betsy

I'll have to read it tonight. Gotta go to work.

That's true. Why are minors treated so differently than adults - because they've not achieved the full capacity that of an adult.

Canadien, Let me get this straight. I don't think you ever did confirm and I just assumed it. So, for the record: Do you support Intelligent Design?

I'm sorry Kimmy. My responses to you got so carried away too. Let's blame it on Canadien?

Dre, I'm so sorry if I got carried away with my response. I realized I've written some really awful things....I'll try to rectify them.

True. We shouldn't state any falsehoods. That's why when I post facts in The Bible, I make sure that's what they are. Facts. Science - knowledge - is given by God. Agree or disagree?

Follow the trail. Kimmy knows what I mean.

We've dealt with Lot's wife. Like I asked: what does it mean that she turned into a pillar of salt? Did she turn completely into salt? Half-salt? Was she encased in salt? You're implying about the "creation" of salt? And I surmised, have you experienced living near salt water? Experienced how at the end of the day, you can feel fine grits of salt on your skin and hair? Anyhow....we'll never find out about her. If that part of Genesis is indeed literal...she's melted a long time ago! "Supposing".....another word for, if. Even if it were true, how do you know that God required an "immense amount of energy" to gather the salt molecules from miles around? Therefore, you're contradicting "a finished creation." No. You're claiming the Bible contradicts the facts by using suppositions. Lot's wife. Noah's ark. Mt. Ararat. Eve. Kimmy....Kimmy....Kimmy...read your statement again: See that boldened, "IF?" They're all suppositions! Furthermore, to suggest that God - who's supposed to be the supreme Being and Creator of all things - to be "constrained".... The quicksand's already up to your eyeballs....and you got me to "concede." How can you? You could hardly talk....much more talk your way out of your predicament now! There's been a lot of surmising. I also said that perhaps the animals were eggs and babies so they could fit in the ark! That's a supposition! You think you're the only ones allowed to give suppositions? You find it "hollow" because since you know I'm a Christian....you've got me neatly "profiled" in your mind? That therefore, I must believe that earth is only a few thousands years old.... I might've been ranting to Canadien but definitely not to say that all of Genesis is literal. I've already stated my position way back, several times....that I don't believe in a young earth! So, if I don't believe in a young earth....what kind of logic makes you think I consider everything in Genesis as literal? Anyway, cite that quote you're talking about and give the link. Let's see what I've stated, exactly. No. Not everything is allegorical! Like I said, some are also literal. I've been upfront saying that my views may change, depending on future discoveries! Like in Noah's Ark! Right now I think it's allegorical. Hey, who knows maybe tomorrow they'll find evidence that it's not, after all, allegorical! I go where the evidences lead. I've been saying all along, I believe that science is a tool of God. Anyway, what's wrong with having Dr Craig to support my arguments? You don't have any problems believing and spitting out the views of Dawkins, right? Well, my Dr Craig whomps your Mr. Dawkins. That is if he can find Dawkins at all!

I've listened to a pastor who just came back after 25 years in Istanbul, and he related to us the things that are happening in Turkey....that's not being talked about in the media (lest they offend some people). Christian missionaries managed to get around the laws of Turkey and have been converting successfully. Not too long ago, I didn't get the exact details - it's about call-in station - the Gospel's been broadcasted in the airwave for at least 2 hours. There are now 200+ "churches" in Turkey. Recently in the news, Turkey (wanting to be accepted in the global community) gave back lands they've confiscated from Christians.

Yes, Christians do those.....even simple tasks as helping your neighbor in anyway when he is sick, or consoling someone who's going through the difficult time of grief,....or praying for someone. It is not how much money or time you give.....it is what is in your heart. The sincerity and genuine caring for your fellowmen. If you give to charity so you can brag about it or receive recognition for it, it doesn't count. You've already received your reward for it - through the worldly recognition that you sought. BUT, let's not forget the foremost duty of a Christian: To spread the Gospel, and to make disciples by teaching all people what He taught His followers.

Now, let's go back to this statement you made: Well....well....well.....after all the song-and-dance by Dre...... What exactly are those attributes you're referring to that this Entity have? You can squirm and flip and flop....but my, I've got you hooked! Though it's taking so painstakingly slow, Dre....looks like it's you who's starting to come around.

Ha-ha-ha ha-ha-ha ROFL ha-ha-ha And what do you call that Entity? Put yourself in the tail of the guppy. If you're in that fish tank and there's nowhere to get any food except the food that drops from above - like manna from guppy heaven - wouldn't you associate life-giving food to the mysterious creatures moving around on the other side of the glass? A foolishly stubborn guppy may not call that mysterious creature, God. It may instead call Him, the Entity...... ...but really, what's in a name if it smacks of basically the same thing? Does calling a cat, a feline, makes her a non-cat? Remember, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck.... ...so what's with all this, "Entity?" You're not fooling anyone. You might as well refer to Him as the Intelligent Designer. Or better yet, God. Anyway I don't think a lot of humans I know, would compare their thinking to that of a guppy!

Holy mackerel, I didn't know there's this! I missed this string, guys. Dre, I could kiss you! You're truly another gift that keeps on giving. Oh boy. Remember that statement very well, Dre. It'll come back and slam you later. Big time. Ehhh? You've been dozing all this time? What do you think I'm selling with Intelligent Design? Why do I say "science is a tool being used by God?" What do you think this statement - Christians can go where the scientific evidence leads them - means? What is it about you atheists that have this comprehension-impairment, technical brain problems processing data, and poor eyesight? Speaking of evolution, as a disciple of Neo-Darwinism, you should be in big panic mode by now - because you are devolving - degenerating towards certain extinction! With those kinds of serious malfunctions, how do you expect to last? I don't think anyone who's bold enough to throw the gauntlet repeatedly with a challenge to try to contradict is anything but afraid! I don't think anyone who keeps shaking the tree that results in a commotion of noisy, chattering monkeys is anything but afraid. Actually, it's the monkeys who seem so nervously agitated!

Phoooey! All you do is blab. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? If you don't agree with the 55 listed facts - then contradict them! Individually, and specifically! However, you do need to support your contradictions with facts! From credible sources. You can keep giving your adhominems, your straw men, your interpretations and your views, but keep in mind personal opinion are taken with a mega bag of salt.

No. You couldn't be a Christian because of your own stance on issues. 1. Even after the fact of explaining to you why I have to use science to prove the Bible is the Word of God - because I'm debating with atheists and skeptics, who wouldn't, understandably, just take my words based merely on faith - you still took on the position to try to bust and negate the listed facts in The Bible. You ignore that completely. It is so surprising to see that the most rabid and hostile voice comes from someone claiming to be a Christian. 2. Your claim that presenting science supports the Bible is "blasphemous." Blasphemous towards who? Towards the godly scientists who presented you with the theory of evolution??? 3. You're right there like a shadow on practically every fact that is being listed - ever vigilant to attack it. I did a latest recap of all the 55 listed facts. Here's your response: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=1125 If there is anyone who's committing such hair-raising blasphemy - it comes from the christian who tries his darndest to show that the Bible is nothing more than a "history" book written by outdated, simple-minded people who should just be regarded as fiction writers! In other words, this "christian" is saying the Bible IS NOT the Word of God. And he's doing exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to do: to try to debunk every fact that is listed. So, why do you act so surprised that I look at you as an "enemy" of my God? 4. Science was given by God as a tool to let us know what He wants us to know, at His own convenience, following His own plan, His own time-line! You have a problem with that. Your indignation seems to be more because I have the audacity to say so....that somehow, I am being disrespectful to science! That's why I ask you several times: who is your god? The Christian God....or science. 5. You say creatinism is a fraud. You say you believe in evolution. Yet, you don't support Intelligent Design - at least that's the message I'm getting from you. Even though I've given an article that explains where Intelligent Designers stand. To Intelligent Designers, evolution is not off the table. They go where the evidence leads them. Let me repeat that.... They go where evidence - scientific evidence - leads them! Isn't that supposed to be compatible about your reasoning? Shouldn't you go where scientific evidence leads you? If you don't require the necessity of scientific evidence in your belief on evolution - doesn't that mean your belief in evolution is therefore based entirely on faith? Let me repeat that: If you don't require the necessity of scientific evidence in your belief on evolution - doesn't that mean your belief in evolution is therefore based entirely on faith? YOU BECOME JUST LIKE THE ATHEISTS DIGGING IN THEIR HEELS, CLINGING TO THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION - DESPITE LACK OF ANY COMPELLING EVIDENCE(S) - BECAUSE THEY FIGHT FOR THEIR FAITH! 6. William Craig said it so, too. Christians can go where the evidence leads them. He went on further to hypothesize that if evolution is true, it would've had to be a miracle! A proof of God's existence! I posted this fact in The Bible. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=1125 #55. FACT: "The special creationist's picture of the world's formation is not a necessary component of Christian belief." What was your attack-response to that? http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18914&st=1125How well you wave the flag for the atheists! Even though science has not proven the non-existence of God, atheists are sensible because they said "special creationism" is non-sense. Like as if atheists will ever say it isn't non-sense! Do you blame me if I look at you as an atheist posing as a christian? A wolf in a very skimpy sheep's clothing? Christ warns us of that in the New Testament. He warns us of those who use His name to lead others astray. I don't know what's in your heart. Your intentions may well be good - but your method is coming across the wrong way - very much against the Bible? Perhaps you do need another self-analysis, not if you are a new atheist. This time ask yourself honestly if you are truly what you claim to be: a Christian. God be with you and bless you. And this is not a sarcasm.

I believe the parable is true. Not that there is anything wrong with wealth....but how one looks at it. Who is your master? It is far harder for a wealthy person to follow the teachings of Christ. How many times do we hear about wealthy people so consumed with greed that what they have is never enough! They have to acquire more.... A wealthy person can so be consumed by the security his wealth brings, become so confident that he forgets from whom all that he has comes from. Also, wealth can offer so many distractions. It is easier for a financially-struggling person to remember God, to humble himself before Him - reaffirm his dependence and placing his trust in God - and accept that all His will be done. We tend to call on God when we are suffering....and we can easily forget Him when everything is "smooth-sailing." Here is a bible study note on the parable. Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/3873/Parable-of-Rich-Young-Man.htm#ixzz1WvipCiGf

Hoooooo.... Nutshell, my foot! You didn't "nutshell" the word, adhominem, from the other topic, What is a new atheist?" http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=19376&st=135 You couldn't even deal with the simple "nutshell" of Eve....and here you are claiming to "nutshell" this! Well, apparently not...... according to Canadien! Canadien does not agree with Craig! Canadien is arguing with his own argument! Canadien's pov vs Canadien's pov! Go figure. Ooooops, I guess you couldn't possibly figure that one....what more, "nutshell" it either.

Deal with this first, Kimmy. No, it is you who's missing the whole point. I've already gone through with suppositions. Now - supposition or not - regarding your issue with the creation of Eve.... Answer this simple question. When was Eve created? Before or after Creation was finished?

Fair enough. Well, since you're here now anyway, and you've spent time looking up three (3) articles - precious time wasted btw, since they did squat with what's being discussed here - obviously you now have time to answer the question in The Bible. So, how about it? Can you stop nextdoor? And before you go, give your definition of adhominem? Please? Can I give you a little advice seeing that you don't have enough time to waste? Deal with the issues directly, my dear. Don't waste time going off on a merry-go-round.

Oh boy.... Believers are forced to accept evolution as the truth in school! So there! Anyways, let's directly address Dre's argument, shall we? Where? Where's the religious mob out to harm non-believers? I'm visualizing pitchforked-armed villagers hunting down hiding atheists! I'm visualizing atheists keeping their mouth shut about their belief. Well the last time I checked, Dawkins is as big-mouthed as ever! Of course he's also in hiding - but not from a mob! He's hiding from our Van Helsing! Which is only one person! Not an angry mob! Anyway, Dawkins created his own monster! His own big-mouth! And the last time I checked, atheists even took out ads not only to flaunt their belief, but to publicly negate all gods and religions! Mob indeed. In some parts of the world, it's much dangerous to be a Christian than an atheist or secularist! All the drama....

Are we suffering from selective memory loss now? It's not like as if you and I have been recently involved in several arguments - that you would lose track which ones I meant! The last recent bout we've had was at the topic, The Bible! Does that sounds familiar to you? <hint-hint> contradiction of a fact? Does that ring a bell? <another clue> Barbeque ribs?

Never mind the merry-go-round. Just state what to you is the definition of adhominem.

I'm not asking you to give the definition. I already know you don't know from squat! I'm so positive about that! Just by your own post I'm quoting above - it's the very rope you've strung around neatly on your neck! Be a good boy. Settle down. Don't interrupt. I'm hunting down Kimmy!

Hello, Kimmy? Yooooo-hooooooo <from a cheesy B-movie> Hello? Is anybody there? Hellooooo? maybe...gone hiding again?