Jerry J. Fortin

As I was reading the news. I found several articles about Iran/ Perhaps the most troubling was an article about how the price of a barrel of oil going up to 120-150 dollars. The article claimed that it was in response to the EU community and their latest round of sanctions. Iran intends to embargo any oil headed to the EU. Any ideas where all this is going folks? I must admit I don't have a clue about where this issue is going.

So let me get this straight, if somebody thinks they have nothing to lose they can then commit acts of violence, with cause but no responsibility? Violence never was, and never will be, an acceptable solution to anything within the confines of this nation under law. Violence should be the reason to incarcerate citizens in the name of the nation. In fact, violence in the commission of an illegal act, should result in permanent removal from society to a northern latitude for the duration of their natural life. There can be no true hope unless society as a whole embraces an enlightened attitude toward governance. While it is never right to take a life, a zero tolerance for violence must be adhered to. The only available tool for society to punish an individual is the law of the land. Society should seek to stripe the rights of convicted felons and transport them less their property into a modern version of exile. For those who actually take up arms against the nation, or its representatives, such an act will invoke the sanctioned use of deadly force under the pretext of national security by any designated member of any municipality, provincial or federal level of government. In my view, justice is the primary responsibility of any and all level(s) of government.

Which is why I said its all we have left. They also owe us a ton of money........

Oh how I hate it when the truth hurts! I have been had, badly I will add. I guess maybe since I was born the year they killed it, it becomes another factor in my position is that I am an RCAF brat. I see the venture as a national dream, and oh boy do we do well doing that kind of thing! The last true vestige of our efforts was sold off to the USA when we let go of Spar. The Americans wanted that one really bad. So we allowed it to be sold off, bad idea. I watched the de Havilland Aircraft Company of Canada go away. Same for Canadair. Hard to take watching that crap happen. Especially when you think of what we went through to get to where we did in order to have politics crush a national dream. Can't seem to forgive the politicians for that. So many firsts, and we walked away because we tried to rationalize an expense. Dummies..... Oh well, on this subject I fear I will never turn from my belief that we made a mistake with the Arrow. We may well have lead in the space race, that is where those aerospace engineers went when we killed the Arrow. Today we buy what we need or want from somebody else. Nobody seems to care. I say that we have lost something over the years, the will and means to achieve greatness. Its about how we rise to challenges, the desire to overcome impediments. It seems to be all about dollar bills instead of something more substantial like national pride, which now has no value at all. This almost begs the question then of why bother at all? Since the Americans will look out for us anyhow...? I guess we should just go with the flow and be good sheeple towing the party line or something. Yet I can't help to think that this is just like we did back in '59, buy American !! Anybody remember the Western Canadian Defender plane? We used to reach for the stars. now we reach for a credit card. For some reason I think we have lost our way.

Hang on here people! We are talking about big bucks, political allies and potential enemies. Now how can we not see the forest for the trees here? Whether or not the Americans actually build thousands of the planes or not, the promise of jobs are the carrot. That is the point its just a carrot! Here bite this little carrot and continue to do what we tell you to do or no job for you. That is the truth. We are depending on the good graces of the Americans far too much. Instead we should be taking care of our own business. My point about the F22 was that it is at the top of its class, nothing better. Not that it matters to us since we can never buy one. If we had the balls, we could build one. Once again I am talking about forgiving the loans to Bombardier in exchange for a new aircraft. I don't know if they can build it or not, but I am willing to bet they could. Especially considering the size of debt the Government of Canada has allowed them. It would be worth their effort to find out if it could be done. Canada can use about five times what we now have for an air force. That is just to stop anything from getting through to us forget about offensive force projection. We need to defend this nation, not attack another nation. My point in mentioning the Russian and Chinese birds is that they DID build them. Those aircraft are designed to be on pare with aircraft from our side of the equation. If you think otherwise, you are fooling yourself. I for one would see us rethink our military policy, decide what obligations we choose to undertake and then balance that with defending the nation at the borders. If you cannot defend your borders there is not much point in the exercise. So we need to decide what it is that we want before we go off bent on some weird arms race. The F35 is a good bird, no doubt about it. In the RCAF they have pushed multiple engine aircraft until this government. Suddenly the need for two engines disappeared, and no competition was required in this procurement process. Why? http://yachtech.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/f-35-fleet-grounded-due-to-software-issue/I am not convinced about a resolution to this issue. That software is so sensitive that the Canadian government will not have access to it, nor will any other country buying the aircraft. System updates will be done in the USA, PERIOD. My concern with this issue is that WE DON'T GET THE TECHNOLOGY THAT GOES WITH THE BIRDS ! For that reason alone we should be giving our heads a shake. We can't even nail down a unit price because of all the cost overruns! We literally do not know how much we will have to spend on this program. Yet we sit here like bean counters trying to use Enron accounting to prove we got a great deal. No matter how you slice it we are giving away more dollars then we are getting. There is the root problem.

The demise of the Arrow is something well buried. Yet the analogy seems reasonable, if not misguided. I did say that I want the company that builds aircraft in Canada foot the bill. Not the taxpayer. Unlike the Avro problems, Bombardier is already diversified, but the company is still a little shakey despite the billions the tax payer has spent on it. I see this as a way to kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

Great so you actually know how much these things cost. Well, that kinda goes my way doesn't it? Since we can't really think that a non-NATO aircraft would actually be compatible within our little sphere of friends. I think there is still an outstanding software issue associated with this F35 bird that is to this day giving the procurement process some difficulty. Aside from that, and the fact that the US would not sell us F22's even if they were still making them. Lets leave the word treason out of the equation when we consider the tools that we desire for the stated purpose of national defense. It does leave something totally independent, on this I must agree. Lets talk about this point. I firmly believe that this nation has the expertise and the need for leading edge technologies to be applied in our military infrastructure. Design something compatible you say. Hmmm, are we not building a multiple billion dollar new fleet of ships for the navy? Made in Canada aren't they? What about a number of army vehicles? Don't we have the opposite procurement process in both the Army and Navy ? On your second point, maintenance and overhaul are still requirements for all equipment, and I agree that compatibility issues must be considered. So why not design something to take advantage of it? Why not look at it from a different point of view. What we should want to do is build on success. We know what works and we know what we want so why not do it here in Canada instead of buying the products from the USA to in effect subsidize their military industrial complex. I don't think so. More like thank me for bringing an industry that we once damn near lead back home where we can create some jobs and keep some tax payers money in Canada where Fred down the street can have a job at the aircraft factory! I will grant that some maintenance costs with the F35 are said to reduced on a per flying hour basis. That is a projection, not a fact. There is insufficient data to substantiate that claim. Besides I am advocating a Canadian plane approach. Well, I guess I did not make it clear that I prefer a Canadian aircraft considering the extent of the expense and the ongoing costs of operation. Given that I do not think we pose a security threat. The Russians are building the T50, India is buying 200 of them.Russian Press The Chinese are building the J20,linked source We did that already. It part of the procurement process we use, it worked when we bought it and we are making it work now. Should it be replaced? Sure, but we took forever to make up our minds and in the end will we will export billions of dollars to the nation we bought that stuff from. I prefer a home made bang for our buck. We should admit that we have no intention of being a useful partner or any sort of effective player on the international scene. We could go back to having a very small cadre of brave and well trained snipers that have to bum a ride from other partners to get to the scene of any action.I don't think that likely, do you? I certainly do, the F22. Lets back up the truck. We want and need the F22, but we can't have it because the Americans won't sell it to us. So you and folks like you say we should settle for second best and get the F35? I say if we can't buy what we want we are left with no option but to build it ourselves. We did it before and we can do it again. Look at the ship building contracts just announced and where the money is going. It stays at home. Look at the APC's built in Canada, that money stayed home. So why would you advocate outsourcing when you know that we are exporting our dollar bills.

I do not advocate torture, never have. I do advocate removing convicted criminals from society. I do not "enjoy" the punishment part, that is kind of sick in my view. To suggest that because I am against the death penalty that I enjoy torture is not merely a stretch but an outright misrepresentation of what I have said. I would appreciate it if folks would beat me up for what I do say instead of what they THINK I said. I object to people putting words in my mouth. I don't support the tin foil hat concept of using foam bats to tackle crime instead of a service revolver. I object to "the Great One" being used as a foil in some cheap internet argument. That man is likely more man that all of us on this board put together, I respect him for his works. To return to the point, I do nor support the death penalty because we make mistakes. You wish to discuss responsibility, that is a different matter entirely. I believe the government is responsible for every repeat offender they let them out in society, period. There are two kinds of felons, violent ones are the ones that society MUST address.

When the Arrow was canceled we destroyed both the planes and to a very real extent our entire aerospace industry. That was four decades ago, and we now have nothing like the Arrow. To boot we are again looking at spending billions of tax dollars outside the country for weapons to protect the country. That is nuts. Bombardier can and does build aircraft. They are in fact just like Avro, before the Arrow. It can be done, and that company can do it. I guess I think that we should put them to a test, build us a fighter jet or pay us back our money.

I did not say it would be easy BC. I just said that I think its the best way to get our money back from them. They are after all the third largest manufacturer of aircraft in the world, and they owe us big bucks. We need birds and they build them for a living. Sounds like a functional concept to me. This would take years, that is true. It would cost lots of money, and we already paid for it. So there is simply no reason not to do this.

Yes we do need to reform the system. These criminals that populate the jails of this nation cost the tax paying citizen lots and lots of money every year. In fact I think you will find, should you care to look into this accusation, that it costs more keep a criminal in jail for a year than the average citizen makes in a year. We have managed to turn a justice system into a penal system. Everything is mitigated six ways from Sunday to turn political correctness into the driving force of the entire system. Some will say that we built a system of justice that we could afford. I will say that we have turned the system upside down with political correctness. Since I do not believe in the death penalty, I am compelled to support a system whereby the criminal was removed from our society in order to protect our society. Take them north, Baffin should be a southward place for criminals. All violent offenders should be permanently removed from society, never to return. No second chances, no three strike before you are out. Just pronounced guilty and "transported" to someplace they could never escape from. I suggest these things because there are more second offenders then first offenders going to trial. In my view the court system is letting society down for allowing the convicted felon out and enabling the perpetrator the best opportunity to commit another offense, the freedom to choose. In my opinion justice can only be delivered though the removal of the potential threat to society by removing the convicted felon from society.

Both the Russians and the Chinese have 5th gen fighters. The Americans just shut down the F22 program. We are lead to believe that our best bet is the F35, but this is all very subjective reasoning. Look folks the kind of investment required to build your own air force appears to be overwhelming. That is the perception, but not really the reality. For the kind of money we are talking about it simply makes no sense to outsource the issue. I laugh when I hear the guesstimates of how much we think we should spend. These are very expensive toys to play with, forget about the initial cost of the aircraft think about operating costs and maintenance costs. If dollar bills are in question you might as well forget about these toys. Too bad we can't just make it a dollar bill issue instead of a national security issue. So we can't run away from the problem, we have to deal with it then. Okay, fine, so be it, BUT, that being the case we need to manage the effort and expense to the tax payer who will fund the program one way or another. That means we MUST do this in house. This kind of national effort is too sensitive to outsource, so it needs to be done here. Now after saying all of this, I suggest that the Government of Canada tap our biggest Canadian aircraft manufacturer and have them cough up an aircraft for us in lieu of those billions of dollars that the tax paying citizens of this nation gave them. Am I dreaming? Actually no, I am just saying that we are never likely to see a dime from those loans, and why not give those folks a nice little challenge. You build us some birds, and we will actually pay for them.

I wish there was at least the perception of competition for the bidding of this contract for the RCAF. I will get laughed at for this but there is a few other aircraft that could be looked at.

That is true! I dream of the day where the government actually listens to the people instead of the power brokers.

I think ALL political parties need to adapt to the more modern democratic model. To merely change their premises is not enough, the goal should be to improve citizen input, to make democracy more functional instead of more divisional.

Political lobby's will always attempt to influence the decision making process. Unless we want to ban them altogether then we will have to do things differently.

In my opinion, we simply cannot return to the death penalty. Having said that we do need to reform this system by a large measure.

I also agree. Yet on the other hand funding propaganda services is over the top with regard to spending issues.

They probably spend it. No wait a second, they meant to take the two billion and bleed of the interest to fund the program bureaucratic expenses.!!!!

That is the way I see it as well.

In Alberta, as almost everywhere else in the world that do have crude oil assets, there are numerous rates. New wells get a royalty tax break for the first year. That way investments expenses are deducted upfront. A sliding scale is usually applies thereafter. The oil sands projects had literally decades of tax holidays , they are now paying out royalties at long last. Please keep in mind that royalties are not the taxes that companies pay during the tax year. That is another kettle of fish entirely. You need to be a genius bean counter to wade through this stuff, but the best info I have seen yet is the governments own data.Alberta Government - energy

Quite frankly, I believe the world needs more Canada and needs Canada to continue to play an active role," MacKay said in his prepared remarks. Read more: http://www.canada.com/technology/Canada+joins+military+satellite+program+million/6010391/story.html#ixzz1k1eVeD00 What has the world come to when I would agree and support something Peter MacKay said.

Our PM just made headlines by saying he was scared of Iran. Afraid? Really? Well what can we expect from a guy who never worked for a living! Meanwhile I read some folks want to privatize search and rescue operations, lets hope not. Blinders on? How about calling a spade a spade and just say what we now have in government is the blind leading the blind. We have about twenty times more need then realization of being able to even WATCH our borders and shores. The lip service given to that little detail angers me to a very large degree. I really like the idea of V22's for SAR though. I also like the idea of at least starting to add to our naval defense capabilities, but on the other hand we are really talking about taking older ships of the line out of service and merely replacing them. So we will have new toys, but no real increase in our ability to project force. I don't think we will ever see an interventionist policy for our military, because that is not who we are. In order to do that we would have to increase spending to the degree that would nearly bankrupt the nation, not a good plan if the nation is not under some DIRECT THREAT.

I think we should do a great deal more upgrading refining here in Alberta. In fact, if I had my way the only way oil would be leaving Alberta would be in little one litre bottles. We need to get a grip one this before it gets any worse than it already is. Anybody here know that the word bitumen and crude oil are two very different things? Does everyone here know that royalty rates vary, with the word bitumen used in these royalty terms to create a 50% discount! The oil biz is very complicated and riddled with powerful and wealthy people. That is the foundation of very tricky politics. That is what Alberta has been dealing with since Leduc #1 !

Sorta yes and sorta no. Social Credit is as dead as a door nail. Social Credit should never have been a political party, it was a political philosophy when created. If you like Keynes you will not like C.H.Douglas. With a little Alberta twist, they ran the province for decades.