betsy

??? On the contrary, Christians are the ones who do follow the rules of Christ. Those who say they are Christians, and yet do not follow the rules and teachings of Christ, are not true christians. I'd given the child-raping clergy as an example of the latter. It is a religion, with rules and teachings that came directly from Christ. This religion is founded by Christ! It is not for me to give admission passes to be identified as a Christian. I'm just stating the fact that there are rules and requirements to be identified as a Christan. Of course, why wouldn't it be successful considering from whom it came? After all, God knows what's best for His people.....although we usually do not see it the way He does. No one is stopping or forbidding you to follow which philosophy you wish to pick out from the teachings of Christ. Jesus Christ said He is the Son of God. He performed miracles. He prophesied His death and Resurrection. He died and He Resurrected. He talked about His second Coming....His Kingdom on earth. He talked about eternal life. In fact, that's why He came to die for us....to give us a chance at eternal life. You say you don't believe those. That they aren'ttrue. So, aren't you saying He was a liar? If you believe Him to be a liar....why'd you even consider any of His philosophies? You said you like His Golden Rule....well, there are other philosophies quite similar to the Golden Rule. If I'm not mistaken, Confuscious said something similar....so why not be a Confucian instead? You don't have to deal with the supernatural. I din't mean you personally. But would one be comfy with that word, "special" christian? Of course, from a true Christian's point of view.....referring to one's self as "special" - raising one's self above the others, with a ring of "mockery" towards those who do believe in everything Christ said, is not exactly in-line with Christ's philosophy.

Using huge fonts might give you a perception of truth to what you say....but, that ain't so. You must still be able to back up your statement. Huge fonts denotes CONFIDENCE in the statement being posted, among other things. It means the poster can go head-to-head defending that ground! Backing it up with something credible other than pure spit! So far, you're just repeating your personal opinion.....and like your personal on the history of western civilization, it's far from being accurate. Speaking of Mithraism, here's a curious note from a group that call itself the Ontario Consultants for Religious Tolerance. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm As for the actual day of Sabbath it's supposed to be Saturday if you follow the statutes given to the Jews. As for the actual date for Christmas and Death and Resurrection....yeah, those are said to be inaccurate. One explanation why some Christian holidays coincide with pagan celebrations was due to the persecutions of Christians in those days, and to sort of make the transition easier for the pagan converts. The New Testament discourages Christians from squabbling about small details. What's important is the faith and following the gospel. A mystery? BINGO! See what I mean? If it's a mystery to you....therefore, you don't know diddly squat! Just read what you've stated again. You practically admit you're arguing about something you don't know! And speak for yourself....don't try to wrangle me along with you. I KNOW THE BIBLE IS TRUE! And I've been proving it all along....with you nothing to contradict what's been offered as proof so far! So never mind your attempt to get me in the same leaky boat you sit on. I KNOW...and YOU DON'T. You've just stated that as a fact! Your statement is full of "seems....and maybes" You say it's still a mystery! You say you don't know! Then how come you've already come up with your "conclusion?" What's your "conclusion" based upon? In huge fonts to boot!

You mean you don't like the response? Did you read the whole article? Why don't you cite your source, and maybe we can discuss?

Are you comfy being decribed as "special?" Think it over. Being called "special" these days is a liberal humane way of calling someone who's "gifted".....and I don't mean being gifted in the sense that they're clairvoyant or psychic. You know....like the school for "special" children.... hey, nothing wrong with "special" children, don't get me wrong.

A lot of Christians are philosophical. Quite so. One good example is the best friend of your buddy, Dawkins. WILLIAM LANE CRAIG.

The aanalogy is not the same. The term Christian is not being associated with a place of origin. The ancestors of Quebeckers came from France - hence, the Fench Connection. The term Christian is a description of someone who follows the religion founded by Christ. It is more than just a philosophy. The "philosophy" of Christ is actually His explanations of the terms on how a person - His follower - can have eternal life. His way of simplifying the "rules." If one admires only the philosophy of Christ, then why not just say it so? I like His philosophy! Not only would that eliminate confusion, but also saves him from embarassment. Just imagine when he starts explaining that.... "No, no,no....I am a Christian BUT I do not buy the part when Jesus said He is the Son of God, and that He died and Resurrected. I also think that He was only scamming His followers when He did those magic tricks....etc.., For really, how can one even believe anything coming from someone he actually think is a liar?

Some of those "flavours" of Christianity do not follow the teachings of Christ. Like those cults who commit mass murders or those clergy who rape children. So as I said, one can insist to call themselves "Christians," but that doesn't make them so. An "option?" Because they insist on calling themselves Christians? If I insist to give myself the title of "Queen," and refer to myself as Her Royal Highness Queen Betsy.... Are you saying I've got that option? Do I really have that option? More likely everyone will call me Delusional before anyone would call me by my preferred title! If you've heard people referred to as Hegelian...perhaps in some creative writing (which means their philosophy).........but not common use.

But Shakespeare is a writer. He didn't found a religion. "Christian" is a member of a religion founded by Jesus Christ. Unless you become a "member" of the Christian religion - meaning that you believe in all the teachings and revelations by Christ - that includes belief in His Father and the divinity/diety of Jesus. Do you believe that God created everything, that Jesus is the Son of God, had performed all the miracles described in the Bible, believe that He died for us, believe in His Resurrection and His second coming?

Cite.

Giant fonts aside, considering that you claim to be a Christian just like me....can you explain why you're so against me in all my posts about religion - particularly on Creation?

So Canadien, I did a little "investigating" here just so to be fair speculating about you. You invoked and say you believed the Apostle's Creed. You say you're a Catholic. So here's the Catholic's Apostle's Creed. THE APOSTLE'S CREED I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen. Of course you do know that Christians believe in evolution. But not the Neo-Darwinist evolution. That you believe that God is the CREATOR of HEAVEN and EARTH - heaven would mean everything out there - but you also believe evolution in the grand scale......then I think it only logical to conclude that you are a proponent of Intelligent Design. With uncompromising emphasis that everything was Designed by the Christian God!

Pertaining to your first paragraph: Uh....pardon me for raising my eyebrow reading your claims, but you did practically butcher the history of the western civilization in your lengthy post in another thread. I gave you a rebutt and pointed out where you got that histroy wrong. They were not few. Therefore it's just understandable to take what you claim with a mega-bag of salt. Can you cite a reputable source to back you up? Give a cite to this one. They knew that he would return while they were still alive??? Really? Well I don't know what so-called "bible" you're reading from (or which bible "winger" you've got that from)....but according to the Christian Bible, the Apostles didn't really comprehend what Christ meant when He was referring to His upcoming His death and Resurrection. They believed just like the Jews did....that a Messaiah would come, and that's it! The early Christians believed that Christ is the Messaiah. But that's all they understood. So when Jesus prophesied about His own death and Resurrection....that was going over their heads! Furthermore, you talk about the Bible in your statement above. If it's true that the Apostles never wrote anything from the beginning...so what? Do you think they should've been like the paparazzi following Jesus around documenting everything as they unfolded, or like the late-model modern day secretary who observed and jotted down everything that was done or said using shorthand method? So you say the early Christians never wrote down anything. Well actually, they wrote down a lot of things AFTER His death. Luke, the Historian among the group, went out to interview people of what they've witnessed. Anyway, since you talk about the Bible with seeming authority...What did you think happened after Jesus rose from the dead? Do you know what Pentecost means? Of course you don't. Well I'm not talking about the Catholic Bible. I read King James or NIV. Ask Canadien. He claims to be a christian....and a Catholic.

The following article is such a long detailed read. I just quoted the end part. Excerpt from article: Was the New Testament Influenced by Pagan Religions? By Ronal Nash Christian Research Institute http://www.equip.org/articles/was-the-new-testament-influenced-by-pagan-religions-

Amen.

Allow? Who can allow? It is not for me to "allow" anyone to identify himself as a Christian. I'm just stating a fact. Based on the teachings of Christ through the Apostles....and based on logic.

Of course it is. There are certain requirements that must be met to be called a Christian....just like there are certain requirements that must be met to be called a lawyer. Is Chess still the game of chess if one wants to play it but refuses to use a queen....or wants to change the l-shape movement of the horse? Is baseball still the game of baseball when one refuses to use a bat, and instead uses his hand to strike the ball? There are rules. Of course, one can insist on identifying themselves as "lawyers"....but that doesn't necessarily mean that they truly are. Even "doctors" who carry their charade too far by actually seeing and diagnosing patients for real end up in hot water.

That goes for the smileys too! With regrets. Boy, you do whine about a lot of things....

Well, your polite request had been politely turned down. And the reasons were explained. The most important of which is....certain posters here seem to have poor eyesight.They seem to skip some important points being made in the discussion(s). So in a way, I'm also trying to do them a favor. That you still harp about it though, moves it beyond just mere "request." And fyi, using all capitals is shouting in internet etiquette. And speaking of etiquette and schoolyard behaviour coming from mostly all new atheists actively barking on this forum.....need I say more?

Although I agree with you that Christianity is a religion, apparently not everyone who identifies themselves as christians are performing a religious act....at least, that's being argued by M Hardner. I guess there are Christians.....and then, there are pseudo-christians.

If someone reads textbooks on law, but never actually took law or pass the bar....do you call him a lawyer?

Oh okay. So they just like the philosphy of Christ. I thought you're saying that they can still be considered Christians.

There are rules to off-topic discussions. But there are no rules against font sizes. There are just those who'd like to dictate how we should do things - from what we should and shouldn't drink to what we shouldn't eat to how we should write in a forum. It's not the font sizes that really bothers some of these whiners, but rather the fact that they have nothing else to rebutt. And if the font sizes indeed bother you guys....well boo-hoo-hoo. Stop whining like a 4-year old and learn that not everybody are lemmings like you....or peas that cuddle in the security of your same cozy pod. Some want to do things differently. Some want to have their own style. A lot of 12 year olds actually do. So, wipe those teary eyes and snotty noses. I'm used to toddlers and pre-schoolers, so your tantrums don't work on me.

Believe their accounts about the birth and death of Christ. The Pentecost, the miracles, His resurrection....His diety. That they were personally appointed - and taught by Jesus Himself. And yet not believe their "interpretations" of the teachings? How can that be? Yes, the Apostles did the writing. But if you believe their accounts, therefore you must believe "their interpretations" - which according to their account comes from the Holy Spirit/Christ.

Moved from the topic, The Bible. No, I am not the judge. But you brought up this issue. As I've said, you strongly come across as agnostic or atheist by your own arguments with me in practically every topics I've posted about religion. And your accusation that "CREATIONISM IS A FRAUD." You corrected me about my "misconception" of you, and you claim you are a Christian. Since you seem so hostile against those who believe in Creation(to the point where you seem to be so well in-tuned and comfortable with the new atheists in this forum who'd been ridiculing the Bible, and you don't seem to believe that God created....or designed everything, therefore I ask you to explain why you think you are a Christian? It's just as simple as that. You brought in a contradictory statement - bolstered by your attitude and views which appear to be in-line with the new atheists on this board. That statement declaring yourself to be a Christian came like a lightning bolt! It does requires an explanation....unless of course, that statement was said...out of confusion, maybe? You are not sure where you stand that's why you do not wish to elaborate on it? You cannot explain your position because they're clashing against one another and they cannot be reconciled, perhaps? I don't know. I can only speculate that you're confused.

This is a topic that I created for discussion about the Bible. We both stumbled onto another issue - being a Christian - which opens up a great opportunity for more in depth discussion. Our discussion as to the meaning of being a christian does not belong here. Should you wish to continue the discussion, kindly go to the topic "What is a Christian." After all, it is this very discussion that we've stumbled onto that's been the inspiration for that topic. I ask that out of courtesy and respect - not only to the BIBLE to which this topic is reserved for - but to Mapleleaf Forum and all its members, to please help keep our discussions organized. The board has its rules. Surely, as you are not an ignorant person, you don't think a moderator is needed to settle this. Thank you for your cooperation.