westcoast99

You're exactly right, and interesting you say this as I am reading 1984 right now. Scary.

Just like Tory draft. Neat.

This party will not be extreme in anyway. Now, what I think we need to top all of this off is a new leader who has the support in both parties to fully unite them.

Glad to have you back Moderate. Havn't heard anything from you in a while, and I traditionally agree with what you say. This party will not be extreme in anyway. Now, what I think we need to top all of this off is a new leader who has the support in both parties to fully unite them. Perhaps Mike Harris, maybe Bernard Lord. We'll see.

Internet polls are not at all reliable and very easy to skew.

Good idea, spread the word.

I am confident that this will pass the PC membership.

As we all know by now, the Canadian political Right has been united. It's now up to the membership of the Alliance and Tories to decide whether this will happen or not. Everyone's thoughts?

And I suspect that we'll get it. Check this out: Alliance, Tories 'closer than ever' Alliance, Tories 'closer than ever' to merger CTV.ca News Staff CTV News has learned the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservatives appear to be closer than ever to merging after weeks of off-again, on-again negotiations between party emissaries. CTV's Rosemary Thompson reports negotiations are underway, with the possibility an announcement could be made some time this week. "Sources from both sides are saying that they are closer to a deal than they've ever been before -- the most optimistic are saying that a deal could be reached as early as tomorrow afternoon, those that are more pessimistic are talking about the end of the week," Thompson said. She reports the seriousness of the negotiations is reflected in the fact that lawyers have been brought in to look at an agreement. Still, Thompson said negotiations could hit a snag. "The toughest step is that the deal has to be accepted by the caucuses of both parties. The Tory caucus is very badly divided and Tory Leader Peter MacKay has vowed that he won't go ahead unless he has their support," Thompson said. The courtship between the two has been rocky. A leaked memo released over the weekend indicated that Canadian Alliance leader Stephen Harper felt the Tories were unwilling to compromise enough to allow a merger to happen. MacKay told Nova Scotia's CKEC radio that he was disheartened by Harper's memo, which was leaked to The Globe and Mail. He said the tone was accusatory and he denied his party was throwing up roadblocks. "It's not in the spirit of co-operation. I find that disheartening. I find that unproductive. It's a setback yet again," MacKay said. Representatives from both parties have been trying to forge a deal to unite the right-wing parties since July in an effort to take on the Liberals. Last week, MacKay said that his talks with Harper didn't solve the issue of how to merge the two parties. He said the parties remained divided in an interview with CTV's Mike Duffy. "We are close in some regards and there is still a very basic, philosophic gap as to how we would bring this together," MacKay said. The Tories favour choosing a leader using a system that would give absolute equality to every riding association in the country. The Alliance wants the leader chosen in a direct vote by every registered party member. "We are suggesting it has to be equal weighted. There has to be a recognition that every riding in the country, like our electoral system, has to be represented, whether it is a leadership contest or setting up of a constitution of the new party," MacKay said. He said the Alliance representatives are "quite married" to their one-member, one-vote process. He said that gives more power to the bigger provinces. "It has to be fair and equitable or we go it alone... we are going into the Thanksgiving weekend and it is time that the current turkey was cooked." At the time, Harper told reporters that "we agreed that we would continue that conversation in a day or two." Neither leader would speak to reporters on Tuesday night.

Nationally: Liberal: 46% PC: 19% NDP: 15% CA: 13% BQ: 6% West: Liberal: 35% CA: 25% NDP: 20% PC: 18% Ontario: Liberal: 51% PC: 21% NDP: 15% CA: 10% Québec: Liberal: 51% BQ: 25% PC: 9% NDP: 5% CA: 4% Atlantic: Liberal: 46% PC: 39% NDP: 20% CA: 4% Among Men: Liberal: 47% PC: 19% CA: 14% NDP: 13% BQ: 7% Among Women: Liberal: 45% PC: 19% NDP: 16% CA: 13% BQ: 6% Just stressing the need for a merger. Source: SES September 2003 Poll

Onus now on PC leader, says Stephen Harper Sean Gordon CanWest News Service Saturday, October 11, 2003 OTTAWA - Stephen Harper, the leader of the Canadian Alliance, says he is willing to accept Tory demands for selecting the leader of a newly merged party if that is what it takes to break the stalemate in the talks to unite the right. According to an internal memo circulated to the Alliance caucus, Mr. Harper is willing to capitulate on leadership selection and subscribe to the Tories' wish that a leader be selected at a delegated convention where all ridings have an equal voice. But, in the same breath, the Alliance leader sounded a pessimistic note on the future of the negotiations, and put the onus squarely on Peter MacKay, the Tory leader. "The lack of any spirit of compromise in my discussions with Peter indicates to me that a deal may be farther [away] than it appears on paper. Certainly, there are signs that, even if we were to paper over this particular disagreement, another could appear the moment we tried to implement anything," read the memo. However, Mr. MacKay said earlier yesterday there is still hope of reaching a deal. He also disputed the Alliance contention that he is being obstinate, likening the principle of riding equality to an "iron rod" because "it's not flexible; it is breakable." "It's not just about the leadership selection, it's about building the party," he said. "We have been willing to find accommodation and to look for some element of give and take. And that's fair. But how can you move away from something as fundamental as equality? That's really what I struggle with. It's equal or it isn't." According to the Alliance memo, the concessions on leadership would have to be accompanied by Tory acceptance of the Alliance method of using weighted ridings and double majorities at the new Conservative Party of Canada's founding convention. Each new policy and each article of the constitution would thus have to win support from a majority of delegates and also a majority of ridings. Mr. MacKay pointed out that his party has compromised on its demands for riding equality by proposing a system under which each riding with at least 100 members would be given 100 points to elect a new leader -- a system the Tories used to select Joe Clark leader in 1998. Mr. Harper countered earlier this week with a proposal to increase the points total to 500 per riding, specifying that actual votes, not memberships, would be used to accumulate points. But that system, Mr. MacKay said, would not be fair and would undermine the overall concept of equality. "There can't be 'A' level ridings versus 'B' level ridings. That would leave an impression, I think, that would be un-Canadian... It would kill us with minority groups," he said. Despite their apparent differences, Mr. MacKay said the two leaders, who chatted briefly by phone at midday yesterday, will speak again after the long weekend. Mr. Harper was scheduled to spend the Thanksgiving holiday with his family in Calgary, while Mr. MacKay will be in his riding in Nova Scotia. "I think it's important that both of us reflect on this.... Sometimes, when it gets to a critical juncture, it is important to step back and gain some perspective. There'll be an ongoing dialogue, I guess," he said. © Copyright 2003 National Post

If we do not merge now, we'll be revisiting this after the next election only with an increased Liberal majority.

We need to do whatever it takes to create 1 party.

Unless we see a merger, Springer, the result will continually be the same. Liberal majority government, Alliance opposition.

I do, considering polls have them at 16% there.

Speaking with CTV's Mike Duffy on Thursday, Peter MacKay made it very clear that the decision to merge is up to Harper, but the PC's want riding equality or "We're going it alone." said MacKay.

You're right, they could chip away at some BQ seats.

I doubt Tory MPs will cross the floor. I don't think creating another party without the PC's will do anything either. That's what the Canadian Alliance is.

If they merge, they could realistically take 30-50 Liberal seats in Ontario. The PCs are doing well in Ontario now, who knows if they will hold iup.

Joe Clark brought honesty, trust, and credibility to the PC Party.

There is a reason why he has continued these discussions for weeks now. He does want a merger. But not one that will compromise on key issues in the PC constitution. MacKay wants to be a bridge builder. The challenge he faces is that he must satisfy those who are deadset against a merger (for example, his good friend André Bachand) and at the same time those who do want a merger. (Bill Casey, Loyola Hearn, Rex Barnes.)

Both CBC and CTV reported they met last night, and Mr. MacKay confirmed it.

Peter MacKay and Stephen Harper met on Wednesday night in Toronto, and want to meet with eachother again. MacKay and Harper to meet at least once more CTV.ca News Staff The leaders of the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservatives held direct merger talks late Wednesday night at a Toronto hotel, and have agreed to talk again in a day or two. After weeks of off-again, on-again negotiations between party emissaries, Alliance Leader Stephen Harper and Tory Leader Peter MacKay met Wednesday night a Toronto hotel in the first face-to-face talks. The two shared an afternoon flight from Ottawa to Toronto. However, that's not when they spoke. That came later when they met at a hotel by the Toronto airport. A report in The Globe and Mail suggests they met for about two hours. "Peter and I did have a conversation and we agreed that we would continue that conversation in a day or two," Harper told The Globe. Harper was on his way to Winnipeg for Israel Asper's funeral Thursday, and MacKay attended a fundraising event in Toronto earlier in the evening. Before heading to the fundraiser, MacKay told The Globe an agreement between the two was possible. "We're close," he said. "I do feel obliged to at least speak to Mr. Harper." That's in contrast to comments made by Loyola Hearn, the Tory House leader and a member of the negotiating team. "It's a philosophical difference at this stage." The philosophical issue holding up an agreement for a new, merged right-of-centre party is how to choose a leader. A day-long meeting with Alliance and Tory representatives reached an impasse on Tuesday over just that issue. Both parties agreed it is now time for Harper and MacKay to speak directly. "At the end of the day, the whole issue is leadership selection," Alliance spokesman Jim Armour told The Canadian Press. The Tories favour choosing a leader using a system that would give absolute equality to every riding association in the country. The Alliance wants the leader chosen in a direct vote by every registered party member. When it's boiled down, the problem pits traditional Tory brokerage politics against the Alliance's founding principle of grassroots populism. Despite some challenges, Harper told reporters in Ottawa on Wednesday the differences are minor. "We have a very small gap on paper in terms of what we haven't agreed on." MacKay is also still holding out hope that Canada's political right will unite. "I do believe there has been a great deal of progress that has got us to this point and I'm not prepared to unilaterally slam any doors." With reports from The Canadian Press

If they unite now, they can and will win over 100 seats and possibly take government.

What do you mean, Mr. Chater? Seems to be doing better than ever. The problem is conflicting news reports. Take a look at this one from CTV: MacKay and Harper hold direct talks on merger CTV.ca News Staff Efforts to reinvigorate merger talks between the Canadian Alliance and Progressive Conservatives have been stumbling recently. But CTV News has learned the two party leaders met late Wednesday night at a Toronto hotel. It's the first face-to-face meeting between the two leaders, after weeks of negotiations between party emissaries. Earlier in the day, Conservative Leader Peter MacKay was still holding out hope that Canada's political right will unite. "I do believe there has been a great deal of progress that has got us to this point and I'm not prepared to unilaterally slam any doors." Although reports have suggested the two parties are divided by basic "philosophical differences," both MacKay and Harper denied that negotiations have reached an impasse. Alliance Leader Stephen Harper said the differences are minor. "We have a very small gap on paper in terms of what we haven't agreed on," Harper told reporters in Ottawa. Later in the day, both leaders flew from Ottawa to Toronto on the same plane. Harper was on his way to Winnipeg for Israel Asper's funeral Thursday, and MacKay attended a fundraising event in Toronto earlier in the evening. Later, they met at a hotel by the Toronto airport. The issue of choosing a leader for a new, merged right-of-centre party is still unsolved, despite weeks of talks. The Tories favour choosing a leader using a system that would give absolute equality to every riding association in the country. The Alliance wants the leader chosen in a direct vote by every registered party member. When it's boiled down, the problem pits traditional Tory brokerage politics against the Alliance's founding principle of grassroots populism.