blueblood

I was watching ol duffy, and I seen another interview with N.L. premier Danny Williams. i don't know about anyone else, but i have tremendous respect for the guy, he has integrigy, doesn't back down, takes care of the people in his province, too bad the liberals cant field a leader like this

Unfortunately blueblood, rural people are as likely if not more likely to be obese. Some quote lack of gym services... who knows? Obesity is the new smoking (maybe all those quiting smoking are in fact worse off?)... we tax unhealthy activities like smoking but not being fat. Why not? Why is criticism of fat people (a now larger burden on our system then smokers, no pun intended) taboo but smokers ok? It's a good question, and I don't really have an answer. I think it rests with the attitude that they can't do anything about it, so how can we be critical. Well, that's just the lazy attitude that gets them there in the first place. Maybe society should be more critical, harder for fat people. Then like smokers, they'll adapt to the reality that their activities are a burden on everyone, and clean up their act? Well from what i've seen with my own two eyes, i couldn't find an obese person fresh off the farm, but in town and in the city there's a pile of them. It's pretty hard to have an outdoor job and be obese at the same time, I haven't seen a obese person at an outdoor job, maybe you have, whatever. You can't tax junk food because it is unfair to those who eat junk food and aren't obese. If we tax all unhealthy activities we might as well tax farmers, oil field workers, miners, lumber workers, and fishermen extra, those jobs are all dangerous and they take up hospital beds too and it's their choice to live this lifestyle. Putting the obese people on the bottom of the of the waiting list and forcing them to go private is punishment enough. If plugging up the hospitals is the concern then go after the universities to put more people thru med school, make it a nightmare for canadian trained doctors to go to the states, invest more in hospitals, this might cost money, but i think those special interest groups that the liberals like to "buy off" can be cut. It's better to invest heavily in a program that works and all can enjoy instead of catering to a wide range of special interest groups with half assed programs and a half assed medicare to boot.

I think that in our modern healthcare system that those are obese should be at the bottom of the line in the wait lines, if they want to skip ahead in the lines they can shell out the dough for health insurance and let the insurance companies penalize them. I don't think that taxing food is a good idea, it punishes the people that are not obese. This could lead to another rural vs. urban issue as if you go out to the country side there are not nearly as many obese people due to our lifestyle. i have a sweet tooth and i shouldn't have to suffer because some fat ass is too lazy to exercise. Crank up the phys-ed program in school with mandatory programs, if a person knows they can't eat junk food then they shouldn't eat it. the parents should set better examples. And change the labour laws so that it gives time for parents to be parents, nothing wrong with shifts. It's a change in society thats going to fight obesity, I believe in time that obesity will become the new smoking and numbers will drop like with smoking as society despises it, for example you can express disgust at a smoker, but God help you if you call a girl fat.

I support the CPC on a lot of their policies, but killing off the wheat board is not a good idea, lets screw the people working for the CWB out of a career big thumbs up there. It's been to my understanding that the wheat board saved our bacon in the thirties when prices were in the tank and farms going bankrupt, lets kill something and start the process of bankrupting the little guy as the big boys muscle him out and put more people on social security. I don't believe that throwing a farmer in jail for not selling thru the wheat board is ok, he should be fined a percentage of his sales. I believe that eastern farmers not going thru the wheat board while we do is a huge double standard, they should have to go through it too. I'm not mad at the CWB this year, grain is the highest price it's been in 10 years, mind you there is drought everywhere else, they seemed to find me a good price. This is not a good thing to make the CWB a scapegoat in the ag crisis, that is the fault of the government letting big multinational corporations pretty much steal our grain and others milk us dry on our inputs, go after them. If the government wants to help us out, they shouldn't kill the wheat board instead pass a law stating that gives us 10% of retail sale of ag products and food sold in Canada, and pop up a quota system that is fair and very affordable, better to keep the money up here I say then see it go elsewhere. If this doesn't seem fair they have already passed a law that Monsanto gets their royalties on GM Canola, the entertainment industry gets their royalties and fought hard to get theirs. That is a double standard right there on the government of Canada.

Fortunately for me, I get the benefit of living out in the sticks where the chances of terrorism occuring are of hell freezing over and the chances of me starving are about as low too. For Canada to be hit with terrorism would be a mind boggling experience as there are more "targets" elsewhere. I just can't see us being on anyones radar. Youe right though in that a lot of Canadians are ignorant in what's going on in the rest of the world as I myself am guilty of too. I just can't help shaping this thought though, if we would have let the terrorist nations alone in the first place and stayed out of their business would there be terrorism today, it seems to me terrorism is pointed at the states because they stick their nose where apparently it isn't wanted. If there is a disaster, I am confident that I will survive on my own, but i feel for you poor city boys, that would be one hell of a rat race.

I'm not to sure about this, but if your not a Canadian citizen, aren't you at quite a mercy and a lot of stuff doesn't apply to you, I'm probly wrong, but i've heard if we mess around somewhere else, we don't get the same rights as citizens of that country and I'm not sure if that applies here. If it does, on the boat they should go, and I believe our unemployment is too high to support immigration, better using our resources on our citizens that need help instead of allowing immigrants to plug up the system. All I have to do is point out those poor bastards on the reserves, give them opportunities first.

Your first point is alright except for the fact that what about the guy not making enough to benefit from tax breaks? I don't know about you but quite a substancial amount of single moms are in a financial pickle. In the end we're trying to help out the little guy. Your second point makes no sence, for example the ag income crisis is due to a LACK of government policy (i.e. rules) and usually allowing people to do better for themselves usually results in the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, yes lets go back to a medeival rich poor gap. I'll agree 50% is quite steep, but look at it this way, almost a million bucks for a house in Vancouver, 300 plus grand for a house in Calgary, a nice vehicle costing around 50 large, no wonder two people have to work.Energy prices are high due to finite fossil fuels and intense corporate manipulation of the government If your wanting to bring us back to a time when a 1 income household isn't disadvantaged, you gotta get rid of lots of corporations, move to rural areas where its CHEAP to live and live a simpler life. WE as a society WANT too much. I'll agree with you on your last point, to a point where cutting the fat shouldn't mean cutting jobs, better to have people working and contributing to society.

Holy smoke, what's up ingratefulness, and since I see no one arguing my economic points I'll assume I hit the nail on the head. If anyone has any questions on the free market system just read my previous posts and check out NFU website, yah just look at microsoft and the fertilizer sector, if you don't justify paying 80 dollars to get a good supply of dairy nutrients, I don't justify paying 250 bucks for windows xp or 40 + dollars an acre for fertilizer, THAT'S ridiculous. I don't know but now and throughout history we survived and lived without oil and other stuff, but I'd like to see anyone go a month without food. I mean if it ever came down to it, which is more important? Exactly. Nice to see some people are unappreciative and ignorant. We have the best food supply in the world and it's a crying shame to see you guys crap on it and be so disrespectful towards it, I bet a guy in a third world country wouldn't be talking like that. Look at the NFU website and talk to me about efficiency, theres enough links throughout this forum. It'll be a sad day when we run out of oil and have to use biofuel to power us up, and with the way things are going there won't be much for competion, bo won't your food bill go through the roof. I'll say again keeping it small will keep your prices lower in the long run, you should be thankful there's supply management to keep the little guys producing and happy, God help us if there winds up being 3 big guys though, can you say super inflated prices? Case in point fertilizer and any business dominated by less than five companies. You say free market, I say FEUDALISM. What is it with you guys against Canadians making money? The more the money stays HERE, the better it is for our economy, we are at an advantage where we don't really need to import much and can export quite a bit, why not use this, As far as dairy production goes we should be looking out for number one (Canadain producers), and if only a few thousand can fulfill our 30+ million dairy needs, that's efficient enough. Look at stores, before walmart, all the small canadian stores are making money, keeping the money in Canada thus boosting the Canadian economy, Walmart comes in, where does a lot of our money go? SOUTH!! What are our most economical exports, Oil, minerals, and ag products, I don't think we need to be importing ag products thank you very much. I mean from what I've read here, if you are that against agriculture keep your hypocrite ass out of the grocery store, cuz everytime you buy something, you are supporting us (even though the big corporations are screwing us). If push came to shove, I can honestly say I can live without oil, do I like being high tech and having oil, Yes. Can I honestly say I can live with out it, Yes. Do I WANT to live without oil, No. There is another thing wrong with people in this country, we put our wants over our needs. You say you don't want 80 bucks off your income tax to go to the dairy farmers, well by your logic, I don't WANT 90% + of my 80 grand audit to go to the cities, and a lot of country boys don't either, but I'll pay anyways because what if I need something from the government and the government might end up helping us out. You can say that this is a business all you want, but in reality this is one of the greatest services out there, and as we are providing you with such a great service, SHOW US SOME RESPECT!!! Keep em' coming cuz this is quite an interesting and educational debate.

"Carbon credits? You have a carbon "bank". Someone else made the deposit, and your only claim is the interest. How much CO2 will your land/forest eliminate? Probably little or none since dead trees emit the CO2 they contain. You can only claim credit if you are planting new trees. Are you?" I can claim credit with zero till practices, and some CO2 eliminated is better than none. "I see no more reason to pay money to Canadian dairy farmers than to pay money to Canadian computer programmers. Sorry, blueblood, but 30 years ago, Canadians might have supported the family farm. No more. I think families with young children deserve cash - not dairy farmers. $120,000 per family? If I were a dairy farmer, I'd look for a new business." With that statement you just shown that you take the ag industry and food supply for granted and I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry that city boys are so heartless that they can't appreciate where their food comes from and how hard people work to make sure they don't have to do it themselves and can just trot over to the store. The reason to support ag is that you need to eat to live, you don't need a computer program to live. Supporting the many small guys ensures you get a fair price, and not it grossly overinflated by the few big guys. It's win win. We support doctors for 6 figures and they have an important job, why not the guy who makes sure we don't starve, he's on the same level of importance. It would be nice if we could turn off the food spiggot so you could appreciate how easy you got it with us.

Embrace the idea?Well, blueblood, you get points for honesty. You're wrong. Ordinary farmers are the worst environmental offenders because they've been able to sneak under the radar screen, and the farmers know it.But ordinary Canadian farmers are going to caught once urban, progressive voters - the Paul McCartneys of the world - catch on to them. Pork farmers are the worse, but dairy farmers are bad too. Corn and canola deserve critical reports. And I don't want to talk about GMO. I'll say right now that I practice some environmentally sound processes, and a lot of times I pollute in some way or another, that's the game. A lot have been able to get away with it because we live in an area large enough to somewhat absorb the little bits of pollution we create, the big boys like the packers and pork farmers, don't get away with it cuz they are WAY too big. I see where your coming from on this aspect of it, if those urban guys catch on, We'll get so many environmental and safety regulations slapped on us we'll go broke just to be up to code. I'm scared of that day. Why are we unsafe and pollute that little bit, cuz it's honestly cheapest for us, do I want an unsafe and polluted workplace no, can I afford to bring things up to code no. If we get fair prices and are able to afford to do these things then that is another reason to help us out with Royalty laws and supply management.

Blueblood, you keep saying that Canada's dairy farms are efficient. They're not. The only way they can survive is to forbid any imports, and operate in an artificial environment. The simple fact is that New Zealand farms (not big corporations) can produce milk at much lower cost, even shipping it to us, than we can produce it ourselves. If New Zealand could freely send us milk (concentrate or other), our dairy products would be cheaper. Why would New Zealand send us milk? Because we would send them something in return - for example, aluminium, oil or computer programmes. Since they don't send us milk, we don't send them aluminium - and this makes both them and us poorer. Agricultural protection/subsidies just hurt other sectors of our economy, the things we do well. The truly sad fact is that some Canadian dairy farms probably can produce milk better than New Zealand can. But we'll never know which ones as long as we have supply management and quotas on imports. This policy allows the lousy farm.s to hide among the good ones. Blueblood, all your claims about the efficiency of Canada's agriculture make about much sense as running a race where the competitors must put 20 kg weights on their backs. As I say though, Canada's agricultural sector is going to get hit on environmental issues - not the common sense of free trade. Pork farms, for example, are notorious for harming the environment. Well if New Zealand decides to go under supply management system like us, their farmers are probably not going to complain, we still get our milk, they still get theirs, and everyones fat and happy. Your point does make sense though in the fact of importing cars from overseas, they are fuel efficient, cheap, but they are stealing the market share from us, so we make fuel effecient cheap cars to compete, but they've established themself, still stealing market share and a lot of Canadian factory workers are left out in the cold and that's not cool. I would sooner have lots of small Canadian car companies competing and we get pretty low cost cars. I mean our milk is not terribly expensive, I believe it is priced fair, and I believe there is nothing wrong with our system -> Canada benefits. I've already mentioned what would probably happen if we opened it up in my previous posts, not a good idea if you ask me. If New Zealand is exporting milk at rock bottom prices, like we are with grain and canola I'd hate to see the shape of their industry, it would appear it would be in some sort of trouble. If New Zealand wants to export us something, send us the wool, I hear they have a well run wool industry, then we'll hook them up with something. The EU has very high Ag subsidies and their economy seems to be doing pretty well by the looks of it. If New Zealand wants to export milk so bad then export to a country that doesn't have a dairy industry and can send them something back that they DON'T have. I truly believe that keeping things small results in more efficiency, helps out more people, and results in a lower cost to the consumer. How is canadian ag inefficient, the dairy farms are spic and span, high tech, and produce high volumes of milk sounds efficient to me, I can feed 135 people, it's ridiculously efficient, it's more efficient than it's ever been and is getting more efficient (in terms of produce), what makes sense as running a race with 20 kg weights is the fact that we are getting the screws put to us from corporations in the ag business sector. It's been proven that if ALL export subsidies are removed the gate price will only increase by 3% NFU website. I don't see what your problem is with spreading out the wealth and people paying and getting fair prices for their work and milk. Sure there are some lousy farms, but at the end of the day all the milk is tasting the same to me. Your right in the fact that the only way we can survive is to cap imports and operate in an artificial environment, I have no problem with that and in fact embrace that idea. Your also right in that it will be environmental issues taking down some farms. It's the super duper big corporate boys that are the worst environmental polluters and i'd like to see them go down. Me, I got carbon credits, practice zero till, am debating on accepting 100 bucks an acre one time fee to not log the ravine behind my house from an environmental firm, I like those environmental policies, they save me money. To end off I'll ask this question would you rather pay a fair price, support the few thousand Canadian dairy farmers, or under free trade or as I like to call it Feudalism with a mask, eventually pay a ridiculously inflated price, supporting a few non-Canadian firms (i.e. Cargill, Tyson)? (Look at what I pay for fertilizer with only 3 big boys to pick from, jeez)

If only it were that easy, I'd love to form a Co-operative, but try getting a load of people together, to part with their money, lots aren't making any money and can't afford to invest. We're scattered all over and under the thumb. It is almost too late to start up Co-operatives as we'd get smoked. There is one successful one, though Co-op in western Canada, I'm a proud member and get my 110 bucks every year for being a member. It's hard to get other people in the cities to get on board with it though. I personally prefer that we get ROYALTIES and get our fair price for our services that way like recording artists do. I hate to say it's almost too late for us to fight the corporations without government help. I have faced the new millenium, my practices are very very very efficient. The big ag business corporations are too powerful and have me by the throat. I don't look at agriculture as a business, but a job just like a doctor, teacher, and police officer, recording artist and I believe we should be getting paid fair for the extremely important service we provide. The dairy farmer has evolved, he's high tech, safe, efficient, plus he has a system where he gets paid fairly for the service he provides.

BD has got her down. Attitude has to change

"Those dairy farmers as you know work their ass off, I'll say they put a lot more time in than I do on my farm without question. I know many people who work their ass off trying to run a small business. Should they get a subsidy too?" IN my opinion if they are producing something that we NEED, then yes, if it is oh lets say crafts and dirt bikes then no. I will say this though I think that the dairy farmers should get a royalty on their milk sold to ease tax burden, I'll admit im a little foggy on the dairy system, but I do support quotas and supply management. "Those I know this isn't easy to hear but I value ag production business over lets say a golf business, But your beloved dairy farmers would go broke without all the 'golf' businesses generating tax revenue for the gov't." If you would realize how much tax dollars a farmer kicks in and how we spend our money you wouldn't want us farmers go broke. The sales tax from a piece of machinery would cover a low income earners income tax, the sales tax from farm inputs should cover more individuals income tax, no us having money is a good thing. "last time I checked milk isn't a king's ransom or anything. It's not about the price of milk. It is a about politicians taking money from profitable enterprises and using it to buy votes in specific regions. This dairy farmers are certainly not the only pigs at the through but they are the topic of this thread." I am not just defending dairy farmers in Ontario and Quebec, i'm defending the industry as a whole, there are some outfits out here in the prairies too. Ag isn't profitable due to corporations being their greedy selves. "The reason why there is an income crisis is that we're getting pillaged by the food companies and gouged by input companies. Perhaps this is a result of a production industry filled with small, under capitalized players. If we let the agricultural sector modernize like every other sector in our economy then you would see this power imbalance go away." Umm ag is modernized, we are without a shadow of a doubt one of the most efficient industries in the country, our farm and others run at over 100% efficiency in that our crops yielded more than we thought, have you seen some of the brand new machinery out there, if that's not modern i don't know what is. If by modernize you mean 3 corporations getting in there and running our food supply and turning back the clock to feudalism -> plugged up social security system because we are only trained to farm, more expensive food on the shelf, productivity going down (for example state farms in old Soviet Union were out produced per unit by a guy having his own individual plot because the farmer CARES about whats his property over some other guys property), consumers ending have to pay more in the end. No thanks, I'll have the government hopefully implement some programs which are easy on the tax payer and guarantee us a fair price, and you guys access to low cost food. "I other words you agree that the small family farm is uneconomic and that it is necessary to create larger business entities to be competitive." No, we are very economic and VERY efficient, it's hard to make it when we are being manipulated by corporations on the input side of things and corporations on the processing and distribution end. Why can't we all make money, Monsanto does it with us (16 bucks an acre for plant breeder rights on top of buying their seed), and in the recording industry everyone gets their slice, it's very economic due to copyright protection from the government. By the way Monsanto Canola is the most profitable canola for us to grow and pay the bills so we need it. So if the government sticks up for us we can be economic too. "Virtually every industry is regulated in some way. Government regulations don't go away just because larger businesses dominate an industry." Well if you are fine with corporations manipulating the government regulations then that's too bad. Monsanto basically written government regulations regarding genetically modified organisms, just look what happened to poor Percy Schmeiser. If Monsanto can get these cool benefits, why can't we?

Oh and there is no oversupply of foodstuffs, that is a myth. NFU website will put that idea to snuff.

It seems to me that you take our food supply for granted. Those dairy farmers as you know work their ass off, I'll say they put a lot more time in than I do on my farm without question. They have fought very hard for a system that ensures their productivity and well being, why should we take it away from them, I know this isn't easy to hear but I value ag production business over lets say a golf business, I'll say that that dairy farmer contributes a hell of a lot, he's providing us with nourishment along with us, and it's disgusting that people won't take this seriously. I'll say again, in the long haul it's better to ensure that all sorts of the little guys are around, last time I checked milk isn't a king's ransom or anything. With all those little guys around and happy, they'll keep producing (efficiently too mind you) at a reasonable cost. What you are proposing is 100% free market, sure that'll be fine in a little bit, but as what tends to happen time and again it'll work out to a very select few of the super big guys (who tend to pay out shitty wages compared to being an independant owner) who will get a stranglehold, these are the guys who can afford to turn off the "milk spiggot" when they feel they're not making money, when that happens the price of milk on your shelf is going to shoot up like a rocket, some free market system that's what I call FEUDALISM talk about going backwards. If you don't believe me look at fertilizer, there are 3 HUGE companies and they have that price marked up very very high, if there were more companies the price would be lower, some free market system. I'd like to not pay for fertilizer but i have to to put a good crop in the ground and pay the bills, so they got me. If that's what you want to happen to the milk industry then fine. The reason why there is an income crisis is that we're getting pillaged by the food companies and gouged by input companies. To say the food industry is unprofitable is hypocrisy, all the big food companies are at record profits. The dairy industry has a program to protect them and its a shame your too ungrateful to want to support it, I mean I believe that we should get a stable salary to ensure the security and low price of the food supply. I personally don't want the government just to shell out just dollars for us, the input companies will jack up their prices and screw us over in that aspect and the fact we as a country can't afford it. What I'd like done is the government to "flex it's muscles" pass a law saying that we get 10 cents on the dollar for every ag produce sold, that's very very fair, costs to the tax payer are minimal at that, and we get stability, I mean Monsanto gets their royalties, recording artists get their royalties, it's not unreasonable to ask for royalties. The gov't should invest in crown corporations and co-operatives to cover inputs and establish some competition to lower input prices and provide jobs, that's not asking for too much. Put us under supply management so we get a higher gate price in the end. That might end up in higher prices at the store, but that's from a lack of competition at that level, and that's just corporations being greedy, and that's the case just buy Co-op brand food, it's a hell of a lot cheaper. Sure what I propose could make us farmers rich, but I say it's better us getting the money than foreigners as we'll invest it directly in our economy, and that helps everyone in Canada and reinvigorates the rural economy. That is why I believe the free market that you propose is a myth and that there needs to be some regulations like what is happening with the dairy industry which results in more people being well off and not us going back to feudalism and the calamity that's the fertilizer industry and Wal-mart (big yes, but still has to compete - sells for low prices ->once they get complete control of market up go the prices,). I'll say again that our products are not crap and made and produced to the highest of standards and no human rights abuses.

"In 2000, [milk quotas] amounted to an average [subsidy] of $119,903 per farm for each of Canada’s 20,600 dairy farms. Thus, each of 30.75 million Canadians paid directly an average of $80.33 in 2000 so that each member of the average “dairy family” could receive $29,976." Oh my goodness, a farmer is getting paid what he deserves, it's not like he's being lazy, it's not like he's a freeloader, he's probly contributing more to society than most people here. Lets not forget that he's pumping that money back into the economy and paying a lot more tax than the average Canadian. It sucks being audited for 80 large for one tax year. I don't understand why you won't pay what's a fair price. I mean our tax dollars pay for doctors and police officers and teachers, i don't understand what's wrong with farmers making that kind of money, I put an ag producer right on an equal footing with a doctor as far as usefulness. By the way it's not our attitude of entitlement that brought on the ag income crisis it's the lack of government support. I mean us getting 7 cents back on a box of corn flakes is a joke. Why can't they pass a law saying that we get 10 cents on the dollar for every ag produce sold down the chain of production. That is a minimal cost to the tax payer. Heaven forbid a corporation won't make billions of dollars in profit and if food prices get inflated that's the corporations being ass wipes. Why won't the gov't set up crown corporations to undercut the big ag business companies (crop inputs) who ridiculously mark up their product. I'll once again refer people to the nfu website. I applaud the dairy farmers, they got a system that works for them. If their supply management system goes, you'll get what happens in the grain and oilseed sector - a quagmire. Is there a problem that festers in city slickers that family farmers shouldn't make a buck. I mean if we aren't going to get a fair price for our grain and not get export subsidies why export, why not invest in biofuel as a means of supply management. What is the problem with people paying a fair price for products? That's a cheap shot at Canadians saying that our products are crap, our products aren't crap. The free market system only works when there are a lot of SMALL operations competing with each other getting the consumer the lowest price, the free market system when 2 or 3 HUGE CORPORATIONS who don't really compete with each other as there isn't much competition results in ridiculously high prices as thats what the precious free market system has turned into now and saying a free market exists with 2 or 3 multinational corporations is hypocrisy. There is nothing wrong with the dairy sector and nothing wrong with those hardworking dairy farmers get a fair wage for doing an important job. I mean when you go to the store you are supporting these people and it's hypocrisy to go into a store buy milk and trash dairy farmers for getting the price they deserve for providing you with easy access to a nutritious foodstuff. It appears to me that people are taking their food supply for granted, it's a crying shame that we are being looked down upon for that. Personally I don't think a computer is cheap, my truck wasn't cheap, I bought the "best" brand for them and didn't complain about the price. Good grief if your complaining about paying for a dairy farmer, then start complaining about paying for a teacher, a doctor, a policeman, and other jobs the gov't pays for, as they ALL are of equal standing.

So I guess you are against a farmer making a buck, and would rather see our money spent on foreign owned companies than Canadian producers who will in fact recirculate their earnings and spend it in Canada, nothing wrong with that. I have no problem paying for milk, I believe it is a fair price, and being that you know dairy producers, you know how hard they work, and I have no problem paying a little extra to support them. You also probly know that Canada has some of the most efficient farmers and safest food in the world. Also I'd ask you to check out this site www.nfu.ca. on the myths of subsidies and on what happens when the free market comes in, takes over, not pretty. What would you rather have 3 giant american corporations with a stranglehold on the dairy supply? You think you pay lots for milk now, just wait till that happens, you'll wish that we had our old dairy industry. There is nothing wrong with a producer getting his fair price and nothing wrong with the government backing him up, I wish the grain and oilseed sector had this kind of support. I also find it insulting that there are those who believe they are entitled to cheap food. I'm sorry we are very hard workers supplying you with the convenience of shopping in a store, if you think that food is expensive, grow a garden, buy a deer tag, buy a fishing liscence, or buy a cow to milk. A brand new diesel truck costs over 50 large now, I'll pay it as I know its helping out a Canadian factory worker make a decent living. I'd sooner fork out more for a domestic than an import where a person not only supports poorer workplace conditions, but contributes to a Canadian losing his job. I don't think it's subsidies ruining the auto industry by the way, it's a general loss of market share, I'm seeing a lot of toyotas, honda's, mitsubishis on the road and less and less domestics. I mean a doctor gets a nice chunk of change to heal people, whats wrong with the producer getting a nice chunk of change to feed people, both are equally important in my book. I invite you to check out the www.nfu.ca website to catch up on the ag income crisis, it's well researched and very informative. That fraser institute article is pretty offensive.

This is an ag issue so im gonna bite and bite hard. I cannot see how anyone could be in favor of an attempt to put our dairy farmers out of business, and whats worse they are foreigners, I say support us for the things we need and if we absolutely can't produce ourselves than import. For those complaining about high milk prices, go after the grocery stores and processers for artificially exaggerating the price to line their CEO's pockets, don't pick on the little guy from Quebec trying to make a living. Harper should cave in, he should stand up for our little guys. It's bad enough that grain and oilseeds are down the tubes due to bad government policy. Would anyone not in favor of supporting it be the ones buying cars made in Japan who is actively taking market share away from cars made in Canada in effect GM, Ford, Chrysler losing all sorts of money and having to cut jobs? I'm sorry the Prime Minister of Canada has a moral obligation to stick up for his countrymen above all else even if it means comprimising some sap from where ever trying to usurp the dairy industry. Where is our Prime Minister to defend the grain and oilseed guys from the big multinationals who steal our produce and screw us and the customer over making a killing?

If someone is addicted to crack, isn't it better that they get their fix from a safe supply, and are able to use in a safe environment where treatment and education is readily available? Because we're not talking about free crack for the kids but an approach that treats drugs and addiction as a medical matter, not a criminal one. A point that many miss. There have been times my roomate will scrounge around the house for a few coins so he can go buy a pack of smokes. He runs around like a crack addict if he does not get his fix. How other drugs are worse than this, I cannot imagine. Medical treatment for an addiction. Blueblood You are forgetting how your product gets to my table after you sold all your goods to the market. People take it, process it, make it into things. And you have people overlooking every aspect of the process from you planting the seed to me buying bread in the local store. If everyone did nothing but back breaking work, then nothing would get accomplished. You still need people with brains and GOOD ones to keep the system working as it is. You SHOULD garner some respect for a CEO and other eggheads, otherwise your goods may never get to my table. There is alot more to the scope than just the farmer. If no one else was there Blueblood, not only would you have the physical load to bear, but also the mental one. You can farm all freaking day if you like, but if there is no means for you to move/sell your goods, you are stuck with doing everything yourself. Your work load is twice as large now. We can also get into the aspect of your equipment and how it is fuels. Most of the equipment you have is made by machines and people with smarty brains are controlling the computers to make your tractors, your combines your everything. We can take this all away and go back to where we were before the steam tractor, since physical work is where you throw your respect. BUT I highly doubt you would want to go back to those days. Bluueblood, it takes all kinds for this planet to work in the way that it is. You have your part, we have ours. DON'T forget that Now back to the topic. If you do not like what you see on TV then just turn the damn thing off!! I live in Ottawa and I do not listen to radio, I do not watch TV, but I am online with the Internet alot. If you do not like things shoved in your face, you can just turn the TV off, I used that option and it works for me. No more mind numbing stupid TV. (I was at my parents over the weekend for easter and I spent more time on the PC than at the TV, I flipped through for 20 minutes did not find SQUAT that was interesting. Moderation like everything else Blueblood. No respect for anyone driving under the influence of anything (even fatigue will cause accidents). Rednecks are not cool either. I do not thing cigaretts are cool, but it is not my choice if they smoke. It is theirs. It is all about choices and your ability to have self control in the end. GostHacked We can argue about my opinion till hell freezes over, it's my belief and my problem. About the TV, it's nice to see you acknowledge that MSM forcefeeds us culture, and yes I completely agree with you with the fact that to not to put up with it don't turn it on, me being a country boy and seeing how I look at things it's safe to say that I turn off the tv quite a bit. I'm not worried about myself, I've made my bed on the drug matter, and you have too. I'm worried about the kid that doesn't know to turn the tv off, the kid who wants to fit in, be cool, who might not know their limits, has poor self control etc. With an observation I made about society, it appears they have to turn to drug use to fit in and therein lies the problem. I mean what looks more appealing to a kid a rap video promoting drug use and parties where drugs are going on or a cheesy public service announcement and youth group at the church where they drink juice and bible thump? Had I grew up where drugs were viewed as cool and encourged I'd probly go on it, but since I didn't I don't do them. If people want to do them fine, but don't push it on us, as far as i'm concerned they have as much right to push drug use as church groups have a right to push non-drug use, in my opinion they can both go fly a kite. i hope it doesn't look like im pushing anti-drugs on anyone, that's not my intent, all im saying is my opinion on why there is a drug problem and a possible solution ->societies attitude changing. Would I like to see the drug problem solved, yes. Would I go around at a party preaching that drugs are bad, hell no. In my opinion again if drug use was not cool and not pushed on people there wouldn't be this so called problem. If society did change and If people still do drugs regardless if it's cool or not, then that is a decision they made and should be respected and they should be left alone. I don't know if I explained myself clearly enough and might sound like hypocrisy and I apologize for any grey areas. In a nutshell I would like society to view drugs as not cool and there are better things to do, NOT drugs are the devil if you do them you go to hell and are an evil person if you do do them, but then i'd also like royalties on any sale of ag produce (hooch, groceries, biofuel, ingredients for food, packers, processing) but that ain't gonna happen. Once again in my opinion society is to blame, simply legalising won't solve it, nor will harsher penalties for deterrents. But you did sidestep my last question though, I didn't get a yes or no answer.

You're angry because they didn't immediately open up the vaults and throw gold at you? The government listened respectfully, promised more money, promised action, pointed out that this was a national problem which needed input from the provinces. You think you'll do better under the Liberals? Just who do you think is going to instantly promise the world to farmers within a week of their protest, when they've barely been sworn into office and have a shaky minority? No studying, no planning, no assesments, no talking with the provinces - right - sure - that's how government works all right. I don't want gold thrown at me at the expense of the taxpayer, I would become what I hate a freeloader. Throwing just a small percentage of money that is needed won't solve the problem, just look at the nfu.ca website for what WILL solve it, this new government is doing the SAME thing as the liberals and I am scared that with their similar ag policies we're gonna go under. We don't want the world, we want a fair price, the government can give us that without cost to taxpayers, Monsanto and recording artists get their royalties, where's ours? 750 million dollars spread out over 240 thousand farms won't even buy fuel for spring. I'm afraid this government won't stand up to the giant food corporations and fat cats who are pillaging us and I feel that I have wasted my vote.

"Nobody I know over 25 think drugs are cool. And I think the kids under 25 are a lot more conservative than when I was growing up in the 70s. As for hard drugs, one look at "Faces of Meth" on the Internet would probably make most kids reconsider drugs' "coolness." I think the only reason weed is considered "cool" is the outlaw image attached to it by it criminalization. It wasn't even on the radar of popular culture before it was criminalized and, if it were legal, it would probably have a hipness cachet somewhere between glue and Ativan." Bubbermiley, I'd have to disagree with you on your first point, I do believe that in our society that drug use is glorified, which in my opinion sucks, and your points are valid. I do agree with you to a point on you second point and i figure that if weed were never illegal in the first place "it would probably have a hipness cachet somewhere between glue and Ativan." but to make it legal again after it's been illegal and would still be illegal in other places might generate a societal problem similar to alcohol (see prev. posts) (mind you I like my booze, but I do see the societal disadvantages with it). Booze is legal, society loves it. Smokes are legal, social attitudes are negative towards it. Once again pop culture and attitudes have to change to combat the drug problem.

well GostHacked, I appreciate your respect for the agricultural sector, and kudos to you for sticking up for urban workplace, I still however stand by my opinion and belief of it and that's as far as I want to take it, and as I said it's my cross to bear, I just don't see how a CEO garners as much respect as a guy who works with his back in terms of physical aspect of work, sure the stress levels are similar, but I don't justify paying him forkloads of money, again my cross to bear, that's how I see things and that's how you and others see things. But to say that the mainstream media and society is not pushing culture on us out in the sticks is not true, all a person has to do is turn on the tv, radio, watch a movie and wham there it is drug culture i got no choice but to put up with it and from the looks of things it looks pretty "cool" and at the expense of not being "cool" we get our problem hence people will like it and embrace it. from a country boys perspective Before we were forcefed this "culture" we did things differently, and to some degree still do, for a good part drug use is still looked down upon in the stix the same way you guys look at rednecks, driving drunk, and smoking cigarettes. Now since drug use is "cool" we got drugs coming into the rural areas which is in my view a crying shame. What I'm getting at is that since it was so looked down upon in my environment, it keeps a good proportion of people clean including myself, and in my view is more effective a drug deterrent than jail time, gov't programs etc. I believe that we shouldn't change the laws, leave them where they are as since pot from what i hear is fairly harmless, let that be the big drug of choice like booze was when prohibition was going on, i mean you legalize it what next, pretty scary huh? I don't know a cop that will bust a kid for smoking a joint, it's a waste of time like you said, i'm saying if it's still illegal let the cops chase their tails around trying to catch dealers. I'm also saying that if society says oh drugs arent cool no more the dealers probly won't have business. Legalising won't have an effect on my daily life, it might for someone else though. as for farmers importing the problem to the cities that is fallicy, i mean you guys give us a market and since our prices are in the shitter caused by big city food companies and the government (mostly city folk) not giving us a fair price or royalties for our products like Monsanto gets theirs and recording artists get theirs. If we did get those, we wouldn't need to grow drugs, and I'll say again if society and culture changed there would be no market for drugs and no grow ops, it's up to everyone to change. I mean our society is a joke now, I'm more scared to drive drunk than a drug dealer selling drugs, in my eyes I'm scared of the consequenses, is the drug dealer I don't think so, he doesn't care if he goes to jail. I'll ask this question to end off though, if drug use were about as cool/respected as rednecks, driving drunk, or smoking cigarettes would you or anyone start?

well my views on this are complex, but I figure that legalising won't fix this problem as piles and piles of people drink and harsh penalties won't fix it as piles and piles of people do drugs, this is societies problem and as a society we should fix it. I believe in society drinking and drug use are the accepted norm (unfortunately), but smoking from what i understand isn't as acceptable and rates are going down. I drink as it's acceptable, I don't do drugs as in my "environment" it's not acceptable as we view drugs as most people nowadays view cigarrettes and stereotype drug users as lazy and not good enough, it's wrong to think like that, but was effective in deterring me and most of my friends from drug use. I don't believe that we should change the laws as with prohibition booze was the drug of choice, now pot is the drug of choice -> if that's legal what's next, scary. Also I hate to say this that with this "war on drugs" it is giving the cops some job security which provides employment. I also know that a lot of cops wouldn't waste their time writing up someone with possession as they have better things to do and write reports on. I believe that we should quit throwing money at it except paying for cop salaries on their "wild goose chases" which i have no problem employing police officers, we as a society should say as with smoking that it's bad it's not socially acceptable anymore, do that with drugs and over time bye bye drug problem. Sure your going to have outliers that don't care (example of an outlier -> we apparently are so short of employment we need foreigners but have those poor people on the reserves living in squalor come on) Now here's where i get in shit, it's a shame that this is correlating with rural depopulation. Everyone is moving to the cities where in my opinion they don't do any "real work" (sorry my idea of real work is physical work my cross to bear and you can probly tell im a farmer) get bored cuz they're not working hard or can't find work and turn to drug use, now that its glorified in your guys culture and us country boys are forced to swallow your culture of what's cool and what's not, we now have a drug problem on top of the other problems you guys give us. I believe that if people moved back to the rural areas a lot of problems would be solved.

Also something like this helps boost the economy too, those plants need workers to process and distribute the biofuel, how can anyone not like that part of it >less freeloaders, but alas this will not put a dent in the ag income crisis as this demand would only boost prices by a few cents, also it will pay off in energy dividends as once the biofuel is in circulation it will pay for itself as you will be using biofuel to grow fuel over time and cutting off our dependance on fossil fuels, the fossil fuel industry won't hurt as you can export fossil fuels, there's a potential for a lot of dough to be made off of this, too bad with current government policy the farmer will get the short end of the stick again, personally i think part of a solutions will be royalties of 10 cents on the dollar straight to the farmer off of every sale of ag products in the chain and the gov't setting up crown corporations to undercut the huge agribusiness corporations, gov't implementing supply management systems for wheat and oilseeds, and if a person has a problem with their food prices rising, buy Co-op brand food and if that's too much go grow a garden or buy a deer tag and a fishing liscence, look if you don't support agriculture and run us into the ground stay the hell out of the grocery store, cuz thats one hell of a convenience to be able to go to a store and buy food off of our backs