betsy

Combination of various incidents at different times and places, as you say, does not erase the fact. Arson and vandalism was involved. Criminal activities occurred. The legal adviser of the chieftains, actually conceded and agreed that yes, the violence involved the "imported reinforcements" from Toronto. She was quick to denounce that "it was instigated by some radicals from within"....and this Indian legal advisor went further to name a radical prominent Indian figure, Kahinetha Horn, as fanning and inciting violence! She was obviously trying to do some damage control....and trying to distance the chieftains from this violent group! Native Charm's indignation at what he/she called "dis-honoring the Native people" by me for practically just voicing out what or how the incidents were clearly being seen and/or perceived...sounded so ludicrous that saying it was hypocritical would be quite an understatement. That radical group from within your own people had "hijacked" and took over your protest and ignored the wishes of your own leaders. It not only made your leaders look quite ineffective....but made your whole grievances look like a joke! In one single swoop....this radical bunch derailed what your leaders were trying to achieve, and only cemented the stereotypical image you're trying to erase: that Natives can't get their act together. No wonder they're still in such a mess compared to all the other ethnic groups here in Canada. This bunch who took over your protest spat on your own people.

But you are forgetting...or deliberately ignoring one crucial fact why you are in the wrong: Your protest is illegal. It goes against the law. Maybe I'm not getting it....but can you please explain why you were raided by the OPP. I've asked this before but received no reply.

Me too. 4.5 for the Conservative. Sort of out-of-topic, but just want to pass this info to you guys: On Question Period Jane Taber was musing how "strange" Quebec is responding to Harper. Harper's stance on Kyoto and Afghan War clearly go against what Quebec wants...and yet, he's still soaring and getting much more stronger. A CTV reporter hailed a cab in Quebec and all the cab driver could say was..."I like Harper! There's a guy who does what he says!"

Well, just last Sunday on Question Period, Jane Taber, Craig Oliver, a lady representing Toronto Star and a man from Globe and Mail picked their "winner" and "loser". Winner: Stephen Harper - voted by Jane Taber (would've been seconded by Craig Oliver, but since Jane had already chosen Stephen, voted for Hillier instead, I think). Can't recall who the two others named....but definitely no one from the Liberals. Loser: Volpe - by Jane taber (I guess Volpe can kiss his leadership goodbye!) Liberals - by Craig Oliver (for the way they are right now!) People Who Voted For The Liberals - by the Globe and Mail guy (for thinking and expecting the Liberals to be an effective Opposition).

Also, you might like to get a job that you can do at home. I don't know what your field is or the skills you have....but just try to get anything. The main thing is not to give up! What happens if you lie about your condition? If there's patient-doctor confidentiality, how can they find out exactly when you've developed an illness? For all they know, you've acquired it after you've been hired. Some do hide their conditions. I know a couple of women who are pregnant and are both scrambling to find jobs before their pregnancy becomes obvious. Kindred and Injustice, if you are willing and think can handle the publicity, have you ever thought about bringing this problem for the disabled to the media? You described so much in your last post Kindred....it made me realize some realities that I had taken for granted.

Thank you for posting the article from the Turtle News. It clearly speaks for itself.

I somehow understand how it must feel since at one point we've faced a very difficult time in our lives, although it had nothing to do with disability. But reading your last post Kindred....the way you described some of the scenarios brought back painful memories of that time. What can I say? It was our faith in God that gave us strenght and a sense of calm in the midst of it all. It helped us pull through. I hope and pray you and Injusticebuster find the same.

If you get into a job that's unionized, will you still get fired? Won't the Union fight for you? How about the Human Rights tribunal on this matter? I'm just asking....

But how can this article by Turtle News be considered as telling BOTH sides? Although your elders admitted this has never been about Caledonia, the fact remains that Caledonia was unfairly victimized in this issue. Nowhere did the article tell the sides of CALEDONIANS WHO WERE AFFECTED by the blockades and the ensuing violence that followed. Just because it mentioned about the 6o or so Caledonians who showed support for the protest....does not mean both sides of the coin were represented. Where's the side of people like our fellow-poster Sahara? Who lost the contents of her freezers? Why on earth would we care about a few dollars' worth of food? I surely wouldn't want to tell that to a financially struggling couple or single parents or elderly trying to stretch their cents to put food on the table! “In the past 113 days our people have been subjected to racism, rock throwing, have had beer bottles thrown at them during the Caledonia Friday night riots, and been subjected to mobs of angry Caledonia people who have been left frustrated by the Ontario and federal government’s inability to provide them with information or an explanation for their inactions.” She said that government suffered from injuries and hate crimes. Our elderly were swarmed and attacked by mobs of Caledonia people, but no one from Caledonia has been charged. KKK material has been circulated in our mailboxes.” As to why the Caledonians resorted to these alleged responses, all this segment did was point the blame on to the government! Nowhere did this article placed any acknowledgement that yes, the government's inaction may've been PARTLY the reason why all things fell apart....but that this wouldn't have happened at all if the protest was done somewhere (where no innocents will feel compelled to raise more than their voices back at what they see as the direct cause of their plight), and/or if the protest was legal and lawful in the first place. "Hill said she agrees with Caledonia residents that the “rule of Canadian law has failed to force its own people to abide by their own laws. Our people are being arrested and charged for incidents, all of which, have been sparked by non-Six Nations people who are frustrated by their own government." ALL of which have been sparked by non-natives? Somehow I find that very hard to believe. True, the residents may've been frustrated by the government's inaction.....but more so, I bet they're angry at the ones who are directly causing this misery for them (regarding some injustice being claimed)...to which they (Caledonia) have nothing to do with, other than be conveniently used as a tactical pawn to force the government to resolve the problem. At least the supposedly red-neck Western Standard had interveiwed and given one of your own people some space and a chance to speak out and give the elders' side of the story. And they picked out someone with authority and knowledge to speak about these matters. She is a legal adviser of the elders, for crying out loud! And guess what, she did not deny about the reinforcements. In fact, she corroborated the story of the Western Standard (and it only shows that the magazine was not making any empty allegations)....and made it clear that the violence was never the intention of the elders. That it was instigated by some radicals within your group. But Turtle Island News? Nowhere did it mention anything about the toppled power line...or the 300 reinforcements on that day. Not a hint of any wrong doing from ANY NATIVES. EVERY NATIVE was squeaky clean of any wrong-doing...that's what's this Turtle News is saying! Does that not sound so strange to you? When in fact, if I'm not mistaken....in one of your post (or somebody else's at least)...it was pointed out that the vandals were castigated or were warned beforehand by the elders (therefore I'm assuming these vandals are Indians)! So what is this contradiction between that statement and the statement of Turtle News? If this is the best sample of your source of information....then the Western Standard wins hands down as far as objectivity and credibility is concerned....and undoubtedly proving they follow responsible journalistic rules. And to think that the Western Standard has the reputation of being red-neck! Sorry Enskat, but this is not really objective news. This article is more of a PRESS RELEASE. Others may even see it as nothing more than a rallying or "propaganda" rag.

Well, as somebody accused the media of "altering" and editing videos....the same thing is possible for any videos. Besides, I've given my opinions regarding those insults and racial slurs. They're part of the whole shebang! As for being ignorant with legalities...yes I am. Oh silly, don't be embarrassed for me. I'm not! Why should I? I would be embarrassed I think if I find myself incapable of giving my views and discussing without being abrasive and insulting.....since slipping down is quite easy and mustering one's composure (especially in this highly-charged topic) is quite a challenge, don't you think so? I've always maintained in this thread that my concern was for the unlawful disruption of Caledonia. It's never been about the legality of your land dispute....but somehow, it's always being brought up, and I always seemed to find myself sucked in. My rant about "equality for all" was a response when what's-his-name ranted about Canadians paying tax to the wrong people, that Caledonians should've not built their homes there etc.., Enskat, Yes, the media can be guilty of omission at times...but to have them all (from the right to the left-leaning outlets), showing and reporting practically the same things give more credibility to the story. If it's any consolation, I've always thought that the protesters were vicious right from the start....until the Western Standard stated about the peaceful intention of the elders, and that it only got really ugly when those imported supporters from Toronto came.

Enskat, How many people who read the news actually run to the library...or find other resources to dig up the roots of problems...researching...with the intention to really do their own investigative reading? Not unless one is writing a book perhaps. I am an ordinary folk. Just like millions of other ordinary folks, most of which do not even have any interest in joining political forums, much more digging up history and politics. The point I'm trying to make is that: accurate or not, people get information and make their own deductions, assumptions, judgments and conclusion through the media. A lot of media sources were talking of and showing the same clips of violence. What would make an ordinary joe think that what he's seeing on tv and reading in the papers are trumped up by the media to make the Natives look bad? It sounds like a conspiracy theory!

This is in reference to post #119 on page 8 of this thread: The Western Standard had quoted one your own people (a legal adviser to the chiefs by the name of Switlo). I doubt she'd just sit by if they'd mis-quoted her. One of the posters here claimed....and seemed to verify the Western Standard article. That, "SUPPORT WAS CALLED IN." And I've been asking the question that no one probably read, hence received no reply at all. I'll ask it again: Support was called in....for what? Why was support needed at all if apparently the elders were showing goodwill gestures by removing the blockades? That goodwill gesture would've undoubtedly diffused any further tensions! The Western Standard had maintained that it was only when this support was called in that violence erupted! The peaceful intention by the elders of this protest was dis-regarded and violated, not by the media....but by the "reinforcement" that came in and those who called for those reinforcements!

Enskat, Btw, it just occurred to me that at some previous posts on this thread, the media is being accused of being "biased" with their reports and newsclips. But if the purpose of this protest is to gain attention, of course they'd need the media! And what you call "villification of the protest by some posters"...was not just something that sprung up from thin air. It's sprouted up from the "seed of learning", after listening to the media. So you see, it's not working the way you hope it would.

One thing for sure with me, I share the same sentiment of Live From China. As to how much, I don't know. Would the amount be ADDITIONAL to other benefits such as education, health care, housing etc.., that they now have? Or, being a "nation" with their own self-government, will we then shake hands after the deal is met (and paid in full!), and they'd stand on their own feet as a nation without any further financial assistance from us?

Enskat, Yes the incident had gotten everyone looking in that direction of Canada. But as for listening and learning....that remains to be seen. And if they did listened, what have they actually heard and deduced from this situation? It may not be the kind of lesson you'd hoped they'd learn. Years ago, during Mulroney time, I listened to and learned about a similar stand-off. Can't remember the name of the place or the details of the incident. But I still recall the pictures splashed on the front pages, images of scary-looking big men with kerchiefs covering part of their faces blocking another road or a bridge. I think it's another land claim issue....but am not sure. Sure I learned a thing or two about the Natives, but it came with a negative impression. When I first heard of the Caledonia blockade....that picture of those scary-looking men was the first image that came to my mind. And as my posts reveal....lo and behold, I'm still quite ignorant about the history of all these disputes! I can't even recall the name of that stand-off place I was telling about, never mind the details that went with it. But I can still see the pictures in my head! Vividly. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.

I was referring to the previous incidents, before the government bought the land and the barricades came down. It's about that time when things got really ugly, with that power thing being pulled down. I haven't been following the news lately, not even MDuffy....so I'm glad to hear that normalcy is back in Caledonia. I was using the term "terrorism", because I saw it as such, although it may not be like the kind of terrorism we hear about in the news. It may be hard for you to accept it, but I am just being frank about it. I also likened it to extortion. It is this "trade-off" for the normalcy to be brought back to Caledonia. You give me this, and I give it back. You pay me this, and you'll get it back. It looked that same kind of principle behind it. It doesn't sound good I know...and it does paint a very dark picture. But that is the picture the protest....not me...was showing to the rest of Canada. Hence I've said: it's hurting your cause. As to why this matter is not resolved for this long....I have to admit ignorance to the intricacies of politics. I don't know if your elders or chieftains are elected officials by the native people...if they are, then maybe elect somebody else until you find someone who can...and will move things and start the ball rolling. We know how politicians are. It is easy to assume that the other party is the one who doesn't want to listen....but it is also possible that for some reason, somebody on your own side is not doing their job. I have read an article about a Native woman activist (don't know her name) and she complained of the corruptions in the reserves, among other things. So with politics, anything is possible.

Well, I meant what I said about Natives have had a rough time throughout history. I just mean that. Rough time. Like the Jews have had a rough time throughout history too! If that is an understatement, what word is more appropriate then? Awful time? I am not trying to make any less of the suffering you feel. You have the right to raise your voices...to be heard if you feel that you have been grievously wronged. But what you don't have, is the right to inflict suffering to others. Perhaps I am vapid....but vapid or not, I still believe that using an innocent as a whipping post just to get the attention of everyone, is not right. Why don't the elders take this matter to Parliament Hill?

IF they had INDEED become racist. What are their acts of racism? Calling the protesters names? If I am being victimized....would I put political correctness above all else? Would I even have the calm to consider it for a moment. I'm only human. If a black is hurting me, you bet I would be swearing and calling him a nigger! Am I a racist then? If they did some criminal acts, remember that you are all breaking the law. And since there are no law enforcers intervening....yes, every untoward incidents (from both sides) is a logical progression, especially if alcohol or drug is involved. Things will only escalate....and somebody will really get hurt.

Exactly. And whether there was a treaty ignored or not, or whether non-natives understood the root of the land claim disputes or not....the issue is about the unlawful disruption of Caledonia and its residents. It is not being racist to take the sides and speak out for those who are being victimized. It is this sense of justice and fairness that's making it so hard for me to have any sympathy or empathy for the protesters (even though I do know that the natives had had some rough times in history). That is why as an observer and as an outsider, I was giving a feedback in saying "this is not helping your cause." It's unfortunate that some had misunderstood (whether deliberately or stupidly), my previous post. Saying that "you're looking like the bad guys" is NOT the same as saying "You are the bad guys." Trying to paint an angry Caledonia as "racist" does not hold much water. Of course they'll be angry! Of course they'll resist! Can anyone blame them now if they had indeed become racist? This crisis is going on for too long now...and without any lawful intervention, the consequences played out as would be expected when there is no law.

That's why it makes me wonder why on earth would the Liberals and NDP insist on something that had been considered a failure! There's more to it than just their so-called "concern" for the welfare of the children.

Until the matter is settled, like it or not, the simple fact is as it is. Some may have been given special PRIVILEGES (or certain rights that may have been bestowed), but until the court...or whoever it is or what body it is that decides how this dispute is going to end...no wishful thinking or spin, nor aggressive posturing and childish tantrums claiming MINE! will change the present or current rightful scenario. ALL CANADIANS have all the EQUAL rights to be in Canada, partaking of all rights and privileges granted to all citizens, and EQUALLY obligated to uphold and be governed by the laws and government of this country. Canada belongs to ALL CANADIANS .........of the past, present and the future.

You gotta be kidding me! You mean they just went right on and ignored your mothers? You should've booted them outa there fast..."banocking their white, red, blue, brown and whatever color behinds". What they did to your leaders was a downright insult! One thing to dis-honor men leaders....but it's really, really, absolutely, and definitely unforgiveable to insult WOMEN leaders! What do they think? Women are not to be taken seriously as leaders? You must've been livid with anger after all that downright insult, offense and dishonor.

In the beginning....yep. It's that next sentence...that part that sez..."Support was called in..." that raises some serious curiousity. Because it's right then when things really got ugly. So support was called in....FOR WHAT PURPOSE??? That article in the Western Standard is quite true then. As I thought it is.

Eh? Are you okay? Nothing serious I hope.

Why did the police raid the protest? Some of the residents may've been opposed at the onset...did it manifest its opposition in any way? And why were they opposed? What were they concerned about? I could see and understand that from the onset, making Caledonia residents miserable was not the purpose. A day or two would've been bearable for them I guess...but it's been dragging on for months now. And from what I've read, some native radicals had called in those "reinforcements" that eventually "hijacked" your protest and made it ugly. Making lives miserable may not have been the purpose then, but Native Charms' comments negate what you just claimed, and indicate that now, it seems it is. So in other words, those Caledonians who had opposed the idea of this protest from the onset can now say that they've been proven right to be opposed to it in the first place.