betsy

yada-yada-yada. There you go chasing your tail again. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Getting desperate? What religious people think about contraceptives is not the issue. We're talking abortion. Besides what are you on about? What is the best - and the surest - form of contraception? Isn't it celibacy? So how can you say we are against contraception and birth control?

I guess you can say the same thing to people who are in vegetative state. To senile seniors. To mentally retarded people. To a toddler. See how easy it is for this to go slipping down the slippery slope? All it takes is someone thinking like Blackdog. And some others here who will no doubt second his motion. Lots a lemmings. I rest my case.

Bingo! That's what re-opening the debate is all about.

Actually, it is you - and those who use the mantra "sovereignty of woman's body" - who are contradicting yourselves. With the exception of rape, the very fact that you guys claim the woman has the absolute authority over her own body begs the question, "how did she lets herself get into this pickle?" You say she's supposed to be the authority over her own body. Well? She's gotten herself pregnant, didn't she? She made her choice. Where's responsibility? Accountability? At the least, she should be held accountable for her irresponsible action which causes the torture and death of an innocent. What's the difference between her and a drunk-driver who knowingly drives the car and killing someone in the process?

Who raped her? The baby did not rape her. It was the rapist who stepped on her right when he committed this criminal act against her. The child is just an innocent result of this violation of her rights - which was committed by her rapist. What does society do to rapists??? Don't we punish them for raping? If the raped woman kills this human being - the baby - then she' violating this baby's right just the same way the rapist violated her right! Anyway, you keep bringing up unwanted pregnancy by rape which actually is practically nil. As I've given you the medical advise/procedures for raped victims - I would imagine any unwanted pregnancy as the result of rape is rare. For the simple reason that any woman raped in this modern age of HIV, AIDS, and who knows what else....it will truly be a dim-witted woman who will refuse to run to the nearest clinic after getting raped! Taking that pill before 72 hours surely sounds more convenient than having to go through all the pains of abortion! You didn't answer my question. If you were raped, wouldn't you go see the doctor? Now, show me the statistics of unwanted pregnancies caused by rape. You have to back up your claim. Otherwise you're just spitting out a useless opinion.

I said, the woman's choice had been exercised when she chose to have sex, or unprotected sex (knowing full well what the possible conseqences could be, which may include STD). The baby is just the consequence of the choice that she made. She had choices. She made her choice. The baby did not have any choice at all! Actually I am consistent. My personal view - the fetus being human and deserving of the same rights (human rights issue, remember?) - is the reason why I don't support abortion by rape. It is more so compounded by my religion since to Christians, murder is a grievous sin. Rape victims do not have the choice. Well I do feel sorry for any rape victim, but that should not negate the status of the child. Killing the baby will not negate the rape. It will only mean there will be two victims: the rape victim and the child. I'm all for the state giving the best support for the mother until she delivers, and adopting or taking the child under its wing until adulthood! Btw, here's the suggested precedure for victims of rape: http://www.advocacysupportcenter.com/article-whattodo.asp American Woman, If you were raped, will you followthe advice given above? Will make sure you don't get pregnant?

Of course not. Because to me, a fetus is a human being. He has the right to be protected. All the more so when he has no voice, and is defenseless. I see abortion as murder. me, murder is a grievous sin. FYI, the so-called "sovereignty of a woman's body" was just made-up...there's no such right. She doesn't have the right to shoot up heroin. She doesn't have the right to commit suicide. This so-called "sovereignty of woman's body" was just simply a privilege invented to accomodate abortion. Women's Lib just had a powerful lobby group. And society was reeling with guilt over the mistreatment of women....and "empowered" them I guess as an act of atonement.

Personally no. And this is because of my religious belief.

The courts use experts who can differentiate the difference. It's not uncommon for a criminal to use the "insanity card" to avoid jail term. The court also determines if the criminal is mentally fit to stand trial.

Support for abortion is going down. Surprisingly, according to a news report, more young people joined the last March for Life (2012). They came by the busloads. Stumbling on this new report below, there is hope. Abortion's new debate generational By: Harold Jantz In American Grace, Robert Putnam and David Campbell's survey of how religion influences politics in America, the writers relate that on the question of abortion, approval seems to be trending downward. Young people, they say, "are more ambivalent about abortion than their parents' generation." Even if they would allow for abortions, the circumstances in which abortion might be approved are fewer. Why is that? Part of the reason is simply that today's young people know more. We in Canada know what that is about. Recently, when counsellors within some ethnic communities observed gender selection was happening after pregnancy ultrasounds and more girls than boys were being aborted, they properly sounded a warning. Those were real children being rejected purely on grounds of their gender. We know it is no problem to recognize the gender of the child in the womb. And much more can be known as well. The writers of American Grace pick up an illustration from the Oscar-winning movie Juno in which the central teen character becomes pregnant. She calls an abortion clinic and "cheekily" says, "I would like to procure a hasty abortion." She doesn't follow through with it. The turning point for her comes when she meets a classmate outside the clinic, there to protest what's happening inside. The friend tells Juno the baby already has fingernails. "It has fingernails?" the young mother-to-be asks. She can't erase the thought from her mind and ends up leaving the abortion clinic. The authors of American Grace say many young couples now take ultrasounds of their babies-to-be. "Both of us have had many friends and relatives display ultrasound photos and never once has an expectant mother used the impersonal word 'fetus' to describe what we are seeing. Ultrasounds are pictures of their baby-to-be." It is this knowledge and more that is weakening the support for abortion. More... http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/westview/abortions-new-debate-generational-150274235.html

That article was dated 2005. Here is one that's dated 2011. Opinion: Abortion statistics show reality of a land without restrictions Special to National Post Mar 7, 2011 – 5:01 AM ET | Last Updated: Mar 7, 2011 11:19 AM ET Comments Email Twitter inShare.3.By Anastasia Bowles Abortion is a topic few Canadians want to discuss, and abortion statistics rarely come up around the water cooler. So when an Ontario group, Project for an Ontario Women’s Health Evidence-Based Report (POWER), released a study last week on Ontario abortion rates for 2007, nobody seemed to notice. But they should have. No matter what your position on abortion, the study reveals unsettling facts about abortions in Ontario, and by extension, in Canada. For example, we learn that for every 100 babies born in Ontario, 37 are aborted. The ratio for teens aged 15-19 is even more shocking. For every 100 babies born to Ontario teens, 152 are aborted. The study noted that teens “were by far the most likely of any age group to have an abortion rather than a live birth.” And since it excluded abortions for girls under 15, the teen abortion rate is even higher. It also revealed disturbing data about repeat abortions in Ontario hospitals. As many as 52% of women had one or more previous abortions. Even more disturbing, almost one fifth of teens aged 15-19 said they had already had at least one abortion. The study even cautioned that the percentage of repeat abortions was likely higher due to under-reporting. And that’s just for hospitals. Abortion clinics were excluded from the repeat calculations even though they perform more than half the province’s abortions. And teens don’t need parental consent for clinic abortions (though they may at some hospitals), so more teens may go to clinics. LifeCanada, a national organization educating on the value of human life, has commissioned Environics to poll Canadians annually from 2002-2009. Each year, a large majority, anywhere from 60% to 66%, supported some legal restrictions on abortion. So even though most Canadians don’t know the facts or statistics on abortion, they don’t support the current legal vacuum in Canada. Imagine if they actually knew something about the subject. more... http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/03/07/opinion-abortion-statistics-show-reality-of-a-land-without-restrictions/

Oh the knee-jerks spouting circle that leads to nowhere....

We'll just have to wait and see what will happen.

What about post-partum moms?

That's for the law to decide. Some killers get off lightly with "crimes of passion."

Well I don't know what the outcome of the debate will be....if we do ever get to have one. The restriction on the state to interfere with the choice can drastically change if the fetus is deemed human, deserving of every right as anyone else.

I'm not sure but I think there was a case and the mother sued....I think she won.

You gotta be kidding me! We're talking human rights! I think the normal procedures for rape victims is to get "cleaned out" in the hospital right after rape occurs. This not only prevents unwanted pregnancy but also STD. If you got rape, won't you go see the doctor to make sure you didn't get anything? Well that explains it. You're not on the right page! Here is what I'm on about....

deleted. double posting.

Oh yes there is! If the fetus is established by science to be human, then obviously he got the same rights as that of his mother. Aborting him will violate his right to security of person.

What you guys are saying through all your lame attempts come out loud and clear. You just don't have the guts to say it plainly. You don't care at all if the fetus is human.

1988 was ancient time! We've come a long way since then. Some cases had now come to light - thanks to science and modern tech - there were men who were executed for crimes they didn't commit! Anything settled in 1988 definitely has to be re-opened! Most especially so when it's a matter of life and death. We can't uphold something that could very well be based on ignorance!

I don't know where to put this topic.... This is so disturbing! It's like a beginning scene from a zombie movie.... http://www.kcentv.com/story/18638489/florida-man-eats-a-mans-face