betsy

That's something to think about. Repeat offenders perhaps? Depending on the type of crime? In addition to incarceration.

Btw, the gesture was apparently done in response to the mocking gestures of the Liberals (directed towards the Conservatives), for waving around a box of chocolates referring to forest gump. I don't get the implication with forest gump but I did hear one Liberal MP tell a Conservative minister the day before the Conservative response, "life is a box of chocolates"...or something like that. Like children, the Liberals cried "foul" and tattle-taled.

Security Certificates had been around since the late 70's, and had been used very rarely. Liberal Anne Mclellan said she knows only of 6 cases where -in the certificates were used, and they were special cases. It is used only for non-citizens of Canada. It's been explained that at anytime, the "detainee" is free to abandon his appeal and leave Canada.

Yes. I guess my statement is misleading....I meant the poll as a general question (not only pertaining to the Guantanamo detainees). Anyway, the question still stands: How far are we prepared to go with protecting known terrorists/criminals? The issue on the Chinese smuggler (who is said to be #1 on China's wanted list) was also in mind.

let's say, by intelligence or CSIS. Or through the normal process of screening applicants!

Apparently, Nato is trying to get Canada to accept some detainees being released from Guantanamo, saying these individuals may face tortures or deaths if brought back to their countries. Although we do not wish any inhuman treatments of anyone....it can't be denied that other countries have their own laws, and methods in dealing with their own law-breakers. That we do not believe in the death penalty does not give us any right to feel self-righteous about it...especially when we know that the criminal we are harboring is truly guilty indeed. Canada is now known as a "softie"....that all one has to do is mention the word "torture" or death penalties...and surely you'll be granted passage. As one Liberal prided herself by saying we are a "sanctuary." So we attract them like magnet. But how far are we prepared to go in ensuring everyone's well-being?

I honestly think that the immigration policy must be over-hauled to be able to handle the new kind of problems. And the first step is to temporarily FREEZE the borders so we can effectively do an "inventory", take stock and properly process those who are already in-line. The experts can come up with an alternative plan in the meantime...and make all the necessary preparations for the new guidelines.

I think it is a mistake to say the Christians are behind the CPC - only certain sects of Christianity support the CPC. Catholics, for the most part, support the Liberals. United Church members often support then NDP. I would expect you will see the same variation in among Muslims. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of immigrants are Liberal supporters. It is not only that they view the Liberals as having a lax immigration agenda. But more so, they perceive the Conservatives as anti-immigrants and racists. That was how the Conservative Party was described to me by a well-meaning immigrant from another ethnic group trying to educate me when I had just arrived in this country. On the other hand, the Liberal Party was endorsed as a "friend of the immigrants."

Mike Duffy couldn't get enough of this new controversy. He's calling this the "turning point" for the Conservatives...where for the first time, they are on the defensive. He and the other parties' reps had a heyday being "outraged" and indignant. I have not seen the gestures, so I could not really say how "bad" it was. As a citizen I am appalled for such childish behaviours, if true. Harper was not present today when the sparks really flew...I don't know if he was present when the incident actually happened. BUT for the media and the Liberals to feel this way...it's so hypocritical. These media had immortalized and just loved the "cutesy" childish prank done by Trudeau in his famous mocking pirouette behind the queen....which I had found in poor taste and unbecoming of any ordinary dignified man, never mind a Prime Minister of all people. Maybe these poor Conservative MPs, most notably Poillievre's (behind-the-curtain act) were just trying to borrow a page from the old man....thinking they'll gain the same reaction. Anyway, Harper ought to do something about any stupid acts from any aspiring comics in his party. Imitating the Liberals is the very last thing anyone should do! "Harper urged to apologize for MPs' rude gestures Updated Wed. Jun. 14 2006 5:36 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff Opposition MPs are calling on Prime Minister Stephen Harper to apologize after at least three Conservative MPs made crude arm gestures across the floor of the House of Commons. Oshawa MP Colin Carrie; Jacques Gourde, parliamentary secretary to Agriculture Minister Chuck Strahl; and Pierre Poilievre, parliamentary secretary to Treasury Board President John Baird, acted out the crude motion as MPs voted on a farm bill Tuesday evening -- with the latter two members caught making the gestures on the House of Commons camera. Several MPs also alleged that they saw Poilievre standing behind the curtains in the House of Commons mocking Speaker Peter Milliken." http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Some Muslim-Canadian women are concerned and fear this Sharia law coming to Canada. It is easy enough to say that mediation is only done IF ALL parties consented....but can we honestly believe that? I would easily assume that anyone who welcomes this Sharia law is of the old-country mentality or bordering on, if not outright fundamentalist. Do you think women belonging to such households have any say in the matter? Sure they'll try to propose this Sharia law in a nicely presented package. It'll be idiotic if they spell it out bluntly in black and white. Eventually, it will just be another can of worms that we will be burdened with!

Do children need discipline to correct poor behaviour? I'd say, yes. Definitely. Even adults have to have discipline. Self-discipline, that is. But what kind of discipline? That depends.

Are you joking? Root of the problem? What do our immigration policies have to do with riots and demonstrations in front of Danish Embassies because of cartoons?Betsy, if you don't like Canada's immigration policies, then fine. It is your right to disagree. But don't pretend that changing Canada's immigration policy will solve the problem of fanatical Muslim terrorism. That's like me saying that I think the federal Liberals are crooks and if we arrest them all, that will solve the problem of global warming. I was referring to the problem here in Canada. That was what was explained by an immigration guy regarding the hardly existing "screening process" (don't know his name), on either Question Period or MDuffy. The Danish have their own problems....have no idea about their immigration policies though.

The root of the problem lies in the breakdown of our immigration policy. I say "breakdown"....for as I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), the Chinese and the Japanese (aside from European ethnics), are among the oldest ethnic immigrants, and yet we've never seen the kind of head-aches we face now....proof that opening our doors to immigrants is not bad....for it does not necessarily have to lead to MAJOR problems. It is the obligation to fulfill reaching quotas and refugees...and not having planned and prepared to the manpower and screening process needed....which attributed why we have criminals, whose crimes ranged from genocide attrocities, human rights violations, smugglers, drug traffickers, etc.., THAT is the problem. And it's been acknowledged by and expert or immigration official on a talkshow that there hardly was any screening done when the floodgates opened and immigrants/refugees piled right in. The backlog is astounding from that one....and still building up, because more are coming. I watched a small segment of the Immigration Standing Comittee where-in a Liberal who was questioning Solberg referred to "meeting the quotas demanded by the UN." I was surprised by that...or maybe I've misunderstood. So, it is the UN who dictates the quotas for the numbers of immigrants we have to receive? Then, there is also the question of encouraging segregation among various ethnic groups, instead of encouraging assimilation and integration. We're like a nation comprised of various tribes, each practicing their own culture and tribal practices (focused inward instead of outward). We've got Chinatown, Doomstown, Latino, Little Italy, Somalia, Jews, etc..,.....which could translate into "turfs." And we wonder why there are gang and turf wars between Asians and Latinos, between Blacks and whatever...

An anti-Muslim thread and betsy is never far away! Betsy, all I can say is get extra locks, buy a gun, and start a petition to get all Muslims kicked out of your neighbourhood. Or have you done all that already? I am trying my best to just ignore your insulting personal slurs towards me, and there had been quite a number of them in various threads. Although it never had been my way to resort to "reporting"....in your case, I might make an exception. I have opinions of my own that I would want to freely express without having to be concerned about you labelling me as a bigot or a hater-of-whatever-it-is-we're-discussing-at-the-moment, every time I express something that does not meet your approval. You are in a public forum and opinions should not be stumped from being voiced out, otherwise what kind of a board will this be? So you don't agree with my opinion...then don't resort to start trashing me personally if you cannot come up with any sensible point to rebutt. If you can't stomach me, then do us both a favor and skip my posts. I will do the same with yours. You are duly warned.

Yes, just hope it is another group that is not tyrannical in its idealogy or culture. What are the chances in this gamble, I wonder? Actually, given the way our children are learning the various virtues being doctrined by the Liberal way of thinking, I think if we continue doing this great job, the future generation need not worry. If bending backwards til one lies flatly on the mat is quite preferable, and there's no opposition at all, nor the will to uphold....then there's no struggle. Problem solved.

The slaves had adapted to their new country and though the process was wrought with struggles and pain, finally was able to integrate and assimilate into society. The blacks had strongly wanted to mix and integrate with society and to be part of what the country truly stands for. They embraced the values, including the religion of their new country. I am not saying immigration is wrong....nor am I saying that immigration be stopped. But borrowing Liberal Anne McLellan's favorite word these days, we've got to have some "balance."

France is starting to face the reality of a changing demographic with a certain etynic population increasing. I've read an editorial somewhere during the time of the nightly violent riots that they've had last year briefly explained about it. I cannot remember though what ethnic population it is. Anyway, it is not my intention to find a solution for France. Their problem may affect us....but not directly. We had been and are still constantlyaffected somehow of other countries that have problems and the effects vary from commodity prices going up the roof, stock market, mass exodus of immigrants and refugees) etc.,

By your logic, we should do away with quotas. That there should never be any ceiling at all. Talking about the reality of a burgeoning Muslim population, that could very possibly see you become an ethnic minority in Canada, thus could very well find yourself having a government wholly run by members of the dominant population. I'm confused with what you mean that "it's also impractical and unenforceable. And it won't solve any problem." Please expand on that.

...or, "DENIAL!"

France is facing this problem. Argus has a valid point. Just think about it. We let in thousands as immigrants, plus refugees on top of that....and they multiply at a fast rate. Thirty to fifty years from now, it is not far-fetched to imagine a government run by them. And to think that some already are trying to push for Sharia law even at this early stage. Of course right now, apathy and complacency pervades, so by the time reality sets in....it would most probably be too late to do anything about it. By that time, I'm probably quite close to the grave or dead anyway. It's you, younger generation...and your children...who will have to live and deal with it. The pain of experiencing and knowing the freedom that you've once enjoyed....and lost.

You're right there, August, I must say. I do know and believe that a lot of Muslims are innocents and have nothing at all to do with terrorism. It's just sad that they are being used by those who hides among them...and of course, it breeds suspicion and paranoia. This is like Vietnam in a way...when they did not know who their enemies were. Rubbing elbows during the day, only to get blown up at night by the very guy you thought was a friend/co-worker/etc. Soldiers were easily spooked. Although I agree with you to a certain extent, qc1675....except for this statement: "However I disagree with betsy that all muslims must publicly show their support for this country, especially when we do not apply those same standards to other religous or ethnic groups" Your rationale behind having the same standards on this particular issue do not apply. We are talking about terrorism by Islamic fundamentalists.

And some have been doctrined and learned right at home from the old folks. How many Khadrs do we have, I wonder.

Although a part of me still hesitates, I'm beginning to think along those very same hard lines, Drea. And it's not too presumptuous to think that a lot of Canadians are either starting or have been drawing the same opinion.

I just saw that incident on CTV newsnet. Apparently the reporters were covering an altercation happening between the protesters and an older couple. Another civilian who witnessed the attacks on the reporters ran to help them but it was too late. The thieves already took the camera away. Why are the cops not intervening at all??? What's happening?

Charles and Riverwind, Care to read my post again? You're reacting to my statement in auto-mode without seeing what I'm trying to say. I said: FREEZE immigration for Muslims til the immigration officials and law enforcers can do their jobs. I should've added that apparently (according to discussions on MDuffy), with the former government of 13 years dramatically increasing the quota for immigration, plus the refugees that came in droves....immigration department was swamped, thus practically no proper screening was done. And I said, and will repeat again.... showing LOUD and Highly VISIBLE rallies and protests....this time, in support of Canada...is to the benefit of the Muslim community. Why??? Well, for one....the Muslim community is worried of retaliation, lumping-together and increasing anti-Muslim sentiments among Canadians, and it is not a far-fetched worry. Second, even before this terror arrest, it had already been widely suspected that certain imams were and are still preaching hatred and support for violence to infidels. Third, even before this terror arrest, we already know we've got terrorists embedded among the Muslim community. Fourth, the quick reaction to rally and protest (peaceful it may've been), but a show of support and kinmanship to the other protests worldwide nevertheless, and an attempt to stifle certain rights in Canada...can only have resulted in more concern for other citizens of this country. Where are those same people who organized and joined those rallies? Right, the muslims who've been minding their own business and had never participated in previous protests...why should they rally now? If you think voicing out the need to freeze immigration and urge the Muslim community to show a solidarity with the rest of Canada is an unfairness and bigotted reaction to all Muslims, then so be it. Nobody had ever mentioned a possible dire consequence if things do escalate, and suspicions and fear prevail. I would like to emphasize that I'm not bringing it out of bigotry, but simply as one who tends to look farther down the road and speculate on other possible dire scenarios. Think Japanese-Canadians during World War 2.