betsy

Well, McKenzie's statement is about the protocol or procedures involved. He is explaining that this is a NATO problem. Whereas Noonan's statement is about "witnessing evidence of abuse." Noonan's statement is still considered an allegation. He may have witnessed it, but unless it is confirmed....it still remains just that, an allegation. NATO spokesperson from Belgium interviewed at MDuffy Live sometime last week or the week before had stated that there is an investigation by NATO...and that at that point (the time of interview), everything is just an allegation. But whether it is true or not (and I tend to believe that it is true since the region is known for using tortures)...it is as Mckenzie explained. It is something that can be dealt with by the upper brass (diplomatic level) of NATO. McKenzie actually thinks it is a good idea if NATO builds and oversee a prison for detainees....since a decent meal will probably be reason enough for some taliban to surrender.

How on earth do you view the Liberals' 12.8 billion dollar increase in military spending as "weakening our military"? "The Liberal government provided General Hillier with the authority to reshape the military, and wrote him a virtual blank cheque for the largest military spending increase in a generation in the 2005 budget: $12.8 billion over five years – an increase that will eventually take Canadian defence spending higher than any level since the Second World War." Source: http://www.canadians.org/peace/issues/Marc...s/military.html Well I don't know what happened to that money, Norm. All I remember was that our Canadian soldiers had to hitch a ride with the Americans just so to be able to reach and give relief aid in another country. I think this was during the tsunami in Indonesia.

Top general calls Liberal rule 'decade of darkness' Hillier's speech 'too political,' says Grit defence critic Mike Blanchfield, The Ottawa Citizen Published: Saturday, February 17, 2007 Gen. Rick Hillier, the chief of defence staff, was accused yesterday of being a political "prop" of the Conservative government for referring to past defence cuts by the Liberals as "a decade of darkness." Gen. Hillier denied after his speech it had any political intent. "I'm not a politician. I don't tread in those waters. My job as chief of defence staff is to describe clearly and paint a picture," he said. "As the chief of defence staff, I care not who governs our country as long as they support the Canadian Forces." http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...9571625&k=40838 For Better Or For Worse by Ray Dick The dowry that Canada brings to the partnership is a military that almost all defence analysts agree needs an additional billion dollars a year over its normal operating costs over the next five years just to maintain the status quo and its credibility on the national scene. Ships are tied up at docks because they lack the crews to go to sea, sovereignty flights, especially in the northern regions, have been cut to the bone and the army is hard pressed to meet its far-flung commitments at home and abroad. This is not to mention rusting equipment, a deteriorating infrastructure, outdated tanks and an immediate need to replace Sea King helicopters that are more than 40 years old http://www.legionmagazine.com/features/mil...tters/02-05.asp

Hah! That should've been a convincing argument....except for the fact that it rings hollow. Tell me, what about these Muslim women "detained" in their household, within their own community...suffering psychological, mental...and who knows, physical tortures...right here in Canada? For speaking their mind. For exposing the Taliban in our midst. How do they torture their women who ratted, I wonder. How do they deal with women who are trying to break free from the strains and would like to have the freedom that's just within their grasp? The freedom that's just outside their door? Sounds to me that this doesn't bother those who are so righteous about this torture-issue.

Not all the torture allegations come from people identified as Taliban. Does all the right wing take allegations of abuse so lightly? The Geneva Convention is quite clear that prisoners under care and those transfered are not to be hurt. The good work our soldiers do gets undermined any time detainees are abused. If our allies cannot be trusted, are they really our allies? I don't take allegations of abuse lightly, I don't think Canada does....if it is done by our troops. Just look at what happened in Africa years back. But right now, it is not really our problem. Our government had already done something now to have monitoring....at least, we've done that. Let NATO handle the rest! The three holy party leaders had already done enough to make this country look divided. The last thing we want now is to step on the toes of NATO....and make life more complicated for our soldiers. Since our soldiers will find themselves shoulder-to-shoulder with other NATO allies in some comabt situations.

wrong post.

Many of the detainees are ordinary citizens that been rounded up, questioned, tortured and then released because they were not Taliban. Mackenzie is no longer a military leader. He is a former Conservative candidate who is a spokesman for Tory policies. Well, what you've just described is a regular occurence at war time, in a lot of parts of the world. Some ordinary citizens don't even get released. They end up dead and buried in some mass graves. Some don't even have to become suspects of any traitorous activities or sympathising with the enemies....all they have to be is be what they are. Go ask the Jews. What I'm saying is: welcome to the real world. The horrible and frightening side of war. Mckenzie may no longer be a military leader....but I don't think it is irrational for me to say that I'd still believe his words and assessments as absolute fact more than I would believe a Taliban suspect. Anyway, what's his being a Conservative now got to do with it? Are you saying you're automatically dismissing him just because he is a Conservative? His military background, rank and experience do not count at all? Yet you readily believe what a Taliban says. You gotta be kidding....

Mishandling is a charitable term. Some view Stephen Harper's public support for Minister O'Connor as far worse than mishandling. I enjoyed this headline in the Globe and Mail: "PM stands by O'Connor -- but for the wrong reasons." Mishandling and mistakes....well, who don't make any mistakes? History is riddled with mistakes. What political party leader didn't make any mistakes? The Liberals MISHANDLED and made terrible mistakes. We're still uncovering those mistakes. Although I must say...the Liberals seems to have a penchant for mis-handling taxpayers' money. The Liberals practical made the mistake of weakening our military....that we even had to hitch a ride with the USA just so we could reach another country desperately in need of aid. Ignatieff made a terrible blunder during the Lebanon war. Nobody asked for his head on a silver platter! Anyway....that's for another topic. All I'm saying is that....mistakes and mishandling can happen. But as for being a weasel.....well, that's a different story. Well then, so maybe Harper made a mistake (or maybe not)....so what's the point of CONTINUOUSLY pounding away? In the middle of a crisis when we're at war? When is enough enough? So they can all get back to boosting our troops' morale and standing tall and united?

There's just so much revealed in a turn of phrase sometimes. ...or in one simple word. Well, at least you three (Fig, Norm, Dob) proves a very good sample of a united front. The holy other three (Jack, Dion and Gil) could've learned a lot from you. Too bad you're facing the wrong direction.

Right now, there is one big threat to the safety and well-being of our soldiers! Not to mention, the mission. And it's not coming from the war-front. It's coming from these party leaders scrambling over each other to score political points! TELL THEM TO STOP TRYING TO DIVIDE THE COUNTRY. As leaders, they should spend the effort by leading our country to present a united front!

Why should we expect them to be worried about our own soldiers? We are their enemy! Why would you underestimate them and assume they'll think like our Opposition leaders? They may be fanatics....but I don't think they're idiotic! Oh I get it. This is the strategy like....."let's appease them, guys. Keep a low profile, and MAYBE they won't do any 9/11 on us." It's not enough that our troops don't torture them....our troops must also protect them! Heck, even Hitler thought he was righteous in ridding the world of Jews and other considered "garbage" of humanity. Where did you ever see a war where-in soldiers protect their enemies??? What do you think this is? Paintball shooting? Talk about cockamamie and unable to grasp! Stop spitting in the wind! It's not funny. Lol.

Is the trial over???

I'd say they've come a long way. Used to be, prisoners were just tied down on a stake and left to rot in the dessert. I'm not worried about the Taliban prisoners. As long as our own soldiers do not indulge in torture...why should I care? WE'RE AT WAR! Too bad if they get tortured by their own people. Brutality is part of the culture in that region. Frankly, the majority of Canadians do not care! It's only these Oppositions Leaders who are exploiting the issue for political points. These party leaders are making Canada look divided....at a war time when showing a united front is so crucial.

Given that Mackenzie is a Conservative, I'm sure he would like to put the responsibility elsewhere. Yes, I'm sure the Taliban prisoners are more trustworthy than our military leaders. Since they're so liberal after all.

Amnesty International must come along too. Just to make sure that the MPs are doing a very good job monitoring....and that absolutely no one is hurting the feelings of the Taliban.

You know, there is one possible way to handle this that ought to satisfy the Oppositions leaders. They should: Choose some of their own MPs and send them to Afghanistan to monitor the situation. If they want to guarantee no tortures....hey, it should all start right from the very beginning. So there can be no doubts about our troops either. In order for them to guarantee that our own men are not in any way engaging in tortures....these MPs must go marching with our men, just so they'll be there to witness the "capture moment." Since these MPs are against any sorts of firearms, we will not torture them by making them carry any rifles or firepower of any kinds of weapons. But we will provide them with their very own survival kit: Valium and a shovel (for digging), so they can quickly bury their heads whenever the going gets rough! These MPs do not have anything to worry about. If they ever get captured by the Taliban....I'm sure, they'll be treated humanely as possible, since the reason why these MPs are in Afghanistan in the first place is for the Taliban's benefit anyway....so they'll make quite a credible confession during Taliban Question Period to say: "hey, we're on your side!"

Of course. Didn't you read about the low-morale aspect of this? Haven't you read Army Guys and Weaponeer's pov? And how about if we follow the idiotic wish of some of our bright Oppositions leaders...stop handing the prisoners to the Afghans immediately. Who's going to babysit those suspects? Our troops? You want these insane, fanatics inside our military base? It's hard enough for our soldiers trying to stop determined suicide bombers from coming close to them....and you want them right inside with them! So our men will be watching not only the outside perimeters....but most importantly, watching the insides too? Never knowing when one could manage to escape and kill as many along the way? You want to saddle our troops with the ADDED responsibility of taking good care of these suspects....the very same people, most of whom, were trying to blow up and send our men back in bodybags?

It is a Canadian problem so long as we take detainees and transfer them over. Nope. And definitely not the military's problem. It is NATO's problem. The upper brass...the diplomatic level part of NATO! That's what McKenzie explained. Given his experience and his rank, I would take his word at face value...and readily accept it as absolute fact!

This is what I suggested in another post. Prisoners could be in a NATO prison with Afghans being trained in the process. The prisons, once staffed by trained people and with full monitoring could be transfered fully to Afghans. That's why tis true, what McKenzie said: This is not a Canadian problem!

It isn't a simple question. How is that torture of detainees helps Canadians troops? Let's say you're given a choice, either the safety of our soldiers, or the safety of the prisoners. Which do you choose? It IS a simple question. What is your answer? Never mind about the torture aspect.....just let us know your choice.

That's why you guys should tell Jack and Stephane to nix that silly idea of building a prison for the detainees! Just like you said, if we get kicked out of there....then what? More $$$$$$$ down the tube!

Well wouldn't this just be a dream-come-true for all who wants to get our troops out of there? So what's the problem then? If this happens, don't worry - be happy!

Hah! I do question the rationality, and the reality of those who instantly believe the ALLEGATIONS made by SUSPECTS as absolute facts! These people would rather gleefully sacrifice the welfare of our troops, undermine the mission....just to make some political points. So never mind throwing this morality bs! It's like spitting in the wind!

"Canadians have every right to demand and expect that ALL prisoners, that were transfered by our representatives there, be treated correctly" - to the extent that you put these prisoners ahead of our own troops? Let's say you're given a choice, either the safety of our soldiers, or the safety of the prisoners. Which do you choose?

Wasn't it in Afghanistan (under the Taliban regime) that Bin Laden took refuge after 9/11? My views perhaps are too simplistic....but analysts and strategists have their reasons why it is important to have democracy established in the region.