watching&waiting

The flaw in your theory is that the Liberals never do the things that they say they will do anyway, so you must remember that they view election promises and policy and what they will reall do, as two totally different enities.

You are wrong on that what is done today will be 100 years before we see results. If you take the time to read the doom and gloom that the environmentalists say. Is if we escalate at the same rate as we are now doing each year for the next 100 years such and such will happen. So if we do meet the goals of the Clean Air Act where we have reduced emmissions to 1990 levels by the year 2050, then we will have not only reverse the direction of escalation but we will be reversing it. So the dates for allthe catastrophies will be even further off then the 100 years it is now off by. This is why the environmentalists have skued their data and are for ever changing their positions. For example for their predictions we would have to increase as much for each year, for the next 100 years. But they never tell you that yes we ahve had some years where things have been much less and the warming has reversed. They also forget to say that any number of natures own events can change the table completely.

The article was tongue in cheek because of the very snowy and cold events on the west coast where his constituency is, were having a real cold and snowy time compared to the usually much warmer events. He then in a glib manner said he would welcome the global warming etc etc. This was done only to be comical. Only idiots or those with agendas would not see this immediately. It seems that the Liberal are so scared that they have to try and manufacture things to try and regain power. He even the papers this was reported in knew it was tongue in cheek comments. The same members spinning these things again and again, must really think we are stupid, and that easily swayed.

The clean air act does infact address all the environmental concerns over a 50 year period. Since the Global warming is a 100 year problem, then a 50 year solution is really pretty good. The solution is also easily achieved. The environmentalists of today only want to see answers where people and economies suffer, as part of the solution, and that is just plain wrong. You will not find anyone who is in the scientific community that will say that if all the targets are met with the clean air act, that it will not make a difference. All they can say is that it takes too long, and what if it does not meet its targets, then it will only be 50 more years to when there is a problem. People need to remember the global warming problems are not in the here and now, but they are 100 years down the road. The targets for harmful pollutants will do more for the here and now then anything all the other have suggested. I can say with much confidence that the goals of the Clean Air Act are quite attainable and if all are reached the 100 year problem will become a 300 year or longer problem. That to me is about all I feel my generation is responsible for. Man and his environmental issues will never go away but they will be pushed farther and farther off into the future by each generation of people. Only if new and very advanced technologies are created will we be able to eliminate it all together.

It would be foolish for Duceppe to make the Afghan mission an election issue. The only reason that the public are getting upset with this mission is because they do not know much about it, and they do not understand the differences between peace keeping and battlefront operations. If pushed to do so the CPC will spend the time and money to expalin all this out in an election format and it will be egg on the nay sayers faces not the CPC. I could never understand the fact that Harper did not explain the mission clearly to the people, or if he feels he can not then get some one who can to do so. What Canada is doing in Afghanistan is honourable and the right thing to do and be part of. The public just needs to be made aware of it. To call an election on an issue that can be explained and then come back on you for calling the election on it, would not be wise. The biggest gainer would be the CPC in that. The NDP in any election call will be losing most of the seats they now have and I can not see them being any real crown maker in the future. Thay missed their chance and now they will just go off and seek a new leader, or at least I hope, as I really can not stand Layton. The Liberals with Dion have hedged their bets as Dion is trying to blur the stance of the party as of yet, towards the issue. But in the light of an election he will have to take a firm stand one way or the other, and that will be the stand of showing him being unsure, and that is a fatal flaw for a party leader. The Bloc may well be looking at this and hoping it will translatre inot gaining seats, but as I said earlier this to me would be a wrong thing to do.

The CRTC has been a place where the governments make appointments of those party faithful that were to be awarded something for their support. I am glad that it will be gone and yes it will easily save the tax payer money. I would give Harper the Kudos for this as it was really nothing more that a pork barrel for most of the past governments. There are many more departments that will meet the same end after a while, and to that end I will say it is in keeping with the reduced government size without reducing services. This is a good thing.

It really makes me wonder about those who question if Arar was tortured. It is a very well known fact that Syria does use torture on a daily basis, as a toll to extract information. It has been documented and is pretty much known world wide. That is the reason the USA sent him there to be intarogated by them. Only the most naiuve among us would not have expected anything different. The Canadian Consul in Syria, should have also known this as it is not something that is hidden. I would be more surprised if the Syrians had not tortured Arar. Even though the Syrians did say Arar signed things during interogation, that were not true, should also indicate that torture was used. Also I must say that it is not being questioned by the Canadian government about the torture because they do know it was more likely then not done by the Syrians. I will also like to point out that there is no Syrian community in Ottawa as Mikedavid00 claims. The east end around Walkley, Russel and St Laurent Blvd, is where the largest part if miidle eastern immigrants are. To say that this is a syrian community would be like saying less then a 100 families make a community. I also want to point out that since Mikedavid00 says he is from Ottawa, I do want to apologise to the rest of Canada, to think that Ottawa is the kind of place that grows this type of poster. Most people even when very disappointted in the government, do not have his racist hate come about. I can only think that maybe he was once denied something he wanted badly only to have it given to someone of another race, to expalin his way of thinking.

I am sorry but your opiion seems to be fouling the air in our free and democratic country. You believe that only those born here are Canadians and you would like to see the teiring of citizen classes. You forget though that we all for most part are not true Canadians as we all come from immigration, ecept for the native people. Arar was living and working here in Canada and raising a family here all his children were born here. Both he and his wife would have made well into $2-3 hundred thousand a year here before this happened. So no he was not here to collect welfare or for the healthcare. I really do not know why I have to explain this to you. Read up about things before you make posts and you will mayb e then not seem like a racist idiot. An uninformed one at that. You have admitted you know nothing about this guy or what happened to him. But you sure want him out of our country. Well let me say this Arar if he had not had this happen by now whould have contributed over $500,000.00 in taxes and would have given many times that over his career. Just how much have you given? He has had two children born here and so they will probablu also be highly educated and contribute even more. I can only hope that you never have had children. I would hope that there are mitigating circumstances for your lack of compassion and intellect in these matters. Please do us all a favour and just take some time and read what this is about.

Exactly my point. He is soliciting support. If that is your point, then you missed the target by a mile. You opening a new thread the way you did was wrong and against the rules. The hyperbola that you asage to is nothing but misinformation, and now you try to save face. You made a mistake you should just admit it. You will not get very much support here for your cause, as we all have been more politically aware of the whole Arar thing, that then makes it difficult for you to come and generate ill feelings over someone who has the right and moral obligation to sue our government. I can only assume that you are very young and have not lived most of life's experiences yet. Maybe sit back and read all you can and then see if all your points are still there.

People get over all this and remember it is only a poll and that means it really is not something that remains true much more beyond the time it was taken. It only is a smal slice in the picture of what the public thinks, and being that it is not any where near the kind of polls done during elections, it means even less. It is nothing more then a feel good poll about the fact that the Liberals have voted a new leader. Remember when Turner was voted leader and the polls had him walking to victory and could not be beaten? Well, that for sure shows you just how wrong a poll can be. Dion will now have to give out his policy on the public forums and he will need to be more indepth with his plans then he has in the past. We will see what he will be like when the toough questions will be asked. The thing about dual citizenship will be minor, but in the end he will need to give it up, as the GG did with her appointment, and that being the highest office in the land, I could make argument for both views, but in the end it will be put the same way as the GG did it. Dion has yet to have his feet turned to the fire about his rather bad record with the environment and he will need much more then promises on that score, if he is to be taken seriously. His English is very bad but maybe within 6-8 months he will be able to be better at it. I can still see the fractures in the Liberal ranks even though they are trying to put on a united front. That will not bode well during election time, as policy will be scattered and many will appear to conflict against each other. The debate during an election will be a big problem as whle Dion may do well in French, he will most likely get killed in the English debates. So yes this is a poll that is still about the honeymoon with a new leader, but wait for the rest and see how that pans out.

What part of him being a Canadian Citizen do you not understand? This is not in doubt and never was in doubt, even in the information that was given to the USA by the RCMP. You must has missed this whole inquirey I guess. The USA sent him back to Syria because they wanted him tortured and to see what he knew. They were fully aware that he held valid Canadian passports, and yes you have to be a citizen of Canada to have a valid passport. He was travelling with the Canadian passport at teh time of his detainment. Several lower officers in the RCMP gave wrong info and had him misrepresented as a muslim extremist. That info was wrong and it was later determined it was totally misinterpeted by the RCMP, and passed on to the USA. But even with that the USA should have never, ever under any circumstances sent Arar to Syria, but instead sent him back to Canada. Also yes this has been taken up with the USA and they have promised they would never do that again, but I would not believe that for a minute. I agree that Arar should be able to sue the USA as well, but they will not give the case any standing so it would need to be done in world court. Here in Canada we all know that mistakes were made by our RCMP, and they were big mistakes, so big the RCMP Commissioner has resigned over the fact he had covered up things and swept them under the rug. This means the time Arar spent in Syrian jail being tortured was the fauult of Canada not doing enough to put their mistakes right and the cover up only made his time even longer. Consider that he was deeaned and tortured for that time, and you tell me if you would settle for 2 Million. Arar was a software engineer and he would be making over $100,000.00 per year at the time, When you have been treated like he was you just do not forget it all and go back to work. He will have depression for many years to come and he will not be able to concentrate well for work. But even that aside if our government took you and tortured you for a year in a jail cell, where you thought you would die. Do you really thing that would worth a couple million, especially when you also had to fight every step of the way to prove this was done? What if people in Canada paid a thousand to send you over to Syria and label you as a spy and a homosexual. You would probably be tortured and face the death penalty. Would that be enought for you? There even today are rights and wrongs, and when we are in the wrong we should admit it and settle with the people. I have no doubt that this will be settled for much more then what it is being asked right now, but I would still like to see Arar get the international courts to sue both the USA and Syria for what happened as well, and maybe with what Canada has to pay him, he will be able to do just that.

He was and still is a Canadian citizen and he was abused by his former Country of Syria, after the RCMP gave incorrect information to the USA, about him and his beliefs. It was our police that made the mistake about the information and it was the USA who should have never sent a Canadian citizen to another country at any time for any reason. Yes Canada failed him and yes we are going to pay for that. We all know it and might as well get used to that. If that had been me, I would be suing for much more then that. When you think of it, for those like me who travel outside Canada, this could easily happen. What would you do if your country made a mistake and left you for a year to rot in a cell and be tortured. Would you say much to any Canadian consel persons if your abusers have threatened your life if you say anything? It has been already shown that Canada let this citizen down badly, and to now to take shots at him because he is going to sue is just plain stupid.

Gerry not only do I beg to differ with you on this point, it is also a fact of the very topic of this thread is the same as another thread about the polls. But I am a patient man and if you insist on doing this, the way you have. I will wait to respond in kind when it swings the other way. You know a knew thread for every point the poll changes etc. But then again I probably will be more grown up and may just let it go.

I must admit that both of these made me mad as hell. The GST I will say is not something that I found bad, as it was said at one time that it could replace the income tax eventually. I still would like it to go that way. But that is just me. I hated Mulroney for his stupid pork barrelling of giving positions to people who had no qualifications to the positions, like Rinaldo (Meela's Hairdresser) to the Bank of Canada. Dr Wiber Keon to the Senate, when he was better used and needed in the Operating room and training new medical doctors. I do not mean to say Keon would not make a good senator, but rather he was a much better asset as one of the most reknowned Heart Surgeons in the world. The list goes on and on. Brian was arrogant and while I was glad to meet his wife Meela and their dog flowers, I did not bother to even shake his hand because he was in my eyes not some one who deserved my respect. I fixed the things that were needed at the Harrington Lake residence and thanked them for the trust in letting me do my job the right way, and then bid them good bye. The systems I set up were good from that day onward and my bill was about 1/3 of what others did, but their sysytems went down about once a month and they were forever there trying to fix it. That is the only time I met Brian, and like I said he was not the man I would vote for. This was around the time of Oka and yes he was pretty drunk. I knew he was an alcoholic and he had fell off the wagon. Maybe that explains my view as opposed to others who met him and found him quite charming. Chretien I have seen many times dining at the Rideau Club and yes he always struck me more of a thug then a PM. He was loud at times and he was for ever sticking his finger into people around him to made points I guess. With all the money he lost during his term and the loans to golf courses he liked etc.. Not to mention the boondogals and the sponsorship scandels, and I could go on and one. He basically stole about $1000.00 from each tax payer during his term, if you add it all up. That is quite a lot. He still can be seen at the Rideau Clud and also at Hy's Steak house on the ground floor of the same building. He still looks and talks like a thug and maybe that is the best way to pigeon hole him, as nothing else seems to fit. As for what one was the worst ? Well Chretien was because he caused the most damage, even though he hid most of it. Mulroney was more of a flagrant in your face thing, and that made me hate him more back then, but I will admit some of the things he did proved to be right , even if I did not like them. So Chretien to me is the worst offender. We will be finding more and more about what really was done by him over the next little while, because I can tell you from things I have been told that there are many reports being done that will make the Sponsorship look like a small events. The HDRC Scandel is still on going and it will be in the billions. Remember that one?

Gerry you again are posting multiple topics about the same thing. You know that is against the rules and while you usually push the envelope in that, you now are stepping out side it. But that is just my opinion. I actually would love to see the liberals call for an election say this January and then we would see just what the standing are. Right now the polls represent more a show of agreement that the Liberals have made the right choice for leader. The real stuff will come about only in an election call and the campiagnes there of. The voters are fical about many things and they will be even more so now. I do see that much of the NDP vote has withered to the Liberals, and that was not surprising as Layton I always found annoying and never trusted him all all. The CPC is setting up for election mode and the only time that the Liberals will have to stall that will be a January election call. If they do it any later CPC will have introduced an election budget. You know just like the Liberals used to do. If the Liberals do the call quickly they may be able to miss reports that will surface from the fact that Dions new position means the Auditor General will need to do an indepth report to clear or smear the new leader. You do know that is going to happen, as it is just the right thing for her to do, and it is her job. Also the RCMP will be getting a new boss and since it will be appointed by the CPC I think all those criminal probes will become something of a more appeal. Now before you cry foul, remember this is exactly what a voter would expect of their government. So yes the polls right now are swinging to the Libs, but a funny thing about swings is they only go so far and then they come back the other way. From my point od view the only chance the liberal will have to make a move will be January and they will have to do this with the fractured party and with nuch less money. I am not sure they will do it, but I also think that is their best and only real chance for now. Otherwise they will need to wait for late spring or early fall. By then the polls will be what they will be.

I personally think that all police commissioners should not be from the police force at all. In this case there was a definite coverup that was more inline with keeping the RCMP out of the line of fire and that was done because of the attachment of the Commissioner to the RCMP. All police board reviews should be made up of 50% public and 50% police force as well, because we all know that the police can not effectively police themselves. What we need is public input and all of this will not go very far as once the public side of the boards hear the wrong doing it will stop and those responsible will be dealt with within reasoable time. It is the only way to be sure that this is not repeated again.

I would have to say that most of the Arabic leaders have insulted Bush at one time or another. Hell Iran did for sure. So did North Korea and China, and I am sure many more. The action of some of Bush's things have caused much of the world to condemn what he did and were not polite about what they said. So that should also be included.

Harper made the promise to revisit SSM during the last election and the electorate voted for him with that in mind. So yes this is fore filling a promise. The people had their say and this is what they chose. To now say anything different would be to deny the people thier right to choose. But again that is the Liberal way now is it not. Hell the one thing you can count on with Liberals is if they promise it at election time it will have a 30% chance of being true and 70% chance they are lieing. At least with Harper you will get what is promised and if by chance circumstances change and it can not be done, it will be explained clearly. The Liberals just ignore any iquiries about things they do not want to answer to.

I am not french but the wife is and she has said that Harpers french is quite good. He does speak the true French-Canadian language and not the Parisiene French though. She found him using the correct verbs and things, but yes he still has an accent of the English and not the French, but that does not take away his ability to say what he has to say and make his point in French. Dions french is the Parisiene French and his english is well an effort but he just does not make his point as he is searching to much for the words.

People should just get over trying to make more of this then it really is. Harper had promised a free vote on SSM before the next election and he is fore filling that promise with this vote. It is going to take 2 days of time but it will mean he did what he said. He will use that in the next election campaign to show he means what he says. He will have to show also the reasons for the flip flop on income trusts, but that will not be a hard thing to do and most voters were not hurt by it in a big way. He will have a harder time explaining the Unelected Fortier and the switch if a liberal and his appointment, to the people. I think that will cost him some points but not really many. What you are seeing is the CPC setting up for election mode and I would probably say that Harper himself will have the writ dropped if the opposition does not have it done for him. An election campaign takes the shine off of things and gets to the real meat of the matters, and that is where Harper has the advantage. He will have done what he said for most of his promises and will explain those he could not do or flipped on. The people will have to decide. The Sponsorship will still be a deciding factor in Quebec and the whole scanelous finding of Fraser will keep the Liberals at the edge. Duceppe will bring up all the dirt on the Liberals and will do the most harm to them. Harper will only need to say he concurrs. So this vote is the CPC using it place in the house to keep a promise it made. I really do not think it will change things at all, and it will not be brought back by them again. It is not a real brainer to see what this is and why.

Norman You are at this gay thing again. So let me take the devils advocate part. Why would we claim that calling for the death of homosexuals should be a hate crime? It was not that long agao that if you were gay you were sent to prison. That was why many crimes against gays were never reported, as to do so the person would have to admit to being gay. That was 1967, so it was not so long ago. Gays were given legal status but it was not something that was seen openly in the neighbourhoods, but yes all the teens and young adults knew who ere the gay people and for the most part gave them a wide birth. That took well into the 80's early 90's . Then came the gay pride parades which were watched more as freak shows then anything else. It really was not some thing any really cared about. Gays became more public and openly flaunted behaviour that if a hetrosexual did the same would be arrestes for it. Then it came to where gays were openly seeking partners that they knew were straight or maybe too young to know for sure, and that is when we now see the gay movement going back to freakish behaviour. Where girls and boys pretty much try their dating skilles and a no means no, but what they are finding that gay people, take a no as well maybe and then try friend and wait till vulnerable and again push for lover. This is seen all over so please do not deny it. At this very moment gays are given the benefit of the doubt more often then heteral sexuals, and that is not right. When gays expose their gay side and all the rest of their pride, it breaks the laws. The Ottawa gay pride parade had many people laughing and gigiling about what to the ypoungster was touching and posing the bad places that momies and daddies have told then to report to them if anyone ever tries to touch them that way. Now is that something we want our children to see? No, so why are we allowing a parade down Bank St, so these, freaks can put on a show that is only funny to adualt only crowds. So if and when one of these gays trys to touch your kid and you see it and beat the daylights out of him, is it wrong? Yes, but it is also a very large mitigating factor. The crime would not be a hate crime, because it was more lokely a temporaary insanity thing. That is just one long reason why you can not make all those crimes against gays hate crimes. We as a society have allowed the gays way too much leiniency in many things. We alow the pardades etc. so we are not being anti-gay. But when a gay person steps over the line and forces, or touches a child or teen in that wrong way, what happens after that is not a hate crime against gays, but rather child molesters or what ever elkse you want to call it. So yes I am glad that Harper did not vote to make it a hate crime as it clearly can not be shown that all the crimes are hate crimes against gays. Now can we once and for all quit bringing this up in your posts. Or you will make me write even longer winded answers to it.

I tried to get him to change paths but he was determined to get banned as if that was his quest of the day. I agree with the ban not that it matters, but we also must see when these guys go off like that, it would be best not to play to their ideas or lack there of. I know this is not a place to babysit here, and I assume that most of the people here are above the age of majority, but that does not mean they are mature enough to talk about things and not get caught up in the arguments that they just can not let go. Maybe we will have better luck with the rest of the members.

Greg is the webmaster of the board you are on. He is the only one who has banning powers, to use at his discretion. It would be unwise to take a emotional stand up to him as it would be likened to calling the judge in a case an idiot when defending a case against you

I can sympatize with you having a bad temper, and even the statement about implied threats. Let me just let you in on something that happened to me quite a few years ago. I was pretty pissed off at what I was seeing in the government and I was very vocal about the fact that I believed the government was going way too far in things, I totally disagreed with. When at a local watering hole a group of us from NRC (National Research Council) digusted what we felt and there was nothing anyone could do about that. Until I opened up my mouth and mentioned that there really was things that could be done but that I was not sure I could or would do them. Remember I was a Biochemist...... well to make a long story short I was questioned about this by the authorities and I must say that I was sorry I ever publicly said anything. But you can well imagine the many things that have gone on in my mind since that time. So yes while I probably could do some very nasty things, I have now grown out of that faze and can say that I would not do them. But at the time I guess it was a thought and I did some mighty self searching before I realized that it was not all about me, and my ideals, but rather the people as a whole. I am not sure what I would do if I say that the people were being forced down without any say in it, but I would like to think I could again work it out within me. You need to take some time and struggle with the hate, and deal with it within the confines of the law, unless you are sure you are 100% right. Hell I do not agree with many posters on this board but I do have to give them the right to express their view as they see it. Please take your time and find a way to express what you say without the emotion, and you may even win over a few posters here.

I have no problem understanding the point of your posts; however, perception is everything. When you make grammatical errors in your posting its a sure sign of being uneducated. If you are educated, you do understand grammar and you choose to disregard it, then you're simply being disrespectful to the reader. Grammar creates order in your message thereby making it easier for others to read it. It is quite arrogant to say, "you get the intent, that's all that matters", and that's assuming the person does understand the intent. Consider the proper use of the semicolon in the following: Now with semicolons to assist the reader: So, although people may get your point, it is much more respectful to the reader to use proper grammar. I am college educated and yes I have a degree in Biochemistry. I also have a Mechanic's license from when I was young and I am also a cerified electronic technologist. But I will admit that my tech report writing days are long past and yes now I an on a disability pension for the rest of my life. I can if and when I want take the time and be picture perfect in my posts, but one of my disailities is rheumatoid artitis and some times the keys and key boards are not like when I was younger. I do see some errors that take away from my point and correct them, but when I swithch and ie for an ei I just can not waste the effort to correct them. I guess I could use the spell checker but I do not really bother much. My posts will come from a vastly different experience as I was raised in times many hear have only heard of but they do make up the fabric that you call todays society. Rightly or wrongly you can not disregard the posts completely, and when you take it to mean un-educated well, I can assure you I am better educated then many of the posters here, and I am most definitely more experienced then many. I had no problem reading your post even with out the ; in place, but that comes from experience. I also will tell you straight out that the MP's that you elected are so bad in grammar and writing as a whole, that I know of several proof readers who made their living correcting most of what they have ever written. I can says this from all parties as well. I do not wish to make an issue of this and I really am not mad as others have gone. But I do wonder when we see a poster going off the deep end that maybe a post with some humour and guidence may be in order, rather then watching them implode to getting banned.