Rue

Here is a web-site of Lutheran physicians who have the nerve to differentiate homo-sexuality and pehophilia; http://perham.eot.com/~vati/peterson/defs.html "DEFINITIONS Sexual orientation Sexual orientation refers to stable sexual attractions, desires and fantasies toward other men and women. Sexual orientation is sub-defined as how erotic sexual desire correlates with gender, whether for the opposite sex (heterosexual orientation), for the same sex (homosexual orientation) or for both sexes (bisexual orientation). These differences exist in a continuum from heterosexual (about 94% of the population) to homosexual (about 4% of the population), with bisexuals comprising about 1% and other conditions making up the final 1% or less. Homosexuality Homosexuality refers to dominant erotic desire for someone of the same sex without denoting that same-sex behavior is necessarily present. This distinction is important because the term may be applied to adolescents before they engage in any intimate sexual behavior, to a celibate homosexual person, or a homosexual person who is married to someone of the opposite sex. Thus if homosexuality is condemned, it literally means persons with the desire are condemned irrespective of behavior. The current scientific definition of homosexuality for this discussion is a normal variant of sexual desire and expression. Homosexual and heterosexual The words homosexual and heterosexual are used as nouns to denote a homosexual person ("he is a homosexual, she is heterosexual," etc.). The word homosexual is often used as an adjective ("homosexual behavior" or "heterosexual rape," etc.) but literally this use of the words should designate what is the intrinsic sexual desire of the person or persons. This is important because some heterosexual persons engage in same-sex behavior and some homosexual persons engage in opposite-sex behavior, so the dominant desire cannot always be inferred because of the behavior. Therefore at times the adjective "same-sex" may be more accurate. Pedophilia and pederasty When used in a general sense, these words refer to adult sexual encounters with children. Pedophilia as a noun refers to a diagnosis of one of many paraphilias which, unlike homosexuality, are pathological diagnoses of mental disorders characterized by abnormalities of intention: varying degrees of selfish disregard for the well being (possible destructive effects) on the partner instead of respect and mutually acceptable cooperation for mutual pleasure. A pedophile is someone whose dominant sexual orientation is for children. When used as an adjective, "pedophile behavior" may not refer to a pathological pedophile but to adult-child sexual abuse by a heterosexual or a homosexual who does not meet the diagnostic criteria of fixated pedophilia. It follows that conflation and confusion of pedophilia or any undesignated same-sex child molestation with homosexuality, whether intentional or not, unjustly stigmatizes homosexuals. (Over 95% of all child molesters self-identify themselves as heterosexual). A pedophile is distinguished from a teleiophile (heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual) whose dominant or exclusive attraction is for adults (but some of whom occasionally molest children). (Paraphrased from Levine in Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry, Kaplan and Sadock, eds., 7th Edition, 2000). " PLEASE NOTE A TELEIOPHILE IS THE WORD USED FOR AN ADULT HETERO-SEXUAL, BI-SEXUAL OR HOMO-SEXUAL WHO OCCASSIONALY MOLESTS CHILDREN. THE WORD TELEIOPHILE IS USED SPECIFICALLY AND DELIBERATELY SO THAT PEOPLE DO NOT EWRRONEOUSLY SUGGEST ANY SEX WITH CHILDREN IS HETERO, BI OR HOMO-SEXUAL.

Here is some more info I have found in a medical article that the Kapitan can say he is not aware of or does not understand. You can find the full text yourself at; www.medicinenet.com Explaining Pedophilia What Is Pedophilia? WebMD Feature The biggest misunderstanding many people have is that pedophilia and homosexuality are one and the same. But to say that all homosexuals are pedophiles, or that all pedophiles are homosexual, is like comparing apples to rat poison. "They certainly are two distinct things," says James Hord, a psychologist in Panama City, Fla., who specializes in treating sexually abused children. Hord explains that while some pedophiles may prefer boys over girls, or vice versa, it's not so much about gender as it is about age. For homosexuals, Hord says, sexual preference is "simply not linked to the age." If a man, for instance, is attracted to other adult males, he is a homosexual. A man who is sexually attracted to male children is not considered a homosexual: He is a pedophile. Insecurity at Heart of Pedophilia As with all things sexual, however, it's not always so simple. Heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual men and women may become sexually attracted to children even though they're also attracted to adults. When this happens, it's usually because of insecurity or stress in an adult relationship, says Anthony Siracusa, a psychologist in Williamstown, Mass., who specializes in treating abused kids and sexual offenders. These people, Siracusa says, are called "regressed offenders" because they have literally regressed: They lose the social skills they need to deal with other adults, which makes children more attractive to them. Regressed offenders may "bounce back and forth" between normal sexual relationships and criminal relations with children. Insecurity, Hord agrees, is at the heart of pedophilia. Typically, pedophiles have trouble relating to people their own age. They need to feel they have power and control in a relationship, which is easy with children. Homosexuality was, in fact, listed as a mental illness in psychiatry's main reference book, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, until the third edition came out in 1980. This edition included a category for homosexuals who were troubled by their sexuality and wanted to change it. All mention of homosexuality, however, was purged from the manual by 1987. According to a 1994 statement from the American Psychiatric Association, the change came after decades of research showed that "a significant portion of gay and lesbian people were clearly satisfied with their sexual orientation" and showed no signs of mental illness. "It was also found that homosexuals were able to function effectively in society, and those who sought treatment most often did so for reasons other than their homosexuality." Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal, because it is truly a disease. None of the things that make homosexuality a normal variation of human sexuality apply to pedophilia. Originally published April 8, 2002. Medically updated March 21, 2005.

I find it unfortunate that I have to reproduce verbatum the psychiatric diagnostic manual's definition of pedophilia but since the Kapitan claims he can't find it and can't see anywhere where the is a reference to age, once and for all I want this kind of ignorance and smear exposed for what it is and no I do not buy it for a second the Kapitan does not understand the difference between person who consents to same sex with an adult and sex sex with a child, and honestly believes they both can be called homo-sexual behaviour. I don't buy it for a second. Its typical of people who want to smear homo-sexuals to suggest they engage in something the SAME as pedophilia and not differentiate the two. That is precisely why we have a manual and standard treatment protocols-exactly so people like the Kapitan can not use these clinical words incorrectly to support their "Christian" agendas. Medical Library Printer-friendly format Fact Sheet: Pedophilia Most adults who sexually molest children are considered to have pedophilia, a mental disorder described in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV). An adult who engages in sexual activity with a child is performing a criminal and immoral act that never can be considered normal or socially acceptable behavior. Pedophilia is categorized in the DSM-IV as one of several paraphiliac mental disorders. The essential features of a paraphilia (sexual deviation) are recurrent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors that generally involve nonhuman subjects, the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner, or children or other nonconsenting persons. The Characteristics of Pedophilia According to the DSM-IV definition, pedophilia involves sexual activity by an adult with a prepubescent child. Some individuals prefer females, usually 8- to 10-year-olds. Those attracted to males usually prefers slightly older children. Some prefer both sexes. While some are sexually attracted only to children, others also are sometimes attracted to adults. Pedophiliac activity may involve undressing and looking at the child or more direct physical sex acts. All these activities are psychologically harmful to the child, and some may be physically harmful. In addition, individuals with pedophilia often go to great lengths to obtain photos, films or pornographic publications that focus on sex with children. These individuals commonly explain their activities with excuses or rationalizations that the activities have "educational value" for the child, that the child feels "sexual pleasure" from the activities or that the child was "sexually provocative." However, child psychiatrists and other child development experts maintain that children are incapable of offering informed consent to sex with an adult. Furthermore, since pedophiliac acts harm the child, psychiatrists condemn publications or organizations that seek to promote or normalize sex between adults and children. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders The purpose of the DSM-IV (and of the manuals which preceded it) is to provide clear, objective descriptions of mental illnesses, based on scientific data. Psychiatrists and research scientists use these descriptions to diagnose an individual's mental illness, to communicate with each other in a common language about mental illnesses, to develop new treatments tailored to specific illnesses and to plan the most effective treatments for their patients. The DSM-IV is not a diagnostic "cookbook," but is intended to guide the psychiatrist's own informed clinical judgment. The DSM-IV and its predecessors are not legal documents. The cautionary statement in the introduction to the DSM-IV reads, in part: "The purpose of the DSM-IV is to provide clear descriptions of diagnostic categories in order to enable clinicians and investigators to diagnose, communicate about, study and treat people with various mental disorders. It is to be understood that inclusion here, for clinical and research purposes, of a diagnostic category such as Pathological Gambling or Pedophilia does not imply that the condition meets legal or other nonmedical criteria for what constitutes mental disease, mental disorder or mental disability. The clinical and scientific considerations involved in categorization of these conditions as mental disorders may not be wholly relevant to legal judgments, for example, that take into account such issues as individual responsibility, disability determination and competency." Individuals with pedophilia may limit their activities to their own children, stepchildren or relatives, or they may victimize children outside their families. Some threaten the child to prevent the child from telling others. Some develop complicated techniques for gaining access to children. They may select a job, hobby or volunteer work that brings them into contact with children. Others may win the trust of a child's mother, marry a woman with an attractive child or trade children with other individuals. Except when pedophilia also is associated with sexual sadism, the individual may be kind and attentive to the child's needs in order to gain his or her affection, interest and loyalty, and also to prevent the child from reporting the sexual activity. Pedophilia usually begins in adolescence, although some individuals report they did not become aroused by children until middle age. Often the pedophiliac behavior increases or decreases according to the psychological and social stress level of the individual. There is little information on the number of individuals in the general population with pedophilia because individuals with the disorder rarely seek help from a psychiatrist or other mental health professional. However, the large commercial market in pedophiliac pornography suggests that the number of individuals at large in the community with the disorder is likely to be higher than the limited medical data indicate. Individuals generally come to the attention of mental health professionals when their child victims tell others and when they are arrested. Pedophilia is almost always seen in males and is seldom diagnosed in females. How Psychiatrists Diagnose Pedophilia When evaluating who may have pedophilia, psychiatrists apply three criteria spelled out in the DSM-IV. (See "DSM-IV Criteria for Pedophilia," below.) All three must be present for the diagnosis to be made. Whether or not all three criteria are present, an individual who has had a sexual encounter with a child has committed a crime. Psychiatrists nationwide support the federal and state statutes that define the criminality of any sexual act or molestation involving a child. Treatment for Pedophilia Pedophilia generally is treated with cognitive-behavioral therapy. The therapy may be prescribed alone or in combination with medication. Some examples of medications that have been used include anti-androgens and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (commonly called SSRIs). But unlike the successful treatment outcomes for most other mental illnesses, the outlook for successful treatment and rehabilitation of individuals with pedophilia is guarded. Even after intensive treatment, the course of the disorder usually is chronic and lifelong in most patients, according to the DSM-IV, which is the reason that most treatment programs emphasize a relapse-prevention model. However, both the fantasies and the behaviors often lessen with advancing age in adults. Additional Reading Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), 1994, 886 pages, ISBN 0-89042-062-9, paperback, $42.95 (plus $5.00 shipping), Order #2062. Order From: American Psychiatric Press, Inc., 1400 K Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20005. DSM-IV Criteria for Pedophilia Over a period of at least six months, recurrent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 or younger). Has the person had repeated fantasies or urges about engaging in sexual activity with a child generally 13 years or younger, or has he actually had sexual encounters with a child? If a psychiatrist sees an individual who has engaged in sexual contact with a child, the diagnosis of pedophilia should be strongly considered. (An individual who committed a single act of molestation while under the influence of drugs, for example, but who had not intentionally targeted a child and was unaware of the victim's age, would not receive the diagnosis. However, this of course in no way diminishes the seriousness of the act of molestation.) A person need not have actual sexual contact with a child to be diagnosed with pedophilia. A person who is preoccupied with sexual urges and fantasies that disturb his functioning (that is, negatively affect his relations with others or impair his ability to work effectively) could also be diagnosed as having pedophilia, even without ever engaging in a sex act with a child. The fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning. Is the problem clinically significant? That is, has it caused "significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning?" (Note: The same criterion is applied throughout the DSM-IV to other mental illnesses.) Under this criterion, a sexual encounter with a child constitutes "clinical significance." To make a DSM-IV diagnosis, the psychiatrist assesses the individual for either clinically significant distress or clinically significant impairment. Most individuals with psychiatric symptoms experience a subjective sense of distress that may include feelings such as pain, anguish, dysphoria (unpleasant mood), shame, embarrassment or guilt. However, there are numerous situations in which the individual has symptoms or exhibits behaviors that do not cause any subjective sense of distress, but nonetheless would be judged "clinically significant" and warrant a diagnosis of a mental disorder if they come to the attention of a psychiatrist. In such situations, this judgment is based on whether the presentation causes significant impairment in one or more areas of functioning, including social, relational, occupational and academic functioning. For example, it is well recognized that many individuals who are experiencing serious problems related to substance abuse (e.g., violent behavior, poor work or poor school performance due to alcohol or other drug use) deny that their substance abuse is causing them any distress. Such individuals would be given a diagnosis of substance dependence or substance abuse, in spite of their denial, if the psychiatrist determines that these substance-induced problems are causing significant impairment. Similarly, many individuals who act on their pedophiliac urges claim that their behavior is nonproblematic and may even claim it is "beneficial" to the child. Nonetheless, the DSM-IV would consider such individuals to have pedophilia because, by definition, acting on pedophiliac urges is considered to be an impairment in functioning. The person is at least age 16 years and at least five years older than the child or children in Criterion A. Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13- year-old. Is the person at least 16 years old and at least five years older than the child who is the object of his fantasies or activities? Psychiatrists must use judgment when evaluating a person in late adolescence who is engaged in a single ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old. Although such a person might not be considered as having pedophilia, such relationships often lead to other psychological, medical (e.g., sexually transmitted disease, pregnancy), social and family problems and should be strongly discouraged. © Copyright 1997 American Psychiatric Association

This is the psychiatric diagnostic manual definition of pedophilia complete with the age reference that the Kapitan pretends he does not understand or can not find. Pedophilia Category -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paraphilias and Sexual Disorders Etiology -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A large percentage of individuals with this disorder were sexually abused as children, although the vast majority of adults who were abused do not develop pedophilia or pedophilic behaviors. There is also those who argue pedophilia results from feelings of inadequacy with same age peers, and therefore a transfer of sexual urges to children. Symptoms -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This disorder is characterized by either intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child (typically age 13 or younger). To be considered for this diagnosis, the individual must be at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child. Treatment -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Treatment typically involves intensive psychotherapy to work on deep rooted issues concerning sexuality, feelings of self, and often childhood abuse. Medical treatments such as ‘chemical castration’ (which is actually a hormone medication which reduces testosterone and therefore sexual urges) have been investigated with very mixed results. Prognosis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prognosis varies, although it is typically good if the individual has insight into his behaviors and his own childhood issues. Combined with an antisocial personality (which is usually what is seen on the news or in movies), however, treatment prognosis declines, sometimes significantly.

Kapitan I note in your response to me you again stated that when someone has sex with ANYONE of the same sex that makes them a homo-sexual. You once again take the definition of a homo-sexual, someone who has sex with a consenting adult, and the definition of a pedophile, someone who has sex with a child and state they are the same. You then ask me where is the psychiatric diagostic manual and where does it refer to age? Is this what good Christians do Kapitan? Slur homo-sexuals and then feign ignorance as to anything that doesn't suit their preconceived prejudices? Your decision to continue repeating the falesehood that someone who engages in same sex relations with a child is homo-sexual and then feign ignorance as to the definition of pedophile is pathetic and not worthy of any further responses from me. Oh and I bet Jesus loves you, in a non-homo-sexual way of course.

Is there any evidence of this practice? http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=israel...le+Search&meta=" If you are going to jump on the inter-net then research it will you? Are you aware the children were writing in English and not Hebrew? Are you aware there were twelve photographers all "standing around" to take these shots? Are you aware the the comments written in English not Hebrew were in fact NOT addressed to Lebanese children or civilians but in fact Nasrallah, the Lebanese leader of Hezbollah? Are you aware that these children had been in bom shelters for five days straight? How do you think those twelve photographers got there and why do you think the comments were written in English and not Hebew? Are you aware the photographers said to these children "your cousins in America will see you?" to get them to then write on these missiles? How do you think it is these children even got near the shells? Do you see anyone from the IDF around? Think before you jump to conclusions. Think before you demonize these children. They were manipulated by the press. If you were a kid stuck in a bom shelter five days, you would have done the same thing with little prodding. That is the point. Any child placed in a conflict can be exploited. Now tell me, do you equate this photo op with using children as bombs? Does ISrael send children with bombs into Lebanon? Does it use children as terrorist agents? Um uh um. But you have your photo op.

Since Kapitan is concerned about anal sex and anal cancer rates let's clarify how he took it out of context to suggest its only a problem with gay people; He may not know it, but the information he thinks he is repeating comes from two separate studies by researchers at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, are reported in the journal Cancer. The first study, was by Lisa G. Johnson of Fred Hutchinson's Public Health Sciences Division, and found that incidence rates of anal cancer increased significantly in the past 30 years, jumping 160 percent in men and 78 percent in women. The second study, lby epidemiologist Janet Daling of Fred Hutchinson's Public Health Sciences investigated the underlying biological and lifestyle causes behind the rising incidence of anal cancer and tested for the human papillomavirus, or HPV which is a sexually transmitted viral marker of anal cancer. Her studies looked for HPV in both blood and tumor tissue as well as well as surveying the following lifestyle factors;smoking, sexual orientation, number of sexual partners and history of anal intercourse. What the Kapitan forgot to tell you was you should not smoke because smoking appears to play a significant role in anal-cancer development. More than half of the anal-cancer patients studied were current smokers at the time of diagnosis, as compared to a smoking rate of about 23 percent among the controls. Also maybe someone else may want to explain to the Kapitan that gays and bi-sexuals are not the only people who engage in anal sex. I wouldn't know myself Kapitan. I am a virgin.

In regards to the Kapitan's comments; "@Rue:Please be concise!" Hah. Me? Mr. Big Mouth? Hah. Good luck. I will try change my medication. "Please quote these clinical definitions." Go to the psychiatric diagnostic manual please. "You yourself earlier stated that heterosexual relations are also not defined by age. My point is that sexual relations are not defined by age, meaning a man who has sex with a male, regardless of age, is either gay or bisexual. Please quote this "clinical definition" to prove me wrong (with a reliable source please)." That is not what I said. I said the diagnostic manual defines pedophilia clearly with an age reference. Go check it out. What I did state is that a homo-sexual or hetero-sexual is someone who has sex with a consenting adult. " An active homosexual commits a sin, yet that doesn't make him evil." Uh huh. "Again you use "your personal [...] views". I wouldn't state it if I viewed it otherwise! You keep arguing that homosexual/extra-marital relations are not immoral, yet who are you to define morality?" Here's the point Kapitan...the Catholic Church you refer to as the agent to promulgate your definition of sin and morality is nothing but humans. So when you ask me who am I to define morality. I am a human like those humans you follow and I have the same right to define morality. So do gays and lesbians. That is who we are ...humans. "What book do you use to define morality? " Book? Do I need a book. Can I not think and feel without being told how to think and feel? "A quick run-thru on the justification of my belief with regards to this post: 1. There is Absolute Truth. If there were no absolute truth, the abscence of absolute truth would be an absolute truth in itself, meaning there must be absolute truth." The above sounds like someone who has smoked a joint to me. With due respect, to me what you call absolute truth, is what you read in a book written by HUMANS and what you choose to believe as absolute. "2. The Bible Book (Holy Scriptures) is a good authority. " It is a book written by humans and in your subjective personal opinion is "good authority" but too many of us is one of many thousands of books written by humans and it has no more relevance then anything else humans have to say. No more no less. "4. That would make Jesus a liar, a fool or the messiah." No it doesn't make Jesus anything. You are mistaking your personal subjective opinions with who or what Jesus may have stood for. You don't even know. You rely on second, third hand, 8th hand, re-edited, re-constituted passages from people interpreting what they think Jesus said. You have no original transcripts fron Jesus. So don't pretend to speak on behalf of Jesus. You at best have a subjective personal opinion as to what you think he might have said. "5. Jesus had neither the characteristics of a liar nor of a fool, therefore we can conclude that he is the messiah." Conclude what you want but don't be so dilluded as to think your opinions or beliefs are any more signifigant or meaningful then any other human's. "6. The Bible book states that practicing homosexuality is a sin (in several passages including 1 Cor 6:9-10), read more at http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/contempry/hompbia1.htm" Yah the Bible also said to stone and kill gays. Your point? "Do you have any reason for believing that homosexual/extra-marital relations are not a sin?" Yah its called consent. When two or more adults consent to have sex with one another, I have no need to judge it. It is not my concern and I have no reason to call it a sin. My reason? My reason is that I feel no need to define what two consenting adults do. Its of no concern to me and I have no need to moralize or judge it. In my world I often feel I need no reason to define belief with simplistic rigid definitions of right and wrong. You may need to do that, not me. "Other than rape, sexual relations do not tend to have cruel intentions, and sex is not a bad thing, but rather a gift from God." Well gosh you soud ready to visit Hugh Hefner at the Playboy mansion. Careful now. "God gave us rules." Oops there it is. Some of us believe humans like you not God gave us rules. Some of us believe what you refer toas "god" is in fact your personal subjective opinion as to what you think "God" said or thought. The last time I looked you were not God and so excuse me if I prefer to wait to hear it from God directly and not you or other humans. And no sorry, I hear no voices today nor am I having visions. I took my medication so I would not write too much. Remember? "Firstly, it doesn't matter what I claim to be." Of course not, but when you promulgate your religious views and promote them, then your claiming to be justified to do it because its Christian or Catholic, does become an issue. "your clinical definitions don't make sense... please provide a concrete reliable source stating that man-child relations are neither homosexual nor heterosexual)." They are not my definitions. Again go to the psychiatric diagnostic manual and read. If you are still confused, sit down with a doctor and have him explain it to you.

Go on the inter-net and read about this lady; Dr. Lotta Hitschmanova. She is proof you can believe in God and do good things and not impose your beliefs on anyone or be evil because you believe in God. While it does seem easy to find examples of the billions of humans who have used "God" as an excuse to be intolerant, murderous asses, there are those who exist who genuinely used it as their raison d'existence to do good things for others, without imposing their views on those other people or expecting anything back for it. Such people exist. But its harder to find and talk about good people then it is bad ones.

I still chuckle at the West Jet dividends analogy in regards to the Charter.... So you love Figleaf. Well people love Paris Hilton too so I think we should remember that. Here is a quote from one of her fans; "Yes, that's right, I think Paris Hilton is smart. She's gotten herself to a point at which she can do whatever she really wants to do ("act", model, "sing", etc.) and get mad publicity for it. She knows her persona and doesn't try to be anything else. Perhaps politicians could learn a thing or two from her." And here is one of her many fan clubs that thinks he is God; Club: PARIS HILTON FAN CLUB<3 Club Description: For everyone who thinks paris hilton is god Club Rules: if you don't love paris...well don't join but everyone should love her so everyone should join! Total Members: 69 Last Post: 53 days ago Created: 2006-03-23 18:21:44 Founder: alixoxo9 So my point is, I can not believe you choose Figleaf but not Paris Hilton. And yes she writes in. She has a noms de plums on these posts. I can't reveal it. I promised not to.

"When has any Palestinian leader ever had anything to offer to his or her people except struggle? " "The current state of the Palestinians reminds me of a now famous experiment in Psychology where a population of lab rats...."i Numerous times....including peace plans supported by Canada. Actually, when has any Palestinian leader offered "leadership" that would benefit Palestinians? No shortage of opportunities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#...cy_and_treaties The above comment by Higgly are typical of the kind of subjective and selective comments that simply reflect his biases and need to portray the Palestinian-Israel conflict in simplistic terms so that he can feel he understands them and then write in and lecture others on the "truth", i.e., Israel bad bad bad. To make a nonsensical rhetorical comment like "when has any Palestinian leader ever had anything to offer his people except struggle" patronizes and insults numerous Palestinians who have worked hard to offer their people alternatives to violence and political coruption. The deliberate choice of words victimizes all Palestinians and lumps them all as idiots incapable of being able to be rational and lead themselves with anything other then terrorist cells. How idiotic are such comments. Well for starters anyone who has actually worked with Palestinian officials as I have, would know they would tell Higgly to f..ck right off with such patronizing and simplistic comments where he tries to take on their role as all knowing protector and sympathizer. They do not need or want the patronizing arm chair potatoes like Higgly spewing off platitudes from the safety and coziness of their sheltered distance. They want someone to disarm Hamas and Al Fatah and allow them to set up cooperatives and economic relations with Israel and Jordan and let them rebuild the roads to Israel so they can go their to work and sell their produce. They do not want their hospitals, schools, community centres used as terrorist operation sites. They are sick and tired of turning on the t.v. and having to watch Hamas use a cartoon mouse to tell their children they should blow themselves up fighting the infidels next door in Israel. Palestinians are not victimzied morons completely helpless to do nothing but engage in terror despite Higgly's childish black and white depictiions. Of course when Higgly uses the word "struggle" it is a couched or coded word for terror because he does not have the integrity to come out and say-terrorism in his opinion is justifiable because that is the only solution Palestinians have. That is what Higgly's true opinion is but he won't say it, he has to couch it and use inferences and rhetoric portraying Palestinians as simpering fools. Excuse me if I puke. Neither Israelis or Palestinians need arm-chair geniuses like Higgly partonizing what their struggle is. He does not understand it and is hilarious thinking he can speak about it when he has not lived in the Gaza, West Bank or Israel and does not understand what it means to struggle with daily life as they do. How can he? His sanctimonious posterior is soft and sheltered and has no missiles being shot at it. He isn't going to sleep at night wondering whether a terrorist will kill him.

What historical facts? Al l you have done from day one, is to select only certain aspects of what you think happened in the past, take them out of context, misrepresent their true content, and then subjectively without any logical connection assume they match your personal agenda to show the world Israel and Jews bad bad bad Palestinians innocent victims. Your agenda is blatant and its not intellectually credible precisely because it is so transparently one dimensional. You want to pat yourself on the back and play the role now of " I am right and you are wrong..." oh be my guest. You have been playing that tune since you started your diatribes against Israel and selectively revising history and making not so coded slurs against Jews. To now get smug and patronizing with me and suggest you are the only one who understands history and can state it is laughable. I stand by all my comments in response to any you have made. There is not one word in my responses to you that has done anything but challenge you as someone whose biases prohibits him from presenting his arguements in a balanced way. Never at any time have I said to anyone or you I feel victimized by you. You are confusing me with yourself. You are quite the pompous and presumptious one thinking anything you say can get me to doubt myself or the fact that your anti-Israel diatribes barely masks your own subjective agenda not just with Israel but with all Jews. I refer back all your posts. They speak for themselves. So do mine.

Well what would a debate be withoout Higgly and his standard one dimensional its all Israel's fault thesis and revising of history to suit this Israel bad bad bad and caused all the problems thesis Interesting no where in Higgly's thesis does he ever suggest the Arab League, Palestinian leaders, and/or Palestinian people who have chosen violence, coruption and the belief that Jews are evil and Israel must be eradicated, have anything to do with their problems. This depiction of Palestinians as all being innocent victims is as Higgly would say tiresome. So is the double standard that Palestinians must have two nations, and the Muslim world must be allowed to have as many Muslim nations as it wants, but Jews can't have one and anything that has gone wrong in the Middle East is the fault of Jews. Not only tiresome but pointless. Any thesis that deliberately creates victims and chooses only to argue one side of the equation is intellectually defective. Victimization is a process for those who need to turn the world into bad and good guys and scapegoat one group for another's failures. It is one thing to use such constructs to write WWE wrestling scripts, but when discussing political and human conflict, some of us prefer to use more then one dimension when constructing our views as to conflicts.

Well Drea it is impossible for someone in my generation to point the finger at anyone about smoking dope since we all did it. More to the point I certainly am in no position to judge anyone's life style unless like you say they hurt someone else say driving. But what I said to my daughters was - you make choices in life - just make sure you make them not to avoid problems or block them out but to deal with them as honestly and candidly as you can. This coming from someone who reads trash tabloid and watchs WWE wrestling.

Bidet's waste water a valuable resource. So what everyone should do is capture rain water see and put it in a bucket. Then simply stick their butt in the rain bucket then when they are done, take the water outside and use it in the garden see. Oh shut up. Man things are complicated these days. Reminds me of the terrible debate over disposable or non disposable diapers. Personally if I was the big guy who designed humans, I wouldn't have created us to make poo. It makes no sense unless you want to be a politician.

I would caution anyone not to use dope to medicate a physical or psychological problem without going to a doctor first. However what people do with such things is not my business until they commit a crime or hurt others, so I will refrain from further comment. I just don't want anyone hurting themselves with it. That's all.

I strongly support the use of marijhuana as a therapeutic tool for people who have to take chemotherapy. I also strongly support its use for those kinds of brain injury or epilepsy where it can help control seizures. I also strongly support its use for people with chronic pain or terminal illnesses where other medications have not worked. I think it would be foolish to say it doesn't have justifiable medical purposes. In regards to people using it recreationally you can't expect this man at 52 to look anyone in the face and say they shouldn't smoke dope. Me personally I do not smoke dope because I find it makes me completely and absolutely depressed and paranoid. I prefer chocolate, sex, running, and Belgian beer or pretending I am still young and that Paris Hilton or Buffy would date me. As a wee child my drug of preference was mushrooms. Then again I moved on quickly to trash tabloids.

While I completely distance myself and disagree with Higgly's comments on Israel, I do concur that it is a legal fact that certain Palestinians have legal deeds to land. The issue is what signifigance to those deeds have in a court if the land is abandoned. For Palestinians who left the land, the notion they can simply come back to it, is like taking the descendants of the 900,000 Jews thrown out of the Middle East in the early 50's and giving them back all the property they had stolen from them. We also then get into the legal issue that in dhimmitude, Islam did not seperate state from religion and therefore did not allow Jews or Christians to own land but allowed Muslims to own land which would mean the deeds come from a system that illegally discriminated against Jews and Christians and only allowed Muslims to own land. It also gets into the practical impossibility of verifying these deeds since many of them were forgeries or fakes and many were stolen from their rightful owners. The practical reality is this concept that land was stolen and must be given back is quaint and fuels a stereotype that Jews stole land from Muslims, but does not reflect the real legal issues which are-how do we today, find a way to create a solution whereby both Palestinians and Israelis can live side by side without violence. There has to be give and take on both sides. The terrorists on the Palestinian side are of no help. Setting up as was announced today, a 20,000 person Jewish settlement on the East side of Jerusalem is also of no help. What we see are both sides, one using terror the other settlements to try consolidate or grab land rights. Both are problematic and fuel the crisis. In regards to East Jerusalem however, it should be pointed out that traditonally Jews always lived in the East of Jerusalem but had their land stolen by Muslims so its a chiocken and egg arguement again. When Jordan seized East Jerusalem it did it illegally. In fact Jews could have strong arguements to land on the East side but from a practical point of view it may not help matters at all.

Well if you read the posts on whether being gay is an anomoly you would know if he is evil he must be gay. But i am confused. I thought he was married. Anyways I think your trying to turn David Suzuki into a demon is stretching it. The fact that you do not agree with him does not make him evil. Using your subjective name calling we could easily same of you in reverse because you continue to poison the planet and don't give a damn. Why don't we avoid the name calling and stick to the issues and not demonize people. I will say this though, David Suzuki is sort of beginning to look like Colonel Sanders. Some people believe Col. Sanders was Satan.

Kapitan in regards to your continued exercise of trying to take statistics to suggest gays are pedophgiles you have again completely missed the point and continue to use the statistics incorrectly. Nowhere in the stats I reported to you, nor in anything I said or reported to you, did it ever state that being a pedophile and being a homo-sexual is one and the same and so the statistics should be used interchangeably to suggest this. You are using the statistics to call pedophiles who also engage in homo-sex with adults, homo-sexuals. A person who engages in sex with an adult and a child, a pedophile not a hetero-sexual or a homo-sexual-something you keep deliberately misrepresenting to further your agenda that being a homo-sexual and a pedophile are the same thing. They are not. They are two distinct categories of sexual behaviour. A person who has sex with a child of ANY sex is not a homo-sexual or a hetero-sxual they are a pedophile. A homo-sexual only engages in sex with a consenting adult something you refuse to accept because of your religious and personal views that you continue to repeat in your responses. Now you stated; "Please don't use the typical liberal response of "that's your opinion". I've heard it only too often and it doesn't mean anything because I clearly wouldn't make a statement I believed were false." Well Sir the point is every time you repeat the myth that a person who engages in same sex wth an adult and who also engages in same sex with a child is a homo-sexual when in fact they are a pedophile, is in fact a personal opinion NOT a clinical one. You have chosen to ignore clinical psychiatry and psychology and create your own definition based precisely on your personal belief that if you have sex with anyone of the same sex regardless of age, it makes you gay. That Sir is a personal opinion. It has no scientific merit. It is a subjective value you impose. Now then, you may believe you don't make false statements but that is precisely the point...this is not about what YOU believe-its about how clinical psychiatry and psychology and forensic psychiatry classify pedophilia as. Your statements as to what you believe are just that-personal opinions and that is precisely why I stated they were. Your comments about "typical liberal response" is about as meaningful as me calling your responses typical Christian homophobe responses. Now you also stated; "I've never heard of this stereotype (gays are pedophiles) before you mentioned it on this post, all I knew was to prove that there is a higher proportion of those involved in male-male relations (of any age) who are pedophiles than those involved in male-female relations (of any age). Even your numbers prove this." As I stated so many times, my statistics never suggestedor proved gays were pedophiles. They did the exact opposite. Not only that I went out of my way to explain a person who engages in sex with a child, even if he engages in sex with an adult is still a pedophile and to say he is gay deliberately misrepresents the fact that he is a pedophile. Your Sir not I, then chose to misrepresent the definition of what a homo-sexual so you could then take statistics and misrepresent them. The statistics never said pedophiles are gay people. They said people who CLAIM to engage in same sex with adults also engage in same sex with children. It did not refer to their pedophilia as being homo-sexual. Only you did. You also stated; "Please quote where I litteraly state that gays are pedophiles." Well I did. You stated and I quote; "I never said that gays are pedophiles.... A pedophile may prefer those of the opposite sex, but if they have same-sex relations, they have had homosexual relations and are therefore a homoseuxal". You also stated in your last response and I quote; "No age for hetero- nor bi-sexual relations? Red herring. I'm aware of this, it doesn't change anything. If a man has sex with a girl, he's sexually active. If that man has sex with a boy, he's homosexual or bisexual." You deliberately ignore the proper clinical definition of pedophilia which has everything to do with age and again make the slur that if a man engages in sex with a child of the same sex he is a homo-sexual. You also show vividly that you do not use the same misrepresentation with straights. I will say it again. You are wrong. You are stating your own personal opinions. An adult who engages in a sex with a child is a pedophile and the fact that they may have sex with an adult does not mean their pedophilia can be called hetero-sexual or homo-sexual to describe the sex chosen to molest. You are deliberately using the clinical definitions incorrectly to advocate your personal agenda which is being gay is a sin and being gay and being a pedophile are the same. You stated; "I do not preach that gays are evil." Then in the very next sentence you stated, " Gays are sinners and so am I. " Sorry where I come from when we call someone sinful we are saying they are evil. If you want to try play semantics and suggest telling someone their being gay is a sin but you didn't say it was evil, play away. For those of us used to Christians, we know there is a habit of using the words "sin" and "evil" interchangeably and one as a softened or code word for the other. The moment you label being gay as a sin Sir, you judged, and you may as well have used the word evil, what is the difference? How is a sin not evil? Now you want to talk about trying to dance your way out of what you said, let me quote you; "I do not define gays as sinful. I define the practice of homosexuality a sin," Your game is ludicrous. What you have stated is if a gay person obstains from having same sex then and only then they are not sinful. Don't play games. Your words are blatant-you are making it clear that you believe same sex practice is a sin. Stop with the games and have the courage to admit what you are saying. No you can't couch it. You are being called on it. You then made yet another personal statement or opinion as to your views as to sexual relations when you stated; "Face it, humans were created in a certain way. People go through puberty, opening their eyes to the possibility of having a relationship open to fertility. Any distortion in this process is abnormal." With due respect Sir, no doctor, no psychologist, no one with modern education and training would say to an adult, you should only have sex to reproduce. That Sir, reflects your religious views which shape how you believe all humans should behave sexually and what you want imposed on others and what drives you to refer to gays as pedophiles. May I strongly suggest to you, that having sex simply to enjoy having sex, is not evil or a sin. Nor is it evil or a sin to engage in sex with someone of the same sex. The only time Sir, any of us should give a damn who has sex and with who, is when it is not between consenting adults, or is with a child or could spread disease. Other then that, your personal religious views are just that. No healthy human being represses their sexual desire and hates themself for having one and no Sir not all of us f..ck to reproduce. An orgasm Sir, is a phenomena many humans like to have. It doesn't make them sinful or unGodly. Again I conclude by stating this - if your religion and moral values teach you to judge others as sinful and to slur people who do not engage in pedophilia with such practices, well then all I can say is in my personal opinion you are doing yourself and others an injustice. I hope people reading these posts have seen how someone like you will take their religious views to ignore modern behavioural science and justify judging others in a negative manner and in a manner which suggests they are engaging in criminal behaviour when they are not. Pedophilia Sir is a crime. Being a healthy homo-sexual who has sex with a consenting adult is not. To suggest the two are the same criminalizes homo-sexuality and you know what-enough with your prejudices and slurs. Its precisely this mentality that led to the burning of witches, the genocide of aboriginals and Jews and this practice of forefully imposing your religion on others in the name of "saving them". Enough. Hasn't this caused enough hatred? Do we need yet another person claiming to be Christian promulgating moral judgements on a group of people? More to the point Sir, do you think you can couch yourself as being tolerant while at the same time calling the people you claim you do not hate sinful and pedophiles? Excuse me if I choke on your sanctimony. Its hard to swallow. (I apologize for those of you that think I am encouraging a gay sexual practice by my last comment)

"What's this, tell me why you have pull with KD and Ellen. On second thought, maybe that would be too much info!" Er I am not sure if the word "pull" is appropriate. You might get reported. I actually met KD once. She had like 20 women fighting to be with her. I don't get it. This was awhile back. She was thinner then but mind you still looked like Elvis Presley without the sideburns. I said to her "man you vegetarians are popular" and she said " yep you gotta know what to eat ". Let's just leave it at that cuz I don't want to be reported but its a true story.

"The reason I'm curious is I'd like to see if cultures who accepted gay practice as normal thrived or not. Because it's a litmus test of sorts on a moral level. Among religions, it's a symptom of absolute moral decline, and I was curious to see what history showed." Well Sharky go knock yourself out. You can enroll at York University in Feminist Studies. There are also sexologists and anthropologists who study how different cultures handled homo-sexuality. I am suprised you had no clue Socrates was a pederast and its because of his preference for young boys we get this confusion that when a man wants to have sex with a boy he's gay. Gymnos the word for gymnasium I believe means same sex. Surely you must have known in ancient Greece homo-sexuality and pedophilia were openly advocated? Surely you heard that in aboriginal cultures gays were simply referred to as two-spirited people and left alone? What we do know is every culture, every society has had gays and how societities have treated gays depends on the prevalent cultural values. We know in the Western Judeao-Christian and Muslim world, homo-sexuality was considered evil and a sin. Leviticus talks of stoning gays. Then again I never did understand what Christians meant by turning the other cheek. In Japan and Bhuddist culture there was tolerance of it. In many Pacific Island countries it was tolerated -then again in many of those same cultures so was incest and that's why Christian missionaries felt it their mission to save them. If you are worried that by tolerating gays we will destroy society well all would say back is do you really think calling gays sinful and sick and criminalizing them or depicting them as evil will make your society stronger and better? Do you really think a world without Elton John would be a better place? Excuse me but this kind of consideration quickly becomes absurd. All I would say is a world without gays would mean if nothing else, horrible fashion and a huge talent drain in Hollywood. (sorry we need humour if this is where we are headed) I mean imagine a world with no Broadway plays or people who know how to design their homes and match colours. O.k. I will stop. I am trying to be tongue in cheek again. I wouldn't worry about Canada crumbling because a small percentage of its population like screwing the same sex. If you really are worried about lesbians taking all the women away and you'll have no one to screw, don't worry-I will call KD Lang and tell her to cool it but from what I hear Angelina Jolie still prefers women so don't get fooled by her faking it with you if and when that happens. Besides Paris Hilton is always available to any man.

.."roughly a quarter of pedophiles are gay," I again repeat there are absolutely no statistics that have stated the above. This is a complete fabrication by yourself. "I never said that gays are pedophiles.... A pedophile may prefer those of the opposite sex, but if they have same-sex relations, they have had homosexual relations and are therefore a homoseuxal" Read the above that is exactly what you continue to state. "Someone is guilty of their acts until forgiven. It only takes once... if one commits theft once, they are a thief. If one participates in homosexual relations once, they are homosexual (or bi-sexual)." The above represents your personal religious views which you are imposing non gay people and establishes clearly you are morally judging them and discriminating against them and use your religious views as the pretext for such behaviour. " A homosexual is someone who has sexual relations with someone of the same sex. The definition I have from WordWeb is "Someone who practices homosexuality; having a sexual attraction to persons of the same sex". No mention of age in that definition" The above is typical of what you have done in this debate. Simply look for what you want to see. Now you called me absurd, who is being absurd? Of course the definition for homo-sexual does not comment on age. Go read the definitions for hetero-sexual or bi-sexual and show me where it says age eiher! What I specifically advised you and you have deliberately ignored and continue to refuse to acknowledge is that having sex with someone of the same gender who is a child is NOT homo-sexual behaviour. You think it is because in your definition if the sex of the child is the same the pedophile becomes a homo-sexual. You are wrong. You have been explained why the medical community does not define homo-sexuality as having sex with children but you persist in using this prejudice and incorrect slur against gays. I repeat again, a man who has sex with a girl or a man who has sex with a boy is NEITHER straight or gay and you are using the terms incorrectly precisely because you feel being gay is evil and is the same as peophilia otherwise you wouldn't keep using the terms interchangeably. For those of us who do not engage in Christianity to preach about gays being evil, we use the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, edition IV. Under this diagnostic manual it is pedophilia is clearly defined and it makes clear that engaging in sex with children is pedophilia it does NOT refer to it as homo-sexuality nor does anyone who does not have your prejudice use the term homo-sexual or hetero-sexual to define the sexual activity of pedophiles. "These Christian groups are giving an objective look at some data. There was no "hate" (to my knowledge) in the source I quoted. Quoting numbers presented by a certain group in itself is not un-"Christian like"." The hate is blatant and no different then yours. Don't come on this forum and tell me you are a Christian and then in the same breath define gays as sinful and not expect me to say anything. You are using your interpretation of Christianity to define gays as sinful and that is hateful. "I'll admit that I am Christian, but you are using a personal attack (refering to religion) by your nonsensical comment. " I never attacked you personally but I sure as hell atack you when you use Christianity to define gays as sinful or when you make such idiotic comments that if someone engages in one same sex act they are sinful and a homo-sexual. "I pray for whoever I please, and if I pray for a homosexual, I make the same prayer I make for straight people; that God's will be done." Oh isn't that Christian of you! You pray to God that the sinful gays will be saved! Talk about someone who hides behind their religion to couch their hatred!!!!!You think because you pray to God that makes you unhateful? The fact that you believe it is your right to morally judge people as sinful and classiy them as such make syou hateful only you think because you call yourself Catholic, its o.k. " I just said that there is an existing correlation (as weak as it may be, gays are still more likely to be pedophiles than straights)." You din't just say. You continue to repeat pedophiles are gays after being shown the statistics, and given reference to the studies and after being told to go to the psychiatic manual classification and get the terms straight. (excuse the pun) "My point for this thread is that homosexuality is not normal" And my point is who do you think you are defining what is or is not normal? That is your personal opinion only. How would you like it if I stated Catholics are abnormal and I pray every night that all of you are saved and forgiven for your sins? Get real. I think what has happened is this debate has evolved to another level and one where you are simply stating personal, subjective, remarks that have nothing to do with pedophiles and gays and everything to do with your need to refer to homo-sexual behaviour and pedophile behaviour as being the same. I will say it one last time. A man who has sex with a child of the same sex is NOT a homo-sexual and your use of the word homo-sexual is ignorant. The fact that his victim of the same sex doesn't make it homo-sexual it makes it same sex. If you want to blur the definition to suit your prejudice then that is absolutely no different then me saying all Catholics are evil and engage in hatred against gays because you do. If you feel I am personally attacking you think again. I could care less who you are, what you think and who and what you pray to and for. However I most certainly challenge anyone coming on these posts engaing in the gays are pedophiles stereotype, denying he said it, saying it again, then hiding behind his religion to make it sound all nice and brotherly. Its no wonder the Catholic Church can't deal with its homo-sexual priests and then its pedophile priests if you are any indication of the confusion its followers are under.

Now let’s deal with this bullshit myth the Kapitan and some others keep repeating that pedophiles are gay. Their bias is reinforced by Christian groups that deliberately distort a report by A. Nicholas Groth an expert in the study of sexual offenders against women and children. He is estimated to have treated over 3000 child molesters over the course of two decades. And is the former director of the Sex Offender Program at the Connecticut Department of Corrections and wrote the book Men Who Rape: Psychology of the Offender. I qoted his studies in an ealier post that Kapitan chose to skip over and ignore and counter with his alleged statistics. Groth has found that one third of all cases of child molestation involve an underage boy and an adult male. It is this factopr that is appropriated by these Christian groups who then try argue homosexuals are disproportionately engaged in molesting children. What these groups ignore of course is that Groth went on to explicitly states that it is a myth that men who molest boys are homosexual. His studies define child molesters within two types: "fixated" and "regressed." The fixated offender is attracted primarily to children and has little or no interest in adult relationships and its these people we really mean when we say "pedophile." On the other hand the regressed offender is interested in and capable of adult sexual relationships and then may on occasion regress to sexual encounters with children, usually when unable to find an adult relationship. According to Groth, the fixated offender, or pedophile, tends to select boys more often than girls, but this tendency HAS NOTHING to do with homosexuality. The Christian groups like the one Kapitan quote, skip over this next part. They simply jump on the fact that pedophiles tend to select boys more then girls. They then do what the Kapitan does which is absolutely incorrect and that is to say if you have sex with a child of the same sex, its homo-sexual, and it its with a child of the same sex, its hetero-sexual. That is absolutely wrong. Sex with a child is neither homo-sexual or hetero-sexual. Homo-sexual and hetero-sexual relationships are between consenting adults. Same sex with a child is not with an adult. Now let’s deal with this odious bull shit stereotype that incorrectly uses the terms for adult consensual sex (hetero-sex, homo-sex) head on once and for all. Fixated child molesters are drawn to children sexually because they identify with the child and part of them wants to remain a child. It is for this reason that the trend for fixated offenders is to target boys as victims. They aren’t attracted to their gender, but they see the boy as a projected representation of themselves. Since the vast majority of sexual pedophiles are men, this then occurs. However if you do not take the time to break-down and properly decipher and analyze what actually goes on in the mind of a pedophile you will do what these Christian groups and the Kapitan does, simply impose your preconceived bias based on your religious concepts and not research further and selectively skip the most important features of pedophilia. It is precisely because pedophiles feel themselves to be more child than adult – more boys than men – they want to remain in the company of children. Groth’s studies which the Christian groups skip over, found that in fact pedophiles are uninterested in adult homosexual relationships. In fact, they frequently express a strong sexual aversion to adult males, reporting that what they find attractive about the immature boy are his feminine features and the absence of secondary sexual characteristics such as body hair and muscles." This is precisely what I repeated in my earlier posts. Kapitan and others simply ignore this because it doesn’t fit with their stereotype of pedophiles and gays being the same. Furthermore with the second type of offender, the regressed offender, Groth showed them to be predominantly heterosexual AND NOT HOMO-SEXUAL. With this second type they temporarily turn to chidlren. Groth’s studies showed regressed offenders were more likely to choose girls than boys as victims. Let’s get it clear as can be. Even when pedophiles are attracted to boys, they are attracted to them precisely because they do not have masculine characteristics and are feminine looking including having slight builds and lack of hair. A homo-sexual is attracted to developed men. Even if you wish to stereotype certain gay men as feminine, they still have fully grown genitilia, body hair, and their bodies have matured. The stereotype flows from thinking that since some gay men appear feminine or like to look like young boys this means gays are pedophiles. This stereotype is no different then saying hetero-sexuals are all child molesters because a portion of straight men have lolita syndrome, i.e., they like their sex with young looking women. In fact Groth found no cases of boy molestation in which the offender had an adult homosexual orientation. So Groth who the Kapitan repeats and distorts because I am sure he is not aware that the Christian group he quotes stole its studies from Groth and then selectively skipped over the parts they did not like, concluded homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia are not synonymous but in fact are mutually exclusive precisely because the homosexual male is sexually attracted to masculine qualities whereas the heterosexual male is sexually attracted to feminine characteristics, and the sexually immature child’s qualities are more feminine than masculine. Groth’s studies which have time and time again been backed up by other studieshave shown the child offender who is attracted to and engaged in adult sexual relationships is most often heterosexual. Now Kapitan you want to go cure a gay person by having them pray to Jesus for their 'sins" be my guest but don't take studies that have been misappropriated by these Christian groups out of context. It aint Christian like.

The myth that the Kapitan again repeats about gays being pedophiles will not go away but it needs to be exposed head on. So here we go again. The web site the Kapitan quotes is one of a series of Christian web-sites with an express agenda to portray homo-sexuality and pedophilia as being one and the same and evil. The web-site Kapitan quotes is from a Christian organization that believes homo-sexuals are sick and can be cured if they become Christian and commit to Jesus. Let’s get these groups at in the open and in addition to the one the Kapitan quotes as if it’s a credible psychological or psychiatric source as opposed to aright wing Christian anti-gay political organization are; Family Research Institute, Focus On the Family, Liberty Counsel, National Association For Research Theraopy, Parents and Friends of ex Gays and Gays, Positive Alternatives For Homosexuals, and the Traditional Value and Coalition of course and the National Policy Institute. I will say this to the Kapitan, I am going to send another post taking the time to once and for all detail where your stereotype and misquoted statistics have been taken from by these Christian groups. For now I will state this-go to www.unh.edu/ccrc/factsheets/pdf/CFSA-F520.pdf, p 5, fact sheets which repeats that all reliable statistics kept on pedophilia shows that 78-89% of child sex victims are girls. You want stats Kapitan to show what you are quoting is bull-shit. I will be pleased. I presented them already in my other posts which you choose to ignore but hey I always have more; 1.Source: US Dept of Health and Human Services,Administration for Children & Families, Child Welfare Information Gateway (formerly Nat'l Clearinghouse on Child Abuse & Neglect), 2000. Composition of substantiated child abuse in 2000: 879,000 children were victims of child maltreatment. Neglect ~ 63% Physical ~ 19% Sexual ~ 10% Psychological ~ 8% Except for victims of sexual abuse, rates were similar for male and female victimization: 11.2 and 12.8 per 1,000 children respectively. Rate of sexual abuse by gender: 1.7 victims per 1,000 female children 0.4 victims per 1,000 male children. 2. Source: HHS National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect and mandated by Congress survey for period of 1986- 1993 concluded that girls are sexually abused three times more often than boys; 3. Source: Statistics summarized from theU.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics Inmate interviews in 277 prisons in 45 states, conducted during 1991, revealed: three out of four child victims were female 4. Source: National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System, U.S. federal Department of Health and Human Services- nearly 90,000 children are sexually abused every year- approximately 80 percent of these sexually molested children are girls