Rue

I get you really I do..I am the extremist on this one..I admit the logical answer is business with safeguards built in..but I am in an extremist mood over China's government. Their handling and cover up of the virus and treatment of Hong Kong and behaviour in the South China sea, their refusal to apologize and acknowledge the lack of chygiene controls in their wet markets, their illegal invasion of Tibet, Vietnam, it all to me justifies isolation until they make serious reforms. I will not hold my breath and acknowledge my position is extreme and yours is more rational. Hey you hate Rex Murphy I hate China's current government.

Peekaboo its Godzilla forgetting he's Tdot. Lol. Get em Hudson. I still remember that Zionism is cancer routine. Yah the app is a Zionist conspiracy...Argus is Zionist illuminati. Get him. Lol. Hudson..Godz...T(dil) dot..whatever... the technology Israel is working on is beyond your scope of expertise. Stick to trying to figure out how to develop a dildot. It's just like a katushka rocket but smaller. Oy. Send a new troll. This one is spent....and come up wth a better name...try something subtle like Joe Stallion or Kay Jeebee.

Lol now you post with nothing to say. Good for you.

No the "they" in the above context is another one of your projections on others as to what they refer to based on your stereotypes. You continue to assume you know what others refer to without asking them. By the way I could explain about the eggs but from the sounds of it you would get confused about the cock Iand laying process I would be referring to... I do not want to confuse you further.

"They" is called the environment you live in. It issfull of stimuli and conditions that can coerce, force, pressure, influence the decisions you make. The fact you have to ask for examples of it attests to your not being able to conceive that your environment can and does condition your behavior and that "they" is in fact an infinite list of social conditions generated by "they" who are humans with names. Those humans could be working for or be your: government, employer, businesses selling you anything, charities and fundraisers, news and social media,interest groups, neighbours, family, friends, perceived competitors, people in cars driving on the same road as you, physicians and other professionals who give you advice. You want examples BC? How about you start with yourself and why and how your own choices came about? Come on you think they simply arose spontaneously?

I think even if it was not originally intended to have been a social experiment, it is now and as history has shown us, governments do NOT give back what they take when it comes to freedoms so I must sadly agree.

You have never lived in a police state, been falsely arrested and detained, witnessed how governments have misused their powers on individuals so of course you make such smug comments. You take your bubble of reality as universal to all and as a given. The fact you close your mind to the possibility that abuse of power by governments has always existed and does not exist, does not make those of us aware of that possibility paranoid..it could however evidence you call people paranoid because they don't share your limited sense of possibility. You think having a loaded gun pointed at your head is safe as long as the person holding the gun is a government agent. Some of us believe the pointing of the gun at a someone's head is also dangerous even if its held b a government agent because the gun is loaded. You need to ride the bus with the masses just once BC. Get our perspective on life. You see, if a big fat man works for the government, doesn't mean if he trips and falls on top of you with a sudden stop he is less dangerous. His large girth is the issue. That is why they say it aint over until the fat lady gets up and off of you. Regards Jesse Ventura

"Companies" are simply units of the Chinese government. "People" in China do not invest overseas. They are not allowed. Any investment is controlled by, owned by and directed by its government. The "wealth" you talk of in individual hands in China only exists if the government allows it and even then its limited to within China as to lifestyle compared to other Chinese. The only wealthy people in China are those in the elite upper echelon of its Communist Party who can get the money out into illegal offshore accounts and from what I gather that is impossible and those getting the money out do so because they have enough clout upstairs to be able to get away with it not because its an ordinary course of affairs. The one exception to what you say is Hong Kong investors given some leeway. China's idea of investment is not to work with but buy out. True investors share profit. The Chinese model of investment does not share profit, it buys out something to create a monopoly on the production of the product to prevent free competition. The Chinese model of "investment" is cancerous and parasitical. It was best typified in Star Trek as the Borg. Chinese investment does not help build a country. Look at Angola Sudan, Mozambique, Iran...all giving 95% of their oil to China. What do those countries have to show for it? As I said Tdot you have exposed yourself and what you reveal speaks for itself. I notice Godzilla suddenly vanished. Hudson, Boris, whatever.

I am the first to blast ProudConservative and I will therefore defend him for the same reasons. He is unlike you not a troll, is polite and respectful when he is blasted and genuinely believes in what he writes. You on the other hand are a troll whose sole purpose on this board is to insult and engage in agitation. Your act is done,

Really Rex Murphy an oil shill? Give me a break Mikey. He hates everyone equally. Please do not tell me you can not recall him supporting special treatment for any oil company he never has. The fact that he challenged Trudeau's lack of leadership on the oil pipeline issue does not make him an oil shill and he has never supported any policy that endangers the environment. As a Newfoundlander he made several mentions of how Hibernia was environmentally with great risk. Geez M. Harder, Rex is my main man now that Gwynne Dyer (another Newfoundlander) is no longer on the air. Other then that it is Chantal (Butch) Hebert. Its bad enough you commies took Don Cherry off the air. Have you no decency man...he is a Canadian icon. He is the last literate journalist in the land next to Chantal and come to think of it they look more and more the same as thye age.

I can not say it is or is not and neither can you. That is why I can not give it the trust you argue for not without far more thought and and specifics as to what is being proposed.

Your are a racist troll. You troll. You engage in insults to get attention. You are a troll and you use different names on this forum and you fool no one. You are a racist for your repeated attempts to incite people to engage you in racist taunts. The more you respond to me the more you prove and expose your trolling. You haven't a clue or debate the issues of the thread. Run along. The more you respond the more I prove the point I am sure others now see.

Oh shit and yah QW ...geez no one I hope on either side of the debate questions anyone for surviving in cases like you said. I myself wrestle with that issue. Soldiers go to their deaths unable to sleep questioning what they did. Survivors of genocide do that all the time. Its not something you want to witness anyone wrestle with . It tears people up inside. It causes suicides. I certainly do not presume to understand their pain and price they paid and would never question that. I also do not question the motives of anyone in regards to the Covid issue. Shit no. Just healthy debate. We all are concerned what we do over Covid. This is the place to debate what we do. Hey some Americans take that motto damn seriously others make a mockery of it...for those who suffered having their freedom taken away or fought for it , I have to err on the side of caution for in any debate. Its my way of showing them respect...not taking for granted what they did and endured. I have seen some stuff myself and personally with people in my age group over wars in the Middle East and Vietnam. I can only stay at a respectful distance and remain silent when a survivor or soldier talks. Not my place to do anything else. Likewise with some guys I knew who came back from Serbia and Afghanistan. Not my place but I take what they were trying to do with utmost respect and will never take for granted democracy. Can't. Won't. Totalitarianism even when it starts off well intended can so quickly turn. How many people need die to understand that? I listen to soldiers, refugees, people that lived in horrible regimes and got out of the Soviet controlled states. They are sobering teachers. I want a world where you have freedom and are also safe. Hopefully we balance the two for your sake. I am getting up there. I will be long gone when you inherit what is left. I just hope you have the freedom many came here to enjoy and others never were able to and so many died for.

Obviously I agree with you.

I have exhausted my concerns with you and Argus out of pure respect for the issue. I think eventually we all agree we have to find a safe way to protect the info so we can do early testing and tracking for the right reasons not the wrong ones. I just know to many people from communist and police states and yes my own family history to trust government when it comes to surveillance and this comes from someone who respects Canada for giving me all the freedoms my family dreamed of and soldiers fought for. That is why I find protection of individual rights so important and became a lawyer. We don't disagree on what we need, just how we do it. I am gonna stop now because I sure as hell won't have a troll have me engage in entertainment for him and you notice I will argue with BC more than most on the board but I get the US and speak about them with respect. I may disagree with much of what Trump says and does but his nation and his office is far greater than his individual personality or rudeness. He is in charge of a nation that could easily have imposed a police state by now but has not. I have to admire that. No I do not want anyone dying needlessly but their respect of freedom is real. The comment they support totalitarian regimes is bullshit. The people don't decide the country's foreign policy, financial interests do. What I can say is that when it comes to the support of certain nations like Israel, that came about because of grassroots individual support particularly from the Christian organized groups not just the military industrial complex. Americans when they have a gut sympathy or liking of a country are not influenced by their government. The fact American and Canadian business interests and policies compete and clash has never impacted on the individual link between Yanks and Canadians. That is genuine. Phack the anti US trolls polluting this board and sidetracking this thread. Its a good topic.

Come on Argus he is no more a supporter of Trump or a Trump hater. Wes is pro Trump and agrees with you. We are DEBATING. I refuse to label you. I debate you because you know I respect your opinion. Many of us are non partisan but pro individual rights which is what OW means by conservative. True conservatism is loath to have government initiate and prefers it done by individuals. That is what he meant. Trump is not a true conservative. He is not anything but Trump. He does whatever he believes in the split second. The only consistent thing about his ideology is he does what he thinks suits him at the moment. Its hard to call him anything ideologically speaking. He does reflect distrust of government though big time and Americans love that. Also I do not appreciate Tdot's trolling. I did not find your responses to me being a Jew out of line and he is exploiting it. I raised it first. You had perfect right to respond as you did. You raised it in the context I did. Tdot is a phacking racist troll. I agree with the basic concept we have to do early tracking of course. Just how we do it and how we protect individual rights is what I am arguing. Too easy to give the government powers until there are very real safeguards in place. The track record of our federal government on data leaks is horrible. For that matter data leaks provincially have happened. I prefer Ford's measured approach where he is getting us in Ontario to volunteer without enforcing. Its far more effective and does work. Most of us are reasonable. You also underestimate physicians do not readily want to give out info that is not strictly protected for their clients nor will they force treatment on clients without extremely extraordinary circumstances. Physicians will not be part of a police operation and neither will nurses. Their practice is based on getting consent not imposing.

Not necessarily. By the way an innocent misrepresentation and certain deliberate misrepresentations may not void a policy.

You are a racist troll.

Non absurd positive would be how South Korea uses their app. we would both agree. That would be ideal yes. Easier said then done when guaranteeing no leaks, abuse but in South Korea people are culturally more inclined to follow government intervention. The most likely abuse would be using it to identify individuals with the virus for reasons other than medical control of their disease or having their name leaked violating their privacy, i.e., https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/personal-data-of-144k-canadians/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6116444/canadians-affected-by-data-breach-privacy-commissioner/ Here is an example at the provincial level: https://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2014/10/29/hospital_privacy_violations_rife_in_ontario.html https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/snipits/health-record-snooping-nets-hefty-fine Another possible example of a potential violator could be health insurance companies accumulating underwriting data or medical supply companies looking to see who they can sell to or private health care clinics looking for patients or senior citizen home corporations or property management firms. Privacy issues concerning health records is a major issue in the cyber age of being able to hack into any system.

You again miss the point. American culture detests individual rights being curtailed by the state. The very essence of American collective identity expressed through its laws and behaviour is a distrust of government and that is what you in fact see being expressed. People are defying the quarantine to express the underlying belief that individual rights and freedom should not be endangered by the state taking those rights and freedoms away. While you demand the state have more control over you, Americans demand the exact opposite. Americans are saying they wou li d prefer to die than lose their freedom. That is why Trump has never been more popular. He openly challenges his own government. He plays the role of the rebel who distrusts government. Our leader on the other hand reads fluff scripts. In fact the closest thing we have to Trump is Forf in Ontario who has been frank, open, candid about the failures of government over Covid 19 and appeals to individuals to make the right choice not have it forced on him and he had won over everyone balancing government and individual rights and initiatives. He turned himself into a polite kind Trump. I think the longer we Canadians stay locked up the more likely we will defy the lock downs as well which is why our governments are trying to reopen but carefully.

Oh well then in that case give them my medical info.

He hasn't given much thought to that and many other possible concerns on this thread. I contend he and Argus need to slow down. Yes we need to track diseases of course. Early detection is the key of course. The issue they have not given thought to is how and why our government will obtain info about us let alone guarantee it won't abuse that info. They also fail to address how and why they feel the tracking can not be done by informed consent disclosure as opposed to mandatory disclosure. They also fail to address why the info must be done by an app. They also fail to address how they can guarantee thecspp won't be hacked into. I believe the solution will ultimately involve preventative testing like we do with colon cancer or blood tests when we go to the doctor. That will require we be educated so we engage in the testing voluntarily. The thread assumes the Charter Of Rights can be violated in favour of state power imposed on us for the public good. That is a huge legal assumption let alone assumes nurses and doctors will force themselves on people as state agents.

You engage in a deliberatey absurd sounding assumption as to how a medical tracking app for Covid 19 might be abused to try bellittle any concern that there could be abuse of Covid 19 obtained information. Your exercise of assuming potential abuse of power will only occur in cirumstances you assume is subjective and self-serving to your argument and not based on actual facts. Therefore your example is meaningless as it can not be proven or disproved. It is also illogical to assume actual abuses of power can only be speculated by you let alone using the circumstances you did. As well assuming only the person tracked might be exposed to abuse of government is premature. A scenario of abusing medical information could also possibly arise from using the information obtained from one or more sujects tracked to justify violating the rights of another individual or individuals other then the ones tracked.

There you go again delegating your need to think for yourself to someone else. What prevents you from looking at the pros and cons of any issue let alone apps?

How many times must you be told tracking trackers is complex and problematic and your assuming it can be done let alone is not hard is a trite assumption given with no thought to the complexity and difficulty in the task you assume can be done. It also assumes that tracking trackers prevents the damage the tracker caused in the first place which is not necessarily the case. You ask for people to give up their freedoms to the state and then assume the state will police itself and people should give blind trust. No. Institutions demanding blind faith have been shown to abuse their power precisely because of blind faith and placing safeguards to guarantee the prevention of abuse of power before the power is delegated. History and law have made thatbkesson abundantly clear. Non I do not allow you to point a gun at my head assumebif you shoot me for the wrong reason putting you in jail helps me plug the hole in my head or come back to life or makes my life whole again because you paid me in a private lawsuit compensation for remaining maimed.