty? You see a divine purpose in keeping the population in fear of devils, temptations, and new ideas because they might sway from the path? What path? The path of living in a tent/mud hut/clay hut/apartment and making decisions based on what they must do according to something written 1600 years ago before oil and electricity rather than what is possible? Leaving the male sexual organ intact so that it can better lust after that which it cannot see? OK, try it from a cultural aspect, forget God. Over half the population is a slave, that's OK with you? You keep on going on in this board about how others lives matter and here we have a whole society that sees women as nothing but lawn furniture. From birth they are controlled, who they see, who they go out with (if ever) and who they marry. If they give birth to a girl they are to blame. So magnanimous of the guys, you know, the ones that keep them prisoner. Heck, a lot of them never learn to read or write. That's OK with you? To me it spells fear and insecurity. You must have enough tolerance to smooth over any problem you encounter. I've lived in Syria and Egypt for over a year and a half, there they are moderate and have combined ME culture with Western culture and are great people one on one. Intolerant? For you to call me fool for ridiculing a way of life that has gone way past it's time and dangerously close to being a vehicle for destroying your's and our lives is fatuous. My customs indeed. Their customs phrohibit any new ideas which would feed the population, supply clean water, promote education to the poor. All must be approved by such open minded individuals such as Emirs and Mullahs You think Bush has aspirations of power and things to hide? Better not look in their closets cause they don't even THINK about public opinion, the next election or how the economy looks in the eyes of the population. Nova, I mentioned this on another thread, do you own anything that is twentieth century like a shirt or a camera, maybe an automobile accessory or a radio, heck, I'll even go so far as to say a novel other than a religious one that was made in an Arab country? Their culture is backward. OBL and terrorists have heightened and accelerated the need and time required for them to join the world. In my prievious post I simply demonstrated that the blame for infidelity is placed on the woman there. Cover her and we won't be bastards is what it says, blame is not laid at the source. Self control and education, the other side is State control and non education, Orwellian with sand and camels and as an added cattle prod - Allah's gonna getcha!. I never said to dress up in fishnets and high heels but simply think. Nobody there is capable of self control? You are defending that?

I think Riff, that you must be reading the minds of the President and many others in Washington. They are doing as you say and trying not to take everything away but rather extricate a dictatorous cancer from Iraq and inject it with values and an economic stimulai that has made America and the Western World much better off than the Third World. You have good points and are a serious poster so please take this as a point rather than a jibe. You are right, there is not much time, if you have any tangeable ideas that would effect this better than leaving people like OBL, Saddam and Kim to effect global suicide then lets's have them, quick! Simply saying this is not right is not good enough, you have to do it better and - cover all the bases. That is the hard part, no matter how good it is there will always be a disenchanted group. Some of them are quite powerful.

I just glanced back at this thread expecting maybe somebody was saying something like RIP, or reflecting on how sad it was but then I see people using this as a vehicle to spew fault. Is there not enough Pro/Anti America threads on this board where we can argue blame, fault, political agenda that we have to use a mistitled one? Today? Give it a rest on this one here, these people were victims, let them have some slack on this thread.

Going to say this as nicely as possible. If you are going to mention 911 today and offer condolences try to either do it with genuine feelings or not at all. To use it simply as a prop or a lead in for your second para - anti US bashing is a slap in the face to all who died and their heartbroken families. I know the point you were tryng to make but won't dignify it with a response on this thread.

That's too good to be true. It will fail as it has before. Simple logic, polititions are in it for themselves. If they don't get in power then they won't go for it. If I can't be leader then nobody is. I hope they prove me wrong in a big way.

I agree Nova. Instead they allow them to flourish and walk amongst them and do nothing to hinder their hateful work. Evil happens when good men do nothing. Apathy is the true evil. Show us where these terrible men are, allow us to come in and extract this disease from your midst. Respose: "mmmmmmgph."

Hey Craig, ever notice how lefties don't address just one thing? The argument is always a 45 gallon drum of monkeys thrown up in the air. I wonder abut the economy. I'm not privy to any reports but know that where I sit it's booming. My trucks are rolling 3500 plus miles a week in cross border frieght. I'm sitting in Salt Lake city right now, I picked up a load of really essential survival stuff today - fitness equipment. Going to St Germaine PQ. Does that sound like an economy in it's death throes? I brought down a load of file cabinets to Denver for a new office building, guess that's another company with a severe cash crunch. When I start hauling firewood and turnips as my main bread and butter I'll start to worry. Everywhere I look here they're hiring, looking for drivers, owner operators, warehouse staff, factory workers. It reminds me of Alberta, you can find a job drunk in your underwear pretty much. As a businessman I'm sure you know that when times are good you don't mind spending to create equity and versatility. It's a fact that you will always have bills and with a good base you will always have income to cover those bills. You never get rich as you always re-invest It's not the stuff of Wall Street that makes this happen but people working. When I see luxury items being sold everywhere I take that as a sign that an economy has long scince passed being the depression era.

Let's see. Mahmood brother. Here is five thousand dollars. Purchase tickets for yourself, Omar, Salleem, Mohamed, Pasi, Yasser, Ali, Uday and Quasy. Make sure you seat yourselves as instructed. Using the strong nylon cords as garrotes and the socks full of change as clubs wait until the stewardess opens the cockpit door for the meal. Then if there is a troublesome passenger fend him off with this lighter and can of ether mislabelled as shaving cream. Nine guys working together blocking the cockpit. The only difference here was choice of weapons. Heck, another scenario would be simply enough guys to overpower people period.

Got to thinking the other day about scenarios, anybody want to try a few? 1. US removes all backing from Palestinian/Israeli peace initiative. Cancels funding to all parties. 2. US caves in on Iraq and places all it's troops under the command of a Lybian General. 3. Arafat recalls Abbas saying he backs the PM and gives him full authority to reign in terror groups. 4. Israel gets taken over by California Liberals, lays down arms and opens borders to all Palestinians. Also gives back Golan and West Bank. Everybody holds hands singing Kumbyah until the Palestinians show up. Are they holding candles and bedrolls or AK47s?

Of course he is going to say that. The value of Nuclear Weapons when you have a versitile mobile large well trained army is mainly deterence. To state you will not use them is to encourage an adversary to attack you. It may seem fatuous to say but it is helpful to the enemy in that it can save them a lot of grief. Consequences of conflict with NK are terrible. They know that and NK knows that. Brinkmanship it's called. NK wants money and we want them to get rid of it's Nuke program. We can't show we are lowering ourselves to extortion and they can't appear to being bought. I'd say that there is a lot going on under the table here. Rene, ya, that's it. So true though, just when you thought you were off the hook and didn't really exist along comes logic. I like chess but used to play that game Risk with a bunch of buddies. We had two boards and so many rules we had made up in order to lower the chance element that it wasn't funny. Even had Paratroopers lol.

I don't like to answer for others but couldn't resist. Nobody is blameless for anything but you and your ilk continually heap unwarranted blame on the US as the world's source of evil. Are they responsible for starvation in Somalia at the hands of warlords? Disease and infacide in every third world country? By opening a trade corridor with a third world country so that they can earn money to purchase goods not made from roots - is that evil? Do you expect the Average American to simply work for nothing so some person on the other side of the planet can live a better life? Of course not. We work and invest money so that others can make things we would like to purchase in order to make our lives more enhanced. It's a simple formula that would work quite well except that ....... There are those who do not like their people to be better off. There are those who would steal the money intended for these programs and keep it for themselves. There are those that desire more than power over their own people and take money used to feed same and put it towards weapons to strike/intimidate and subjugate those in other nations. In short, there is a lot of true evil going on in this world besides the USA trying to buy something off of somebody at fair market value.. I had to laugh at this one as in your next quote you say And as my Philosophy teacher says, "When your argument is weak, INSULT SOMEONE!" "Shoot first ask later hell with our orders trigger happy president?" I wonder, an elected official with safeguards built in through congress and advisors and such or a megalomaniac who has been known to kill somebody simply for telling him he might be wrong. . Whom do you trust? OBL with a nuke, oh now there is a picture of stability. Are you serious that you would sleep better tonight knowing Hamas had a nuke? As for getting people's minds off a horrible economy is that truly what you think? You think that Bush woke up one day and hung up his soul and found a thousand or so people to go in on some conspiracy with him to deflect attention from an economy? "Hey, Cheney. Here's a way we can look good. You don't mind going to hell for killing thousands of people do you? I know we've only been in office a year and cannot be blamed for the state of the economy anyhow but if we blow a couple hundred billion on some unnecessary war and kill hundreds or thousands we can make ourselves look not so bad." Just wondering, in any of your theories did it ever occur to you that there is anybody on the planet other than the US government that might be a threat to you or anybody else?

Not much. Thank you for pointing out the danger of leaving him to make whatever weapons he desires and amplifying the call to stop him. A depressed Raymond Descarte agonized for years over this question. The answer came suddenly "Je pense, donc je suis" Check it out with your philosophy prof. Nova, you are right, nobody in their right mind would want to attack NK but I travel a lot so may have missed something over the last few days. Why is there a focus on occupying land in North Korea? It is about as relevent here as discussing trying to attack Iraqi forces if they were dug in on the moon. I would imagine that the problem can be solved by economic blockade, political and regional ostracization and having a nuke ready to drop on his ass if he so much as points a missile anywhere but his outhouse. On another point mentioned by somebody already. There are hundreds and possibly thousands of people in the defense and state departement who make your profs look like grade school kids. These gents have up to the second intelligence and have done nothing for all their thousands of collective years but study military and geo political stategy from Hadrian to the last fire fight in Afganistan and Iraq. They even hire no mind high school kids to come up with off the wall crap to ensure they havn't staled their own thinking processes. I would imagine that whatever happens they won't forget to issue bullets or socks. Yet you believe that we believe that? Why do you assume that Americans think their army is all powerful? It is an arm of the government. Economic and political agility are as important as well. These are playing in NK as we speak. To assume one American soldier will enter NK is plain dumb yet you have confined your thinking to this one off the wall scenario. This cat can be belled with ten different methods yet you again can only look at it as a military only problem.

Just to clarify: to win the war on terror and protect the principles of freedom, democracy etc. etc. etc. it may become necessary to trample said principles in favor of a campaign of mass destruction and death? In other words: you would become that which you hate, destroy what you are in a single-minded quest for vengance? Wow. That's messed up. I sure hope that America's leaders aren't as crazy as you (but I have my doubts). I don't understand what is so hard for you to fathom. Picture a doctor trying to remove a bullet from a patient who is uncuffed and swinging a machette. Overpower, sedate and operate. Once that's all done we can take statements and figure out what to do next. Why you would call that vengeance rather than common sense is beyond me.

Can anybody out there two cities in South Dakota? How about Montana? What is the capital of Belize? If you don't know the answer these people who live there could say that you are arrogant and know nothing. I wonder if anybody knows what the Mexican city on the other side of Laredo Texas is called. Probably not as why should they. Same as why an American who has no business in Canada (98% of the US population or more) would need to know what city is our capital. Why should they? It's more our air of superiority at work more than an American one. Many here think that a disproportionate amount of people on this planet watch our every move wondering what we will do next. The French watch the Germans and they watch the US. Luxumborg is watching France and Belgium is watching Luxumborg. Mexico watches the states so who would care what we do? To many on other continents they don't even know we have a large population or a robust economy. They think igloos and dog sleds not even aware that we have a military. I would imagine this is due to the conspicuous lack of soldiers in trouble spots where one would expect to see a Canadian soldier. It does however show that they are smarter than the average Canadian though as a Canadian thinks we have enough soldiers to be everwhere.

Been a long time scince I went to Sunday school so had to look these up on the web for a closer look. I know that many cultures the world over that (until the last couple of centuries had no contact no contact with one another) shared one thing; The golden rule - do unto others as you would have done to you. On looking at these commandments listed below it seems that all but the first three and last two echo this rule and spell it out in slightly larger detail. As for the last two it is simply a rule of thumb for anybody with a concience to not drool over somebody else's wife/husband or stuff. Really though, what impresses me most here is that it may be thought by some to be the word of God but to those who do not believe in God or Gods it can be considered the conscience of man. This is the stuff we all know not to do whether you are Catholic, Hari Krishna, Buddist or a Turnip worshipper. I AM THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT NOT HAVE strange gods BEFORE ME. THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN. REMEMBER THOU KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH DAY. HONOR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER. THOU SHALT NOT KILL. THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY. THOU SHALT NOT STEAL. THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S GOODS. I say cut the first three and the last two out and place them separate from the others someplace where they are welcome and keep the others displayed prominently and proudly.

I always got a kick out of the Islamic guys. They clitorize the women then put them in a head to toe drop cloth so nobody can see them. LOL, like they are such primitive uncontrolable horney sex machines that the sight of a woman's ankle makes them forget God, society, family, country. So ..... civilized. And there are those out there who think that primitive impulsive monkeys like these have an answer?

"One nation under God" "We the people" "All men are created equal" "In God we trust" "Innocent until proven guilty" "Justice is blind" "Give us your tired and weary" Based on actors and rock stars? No, many small thinking unimportent individuals may attatch disproportional importence to sports stars and their lives but hardly fits your theory of how the nation revolves around them. George Washington didn't cross the Patomac in order to get Boz Skaggs's autograph nor did the Firemen charge up the Towers to sniff Hal Berry's undies. I think you are on the wrong track here Lonius. As for the US expecting others to worship the same idols they themselves do; no, they don't. They try to make dictators, reigiemes and religious leaders who exert tryanny over the downtrodden starving masses to embrace liberty and democracy but to many it means relinquishing power. Hollywood is an image of America that those who cannot fathom freedom see. Kind of like if you don't get out much you think that all girls look like Shianna Twain and all moms look like Mrs Brady.

Well Abbas has resigned. No support for his leadership has once again demonstrated the true nature of Palistinian's visions of peace. Seems he wanted to have the power of the security forces to stop terrorists and that is not what the Palistinian leadership truley wants. So out he goes. Another opportunity for a good life thrown away. Is it the last one?

How long do you think the US would survive if it did nothing in it's own interests? How long would you survive if you did nothing but volunteer work? To combine the two is the key and the US does it better than anybody else. Besides, where is it written that they should do anything for anybody anywhere? It's not so stop expecting them to, for a country that is the target of every fanatic on the planet I'd say they act with more restraint and compassion for others than any sane person can expect them to. How many items made, origionated in, transported in part through, patented to, invented in, financed or developed by the Great Satan did you use today? Did you use them to help humanity or just to type the anti US post you just wrote? Did you drive an Arab car to the Hate The Infidel Rally? How about the medicine that helped your kid beat the flu? They were all made and developed by greedy capitalists. Only in it for money. LOL, like you were thinking they were trying to impress you? Documents found when West Germany reunited with East Germany and took over former Soviet bases showed how the nuclear war was to be waged. They detailed laying waste to portions of Europe to facilitate Soviet troop movements to key positions. It was never a last resort but rather a prelude to war. It surprised everybody. Top officials in NATO included. Funny part was that Switzerland was left intact, it was presumed for the gold bullion.

Make that the whole Arab world Craig. Look in your car, under the sofa or in your closet. Not one thing made in any Arab country. Good thing they have oil. And it's all the fault of the Jew. They are so pathetic that 3 million Jews can keep them down, what? 250 million Arabs downtrtodden by 3 million Jews. What a bunch of winners. No sense in taking help from the USA. They are backward infidels. No sense in talking real peace with Israel, when the kids find out how we've been screwing them for 60 years all hell's gonna break loose in Gaza. Beside's, we'd have to join the 21st century and actually get a job and maybe keep an appointment.