Venandi

I seriously doubt that. Here's a quote worthy of a veteran poster's signature line: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Wait for it...

Pretty oblique IMO... Does that mean it was reasonable to conclude that Ukraine (and Crimea for that matter) are / were somehow not of major strategic importance to Russia and any expectation (before the fact) that there might be pushback is the sole domain of misguided MAGA loons? I'm left wondering what you thought was going to happen here? In the end, I don't see Ukraine winning this and I would suggest that part of the reason for that is the lack of full on commitment from NATO itself. All told, this adventure was something best avoided and I think you're going to be disappointed with how it ends. All I'm suggesting is that for some, your pending disappointment was (sadly) predictable and that the actions (and lack of action) of those not considering the possibility will eventually be seen as contributory. Then again, be assured that I'm rooting for ya... best of luck with it.

OK, I have to ask... considering what appeared to be the push for Ukraine to join NATO: - Do you honestly think that someone who opines that Russia might (maybe / possibly) consider a new entrant to NATO on their southern border to be a threat is amplifying Russian propaganda? Is it possible that a thoughtful grade 6 geography student might pose the same question? He might even join a few dots and ask if Russia would consider the home of the Black Sea Fleet to be something they're loath to relinquish control over. Put another way, are you suggesting that Russia wouldn't see this as a threat, maybe even a provocation? I'd like to know why you think they wouldn't because using your logic, virtually any military member doing the most rudimentary estimate of the situation (EOTS) whilst listening to the news on the drive to work suddenly qualifies as a Russian asset in your mind. -Taken a step further, are you asserting that holding that opinion, or in the case of our grade 6 student, asking questions about the strategic importance of Ukraine and Crimea (to Russia) is an overt display of hatred toward North America in general and democracy in particular? For context, I would have thought all this might be worthy of a moments reflection...

And they will continue to be unsuccessful because there is no alternative (for them) other than "from the river to the sea." They're dedicated to the destruction of the Jewish state and building on the rubble of it. Everyone wants to see a peaceful resolution here... but the real question is pretty simple, and 43 pages in, it remains unaddressed, unasked and unresolved... how do you propose to negotiate with that murderous neighbour and are you even willing to negotiate after they killed your dog, burnt a portion of your house down and left your wife with permanent breathing problems due to smoke inhalation. Veterans of those missions, and people who have spent years there are all going to ask you the exact same question. If you don't have an answer, if you can't conjure up a viable solution that changes Hamas ideology in a manner that allows them to remain intact as a functioning entity and partner in the pursuit of peace, then you can expect to see the continuation of the total commitment to systematically dismantle them an entity capable of inflicting further harm.

Those who have done multiple tours in the area (UNEF, UNDOF, UNTSO, UNIFIL, MFO) and trained extensively with the IDF have an observation and a simple question: The observation is: Hamas isn't a political entity with political objectives that are subject to negotiation. It's a religious entity with religious objectives and those objectives are doctrinal in nature and non-negotiable. The question is: in view of that, how would you negotiate with Hamas? It's an important question and one rarely answered by people who can't get through Christmas dinner with their in-laws. Put another way, how do you negotiate with the murderous neighbour next door who just got out of jail for fire bombing your house and poisoning your dog because you happen to be Jewish (even though you've never left Canada and vote NDP). Like it or not, the absence of a credible answer leaves no alternative but pursuing the present course.

That's just nonsense... read this twice: More to the point: - are you advocating for the immediate admission of Ukraine into NATO? and - do you seriously think that those who pragmatically urge an abundance of caution here are Putin supporters because of it?

I was just thinking the exact same thing. That's not working out quite as well as you think. An acknowledgement of reality and the first tentative flicker of possible recovery... Immediately shattered by the symptoms of full relapse. OK, now I'm done....

I fear that when added to the list of other lunacies (that now require attention) the summation amount is daunting... the concept of multiple independent inputs combining to trigger an unintended (but largely predictable) consequence has been ignored for too long. I think you're right... I'm not sure we can actually fix this now. I doubt the conservatives are conservative enough given the repair time available... by way of comparison (and IMO of course), I'm now confident that places like Germany have let things go too far. Like global warming, and the (now obvious) resource drain that comes with mass immigration, the definition of too long (and too much) quickly becomes a function of resources needed vs resources available, the effort (tempo) required to address/correct negative effects, and time available to do that vs the ETA to PNR. Normally that would be part of any assessment process prior to selecting a course of action and it would be monitored and adjusted as required.... we didn't do that. Too often the need for action only becomes apparent when people get hurt, or more accurately perhaps, when it becomes obvious to the people who created the mess that their efforts have resulted in measurable harm. Ignoring the threat posed by radical Islam is easy to do until the effect of demographic concentrations reaches a tipping point. Beyond that, support can be maintained briefly with the selective use of ridicule but there comes a point where that no longer works. My concern is the draconian effect of the inevitable backlash and the knowledge that it could have been avoided with a sprinkle of common sense, caution, and moderation.

Cool, take your shoes off and sign the waiver....

Like yes... totally. Like I can see how that's really "really important" like. Like back in high school important like. Avoid disappointing old girlfriends who thought that sh&t was defiant and brave back in the 70's... skip the reunion. Better yet, stay in the basement and expend lots of time (and bandwidth) convincing me how little you care.

Ok... you know that just makes the Guffaw BS worse right? Are you and Herb twins?

Now look what you've done... Fear not... relapse is often part of the recovery process.

Does this have to be on every post on every thread... WTF is wrong with you.

Best of luck with your own take then, I'm rooting for ya. I didn't say poor places... I said bad places and what I really meant was really bad places. Big difference. I see that. That one actually made me laugh... thanks, it's been one of those days. I was taking about soldiers in foreign lands, for some, those items were (and probably still are) a small part of being part of a small club. BTW, the watch had to be a Submariner, somehow the Yacht Master didn't make the cut. In the 70's it was the Seiko Diver... so ya, things change eh? As to right wing ideology, the earth shifted under my feet, suddenly the liberal values of old (the ones I used to get ridiculed for) became the RW rhetoric of today. I turned 19 on a FOB in a foreign desert... my views haven't changed much over the years but the terrain, weather and opposing forces certainly have.

Or maybe we were moderate, careful and avoided stratospheric levels of madness like we've see in the US. The election result certainly wasn't a surprise IMO but it doesn't mean that Americans are anti-refugee, and they aren't anti- immigration either... they're anti-insanity, it's that pushback (on a number of fronts BTW) that created the election result. I'm suggesting that all ya had to do was not be bat sh%t crazy. What happened to trigger that result didn't have to happen, it shouldn't have happened, it happened illegally and what's going to happen next (as a direct result of that) should never have needed to happen at all. Now a lot of people are going to get hurt in an effort to fix that which should never (and I mean ^%$#@*& NEVER) been deliberately broken in the first place. My question is "what did you think was going to happen?" A common argument with people who have never left the vacation circuit, and I don't mean that in a mean way either. It's just that I'm constantly amazed at how many well travelled people I've talked to have never seen "the bad side of town" (so to speak). My barber is Muslim and she's lovely... none the less, it makes a weak argument for importing ancient grievances that predate confederation whilst expecting our clean, crisp, Canadian air to make all of that animosity go away. The number of people who go parasailing in the Maldives and return with a profound understanding of Islam actually scares me. Jews and Palestinians would band together to fight space aliens too. And nothing unites adversarial War Lords amore than their collective hatred of foreign white guys with Oakley sunglasses, Rolex watches, and Randall Made Model 1 knives. Moving forward, I predict you will find Muslims far less easy to trample underfoot than Christians are. That demographic concentration thing I mentioned earlier is going to surprise a lot of well meaning liberals when it reaches critical mass, and it's not just here. In 50 years Germany may be a predominantly Muslim country. In fact, some end time prophesy (if you're into such things) now hinges on that being the case. Anyway, some food for thought I guess... it's stopped raining now and I have run. Cheers

Colour has nothing to do with the concept I described, it's irrelevant and makes a poor argument. Lots of examples of people with the same ethnicity battling each other under different (but similar) situations. Those situations and motivations are always different, but human nature remains constant whether it's water rights, cattle stealing or whatever. That's what makes it predictable. Perhaps the reason people feel duped is that they thought (or believed) that Canada was different (magical somehow) and that we could do multiculturalism right... meaning in a non hateful manner. In the final analysis I don't think we did, and in the process of doing it wrong we turned those parents you referred to against their neighbours; It was unnecessary and profoundly counter productive IMO. Overtly "pressuring" (if you prefer that to the notion of forcing) people to conform to values they don't hold causes them to reject values they would have otherwise tolerated. That's the point I think, that's what we're seeing happen now. It's one of those situations easily avoided IMO, all you had to do was nothing. Take the win... what's wrong with yes as an answer? I don't think history is going to be kind...

I now reluctantly agree. I wonder if most people simply associate(d) multiculturalism with innocuous cultural activities like ethnic food, national celebrations, traditions, religious diversity, etc. That sort of diversity is fine (at least with me) but there remains the element of human nature and all of the unanticipated consequences that accompany it. Those warts can be seen right here. The world over, it seems when demographic concentrations become a little too concentrated, previously (I'll say) oppressed people invariably demand the conformation of others, and they DEMAND it to a level that goes beyond (usually way beyond) the very notion of tolerance and peaceful coexistence they themselves initially advocated for. Frankly, that's how I got sucked into defending such things as transgender rights... I thought they just wanted to live their lives in peace and not be molested, judged, or discriminated against. Surely any sensible person with an ounce of compassion would support such things. But (BUT)... things like drag queen story time (in school settings for young children), trying to force private religious schools (say catholic) to fly pride flags, and invading women's sports with uncut male athletes who happen to feel like women are clear examples of too much being too much. And perversely, it's starkly at odds with their own original premise of freedom and acceptance; it begs the well deserved pushback it's getting now. Expect more... In short, and IMO of course, compassionate Canadiens who initially supported this stuff now feel duped by it; it's as if their good nature has been taken advantage of and crafted into a bludgeon to beat them over the head with.... and after the beating, they get smelly cheese rubbed in their face for daring to object to the bludgeoning. Ridiculing these folks at this juncture no longer works, it's actually the very definition of counter productive. The reason it doesn't work is because they aren't, they never were, and the trolls doing the name calling damn well know it. Like a bad house guest, THEY took advantage of the kindness, generosity and good nature offered to them. I think it was ill advised; but it no longer matters... it's over. I want you out of my house, and at this point, nastiness and ridicule will only get your a$$ evicted quicker.

What ever could that possibly mean eh? Justen seems to think Canada qualifies as fine example of it though. Remember in 2016 when he said that Canada had no core identity and he told the NYTs that Canada is becoming a new kind of country, one not defined by our history or national origins... not only no core identity but no "mainstream" either (whatever that means). He asserted that Canada was actually the first post national state and as I recall it raised a few eyebrows in the NYTs as well...,you have to work at that BTW. A backwards sentiment IMO... it's only NOT a problem for people who watch way too much television. I"m guessing most of the folks who qualify don't have windows to look out of either. Go to the Legion, find an old guy with lots of medals and ask... it's likely a problem for him too, or for that matter, anyone who took long vacations in warm countries while dressed in blue (in most any capacity). I'm talking about the sort of things easily viewed from a window right now, and it's exactly what that old guy thought he was keeping "over there." Average people are beginning to see that and even react to it now... unfortunately "the now part" is a bit late in the game. After voters get around to demanding change, and doing it in numbers too large to ignore, it will take 15 years to unfuc% what we've already done (allowed to happen whilst watching TV might be a better way of putting it).

Me too.... but that's a change for me. Me too... but not so much anymore. Previously, I would have argued in favour of her right to express it and against any consequence as severe as firing. I would have labeled it free speech whilst quietly fuming to myself and wiping her foul spittle off my collection of medals. Same thing with burning the flag. I don't like it but my revulsion is tempered by the notion that free speech has to extend to things I don't like in order to earn its name. But (and it's a huge honking but of a BUTT), she and other progressives have convinced me otherwise, and they worked hard at doing it, damned hard. In the end, it was their nastiness, toxicity, and ridicule that won the day. In the final analysis I could easily be persuaded to change back, I'm actually eager to do it, but for now I want them to suffer the same consequences they delighted inflicting on others.... at least until they cry. It's the quickest way through the storm IMO and if you cheered when your neighbours got fired, it serves as a lesson in what happens when humility and compassion leave the room. There it is. And it's likely her own (liberal progressive) standard of "words are violence" that she (and a few others recently) now find chewing on their own collective tails. I bet they didn't think that standard would ever be applied to them. That arrogance is at the heart of my shift in opinion, it only seems fair that the (preferred) progressive punishment of being outed, doxed, fired and having your kids harassed on the way to school should work both ways. There may be a lesson here: when treating others badly becomes SOP it's always good to look in the mirror and consider the unintended consequences being reflected back. I perceive that some in the US are doing that right now, and probably for the first time.

And they don't realize what a pound of butter costs either. They don't know that they don't know and can't even begin to fathom why knowing speaks to their own credibility. It's almost funny, they can't see that not knowing reflects poorly on every single word they mumble after "I grew up in a middle class family." Down Herb... it's actually not about the cost of butter so let me save you a few LOLs and FFS's and suggest that you either get it or you don't. It's actually analogous to waving red capes at raging bulls whilst thinking the bull isn't smart enough to notice, and when he does, thinking he won't trample you underfoot because you grew up on a farm. Frankly, I watched all this in awe, usually whilst singing Gayle's little ditty "abcdeFU" under my breath. Here's your headline of the day and it's the first time I find myself in agreement with Bernie, which must mean he has it all wrong too. Nancy Pelosi fires back at Bernie Sanders for comments on Dems' sweeping election loss: No 'respect' Sanders said the Democratic Party 'abandoned working class people' https://www.foxnews.com/media/nancy-pelosi-fires-back-bernie-sanders-comments-dems-sweeping-election-loss-no-respect

And lots more IMO. It's a long (LONG) list and each item is worthy of separate consideration in a separate thread, the very sort of after action considerations they will likely ignore. Instead, they'll fire the aid who failed to put that poor elephant in a rainbow dress and then blame Clooney for not dancing with her. Got to run... cheers

I thought that one went without saying... I actually pared the list down so as not to challenge Herbs attention span. And yes, certainly, some Dems are selling it as causal and they have a point. But ionically (and speaking personally) , it's about the only factor I (might) have had the capacity to forgive had there been a rational exit plan up for consideration. I could have acknowledged that she was the VP, not the POTUS and cut her some slack because of it. During the campaign it was the elephant in the room though, and that poor elephant was wearing a miniskirt and lipstick in a failed attempt to get a dance partner... it was hungry for something more substantial than salad and it starved to death waiting.

The list seems to be growing eh? - Biden for not dropping out earlier. - Obama for not endorsing her earlier. - Her campaign machinery for not communicating effectively with voters. - Women (in general) for not supporting a female candidate. White women (specifically) for not supporting a black woman and even worse... black women for not supporting a sister. - Men (in general) for being too sexist to vote for a woman with a special shout out to black men for being race traitors. - Immigrants for not supporting immigration. - The media for focussing on cackles and salads. and - pollsters for getting it so tragically wrong And that's a short list... I've yet to hear a lack of common sense policy and the notion of being a better candidate floated as causal. Democrats seem incapable of admitting that things like defunding and vilifying the police, opening the border, weaponizing the judiciary, or withdrawing from Afghanistan in the most insanely incompetent manner ever witnessed was (in any way shape or form) contributory. That qualifies as another short list BTW... the rest of it would be a stand-alone thread. But ya, Good Lord, it must have been Clooney, it must be his fault... right? I suppose it's the only way you could possibly think that a change in packaging to include rainbows (to promote inclusivity) would have altered the outcome.... a uniquely liberal POV I think. But maybe there's an outside chance that all it really needed was some introspective thinking, and maybe they'll get there eventually. Maybe even something as simple as an internal dialog that asked questions like "what could possibly go wrong with my brilliant plan?" and "what are the (potential) unintended consequences we may need to mitigate?" would have served them better than having to answer inevitable after action questions like: "WTF did you think was going to happen?"

Can't help ya with that but I'd say it's time to "go hard or go home." I think we're at a point where things either get better or they get progressively worse; it will be voters who decide and they have (IMO again) a 4-5 year window to do so. Pressures on eh? Four years from now I expect to see a line on the WAC chart labeled PNR. Venture beyond that and for good or ill you (we and us) will be all in with the decision made, fully invested in outcomes we no longer have (much) control over. In terms of "selection and maintenance of the aim" the time to make a decision is now, there's still time to get it right but, as with all things examined in hindsight, it will require compromise, compassion and good headwork at a time when all three are in short supply. Not sure what else to say, folks can either read about it or visit warm places who got it wrong.... I'd pack a blue hat. Cheers

Indeed, and I worry about the same thing for the same reasons. Maybe we're just creating a see-saw effect that encourages both ends of the fulcrum to become increasingly volatile over time, with all of the polarization and partisan media rhetoric (meaning lies) that goes with it. Making people fearful of an election result that goes against them is a recipe for violence... the US founding fathers would have called it "an inducement to war." Sometimes I think giving the Herbs and Dogs exactly what they want until they cry uncle is the quickest way threw this, then I think about the amount of damage these creatures have actually done in a short period of time. Throw in the two decades it will take to unfu@k the mess they've already created and I admit to being at something of a loss. Were I suddenly put in charge of (say) regenerating the CAF, the long standing disregard for the simple attrition / recruiting / operational tempo equation is breathtaking. Those who think it isn't so might want to consider the lingering effects of FRP 95 and the fact that careers are measured in decades. A recipe for "be careful what you wish for" on steroids... and a lesson we have yet to even design a CTS/CTP for. Back to occasional lurking.... Cheers