Rue

Imagine false evidence or information stored on an app then used to convict someone. No wait..not in your selective world where truth is established by an app telling you how to think.

Yes you make assumptions. I do not assume. I repudiatdcassumptions being only of one possibility. I do not assume yourcassumptiinx, you do. I merely point out simply making one assumption is defective. Whether a power is abused or not depends on actual fact. I never contended otherwise. Further, knowing why Canadian soldiers served and died in World War one, Two, Korea, Afghanistan is not an assumption- it is based on assim8lating knowledge based on cherished and learned lessons in the public domain...its obtained from the testimony and legacy of the soldiers who survived and died and the stories they left behind for us. It comes from the tetimony of survivors and eye witnesses of political persecution and war correspondents and case law.

The fact we are tracked does not make the tracking acceptable, legal or without potential abuse. No one denies tracking. The issue is, what do we do to assure the tracking is done with our informed consent and used only for the limited purpose we consented to.

You clearly do not as evidenced by the above utterly ignorant statement above. In fact the surveillance of Jews and Romax or other visible minorities as history shows started based on people making subjective accusations to their police about minorities often fueled by other government organizations or religious institutions. Citizens vigilante groups and often children were used to surveille targeted citizens obtaining evidence no differently then an app does today, by gaining unknown access to the movement and day to day routines of the people surveilled. I can not possibly believe you are oblivious to such fact.

You would also never have in the US people arguing state control over individual rights as you now read on this board. Therein is a difference between Canadians and Americans..we trust statd control, you Americznx distrust it...and on that note.. I take the American activist civil libertarian approach to state surveillance. I can tell you the average Canadian likes state control and regulation. We want to be told stay at home. We want the government to tell us what go do. Our leader asks for more power while Trump says relax, stop asking me to tell you what to do. Trump's laissez faire approach to imposing state power is seen by Canadians as him not caring. I actually am amazed how he has publically refused go cater to fear mongers and impose a police state.

Imagine you not understanding that precisely because my relatives lived in terror and were surveilled and were, controlled, tattooed and systematically exterminated using the same principles you now argue, you can not understand it but choose to ridicule it. Jews were defined as a disease. We were surveilled, tracked and disposed of as a virus. What do you not get Argus? Because you have never been the subject of state abuse you dismiss it happening to others? Do you not know one person who came to Canada from totalitarian states seeking basic freedoms you now smugly dismiss? You choose to ridicule the possibility that what you so smuggly ask for has no potential to be used in any way other than what you find acceptable ? Then you argue since people are having their privacy illegally abused to manipulate what products they buy it's ok? So if someone rapes me and can get away with it its ok if its widespread behaviour? Because domestic violence is so widespread it's ok? If I get arrested and abused by the police it's ok? If someone obtains evidence illegally it's ok..because such things happen? In your world as long as something abusive happens and t is widespread it becomes ok? You speak from a bubble of subjective elitist assumption. You take for granted the freedoms you want curtailed because you never lived in a communist state, a fascist state, a military dictatorship, a religious theocracy. You have never been the subject of state persecution and so dismiss it as a possibility and experience others have lived through. You choose to be smug and reject any possibility other than the one you preordain. What you do not know thd number of mentally ill or physically disabled Hitlef disposed of and what he did to track their illnesses down? Your brain can not see any warning from that abuse in the name of protecting society? In my world governments can and have abused their powers over individuals and must be held openly checked and balanced. In my world where I had state power to surveille, search andl cease, detain and convict people I witnessed first hand how the state can abuse such powers and in fact in most cases rationalize that abuse of powerdone with the intent to protect the public not abuse them. In my world anyone with too much power over others has at least equal if not more potential to do harm not good.in my world at the ed both and substance of a relationship between doctor and patient must be confidence that even the state must not violate otherwise patients fearing persecution will not report and treat causing far more harm than the state claiming to protect violating that confidence. You have given zero thought to the topic. If we track disease what you fail to understand is people will not cooperate if they fear bring abused and the vast majority of doctors do not approve of forcing themselves on anyone without informed consent of the patient. No you can not force people go have a vaccine...its impractical. You need to convince them without fear. You use the word mandatory like a racist Jack hammer. Doctors prefer the concept informed consent. Soth Korea's system is not forced on people. They choose to vote.untatily get checked. Their concept of early testing is based on a different concept of collective identity than ours because of a much larger population and different political history but South Korea is not North Korea. It doesn't force its people to get tested. In Canada the vast majority of us will voluntarily get tested but it must be done with protections in place to protect doctor patient confidentiality and anonymity. We already a working model with aids, sexually transmitted diseases and colon cancer. How about you go look at what was done before you make sweeping statements about mandatory testing. Yah maybe someone does need to burn a tattoo on you to get you to stop and think.

I have argued it can be used for as much evil as it can good and so we must not assume it will only be used for good. You answer with a yah..it can be be used to combat evil missing the point that the very reason if can be used to combat evil will also enable it to combat good. Its easy to welcome power over you...but once it's there and used for another reason you do not like what makes you think you can remove it as easily? You assume the positive will outweigh the good and its defeatist to think otherwise. I have argued your assumption evil is always defeated is illogical and based on a subjective assumption . I argue history has shown us as well ad objective methodology that and in our reality, is that for every action is a counter-action . This is why I would argue for the smecreadon, the assumption artificial intelligence will only be used for good is illogical not to mention naive. What you argue is me being defeatist is me arguing that you are not being realistic or logical and choose only to see what you want to see, not what may end up being.

Canada's government has a history of having abused its citizens. You choose not to see what we evolved past. You choose to ignore our history. You just assume Canada is the bubble of your reality and always has been. You speak this way because you were never put on a reservation, placed in a camp during Ww2, have been wrongfully arrested because of your skin color, on and on. I am the first to argue Canada today is a great country with freedoms. I am also the first to argue it wasn't always and to evolve as it is required we learn about the mistakes of too much government power both in our country and other countries that our soldiers had to go fight against to stop their abuse of power.

Morecsmug bullshit assuming surveillance and tagging by the state is only going to be used in the way you assumevit will be used. Of course anything that does not fit in your prescribed bubble of reality is insane to you. You never had a tattoo burned into you. You are born in a reality you give no consideration to..you just assume it..you have no clue who died so you can now welcome undoing what they fought so hard to get you.

It could also make stalking you by some sob easier to and therein lies the point. This assumption technology will be only used positively is the issue. I spent years trying to track and imprison sex criminals. Many argued we had the technology to place implants in pedophiles. There I'd also technology to implant in pedophiles a chip in their brain to zap them with a painful electric charge everytime they had a sex urge. Of course most people would want that done to pedophiles. Now tell me once used on them do you really think it would stop and only be used on them? Given your knowledge of history and the violation of human rights across the world you really think such technology would not expand in use? Can you tell me know who has access to your personal info and why? I doubt it and I am sure if you knew you would be quite concerned with just who is accumulating and why. My question is, do you want anyone having power over you that takes away your right of free choice and if so under what circumstances...from what I have read from you..you would want to know...

I know exactly what a contact tracing application can do. You choose to be smug and trite and assume it will be limited to what you think it will be used for based on what you are told by the internet articles you read. Yoh suspend as my critical thought process and parrot b as co assumptions of how you think technology will be used.

No it does not mean wecard ok with it. You do not know that. Some people are, some are not. You assume everyone who gives up their priivacy knows they have let alone is not concerned about it. Using your reasoning anyone who drives a car can be assumed not to care about the air pollution it causes. That is being trite and smug. You just keep throwing put subjective assumptions without pausing to see any possible issue or consequence or for that matter opinion if it isn't assumed by you.

Again smug bullshit pretending you do not have a clue what history has taught us about totalitarianism.

Bullshit. The nano chip in the vaccine is yet another false rumour placed on the internet that you swallow whole without taking the time to research. Go on lecture me now on how Covid 19 is fake or vaccines cause autism. Left, right, you end up with your head stuck up your ass the same way when your fears cause you to demand state control.

Another trite comment. There are indeed government agencies that monitor civilians. There are indeed major businesses that monitor your behaviour. The reasons as to who gets monitored and why are not always known to you if ever. Your ignorance as to who surveilled you is your choice. You choose not to see and be smug about it. You welcome state control over us all because you choose to not see the history of the world that shows what happens when people take their freedom for granted and are willing to give it up based on a fear they have been fed.

Once again the only Yank on gh That is not a case. It's an assumption. Prove therexare no other equally as effective measures. Yoh have not proven anything.

What does that mean...people who do not want to give the state the right to surveille them are defeatist?

You are another smug bastard. Its easy to come on a forum and call for state surveillance..you never lived in a totalitarian state and you take the freedom you want to give up for granted. The sad thing is you have no clue just how smug you and Argus and those calling for state surveillance sound. Go on line up and get tagged. Get a number tattooed into your arm. Go on lecture me how a permanent tattoo on your arm is a great thing. Please continue to tell me. How about in public we also require people you find undesireable wear red arm bands. Go on continue.

Excuse me you started a thread claiming you are going to make a case for state surveillance of everyone then never did. Now you ask me to explain to you why there is no concern about the state having total authority over me? Lol. Argus you come on the board, make a sweeping statement asking for a totalitarian state control over people and you now ask me to spell out what the problem is? Yoh can not justify what you started..now you want me to explain how state control can be abusive? No. It ends hear. I do not nor should anyone else have to explain to anyone the dangers of state control. What I would love to do at this point is stick a loaded weapon in your face and ask you to explain to me why that is a dangerous thing to do. I can't. So I will walk away. You can be a smug bastard Argus. Good people died to prevent what you ask for.

Without a doubt the most moronic thread on the board in a while. Please continue. Not one of you state totalitarians have provided anything but your subjective desire to control all of us because you believe a virus justifies it. You show a complete ignorance of history and how easy it us for some of you to turn into dickhead fascists without a damn thought given to the implications of your trite comments.

Oh well then.

It won't be permanent. Oh well then. If you say so.

Is that supposed to be an answer ?

..and you see no legal, privacy, civil liberties, freedom issues with your suggestion?

I swear some days I feel like some people on this board are recycled Pravda journalists .. Covid 19 is just another capitalist created disease. You do realize no Russian or Chinese ever gets syphilis unless it came from the West. Ah the good old days, Pravda, Sputnik news, when men were men and the KGB could be smelled miles away with those stinky cigarettes. Ah the good old days of pale skinned vodka smelling trench coated men that looked like little toads, coming late at night in Moskvitch cars. What would the world have been without the Stasi, AVH, STB, UB, Securitate, SANS/Service 7, and Cheka-KGB. I mean come on that's the beauty of communism. All those initials. You ask me Covid 19 sounds like the name of a secret state security agency.