NativeCharm

Are you meaning to imply that you think the Stand off at Six nations is violent? and if so, from what end? Agressive action does not always trigger violence so much as its simply intended for results...key word here being "action".

I was just wondering...Do River and Kindred share the same brain? Did they both just fall off the turnip truck? What the heck, they are doing EXACTLY what the thread starter asked them NOT TO DO? Where is the respect here fella's???? I was also wondering if you smart assed tongue twisters who like to speak before you think ...KnoW exactly how many commercial fisheries from OUTSIDE our country are allowed to prosper before any other citizen does? I don't think either one of you twits have the educational background on fisheries to contribute anything valuable to this topic. Just because you can do internet research does NOT make you an expert. Again, the real issue here is - you want to contribute to the government chokehold on our economical strength by falsely accusing our people of mishandling our resources. Heres the big ol' F U mofo's! ( raises middle finger). You make your people look bad.

Hello Everyone. Due to the rampant success of this thread (WTG Enskat )I felt it necessary to start a new subject in the FEDERAL heading as often this thread subject went off topic and there is obviously some underlying issues to the Caledonia situtation and the average Canadian's opinion of Natives and the government debt to the Idigenous people. Six Nations Crisis- "Canada's Pandora's Box?" I welcome those of you with open minds to the discussion. I have invited many of my Native and Non-Native associates to participate in hopes of increasing the national awareness of Canadian Native people and gain more understanding of the opinions of other fellow Canadians.

Six Nations Crisis- “Canada’s Pandora’s Box?” With today’s increasing and aggressive actions by Native people to obtain concrete resolutions to land claims, will we see an increase of racism and hostility or an increased awareness of our Native people and Canada’s misinformed history? The Caledonia carnival of controversy has been stirring up debates all over the country. While some discussions are heated with hostile racism, others have steered to a new road of informative education that many Canadian citizens were completely unaware of. See example of other thread click here I felt it was necessary to start this thread in a national header as the issues underlying the Caledonia situation and the Six Nations crisis stem from the lack of knowledge in the following areas, treaties, taxation and the constitutional rights of Aboriginal people. Hopefully this thread will shed some much needed insight and knowledge of these issues from a variety of Canadian perspectives. While I encourage all opinions, it will be beneficial to all to have comments that provide informative links, educational facts or practical solutions for consideration.

Of course the "white folks" want the "RIGHT" to preserve their own culture. There are children in Holland that speak Dutch and children in France that speak French, there are children all over the world that speak their language in their country...and yet in Canada (our home and Native land) the Native peoples DO NOT have this. Our language and culture was taken from us. Banned. Outlawed. Rights? Are we really going to discuss rights again? what the colonial government has done to our people IS NOT RIGHT. They took our language, culture and customs, why not take our land? What is right , is when people take the time and make the effort to educate themselves on our issues and in the very least if they can't help make a difference...then help share understanding.

Please forgive me but I have yet to master the art of “quoting” in this forum. So I’ll just make a general statement. I have never proclaimed myself as an expert. However, I do have the honor of walking and living in 3 worlds. I have been employed to conduct and lead research for government and Natives on a variety of subjects (mostly civilization/ treaty interpretation/water/residential schools). I am most familiar with Treaty 6, 7, and 8 as well I am extremely well versed on our nations Metis people, most particularly Alberta. I have been a mentored student of many chiefs (and grand chiefs), Canadian political leaders (Native and non-native) and I currently own my own business that delivers educational and youth services in Native and non-Native rural and remote communities. My educational (text book) background is Native studies and business commerce. As well, I have been an active part of the mainstream and Native media since I was knee high to a grasshopper. Yes, I do have a unique perspective on today’s Canadian issues with the Native people. Arguably, I am far from being an expert, but many can agree that I am a worthy contributor to assisting in the education of our Native and non- Native peoples of Canada. Equality is dream chasing and it’s surreal. Our people have been fighting for basic civilian rights and have only been recognized (barely) in the past 30 years or so. Equality is far off and anyone who thinks it is near, is clearly delusional. There are far more pressing and realistic issues with practical solutions than preaching the far-fetched reality of “equality”. Equality for whom? Humans will never be equal. We are all too different. If you want equality then basically you are saying you want one almighty race of the planet. Which seems quite boring to me, as I am an individualist. If you mean “Equality” as a citizen of the country, then I personally feel the government (and the majesty) should honor the land claims/ issues/ entitlements to the country’s Indigenous people and perhaps negotiate a gradual dissemination of the treaty rights (for the sake of other “equal” citizens). Then, perhaps we will feel more equal in our own country that is home to our ancestors and historical artifacts. The treaty rights are here and recognized because they are a legitimate piece of our history. I believe in human evolution above all and I feel it’s imperative to preserve traditional societies for the sake of ‘authentic’ global colors. I also believe in EQUALITY to COMMERCE. I will debate anytime, anywhere with anyone on these issues where I can provide more than a plethora of cases that demonstrate the government chokehold on our Native people and their drive for economical strength and fiscal identity. The land issues really have nothing to do with race (it’s not our fault, we’re Native, its our blessing), although some may argue- if we were “non-Natives” than perhaps the “deals” would have been honored a long time ago. Our societal intellect was grossly underestimated when we were/ are regarded as a ‘savage’ race with no sense of the legal or business system of which our country is currently governed. The difference today, is that many of our people are more educated (text book) and more legally astute and are insisting that our history be not only recognized but also respected. This entire thread was initiated for the speculation of Native/ authentic Canadian history in the educational system. It’s true that the educational system has failed all Canadians and new citizens by not including a LARGE portion of our country’s FACTS. Subliminal programming I guess. I mean heck, our home economics books were teaching the young woman to practically worship men right up until the late 50’s. So it doesn’t surprise me that this great country of ours conveniently left out the little “Indian problem” when they were educating citizens. The treaties are very much a large part of our history and I think it’s wonderful that the Native people have been a major contributor to the global identity of our country. It’s OUR art and “Indian faces” that are promoted globally as representative tokens of this country. Yet, seldom are real Native artists even employed for this tourist marketing strategy. I constantly have to explain to tourists and my friends from other parts of the world that we do not live in teepees or igloos. It’s a crying shame that a majority of the non-Native civilization of Canada does not even know the difference between Iroquois, Haida and Inuit. Let the education commence.

Kindred, seems to me as though you have a problem with any Natives experiencing any level of economical benefit. So much so that you will paint any situation any colour so not to blind your eyes with reality. Typical anglo. Please stop fabricating our business history and tactics which you already have a strong misinterpretation of. Purchase and absorb some authentic Native history and enlighten yourself before making any more absurd comments, unless you don't mind being laughed at.

Ditto on the thanks

Thanks for picking up the ball on that one GC, sometimes the ignorance here gets too overwhelming. Hopefully some of these people will actually learn something instead of using this public forum as a breeding ground for hostility and racism.

Our thoughts exactly!

Yadeee Yadee Yadee! This entire country was built on victimizing people and our dow jones is a product of our ongoing victimization. If you want sympathy its between shit and syphillis in the dictionary, both of which I'm sure you are familiar!

Betsy, Just because you can type and function in a forum hardly entitles you to being a “mental” representative of the masses. If that is the case, then I am starting to feel pity for the “victims” simply for the fact that they send someone such as yourself, who is unaware and unwilling to take an intellectual viewpoint on the entire situation. Betsy, I won’t debate with you anymore because your mind is so narrow you can’t put a pin through it. Do your “victims” a favor for their future and educate yourself, if you’ve got an issue with my remarks perhaps you will consider THINKING BEFORE you stereoTYPE! But please, don’t hurt yourself. For those of you that don’t know, here it is. Our “misplaced little protest” has remained a non terrorist act because the women (the clan mothers) have been heading the frontline and most of the talks. Ideally, they have been the prime decision makers in respect to the operation and negotiation. And when support ( or goons,terrorist, hijackers etc, as you like to call them) were called in, they were specifically instructed to remain calm, composed and act according to the Clan Mothers. In the beginning of the protest, the Six Nations people specifically pleaded to the rest of the Native people, NOT to come to Caledonia for it would only intensify the situation. Eventually support was called in many forms and it has (over and over again) been made crystal clear by the clan mothers that violence was not the answer and our people were to respect that. Which we were all doing. However, DEFENDING ourselves is …what term does lil Betsy use? Oh yeah…HUMAN NATURE!

Depends on how much. Mexico and Argentina have refused to pay foreign debts. This annoyed a lot of people but they more or less got away with it. In any case, within a single country gov't has the power to restribute wealth through taxation so any cash settlement could be immediately taxed by by the gov't. That is just another reason why native treaties are a political and not a legal issue. I have to disagree on that statement because this country's wealth has been based on land and it's resources. If we didn't have the resources and development there would BE NO INCOME TAX contributions. Again, why would the country not honour a signed agreement? Don't even bother asking, cause we have a TRILLION valid answers to that one.

Thanks for the data. Either way something has to be done, because the issues will not simply GO away. Changing the laws to suit the gov't agenda will not create anything other than National mayhem, and ( I've always agreed to this) tax payers should NOT be carrying the financial burden of this REAL debt. However, if Canada owed that type of money to another country, wouldn't we as citizens also be responsible for our contribution?

The diamonds and the tar sands would be still in the ground if those companies had not invested a lot of money developing the technology to extract the resources. Furthermore, native groups outside of northern alberta and NWT have no claim on these resources. Ok now you're making me laugh again! It's becoming more and more obvious whose payroll your on You really wanna discuss resource and development with me Riv? Cause I don't think there's enough space in this forum for me to unleash!

I have already showed you that statement is completely false - please stop repeating it. Resource royalties paid to all levels of government in Canada are somewhere between 20-30 billion per year. Income and sales taxes bring in close to $300 billion. Actually I want some proof on that please if you don't mind. Also, Income and SALES tax, how much is from income and how much is from sales?

Just for you Riv, for all the times you've made me laugh. Now go do your homework. You know damn well settlement funds can come from other sources other than OUR tax dollars. Canada is the third largest producer of diamonds,has 10 per cent of the worldsforests,and mines 60 metals and minerals. Oil is now over $72 a barrel,up from $10 a barrel in 1999,and there are,1.4 trillion barrels of oil in the tar sands plus hundreds of other oil and gas producing areas.canada had eight straight federal government surpluses,a 2005 reported net worth of $4.5 trillion ,and gdp over a trillion dollars.today the federal government raises far more revenue from its share of resource royalties than it does from income taxes. This statement is one of the primary reasons for the trillion dollar debt owed to Native nations in Canada. How bout we increase the taxes on the corporations that are savaging our lands? Lest we forget to mention that the size of the fines these guys get for violating our laws is ridiculous! Stop blamin "ol' Indian"!

I know there are 600+ bands in Canada. Some of them, like the Nisga, are willing to be practical and cut a deal taht is fair to both sides. Unfortunately, there are always going to be some bands that expect the moon and make a lot of noise when they told where to go. Well I don't think the Six Nations people are asking for the moon. Yes, some will always cause more shit than others, HOWEVER it donesn't mean you can put all the eggs in one pot. That's like saying if Betsy acted like a monkey, she's really a monkey, and anyone thats looks like her is a monkey too.

"You can''t weasel out that easily. You are the one who said: 'I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!!" I assume Betsy's ass is pink ...from the way she talks and banters one can only assume that she's had her ass beat before. You feel it's fair (not that I care) that she can weasel out of saying that anyone involved with the blockade on Six nations territory is a terrorist? I don't think so!!!! If you're gonna back your little buddy up, you might wanna put a muzzle on her or let her take care of herself. She self identified her own stupidity. In regards to the billions of dollars from campaigning politicians....Riv have you ever actually sat down and had a REAL discussion with any our leaders? From your presumptions, I doubt it. I'm sure you absorb only what you see in the media. You assume that that is what they want. In reality, they want a settlement that is fair for everyone involved. Unlike our counterparts, we can be fair and realistic. The statements of billions is what is owed, not entirely what is sought.

This holds no weight and is merely a theory that is meant to imply the protests don't work. So far so good, I say. We are finally getting some action from the government, worldwide attention, worthy media involvement and above all, nation wide UNITY. The only economy being affected in that target region is the community of the illegal residents. Try again Riv, maybe get one of your buddies to help stretch your rubber arm And noticeably, I didn't say "white", you did. Oddly you connect racist and white together. Well, I guess not so odd.

ME? Listen sweetheart, be careful before you start trying to label me as a terrorist in my own fucking country, cause I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!! Seems to me like you many of "you's in here" have a beef with the Natives that have land entitlements and don't pay taxes...AND you're discriminating to those of us that do PAY taxes. You too may have a legitimate reason to be angry, but you can't disrespect a Nation of peoples that is simply defending what is theirs. I assume Caledonia would be doing the same. As far as bad guys, you're only trying to paint black kettles. There is more than an ample amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates the ongoing rasicm, hate crimes, DRUNK behaviour, public disorder and COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE LAW...by Caledonia Residents. Apparently Caledonia has a real beef to, that they too should be directing at the government. But it seems like the folks were just WAITING for another reason to hate the "Indians". And to answer your answer question, on why they should have to put up with it. Well it's simple. Their living on land that isn't theirs. In fact, it's almost like they live in another country. They should be asking their mayors and leaders for historical data and EXPLANATIONS on WHY they were allowed to set up on homestead on someone elses land..INSTEAD of asking the government for violence and a fucking handout that my hard earned taxes have to pay for!!! Next time, Betsy, can you please keep your statements and questions on a more intelligent level, keep up with the crowd will ya? Read and understand, Native Charm. Don't let all your misplaced anger get the better of you. The land may be yours....or not. The problem is still between you and the government. The residents of Caledonia are the victims here. It all boils down to that simple fact. You may not see it that way....but I'm sure other Canadians following the incidents are looking at your antics in a very different light. Yes, for some (like me)....I can't help but equate the situation to terrorism! Too bad...but that's the way I see it. And I don't like the idea that it's being done in my own country! And that some of my innocent countrymen are needlessly suffering. These are some of the emotions this issue is evoking to other bystanders like me as we watch the scene unfold! I put myself in their shoes. That's why I'm saying, this is only hurting your cause. At another time and another place, perhaps I would've understood and emphatized with you. But not on this one. And Caledonia does not have to put pressure on the government and carry your torch for you...as a trade off for them to have their normal lives back. If you want to protest....you can have your protest, without having to hurt anyone. BooHoo on you and your crying the "victim" game. According to our country standards and your own, that doesn't work anymore. Do you and your fellow "countrymen a.k.a SQUATTERS" a big favour and get off someone elses property and perhaps their livelihood wont be affected as long as it had been to our people. Again, I see the limit of your intellect and your selective compassion. The government has been applying "terrorist" tactics on our people even in current day, yet, I don't see your emapthy towards your brown "countrymen". You're a racist and you lack the audacity to admit it. P.S. when the "squatters" finally do move, recommend that they chose somewhere other than Six Nations( the Haldimand Tract), as well~ doing proper research before making any other land purchase with "our tax paying" dollars. Then again, if they're good tenants and neighbours perhaps they will be allowed to stay. I have no idea on that particular subject, as of yet.

FYI Thursday, June 22, 2006: McGuinty calls for Six Nations to leave reclamation site; Henco to be paid $12.3 million plus additional money for "loss of future profits" Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty asks Six Nations people to leave the reclamation site, saying there's "no need" for an ongoing presence as the colonial government is now paying attention to the issue of land theft. McGuinty also discloses that the province has agreed to pay $12.3 million to buy out Henco, with ongoing negotiations for "an additional amount to be paid for the loss of future profits". Finally paying attention to LAND THEFT, yep If I lived in Caledonia I'd be woried and pissed off to. Both parties need to hold the gov't accountable and demand prompt action on this one. For the sake of everyone, afterall it's already too late for the children, they have now been taught to hate the "indians" and the "whites". Lovely mess, just FN lovely. While everyones sitting here pointing the finger at everyone else, but the culprit.

I never said that chiefs are the root of all Native financial evils. However, it is true that some chiefs pocket more money at the expense of the rest of the band. That is a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. I would like your opinion on how to go about solving this problem (if you do recognize that it is a problem). Oh it's a problem alright, but let's tend to our problems in a chronological manner. My suggestion for this problem for those "some" chiefs is that the people need to be educated on commerce, accountability and transparent funding/ spending. Scenario: When members hear" the band just got a million dollars" many of them start thinking.." where's my cut?". Little do they realize that the band is in a defict cause of the new school, or the fresh water system. Some do, Some don't. Might I suggest some reading material for you? Taiaiake Alfred writes about how we lost several generations of our leaders simply because they were acting like the white ones. Interesting none the less. Again, in case you missed my suggestion: people need to be educated on commerce, accountability and transparent funding/ spending.

Well, whether your rationale is right or wrong....it still does not justify your actions. Your beef is with the government. You're taking your frustrations out on residents who have nothing to do with your problems. You've practically hijacked a town and crippled its businesses (not to mention the aggravation and inconveniences on the residents) in your attempt to get your own way. In gangsta world, this is similar to extortion. In current global stituations...this is terrorism. You may have a legitimate reason to be angry....but you're whipping the wrong folks. Why should they have to put up with it? So you can't blame others living outside of Caledonia to emphatize with what those residents are going through. Of course, the sympathy goes to them. And that's hurting your cause....because you're looking like the bad guys. ME? Listen sweetheart, be careful before you start trying to label me as a terrorist in my own fucking country, cause I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!! Seems to me like you many of "you's in here" have a beef with the Natives that have land entitlements and don't pay taxes...AND you're discriminating to those of us that do PAY taxes. You too may have a legitimate reason to be angry, but you can't disrespect a Nation of peoples that is simply defending what is theirs. I assume Caledonia would be doing the same. As far as bad guys, you're only trying to paint black kettles. There is more than an ample amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates the ongoing rasicm, hate crimes, DRUNK behaviour, public disorder and COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE LAW...by Caledonia Residents. Apparently Caledonia has a real beef to, that they too should be directing at the government. But it seems like the folks were just WAITING for another reason to hate the "Indians". And to answer your answer question, on why they should have to put up with it. Well it's simple. Their living on land that isn't theirs. In fact, it's almost like they live in another country. They should be asking their mayors and leaders for historical data and EXPLANATIONS on WHY they were allowed to set up on homestead on someone elses land..INSTEAD of asking the government for violence and a fucking handout that my hard earned taxes have to pay for!!! Next time, Betsy, can you please keep your statements and questions on a more intelligent level, keep up with the crowd will ya?