betsy

I think you are referring to worshipping idols. But as to dancing for God in the bible...I think it was King David who danced, and if I'm not mistaken God was pleased with him. hence some Christian denominations include dancing in their services.

Sports give such "sales pitch." The little leagues, being rallied by coaches. Every now and then, we see proof that it is more than just an innocent fun game...when we hear of brawls breaking out among parents and coaches! Yes, it is not about religous belief that they preach....but about behaviour, or conduct. How many kids are really not into sports...but doing it any way...to please a dad...or because it is expected of him to do so? It is a part of life that parents steer their children into some directions.

Our parents are our main adult figures of authority. We learn values from them. I don't see any difference learning and growing up in their beliefs from learning simple table manners and other things we normally learn from home. Anyway, how many among us decide to think for ourselves when we reach teenhood? Isn't it the norm for teens to usually make an exaggerated effort to go against their parents' teachings and beliefs? Well, as for exploitation of kids...I have a problem seeing the schools, with the help of parents...get children go door-to-door selling products. Yes, companies give donations to schools...or the schools raise funds from these....but the companies end up taking advantage of these children. A 9 year old girl was trying to get subscriptions of magazines (mainstream glamour popular names)....she was hoping to reach a quota of subscribers so she can have the prize: a limo ride. The companies know that no one can refuse children...especially grandparents and other close relations and friends of the families. I know it has merits...teamwork or learning how to go for it...etc.., But it's still exploitation, because somebody is makig a profit out of the labor of these children.

A Muslim girl comes to me saying that...I'd just be polite and treat her the same as I would any solicitor. It's a different story when they start to sit down and open up the Bible/Koran...and start preaching. Or when they start getting pushy and wouldn't take no for an answer. I had one jehovah Witness who wouldn't budge even though I told her I was busy. Finally I just said "bye...." and closed the door. I didn't slam it. Sure it sounds annoying. But then there's a difference when the annoyance comes from a kid. It's the same as when they come knocking on your door, interrupting you in the middle of something...selling chocolates...or asking donations/sponsorship for some sports (especially when we aren't into sports)...but still, we support them in their little endeavors, and if we totally disapprove, as civilized people we decline graciously or politely. No need to be rude. It's the viciousness...and the fantasy of violence towards the girl, or anyone who might have approached them with Jesus (as one of the comment emphasized)...that came as a shock to me. In a way, I am glad that you've given that link for it really opened my eyes.

Okay Liam...I'll comment on your link. We've got wing nuts on our side too. There, I've said it again, just for you. Happy now?

I have already said several times that our religion have wignnuts too! And no one had to goad me...into saying it! I had printed vicious comments...which I find disturbing. You have not even commented on it. And here you post a link...which I had already addressed before: we've got wingnuts. What is there left to say? So I tried to draw your attention back to my previous post: the fanatics on your own side of the fence. And what reply do I get? Deflection. So I throw back the ball to you and say... Like typical left wingnut reaction -- when they can't address facts presented before them---in this case, FANATICISM exists on non-religious sides -- they try to bury the issue. Deflect. Throw mud. And use the bigot race card?

I'd be more worried of our children SOLICITING for various organizations (schools, sports, etc..,)...knocking on STRANGERS" DOORS...now that we know what kind of vicious mentality some "peace-loving" lefties fantacize about! All it takes is being at the wrong time and one leftie wing nut answering that door!

An ad can offer you an all-you-can-eat buffet, or your child eats free....or you can go for fine dining...or a great deal for the whole family! If you're watching your diet, buffet may be a very bad idea. On the other hand, if you've got 10 children, option b might be the best way to go. But of course, you get what you pay for. What comes with the package? Can you pick and choose? Depends if you can have it custom-made. That's why others open up their own kitchen...so they can choose all the ingredients! They can eliminate hot peppers from the list if they don't agree with it. At the end of the day....it's your choice.

Same as why would the morality of those un-associated with religion be proposed as a matter for public implementation or as a model for public behaviour? Why should schools dabble in morality at all? Anyway, who were the pioneers who built the foundation of this country? What religion did they have? What religion did they bring with them? Therefore what type of belief is incorporated into the system?

I don't exactly understand what you're saying here. Please explain. And what does SWF means?

Hmmm...thinking of tips and hints to give you.... I'd say you'll never know for yourself until you try it. I can't really describe to you the taste of chocolate...but I'm telling you, it's good!

Have you heard of that guy who lost 8 children and his wife in a fire about 3 years ago? It was well-publicised. He is a Christian. And he said it was his faith that got him through. Think of my "testimony"...and his "testimony"...as a referral....to something you ought to try. Think of it like someone recommending tylenol for a headache...since they find it's the best brand!

I was responding to his posts. We were having a discussion. I think my observation is quite reasonable considering he himself had said he studied and read different theologies...that he was searching for the truth! Someone would not spend that amount of time and go through all the trouble reading various materials and trying to learn something about them, if they don't have very serious questions about faith...and that they don't take it too lightly!

Would you have known of chocolates...that chocolates do exists... if no one had ever told you about it? How would you know it got discovered at all...if the discoverer or anyone did not announce that he discovered it?

I can only answer for myself...because I can say ACCURATELY how I feel. It would not be speculation...or hearsay. As for sharing the tenets and morality of our faith......you are being invited, and given the news. You are not being dragged to the church and baptized against your will. You can always decline the invitation if you wish to have no part in it at all. Think of it in terms of an advertisement. You want to buy or not?

I had criticized the reactions on Rachel in my post #21, but so far no one had bothered to say anything about them. These are some of the comments and reactions towards the little girl: "Jesus wants to love on you. How fun. I have trained my kids to punch kids in the mouth if they attemp to hand them any religious literature or preach them in any form. If it is an adult, then my kids will kick them in the shins." "if this little girl approached me while I was bowling, I would slap the snot out of her. LOL! Not really, I would have accepted her literature and then wiped my poopy butt with it in the bowling alley bathroom." "If i had been waiting for my turn to bowl and some religious lil' freak kid came up to me saying that shit i'd tell her to [censored] off!. Actually i'd just say thanks and take the leaflet..." "I'm gonna teach my kids to only punch kids who hand out Jesus tracts and say things like, "God wants to love on you" "I would have looked her in the eye so that she was really looking at me and said, "There is not God. There is no Santa Clause. There is no Heaven. Here's $10 to use in the arcade. Go kill something." "If she walked up to me, I would grab the leaflets and make her choke on it." "fuck that shit i burned a bible some guy gave me at school and i also threw one at him too and declared "i love satan!!" http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all...v%3D8PXrBQlN9Rw ******************************** And all Rachel did was approach a stranger and said: "Hi. um, God's just telling me that you're on his mind, and he just wants to take you and love on you and he has special plans for you and your life. He just wants you to follow him with your whole heart." ********************************* The whole message of Rachel took what...30 seconds? a minute? I assume that you have been approached by a stranger at least once...asking you to fill up an application for Visa or Mastercard... ...Or your kid had gone knocking on strangers' doors asking if they could sponsor him to enter a hockey league....or buy these chocolates for the school... Have you ever turned around and joked to your friend...or to a family member: "I'd love to grab his hockey stick and use his head for a puck?" or... "I shoulda just shove all those chocolates down his throat! The creep! Slaving away for peanuts...being brainwashed by the school and their parents to do hard labor for what? To get a freakin' limo ride! ************************************* Don't you find those reactions disturbing at all?

I can only answer for myself alone. I need my faith. My husband and I had been through terrible times together...and I would say, only our faith in God had strengthen us and seen us through those tough times. I feel comforted by my faith. I feel lucky to have my faith. Some may call it a "crutch"....but it works for me. I find it easy dealing with the curves and downside of life....my faith is my personal therapist. Available anytime of the day...or night! It makes housecalls. And it's free. But what about you? You still sound like you are still un-decided...or unsure....or confused. Your posts seem to reflect that your comments are more directed to yourself, in an indirect way....that you are still trying to convince yourself that you do not need faith.

I think we all tend to condescend at some point (for various reasons),....sometimes, unwittingly or without meaning to....for condescension is rooted in what we believe, (and it may be about anything)....thinking we are right. Condescension is not exclusive to religion. And yes...debate about religion or faith....leads to nowhere. It is one of those that just goes on and on and on... I just want to let you know that I am not angry with you...or anyone here in this forum. We do get heated up sometimes....but nothing personal.

I know if I was a terrorist intent on blowing up a plane I would try to make myself as conspicuous as possible. Or, so to throw them off, I would do just that!

Same here. Actually I am not a practicing Catholic. I haven't been in church for decades! My faith is in Jesus. But I think you'd agree that fanaticism is not only found in religions.

Good grief. Are you so hypersensitive that you can't bear to see wing-nut Christians being talked about without pointing out something Muslims do that's worse? Doesn't it kind of go without saying that people disapprove of suicide bombs? And for the record, if you look at my posts going back months or years on this forum, you'll find that I really really really dislike fundamentalist Muslims and have never been shy about saying so. Well I don't know if you've read most of the threads here, but from what I've read from a lot of those that do bash Christians, they do not distinguish "fanatics" or "fundamentalists" when they do. And yet, most of these same posters go out of their way to point out that only "extremists" or "fundamentalists" create havoc among the Muslims. Of course Islam is going to be mentioned. Comparison is inevitable! Hey, if Christianity can be brought out and used to rebutt in the Smoking Ban thread...and my views on Smoking Ban can be used to advance the burqua argument....of course, anything is a tool! I was sensitive to the extreme comments made about the girl with the bowling ball. Those said comments, some of which fantacised of doing her violence, were on that link. One can't help but think that there is a strong anti-Christianism going on. No I did not bother to see the other video. Your descriptions were enough...for I know that there are religious zealots...and extremists....among those who call themselves Christians too. No I have not read your posts from the past. I've read some that you've made every now and then...

Is it blindness indeed? In the case of your pizza, there is already proof that gives you the truth. Medical studies and findings had already given the evidences. But the advertisement still lures you to that pizza....offering the familiar comfort. You still believe it ...and even refer to it as a "reality", even though you know it only offers an illusion of that reality. Oh man, reading that makes me think of the comparison to the devil and temptation. Well I don't know how to explain it...so I'll tell you about my mother. My mother had a near-death experience. She saw the light and she felt so wonderful that she did not want to go back....she just wanted to go to the light. But she got yanked back to life. She had been religious throughout her life....but after that experience, she became even more so....that at her old age, she became an active participant and was part of an effort that saw the restoration of our church. She may have halllucinated the whole thing....or she may have indeed seen something beyond. But whatever it was, it gave her a surge of strength...and had her faith soaring even more. To the end. We all want to see an evidence, a proof. But just because there is no evidence proving it is true....it does not mean it is not true.

I feel embarrassed! When you put it that way....it seems I'm standing here with a pair of pliers and a hot poker...and that I wrung that "confession" from you out of extreme duress!

And it's comforting, isn't it? Hence it's called "comfort food." My religion offers me comfort! Your pizza gives me heartburn...but at least it gives you comfort...nothing wrong with that! You're big guy, you can make you own choice, right? Gotta go!

You know what you call as the "advertisement of reality" is not reality at all...because YOUR OWN health guru are saying pizza clogs your heart! So that statemnet is pure bologna.! Typical liberal gibberish!