betsy

He did more than ignore it, he made a joke of it. It is Naive if you don't think he's laughing at us. He's already laughed at us and maybe you should read this thread again if you can't see it. If I was to move to France, I wouldn't care about the gov't and its services. I would care about fitting in with French people and that includes dressing like them, speaking like them, and taking on their ways including food and culture. I woulnd't have a screw you attitude and care less what people would think of me coming. But this is the attitude from the people who are coming here these days. They simply do not care to integrate and Xul will be joining his ethnic enclave like the best of them. And to no benefit will this be to Canada. He knows this, I know this, but the jokes on us. We desperatly need to overhaul our immigration system so people can no longer simply 'wander in' to Canada unless they are only here to work. This would greatly benefit our lives as Canadians and work shortages would be resolved. Of course, Xul doesn't want this kind of program. And the Liberal Party of Canada doesn't want this program either. So they both have somehting in common. It's this which is killing our democracy and country. The jokes on us, and Xul is laughing his way to Canada. The little girl was protecting her laws and country. She didn't give in. You've all given in and this thread proves it. Well I'm at a lost as to how Xul is laughing at us. Can you please cite exactly where that offending thread is? From his comments below, I think what he's saying only mirrors the values that we, as a democracy stand for, and he conveyed a willingness to adapt to ours by saying "I will only obey your opinion as I wish to go into the yard of your house." Mike, you know how I feel about our immigration and most importantly my stance on multi-culturalism. Just to be clear, I don't want multi-culturalism...I do believe so strongly that it is destroying us! I want a very strict requirements for those who wish to come here. They should be the ones who will adapt to our system, not the other way around. My beef here is the way Xul is being singled out as an example, based on mere assumptions. You can explain your views without having to poke at one of us in this fashion. All he did was give his views, just like the rest of us. If Xul made light of your comments....I think it is only a normal reaction when someone finds himself unexpectedly facing this kind of third-degree scrutiny - publicly, before us all on this board. I want fairness...and I don't think this is being fair to Xul.

I don't think I'd want anyone to be banned for stating their views, even though we deem it racist. Certainly not MikeDavid. He is explaining his views. He is not just making mindless racial slurs. Besides, when does a comment become "racist?" Who decides what comment is racist? Anyway, I'd rather hear a racist's point of view and engage him/her in a discussion (as long as it is a discussion)....than banning him/her outright. That wouldn't solve anything. This is a forum....we should be able to discuss issues even though some views may be repugnant, painful or unbearable. If we feel anyone had crossed the lines, then we can also freely point it out in our discussion, as we are doing now....when some of us are practically castigating MikeDavid.

Nobody is asking you to welcome him. We are just appalled at this uncalled for rudeness. Especially to a new forum member at that!

Way to welcome him to this forum. You've outdone yourself. But you see that's just it. I'm not being fair anymore. It is not Xul's right of passage in life to come to Canada. And everyone will say 'well Xul and his family should be able to share in what is Canada' blah blah. But I take an economic point of view. Him coming here and using our services is what is killing us. It's the reason our healthcare, infrastructure and schooling are messed up beyond repair. We are even running out of power and the net economic gain of for each person is *decreasing* year by year. I don't give a damn about his experience of Canada. Good he can visit if he wants, but to live here for good? We simply do not NEED HIM here! If we did, then I'd welcome him. If Xul isn't going to help me, or other Canadians, then I do not want him here. It's nothing personal against him, it's just that he's a real world tangeable example that we can all relate to. I'd like to hear his story of who he is and why he's coming. I'd like to hear the whole story, age, kids, wife. what his plans are. And when he tells his story, you will see that there is simply nothing for him here. Basically, the only person who benefits from Xul coming here is his family. Not me, not you. Just him... .. and the Liberal Party of Canada of course. (which is the real reason he's even allowed to come). I see your point (and I think you know I agree with some of your ideas)...however, I find it offensive the way you're using Xul as an example. You are frustrated with our system. That's not Xul's fault. As Jefferiah had stated, if Tim Horton's is giving away free meals, of course people will take advantage of that. So vent your frustration towards the right direction....towards those politicians and supporters of open borders! Being new to the forum, I do emphatize with Xul for having to read such comments suddenly directed towards him. Honestly, you owe him an apology. It is mis-directed rants like those that make others balk at looking at it from your point of view. Anyway, what made you so sure that Xul and any of his family will not be bringing any contribution to Canada?

Yes, I looked at the video and I share Bonam's sentiment on this one, about that just like a schoolyard squabble. Actually I couldn't tell who's the Jewish and who's the Palestinian between the two. At least the soldiers, whom I assume to be Jewish, treated it just like one would try to diffuse ordinary verbal catfight between women. We may feel disturbed by it...but we have to realize human reactions during times of war and conflict. Those people are living it. We are just viewers. I didn't read the comments though.

I guess the comedic interlude is just a bonus! No. You get a comedic reply for a comedic question.

No surprise there. So now I will call "bullshit" on your attempts to assert "to each his own". You don't believe that at all. You just say that when it is convenient to do so and ignore it when you want to make it your business. Like I said, no surprise. I only choose the 'same-sex marriage' example as the most clear cut way to show that your assertion of "to each his own" was pure bullshit. You don't mind your own business. You make it your business to interfere with others. Typical double-talking hypocritical theist. Eh? Can't you read? Or did you conveniently overlooked this? I said: What? It's not enough that I respect the new right that they have? Do I have to change my belief to make you guys happy? You gotta be kidding me! Anyway...whatever. Bullshit away to your heart's content until the cows come home.... If that's how you understand it...hey, what can I say. C'est la vie.

Well, good for you! If your god is the jug of milk....hey, to each his own! I think I'll pray to my jug of milk for you to develop a sense of humour. Thank you.

We do not know how we would feel or think when faced with such a harrowing situation...when we're consumed by grief. It is a human tendency to lash out at someone or anything when we are in pain. You know what I pray for? That God does not put me to the test. And if He does, that I may find the courage and the strength to face whatever comes my way....that I may not fail His test. There is one individual who had inspired me with the strength of his faith. He was a Christian farmer who had lost all his 8 children and wife in a fire about 3 years ago. He was asked at that time while he was burying his dead, how he was dealing with it. And he said that it is his faith in God that keeps him strong. Imagine the pain of losing all. Gotta wonder if he asked God "Why?" Perhaps, since he was feeling extreme pain. And if he did....could it be wrong in the eyes of God to ask? After all, didn't Jesus, as human, ask God, "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" Only God knows. Only God will judge.

Does that view of yours apply to the secular marriages of same-sex individuals? If not, why not? What does "to each his own" translate to you? That you should convert to my religion? Practice my own belief? Am I your keeper? No. I'm just wondering if your stated view of "to each his own" applies to you minding your own, and letting others mind their own when it comes to (secular) same sex marriages. I don't know what same-sex marriage got to do with this but just to satisfy you, I'd say it's none of my business what people's sexual preferences are. It becomes my business when it is being rammed down my throat and forcing/coercing me to change my belief. Same sex marriage is now legal. The law had given them the right to marry. I have to respect that legal right. Besides, the opposition was about the changing of the traditional definition of marriage. I would say if the "rule" of "to each his own" is to be followed, then gays should've just thrown their hands in the air and said unanimously..."Okay, darn! We tried. So let's have our own name for this blasted thing! Let them keep their blasted marriage! Ours will be better! Hmp!"

Does that view of yours apply to the secular marriages of same-sex individuals? If not, why not? What does "to each his own" translate to you? That you should convert to my religion? Practice my own belief? Am I your keeper?

Amen. For all the good it's done, perhaps this godly science greatly contributed to the ills as well.

Well, good for you! If your god is the jug of milk....hey, to each his own!

We do not know how we would feel or think when faced with such a harrowing situation...when we're consumed by grief. It is a human tendency to lash out at someone or anything when we are in pain. You know what I pray for? That God does not put me to the test. And if He does, that I may find the courage and the strength to face whatever comes my way....that I may not fail His test. There is one individual who had inspired me with the strength of his faith. He was a Christian farmer who had lost all his 8 children and wife in a fire about 3 years ago. He was asked at that time while he was burying his dead, how he was dealing with it. And he said that it is his faith in God that keeps him strong. Imagine the pain of losing all.

That's kind of a 50/50 thing: either you get the job or you don't. So if you didn't get it I suppose you'd say God didn't want to have it or something. You see where I'm going? With SEVEN employees with seniority ALL CHANGING THEIR MINDS? That's still 50/50? So you see it that way....and I see it as God's divine intervention, an answer to my prayer. As I've said, of course the way a non-believer would look at it will be different from that of a believer. And that is not to criticize you, but just stating the difference between you and I. If I didn't have it....yes, knowing myself, I'd shrug my shoulders and say, "well, maybe God didn't want me to have it,".....then that's that, then get on moving with my life, and trying something else. Where's the harm in that? I've had prayers that didn't come out the way I asked for....and I think so far I've done okay. I've never had to go pay a psycologist or therapist to listen to my woes...or treat me for depression....or prescribe me some numbing drugs so I could deal with life's realities. If prayers work for me, help me with my burdens, or give me solace and most importantly, inner peace....wouldn't you say, hey, to each his own?

Now, how on earth did you come up with that stupid idea that these two very anti-American Iranians would host a party and invite white women? See what happens when you don't think, girl?

Here is my statement, Drea: I would say that judging by their attitudes towards the Americans ....to the point of interfering as to whom I should work for or not, which was totally none of their business (which was practically constant that's why I didn't encourage the friendship), I can safely assume that they fall under the category of "radicals!" Talk about benefit of the doubt! Your sense of judgement is odd. And you must be sitting on your common sense, that's why it's nowhere in sight! At least I could say I was there...it happened to me....their reaction was shown to me...they tried to dictate to me or brainwash me...at least, give me the benefit of the doubt! You were not there at all, and yet you come flying to their rescue. Well we know why, eh Drea? I overlooked this post....and to tell you the truth, your offensive reaction is quite baffling, not to mention in poor taste. Why would you say that of white women?

Now, where did I say that I suspected they were planning a bombing? I did not make any assumption based on their country of origin alone, or the color of their skin! I made the assumption because of their unusual vehemence against the Americans, and why it would be any of their business if I worked for Americans! The nerve! And I specifically said why I did not encourage the friendship! I didn't want to be subjected to forced indoctrination - for that's what it felt like - everytime they saw me, they kept hammering why I keep on working for Americans! Tin foil hat my foot! Well, get that dunce cap off your head! THINK, GIRL! In your haste to automatically defend them, you yourself jumped to conclusions without fully understanding my story!

Maybe lucky that they know I don't understand their language?

I've had prayers answered. One is too personal to be detailed, but suffice it to say that it was one of the most desperate moment of my life. I needed a regular job that I applied to desperately, to be able to get out of an intolerable situation, however the lady doing the hiring had told me I hardly stand a chance for there were several employees with seniority vying for the position. I prayed. The next morning a phone call woke me up. It was the lady and she said I got the job! She was happy for me...and she said she couldn't believe that all the employees - all seven of them - had changed their minds. And it's not the only time it happened...although I must say that incident really shocked me too, that was really instant result! Sometimes the answer to the prayer is not obvious. It may not be the answer we want to hear or want to have (like healing cancer or winning 6/49), but eventually we come to the realization that that was the answer, and it turned out for the best. It's hard to explain to a non-believer. The closest a non-believer may grasp it is if you think of "positve thinking"....but even that doesn't seem to really equate. I guess it depends on how we think of it. It's true in a way. If you believe God is in you. No words need to be uttered...no need to specify what you want. He knows.

Gee, I didn't know you'd go all out defensive about my statement. With the way you're carrying on, you'd think I hit a nerve or the nail or something.... So anyway, I've asked twice already what is it about prayers you want to discuss. Obviously you posted that link for a reason. I'm trying to comply.

First of all the Eucharist is a "Christian" rite and is practiced by all denominations, not exclusively Catholic. Second Communion was not presented as a symbolic reference to God. Jesus told His disciples to eat bread and drink wine as a symbolic reference to His body and his blood. That is a form of symbolic cannibalism. All the rest of your response is nonsense goblty gook. Your statement is a form of symbolic intelligence. Since you are not a believer, of course you wouldn't understand. Somehow this "interpretation" reminds me of someone who once mocked: The Bible said, we are made into the image of God. Therefore I am God.

Here we part company. Once the unexplainable "kick start" occurred, I believe that evolution explains almost everything that you'd be looking for. That would be a good topic for another thread. But there is good evidence from the scientific community that the theory of evolution is fatally flawed. A lot of scientists have abandoned it as a satisfactory theory...mostly by the lack of fossil evidence that was required to substantiate the theory. Even according to Darwin himself. Darwin stated that without the fossil evidence his theory would crumble. And he was convinced this fossil evidence would be found. It hasn't been found. Furthermore the theory of biogenesis has been accepted - that life can only come from life. In a desperate effort to reconcile the theories of evolution and biogenesis, some scientists have even gone so far as to suggest that life began on earth from spores floating in from outer space. Perhaps they've been reading too many 1950's sci-fi novels.

Here's another article on Patterson. "Dr. Patterson, whose specialty is paleoclimatology, is well aware that his views on climate change place him in a minority within the scientific community. But if he’s feeling the heat, he doesn’t show it. “As a scientist I can only go where the science takes me, and not where someone like David Suzuki wants me to go.” When he does get criticized, it’s rarely about the science, he says, but rather is an “ad hominem attack of some sort, like ‘Patterson’s in the pocket of Big Oil.’ Well I wish!” In any event, science is not a popularity contest, he points out, and the general consensus is not always right. He cites the example of continental drift, a concept laughed at by most scientists until distinguished Canadian geophysicist J. Tuzo Wilson championed the cause in the 1960s. A more recent example from the 1980s was the theory, considered preposterous by the medical establishment at the time, that bacteria might be the cause of peptic ulcers. Australian physician Barry Marshall, who proposed the idea, was eventually proven right, and he and colleague Robin Warren last year won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their efforts. Of course, there are many other examples of scientists who bucked the trend and turned out to be wrong. Asked if he has any doubts, Dr. Patterson replies, “Sure I could be wrong … but I don’t think so.” Dr. Patterson may take comfort in the fact he’s not entirely alone in his views. A number of colleagues share his position, including Fred Michel at Carleton, and Jan Veizer and Ian Clark at the University of Ottawa, among others. “At these [two] institutions, climate researchers who agree with my perspective on climate change actually outnumber the alarmists,” he says. What these scientists essentially agree on is that the Kyoto Protocol is pointless because carbon dioxide emissions are not driving climate change. The computer models are simply wrong and do not match actual observations. Instead, Dr. Patterson points to solar variability – changes in the sun’s solar cycle – as the likely culprit. The sun experiences an 11-year sunspot cycle as well as much longer cycles of solar activity, and these trends in the sun’s output correlate well with temperature records dating back hundreds of years, he says. Asked how the scientific community, the media and Al Gore could get the story so wrong, Dr. Patterson says it’s mainly because the debate has become so politicized. Environmental activists have taken what should be rational scientific debates and turned them into occasions for “evangelizing and antagonizing,” even though “they don’t really know what they’re talking about.” Some climate skeptics, fearing the public backlash or damage to their scientific reputations, decide to keep their views to themselves, says Dr. Patterson. Others, notably scientists working for federal agencies, were effectively muzzled under “previous regimes,” he says." http://www.universityaffairs.ca/issues/200...rarians_02.html

Imagine that... a post about religion in the "Moral & Religious" forum. If you don't want to read posts about religion, might I suggest the Federal Politics forum? I know. But it is the way you start out with this various topics....and yet, the direction of the discussion always end up with your vehement opinion of people who still wish to practice their religion. Your topics seem to be vehicles for bashing religious people and the religion they believe in. If you are not an atheist, I might've suspected you are trying to convert people to your own religion. So before we get side-tracked again....what is it you want to know about prayers?