Temagami Scourge

I just want to say that I do not know Captain Goddard personally, but I am proud for the service she has done for this country in assisting those who need it. It is our best interests to realize that there is a price to pay for being a part of this war, and that we are still in the honeymoon stage when it comes to casualties. We need to prepare for more, and this i'm not looking forward to. My heart goes out to those who will have to deal with a huge hole in their lives; her family, friends and compatriots.

Will this death change the vote? I believe we should stay the course in Afghanistan, but a female KIA is a lot harder to swallow than a male KIA. If that makes me a chauvinist, then so be it.

comfort: You've been reading this with some interest? Usually, that's what people say when they are about to comment on something they have no clue about. let's see what you say... "Some of us choose not to walk through life with a chip on our shoulders and make the best of life, I choose to work for a living and raise my children to be proud of their heritages." who has a chip on their shoulders? When you mention raising your children to be proud of themselves, are you making the blanket assumption that Native folks aren't? Many come here and do just that. I hope you aren't one of them.... I completely disagree with the way Governments have handled this whole issue. It stinks. In the time since you've been Canadian, have you written to your MP and/or MPP and asked them to resolve Aboriginal issues like land claims and sexual abuse at residential schools? have you cared, or does the topic come up whenever you see the word "blockade" with a picture of an Indian standing there? Self Government, don't think so, not when most native groups don't handle what they have given to them now well. Comfort...I am Native. I live in a city and pay taxes. I got my university education before the government recognized that I was, indeed, an indian (although there was no doubt about it my entire life, looking the way I do). I think I'm a pretty smart guy, and I k now lots of other Natives in the same boat. I am a vet, I raise two proud boys, have been married for 18 years 9longer than a lot of white folks i know), and you mean to tell me that -because i'm a card-carrying Indian- i'm incapable of handling my business and need non-Native guidance in how i politic? geez...If it wasn't for that kind of attitude I might actually be proud to be a Canadian, but I'm not because my fellow Canadians hold me and others like me in such disdain. personally, I think you could use my leadership, given what yours has been like for the past few decades. I see how these people CHOOSE to live, and don't give me that crap about being held down. You've been to my place? how's the garden look? I enjoy shooting hoops with my boys. What makes me so different than my neighbours? Am I whining for more of something? They have new houses, new cars, their education is paid for, healthcare is paid for ( including dental, optical), no taxes or GST on reserves. Houses! Cars! Taxes! What a load of crap. I've been to many reserves and have hung with many urban Aboriginal people, and the only time I've seen new stuff was when it was earned. I've never had a "free" house, i've never had a "free" car, and i've been status for over 20 years now. Where are my trinkets and baubles? I'll tell you Comfort, they are nowhere, because you are feeding us a load of white priviledged bullcrap. besides, as i've often made this point, do you think it was an unfair trade for all the land called Canada in exchange for medical assistance, education and housing? Because if you don't think its a good trade, I'll certainly take the land back and pay for my own education, housing and medical assistance. If they have to go see a specialist or a dentist in the city, their transportation, hotel and meals are all paid for. See above. Schools lunches are paid for and there is much much more. what!?...you are blaming us for school lunch programs too? What a minute buddy, these are for all children, not just Aboriginal children. I friggin' knew it...you are a liar making up stuff that you've heard third or fourth hand. All that's lacking is motivation and discipline. Do you want to tell me what I lack in motivation and discipline. If I didn't dedicate my own time to these threads, God knows what kind of drivel you'd be spewing out among everyone here. You'd probably be in the same league as River, where you are left to justify child rape as the price for getting an education! The Government a few years back even lowered the bar on entrance standard for aboriginals. Isn't that saying that you simply don't have the intelligence that the rest of Canada has - and you acept that? Gee...I certainly don't recall that. Are we living in the same country? To be honest, i'm of the impression that I lose more intelligence in my morning movement than you've committed in ideas to this thread! The avenues are there but they choose total and complete dependancy. not really. I'd gladly trade back the rights for the land and go on my own way with no interference from your governmental system. I don't want to give you the appearance of being a burden on you, personally. I feel sorry for none, they are choosing to take the money Yep, $1.9 billion for getting raped by priest and reverends! and all the perks, Yep, nothing like being overrepresented in the jails or as street prostitutes! Canada just keeps on giving... but not to pick themselves up for their betterment and continue to want this humiliation . Anyone who supports continued dependancy on the backs of the rest of Canadians is a fool. I agree with you wholeheartedly here, my friend! As I said, give me back the land and I'm on my way! No more education, housing or medical assistance! We'll just call everything square. History,- gee, maybe the natives are going to compensate the thousands of slaughtered white women and children with none other than a tomahawk? sure....I'd gladly do that if you coerce your government into handing back the land for the treaty rights we dealt with. I'd even agree that Natives made residential schools for White folks too! We'll call the enacting legislation the "the White Act". And while were at it, if the want to live the way their ancestors did I guess that means no snowmobiles, no guns, no helcopters, no boats etc. etc. Oh...Natives aren't allowed to live in the 21st century either? Tell me this then, comfort, where were your snowmobiles in 1675? Where were your jets in 1809? Where were your helicopters in 1912? How is it that only white people get these things? explain that one to me?

Naci: you hit the nail on the head with your last post. however, I'm sure some of the partisan whiners here will cry foul to high heaven for having one of their own besmerched on a public forum.

Comfort: ...and it's a typical racist strategy to blurt out that some of their best friends are non-white, like Morgan does IN PRINT, of all places. Liberal, conservative or Zorastrian, any idiot that goes on about attending black churches to cover his ass is a fool. Morgan shouldn't have said stupid crap like he did in the first place. As I said, I've known many Jamaican-Canadians from living in T.O., and a statement like he made implicating that every manjack of 'em is a potential gun user is pure, unadulterated, ethnocentric bulls**t. He can complain about criminals to his heart's content, but criminals are bad people, not just bad Black people or bad Vietnamese people.

That's a great idea, why don't we get rid of cars while we're at it...that way we can eliminate the over 400 deaths per year on Alberta highways alone. I disagree. Why, because cars are made for transportation and occasionally get involved in accidents that take lives. Guns are tools whose sole purpose is to kill. If you miss by an inch, you wound. We have no true need for guns in private homes, but we do have needs for cars. I see the difference. The only link between gun and car-related deaths is how drunk the shooter/driver is. See, the thing is that even with recent shootings in Toronto and elsewhere, Canada does not have a gun violence problem. The number of gun-related deaths per year is miniscule compared to workplace accidents, car crashes etc. Again, we need jobs, we need motorized transport, but why do we need guns? This is a non-argument. Scrapping the gun registry does not mean scrapping gun control. Prior to the doomed from conception registry, Canada had one of the most stringent set of gun laws in the world. We can quit wasting hundreds of millions on a useless program and still have first-rate gun control. yeah, but the CPC won't scrap the registry because it has a political price tag that they never considered in terms of employment. I think many people who still argue in support of the registry think that with it gone, we'd be left with no gun laws at all...couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm sure they would, but I've handled many a gun and I've come to the conclusion that guns are little more than another male penis extension for guys who don't feel powerful enough at their day jobs. Hammers can build buildings and can be used to kill people. Guns kill people and aren't designed to build buildings.

I say solve the problem by getting rid of guns period. Only police and armed forces personnel can access guns period. ...and I hunt. Having dealt with people toting guns, it is my opinion that a gun is like rum....it gives people instant courage. get 'em back where you have to go toe-to-toe to take out someone and you'll see how small people get, and so fast! People can hunt with bows and arrows if they are desparte to hunt, and if folks are scared of getting eaten by a bear, then either learn to get away from them or stay in the city. otherwise, anything else to do with guns is a waste of time and money.

"He and his wife "basically love the Caribbean. We attend their churches. In fact, in January we were at an all-black church," he told the committee." Sweet Jesus...this is priceless! "We attend their churches" ....my, how white of the man! "(we)....basically love the Caribbean" Media question: then surely you know, Mr. Morgan, that the Caribbean is made up of a number of distinct nationalities. Are you certain that it was a Jamaican church you attended? Maybe is was a Barbadan church, or a Trinidadian church? mr. M: Uh, Uh, Uh... Media: Mr. Morgan...you've been to an all-black Church, would any of your friends be black? Mr. M: Why yes, Conrad Black.

In a telephone interview with CTV Calgary, the former Calgary oil executive who ran EnCana Corp. dismissed the opposition's rejection of a public appointments commission as nothing but "partisan politics." "I think Canadians should be disappointed by the way this process has played out," Morgan said. "All I wanted was to help my country, besides that, there wasn't a lot in it for me." Morgan would have been paid a salary of $1 per year as head of the commission. Oh boohoo...someone...where is my violin! Ya gotta love guys like Morgan...blame everyone but ME.......... Cripes, I lived at Jane and Finch for years, and i'll bet that -unlike Morgan- I've actually met Jamican-Canadians...even knew their names. Heck, I've had fights with Jamaican-canadians, parties with them, played sports with them, learned what a bommel-clatt, rastaclatt AND a bloodclatt is, and I can safely say that there are some badass mofos, but there are people like that in any community. Or put it in these words, what if Michaelle John spoke about the problems in canada's white community that give birth to serial killers and mass murderers? Whites would be livid (even though all our serial killers and mass murdereres are Caucasian...women included). Well, Ms. Jean couldn't get away with it, then why is it cool for Morgan to talk about "all" Jamaicans being gun-murdering types when clearly it is a small minority that happens to get a lot of press? Nah, we don't need fools like Morgan. he should stick to business, where he thrives, but leave government out of the equation where we know that his personal angst will play a roll in his decision-making process.

Morgan said this at the Fraser Insitute dinner: "Jamaica has one of the world's highest crime rates driven mainly by the violence between gangs competing for dominance in the Caribbean drug trade. Why do we expect different behaviour in Toronto, Ontario, than in Kingston, Jamaica?" He went on to state the same about Vietnamese immigrants and their predisposition to violent crime as well. Yes, he has also been a vocal critic of all things Liberal, but regardless of his success at EnCana, anyone in their right mind knows you don't make racists comments and expect everyone to ignore it. It didn't help an idiot like ahenakew, regardless of how many medals he won for being an utstanding Canadian, and Harper should have known better that to try to put morgan in the Commisioners chair in the first place. Now he is whinning like a spoiled brat, and its an embarrassment to Canada. The first political rebuff he suffers and he gives up and says "I need a majority". To me, a true leader should be able to work through a minority by engaging the opposition, not just using them as a punching bag whenever things don't go his way. Harper is more of the problem than Morgan. At least Morgan is an outstanding businessman and an honest social idiot.

"We have tons of doctors, but an ineffective system of using them" This is the biggest load of tripe I've heard yet. Tons of doctors? Ontario is crying for MD's. We have three-hour long waits at the local health clinic for the one doctor on duty. If you luck out and have a family doctor, keep them alive, whatever you may do. Most of Ontario is without a family doctors, but I'm of the impression that the poster who made the above statement is likely an Albertan, and from my experience, Albertans don't have the most solid view on real life issues. They are the people who somehow believe that following right-wing policies ensures that oil will grow beneath their feet. Hence, I can see someone saying "we have tons of doctors", when the reality is that many an aspiring doctor wants to get a piece of the oil money so they set up shop in Alberta. That is an economic reality based on an incentive, but it is meaningless in a dicussion about Canadian health care.

"Website is down..." I was just there moments ago. Try again.

River, geoffy,etc: Hey...Check out this website and look for members of the Native Victim Industry; www.turtleisland.org They could be anywhere.........

No truth: I don't understand why you'd want our law enforcement officials surrendering to criminals? I think it should be the other way around. Buddy...I don't know why you'd want to joke about killing police officers. I didn't find that funny at all, especially during times like these.

Geoffy: "Canadians believe in a country with rule of law, which obviously these Indians don't agree with." Hunh? No Truth says he wants to waste cops, and you say that the Indians are the problem? Gotta love that double standard! Why not go after him for making such a blaise statement about the Police? Or do you find it funny to talk about killing police officers? I can't actually be expected to accept people as fellow citizens that believe that they have a god given right to not follow societies laws. I bet that you look more like Hitler than myself, Pinball Clemons or Olivia Chow. It is illegal to blockade roads and force people out of jobs on the other side. Geooffy..do you have a clue as to what you are talking about? No? I didn't think so. you see geoff...I've been to Kaledonia. many times. Six Nations too. I know lots of people from these parts, and have even been to the blockade (and I'm going there this weekend). I haven't seen any non-Native suffer, unless having them stand at the police tape and yell insults at the Indians keeps them from making an honest dollar. Now, I do know a Native woman who lives three blocks from the protest -in the heart of Kaledonia- and she gets young white fellas walking by her house calling her and her kids "Squaws" and "bitches". She seems to be the only one put out, and yet she makes it to T.O. to work everyday! They should all be arrested. If I did that in protest, it would be quickly ended and I'd be sitting in a cell. But when Indians do it, it's ok. That's probably because the Indians have some legal ground to stand on, eh? I've seen every argument in the world that the land in question has been sold, and so far, this has done much good for either the Federal or provincial governments...unless, of course, there is something they know about the land that they haven't bothered to let the rest of Canada know about? Oh yes, and I certainly hope you'd be arrested. I couldn't see you having a valid anything to fight for. I shouldn't be blaming the Indians I know, but you do, so what the heck? they are being allowed to do this so why not? Wow...you Caucasians have to think that you rule over everything! The Six Nations people did this of their own accord, they never received permission from non-Natives to protest! It sends their message out clearly and there is no consequences. What, like losing the land in question? That's a pretty big consequence to me...especially if there is a question as to the validity of the purchase, never mind the amount, or where the investment went. I should be blaming our elected officals that don't have the backbone to go in there and arrest everyone breaking the law, end the blockade and permenantly jail everyone that attacks cops in the process. Well, you get on your MPP and MP's cases. While your at it, why don't you also write the same people and ask them to take the time to solve Native claims across the country, instead of leaving them in limbo and creating further circumstances for more Kaledonias? Too bad you didn't think about writing your elected reps years ago to solve these claims...this may never of even happened had you done so....but what the heck....I guess you just want to go back to blissfully ignore the Indians again.

River: Some kids were sexually abused at residential schools. Some kids were physically abused. Others were disciplined using techniques that are considered abuse today but were acceptable at the time. Many kids were suffered from the effects of an underfunded system and did not receive adequate food or medical care. All this adds up to a pretty horrible experience. However, your problem is you think you can make a point by claiming 'systematic rape' or 'genocide'. Only some were raped? I don't know about you River, but the Canada i prefer to live in doesn't turn a blind eye to child rape. Any rape is bad to me, but apparently, a raped Native child is water off a duck's back in your world. Only some were physically abused? and even the abuses were nothing out out the ordinary? Are you sure you read the RCAP River? don't you remeber this excerpt: "In 1896, Agent D.L. Clink refused to return a child to the Red Deer school because he feared "he would beabused". Without ever being reprimanded by the principal, a teacher had beaten children severely on several occasions, one of whom had to be hospitalized. "Such brutality," Clink concluded, "should not be tolerated for a moment" and "would not be tolerated in a white school for a single day in any part of Canada."247" Hmmmm. 1896 and even then the agent knew that the punishment when beyond the pale, and yet you maintain that this was the norm for that time period? Buddy, what the kids went through in those schools was the norm for the Marquis de Sade or Genghis Khan, but certainly not Canada. Although I'd love to know what proof you have that shows up the RCAP and make you beleive that residential schools were little more than an all-seasons kids camp. It is those exaggerations that I object to and the reason I find it difficult to believe anything you say. I have already caught you making false statements on this forum. If anyone appears to be shovelling the bull river, you win that one hands down. You still haven't disproved the 50,000 dead, and yet two separate posters have given you links citing this figure. In the immoratl words of Jerry Maguire, River, SHOW US THE MONEY! I made no claim that the problems were the fault of natives. I know...you just imply it repeatedly. Je comprendre. If made it clear that I have a big problem with the native victim industry which seeks to push their racist agenda down the throats of Canadians through a campaign of propaganda, exaggeration and outright lies. a)What victim industry? where are they? What are their names? Show me the Native Victim Industry! Is it anything like the World-wide Jewish banking conspiracy to rule the world? I'm of the impression that many Occidentals need to find scary conspiracies to explain away their own incompetence and why life is sooooooo hard for them. Historically speaking, I tend to believe that Euro-Canadians hold a lock on the lies and exaggerations. I also find it amusing that you'd accuse Native people of lies and exaggerations given the type of politicians you and your fellow Canadians elect. But that is different from saying that the social plight of natives today is all their fault. I also stated that I don't have a problem spending a lot of money providing assistance provided this assistance is not in the form of permanent race based entitlements. Buddy, you can't have one without the other. Your people signed agreements with my people. We traded our land away for certain rights. Just because we are beige is not the point, but rather the fact that we were here first. If you don't like those facts, then pressure your governments to go to war against Aboriginal Canadians, just like your American cousins did, and then feel free to dictate terms to us. RE: Native North Americans and Africans and their respective continents: I made no such statement. you didn't? then what is this supposed to mean: "Give me break. North America would be a hopeless basketcase like Africa today if the British/Americans had not overrun the continent." Pretty clear to me. Just like our African brothers, the arrival of Europeans and their natural superiority made our continents just shine...except for when you gave the Africans back their continent, and they proceeded to turn it into a "basketcase". nah...I think I hear you pretty clearly, River. I said native society lacked "social institutions necessary to build the sophisticated modern economy". Nothing in that statement implies that natives as individuals are not capable of participating in a modern economy. You're absolutely right. Nothing you say says natives can't participate in a modern economy...it simply says natives (and I assume other non-Caucasians) are incapable of creating a modern economy. Well, i'd like to see you re-argue this one in twenty/thirty years time when the Chinese and Indian (the real ones) economies are driving the world. I realize that there are some legal treaties that are currently enforceable in our court system that give some native groups certain rights. River....are you sure you know anything about Canadian history? My god...it is terrible to see what a disservice our educational system does to the average Canadian when they haven't a clue about our own history! Just terrible! Just like US plantation owners used to have legal documents that entitled them to own another person and all of the children that person created. However, I think any racist law is illegitimate and has no place in our society today no matter what the courts may say. what...like "whites only" bathrooms, water fountains and buses? Laws creating these things are indeed racist laws, and have since been struck down. I can't think of any other kind of Canadian law that discriminates against any particular group? Can you? You reap what you sow. If you blockade roads or use the court system to demand special rights because you are "Indians" then don't be surprised if you are called "Indians" and not "Canadians". Au contraire mon ami! We have been called Indians and a host of other names for the past few centuries. We only became "Canadian" in the 1950's, and even then we weren't described as such. However, since some Canadians have gotten on this "why are they tax exempt" kick over the last decade or so, I see more and more non-Natives telling us that we are Canadian, and no different than anyone else. That's fine. I believe I'm no different than anyone else. I believe that I have a duty to live up to agreements made by my people. What I can't understand is why you don't? In fact, that I why I oppose native treaties so strongly: I believe they serve only to increase the racial tensions in our society over time. that's only because you let yourself get upset. Why not be like your Dad or any of your forebears? They didn't seem too upset by Treaties in their day? Heck, why not do what your forebears did when things got unpleasant for them and leave? You might be happy in the U.S., they beat their Indians fair and square. Jeepers, you might be happy in Europe, where there are no treaties at all! Especially, if the social conditions in native society improves and the 'sympathy factor' no longer persuades some people to overlook the blatant racism of native treaty rights. oh...so it's alright (and natural I guess) for euro-Canadians to get ahead, but we certainly can't have those Natives doing it in anyway...it would be, well, unnatural?

I have to agree with gc1765. Even though an abundance of information has been provided vis-a-vis treaties, rights, residential schools and everything else imaginable vindicating Aboriginal Canadians, numerous posters here simply refuse to believe anything that doesn't jive with their ingrained belief that Canada has done oh-so-much for Aboriginal people. In essence, there is a denial that anything really bad happened to Native kids at residential schools; we have people here who perversely feel that getting repeat butt-rapings in exchange for an education is somehow a good trade-off. We get people like Riverend who say they read "large parts" of the RCAP, and yet have no understanding that the generations of "quality" educational programming at residential schools pumped out boys who were alcoholic abusers and girls who quickly became street whores. Instead, River believes that these social concerns are the Indians own fault because they just aren't quite as "with it" as the average Euro-Canadian...and for proof, River and friends offer "factual" evidence that only Europeans made North America what it is today because the Natives, like all Africans, are incapable of advanced thought. Of course, no one thinks of what may have happened if things were left alone, but so what? Additionally, for a guy who supposedly read "large parts" of RCAP, how can he continue to question treaties? If anything is explained in overwhelming detail in the report, it is the treaty-based relationship between the Crown and the First Nations here. Additionally, the report points out one of my favorite points: The treaties are based on eliminating the title of the people who were already here; they were certainly not signed simply because the Crown "loved" Natives so much that they felt the need to provide lands, perpetual funding for housing, medical and education, and other treaty items because their skin was a lovely brown color! ...and yet when you listen to our fellow Canadians, they completely believe that there is no other basis for treaties than race. They insist on this belief by saying that Indians "are immigrants too". But the piece-de-resistance is this desire on the part of many on this thread who insist that Natives are Canadians and therefore should be treated the same. Well, if we are "the same", then why doesn't anyone refer to us as Canadians? To me, "sameness" means we are on the same team or same side, but every, single poster here talks about "natives", "Indians", "First Nations" or whatever identifiers they bestow on us. I've yet to see some one say "Gee, it's terrible to see the land issue between the Canadians down at Caledonia." or "...it's too bad that Canadian, Dudley George, was shot and killed by the OPP". nosiree! I don't think I can be considered a "Canadian" on one hand, when clearly I'm an Indian for every other purpose. So don't give me this "we are the same" crap when hardly anyone truly thinks this way.

River (truth denier)End: "It is quite possible the Royal Commission did not include those figures because the Commission felt the numbers were bogus ." Prove it. The men were sourced. The stats were INAC's, and they were sourced. what are you going to tell us next? Auschwitz was a wonderland with cool kiddy rides? Gimme a break. You should be proving me wrong (which none of you have been able to do so far). go nuts.

Sans Truth: Getting back to the actual occupation, why is it that no one from the OPP has come forward to explain how they made such a mess of the initial raid? Actually, you should contact the Turtle Island News on Six Nations. They took a wealth of pictures during the raid, including pictures of the OPP snipers putting their hands up to show that they aren't touching their weapon (It does look like a surrender, but that would be wishful thinking). The fracas was well-documented by Aboriginal media, so try contacting those sources. Mainstream is neither/nor on this issue. I'll be asking my Provincial representative to make sure heads roll for that disaster. You do it guy! Work those rights of yours! I'll also be curious as to why the Army wasn't immediately called ou to deal with an attack on our law enforcement personnel. Yes...let's call the army for every drunk that swings at a cop. I'm surprised the army didn't come in when the drunken Kaledonians charged the roadblock. they could've grabbed a number of the youths yelling at the peaceful Natives and got them into the army, where their violent ways could be put to effective use. The next time I get a speeding ticket, I'll simply beat the officer to death and claim I'm one of the "native people". This is the part I always chuckle at! and they say that Natives are above the law, when rank and file Canadians want to kill the police, like no truth does! Truth...maybe you should join the army. It builds muscle and backbone when I was in. Try it.

River: This is in the listed Report's bibliography, from Dr. Kevin Arnett. Another excellent source is Dr. John Milloy, who goes into greater detail, but you have to buy his book on genocide. Both of these authors' work were extensively used in the Royal commission. "...For it was the residential "schools" that constituted the death camps of the Canadian Holocaust, and within their walls nearly one-half of all aboriginal children sent there by law died, or disappeared, according to the government's own statistics. These 50,000 victims have vanished, as have their corpses, "like they never existed," according to one survivor. But they did exist; they were innocent children, and they were killed by beatings and torture, and after being deliberately exposed to tuberculosis and other diseases by paid employees of the churches and government, according to a "Final Solution" master plan devised by the Department of Indian Affairs and the Catholic and Protestant churches...." There is more about Indian Affairs and the Churches discussing a "final solution" in 1910...over thirty years before the Nazis put the term to popular use, but I thought just the above quote was sufficient. Man...it must be nice to deny history...and here I only thought it was Nazi-sympathizers that did that! On this site, you get rank and file Canadians!

Geoffrey: "I've never seen any convincing evidence, show me the proof and I'll believe you. I don't take peoples' word at face value when there is a cheque waiting for them depending on what they say." I realize this attitude Geoff. This is typical of people like you, and this attitude makes it easier for serial killers to operate among the poorer classes because -you know- them poor folks just want money anyway, so they'll say anything. I guess even serial killers and pedophiles need friends too. Anyway, we could put up all manner of numbers, and folks like you or the goofs in KKKaledonia wouldn't believe it one way or the other. So, here is a portion of Dr. Jennifer Wades' address on Vancouver pedophile rings from '98. She makes some comparisons to Native residential schools. I'm sure you'll love it... "Dr. Jennifer Wade is a founder of Amnesty International in Vancouver; An Excerpt from her Keynote Address on April 30, 1999: More and more in recent years we have been learning that one does not need to go far field to hear of the sexual exploitation of children and youth. It is a very, very serious problem right here in Vancouver. In March 1997, no less a paper than the Christian Science Monitor highlighted the flourishing sex trade with children, right here in Vancouver, referring to the city as "a pedophile's paradise," a place known for its "notorious sex trade," and saying that Vancouver has gained an international reputation "as a city where it is easy to find a child for sex." In January of this year, the Vancouver Courier published an article entitled "Coming on to our Children" (January 31, 1999). For many, it was no doubt a wake-up call first of all to read that this was happening in their neighbourhoods, and secondly, to find out what people working in the court systems have known for a long time: that many of the people involved were churchmen, lawyers, businessmen, and possibly neighbours whom they probably know. They would also perhaps be surprised to read that children as young as 12 were being lured into the sex trade in such places as upscale shopping malls and schoolyards. The article also made another important point. It indicated that once children are drawn into a grotesque, deviant subculture with a language and, yes, even a sense of community of its own, it becomes increasingly difficult to escape..... ...But the sex trade in children, especially young Native children, goes back much further than the time of Renate Andres-Auger. This became a very real fact to me, unthinkable as it was, last June 12 to 14 when I happened to attend a Tribunal arranged by a UN affiliate group here in Vancouver to hear testimonies of Native people who had attended the church-run residential schools. Although I have been associated with Amnesty International since its beginnings in 1961, I must admit that what I heard at that Tribunal was horribly disturbing and shattering. I am still haunted by the disturbing accounts given of little children, aged 5 and 6, being taken from their parents and grandparents by police who took them in gunboats to schools, some of them never to see their homes or their villages again..... ....Not only were tales recounted of unfathomable cruelty and torture to little children dragged away from their homes and put under the legal guardianship of church-run schools, but even worse were the accounts given of pedophile groups consisting of church men and women administering what were called "white vitamins" to little children of 9 and 10 who were taken one by one to the so-called infirmary at night. Few of them recalled what happened next except that when they came to, they often saw blood on a sheet and remembered experiencing great pain..... ....Harriet Nahanee, a Native elder, has given the police her story of hearing a young child called Maisie Williams crying on Christmas Eve for her mother after being with one of the alleged pedophiles at the Port Alberni School. And then Ms. Nahanee testified that this child was pushed down the basement steps to where Harriet Nahanee was herself hiding. This young girl is reported by Ms. Nahanee to have died, and this is confirmed in a copy of the school records I have seen. Ms. Nahanee herself alleges she was molested time and time again by the principal of the school, a Rev. Caldwell, who has since died. And the police therefore claim they can take no action on her story. Other women at the Tribunal testified to "being cleaned up" on a Saturday night and being taken often by Native people themselves to clients. One person mentioned the Vancouver Club...... ....At this same Tribunal, a Native man spoke abut being taken home by a teacher at Christmas and then being given alcohol before being sexually molested. The names of many Reverends, Sisters, Fathers, and Brothers were given as story after story of terrifying sexual exploitation and cruelty was told. To run away was to risk merciless beatings with electrical wires and horse harnesses - perhaps even death in the barns, one man said. All of this is on record. How prevalent such cases were, one can only guess..... ...Certainly everyone here tonight should think carefully upon the figures given in the Royal Commission Report on Aboriginals that 125,000 children went into those schools and 50,000 never came out. We can only guess what those children, both boys and girls, were subjected to. Undoubtedly, only part of the anguish was sexual exploitation, but it was a very horrible part that has remained an enduring nightmare for many of the victims. Certainly, as one listened amid the sobbing and the anguish at that Tribunal to stories being told of all kinds of sexual predators and perverts, one realized that these schools, often in remote places with inaccessible transportation, must have been havens for sexual perverts and pedophiles...." Man...50,000 of the 125,000 that went in never came out. What a bonus for the Canadian government that must be! They only have to pay $1.9 Billion because many other prospective victims are already dead...many of them likely murdered too, but that little tidbit is meaningless in "Geoffrey-Land"! Heck, no. we need to see some "proof" first? Why listen to liars?

TS: Why is Kashechewan flown out every few months? River: Because the band council hands responsibility for monitoring the water system to unqualified people who don't take their job seriously. TS: Oh...and here I thought that the Feds building the initial waterplant downstream from the sewage outlet was the problem. However, I thought that they were flown out lately because of the ice damn creating a flood problem. I guess the best thing is to just blame those backwards Indians! TS: If the government was supposed to protect Native people through the treaties, then why were untold numbers of children raped in Canadian schools? River: Gross exagerration and you know it. It was what...only $1.9 billion worth of rape! that's all! Pipelines cost more! The native 'victim' industry is really milking the residential school issue. TS: Wow...if that's what you think of the Natives, I wonder what you think of the Jewish "victim" industry? TS: Why are there so many addiction issues? River: Take a few hundred white people. Put them on a plot a land in the middle of nowhere with no economic base and pay them to stay there. You would see exactly the same social problems that you see among natives. The solution is: stop wasting time with native treaties and the native 'victim' industry and make it clear that integration into the mainstream economy on equal terms with everyone else is the best long term strategy. TS: how come the Natives never had those problems in the old days, when they went out on the land hunting and trapping? River: Uh....well, if you'd have given them more time they would have had those problems! TS: Really? here I thought all the craziness began when the Natives were made to stay in one place by the Feds for better administrative purposes? River: They were never made to stay in one place! TS: Hunh? I thought it was law that you had to go to school? If the Native roamed their homeland, then they were breaking the law and the parents could be arrested, and the children taken by Children's Aid (and probably for a darn good raping, when you think about it)? River, my buddy, do you know anything about Canadian history (not John Wayne movies...we didn't have murderous Apaches running around up here)?

Life according to Riverend: Riverend sentence: "Give me break. North America would be a hopeless basketcase like Africa today if the British/Americans had not overrun the continent." What's really in Riverend's mind: of course, because it would only be through the intuitive hard work of advanced Europeans that anything ever gets done...history proves me right! Uh,oh...but I don't want to sound like a bigot, so I'll add a contradictory sop so people won't notice what I really mean. Riverend sentence: "The Natives deserve credit for their contribution and our society today would not likely be as successful as it is without that contribution." What's really in Riverend's mind: Geez, I really don't know anything that Natives did, other than they want my land after we beat them at Custer's last stand or something. It's just not right. Natives have been so unfair to us since we came here and made this continent productive! Riverend sentence: "However, it is rediculous to pretend that native society had the social institutions necessary to build the sophisticated modern economy that exists today." What's really in Riverend's mind: Damn...I can never remember how to spell ridiculous! Well, it doesn't matter anyway, because even though some Natives can spell ridiculous properly, they never would have been able to do it without getting a European education! Besides, i've read enough literature that I know that Natives would never have amounted to anything because they didn't have real social insitutions like us advanced Europeans did. and i've got many Europeans that would back me up on that! I mean. look how they run their reserves! Riverend sentence: "At this point in time, the only reasonable resolution to historical wrongs is to forget about who is decended from whom and provide temporary assistance to those who need help." What's really in Riverend's mind: Ok...I've got to end this point , but I don't know how. Oh...wait a minute, I'll say that we need to ignore the Natives today because...well...well we'll help those Natives who are in trouble today....Yeah...that sounds good, i'll try that...

river: "My point exactly" not quite. In fact, far from. What you are arguing is that slave laws are relic laws, and Canadian laws pertaining to Aboriginal people also happen to be old, ergo they are also relic laws and therefore should be abolished. However, you miss the crucial point that olde time British laws recognized the fact that there were already Aboriginal laws in place and had to be dealt with. There is no such issue with slavery laws. The British created them and abandoned them. The British did not create Native laws, but recognized them, and have tried to incorporate them under their own law, which has created half-ass job ever since. Regardless, the bottom line is that you simply do not want to pay for your fair share of Canada. I understand that. You want free land, water and all kinds of goodies by ignoring any Native rights or ownership. Most people of European stock want free stuff. That's pretty much why they came here. However, the reality is that nothing is for free, and the courts recognize the fact that the Crown has created terms for the perpetual use of "Canada", and as the Crown, they must continue to pay. From my perspective, your Crown has not been living up to its obligations, and so they must pay more, or return the land if they no longer wish to pay. Ergo, why are the people from Six Nations grumbling about a relatively small piece of land that even the government has stalled in court for over 20 years. Why is Kashechewan flown our every few months? why were untold numbers of children raped in Canadian schools? Why are there so many addiction issues? Where is the protection the Crown offered? Where is the safety? Why is it better to blame the Natives for their problems when successive generations of governments tried to use the Indians a guinea pigs for their social experiments? No...your government has not kept up its end of the bargain, and natives recognize this fact. Some don't want to be bought off anymore, and it is at this point that you figure "they" should abide by your laws. So far, your argument has not shown much in the way of coherence, but that's only my backwards, native view.

River: "Slave owners in the 1800s had legal documents that proved they legally purchased the slaves they owned. The fact these legal documents exist do not mean the descendents of slave owners should have their slaves returned to them" Slaves were legally emancipated under British law, therefore there already was an override in place. The same cannot be said about Native treaties here, nor, for that matter, are Canadians dumb enough to call for the overturn of the Treaty of Paris, thus returning Quebec to France. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it....however, that idea is a normal Anglo-Saxon practice, so you might just be used to getting your way.