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If you think that elves spread the virus, then you probably believe the fairy tales that the government is telling you. Sweet dreams little princess. Viruses have been around for hundreds of millions of years long before man walked the globe. The ones that have survived are the ones that are able to find hosts, reproduce and find other hosts. You may think that you are better at hiding from the virus than the virus is at finding you, that may be true, but hundreds of millions of years of evolution tell me otherwise. When I ride on transit I wear a mask, and take a seat on the bus.. When I get off the bus someone else sits on the same seat. If the bus is full people hold onto a pole. Other people hold onto the same pole. On air planes they were keeping the middle seat open to encourage social distancing. People were sitting on an airplane for 4-6 hours 18" away from the passenger next to them, passing things back and forth to the stewardess, and all the time thinking tat they were avoiding contact. I see people lawn bowling keeping every second lane open mingling with the other players, passing the balls back and forth and they think that they are avoiding viral contact. I see people go to the dog park, everyone pets everyone elses dog. I go to the grocery store, there are arrows on the floor to help people from crossing each others paths. Half the people go the wrong way. I see people pick up items and then put them back on the shelf, and then other people pick up the same items and bring them home to their families. In my building there is a rule of two people on the elevator at a time. There is no possible way to remain 2 meters apart on an elevator, and everyone pushes the same buttons, and passes through the same door, sometimes holding it for others. When crossing the street people congregate on the corners waiting for their turn to cross, for some reason every one of them needs to push the button for the walk signal. People ride two or sometimes more in a car for several minutes, breathing the same air, possibly coughing or sneezing, but almost certainly breathing. If you think that after 8 months you have avoided all possible contact, then don't let me wake you. You might want to reelect the same leaders who have been looking out for our best interest all this time.

Why don't you use specific numbers instead of dealing in generalities. You are at a computer, why not educate yourself. There are 742 hospitalizations in Alberta 137 of these are in ICU. Of course this is not good, but there would have been less if lock downs had not flattened the curve. If the hospitals are at capacity it is because of mismanagement not because there are on average 4.6 patients per hospital, 0.85 in ICU. Of course it is better not to have a virus, only immunity will help with that. Flattening the curve only means people get sick tomorrow instead of today, wake up people it is now tomorrow. Why not open your eyes before your mouth. Your best hope of seeing a simpleton is to find a mirror. There are 5,890 Albertans locked down for every one in ICU , that may make sense in your world, but is not good for the future of the province. Lock downs mean more people with covid today, not less. https://www.statista.com/statistics/440923/total-number-of-hospital-establishments-in-canada-by-province/ https://www.alberta.ca/covid-19-alberta-data.aspx

Good find. That is very useful information for me. Many thanks.

I can agree with almost everything you have said. Nice to hear a voice of reason amongst all the chaos and crazies. I would like our governments to to invest more in ventilators, I am sure that you could buy many for $300 Billion. If there are none available (which seems unlikely), then we should have had our finest engineers (say from Magna International, Bombardier or even our university engineering departments) working on the problem when we first recognized it, and building a capacity to produce them here. If we need more space for intensive care units, why not make space available in empty hotel floors (there seems to be a lot of that), or community centers, or churches, or set up field hospitals for those with simpler needs, and reallocate the more well equipped space in our hospitals for ICU. I am so tired of people telling me all the problems involved in caring for our sick, instead of trying to do something about it. Don't tell me what we don't have, work with what we do have.

The WHO has based their response to covid19 on the measures taken to overcome the H1N1 pandemic of 1918. Covid19 is not the H1N1 virus of 1918. In the 1918 pandemic one third of the worlds population was infected, and 10% of the infected died. With covid19 one in 107 people have been infected, and less than 4% of resolved cases have resulted in death. In 1918 the deaths occurred in people with strong immune systems ass well as ones with weak immune systems, necessitating a general lock down. Covid19 results in death mostly in elderly people weakened by other ailments. A specific approach of investing in improving our long term care homes would be more helpful. The reason that the 1918 virus caused so many deaths in young healthy people is that it caused a cytokine storm. Covid19 does not. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm Scientists have mapped key elements of a severe immune overreaction -— a “cytokine storm” -— that can both sicken and kill patients who are infected with certain strains of flu virus. A cytokine storm is an overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), which, in a flu infection, is often associated with a surge of activated immune cells into the lungs. The resulting lung inflammation and fluid buildup can lead to respiratory distress and can be contaminated by a secondary bacterial pneumonia -- often enhancing the mortality in patients. Covid 19 is a virus that causes mild to moderate symptoms in most people, and in Canada 99% of people living outside of long term care homes recover from it. The WHO has invested so much time and effort convincing world governments to lock down their citizens and businesses, and so little in actually finding out if that is an appropriate response. So many intelligent people, with so little common sense, that is the real crisis.

People are getting their information from the government and the media. They believe what these two pillars of honesty tell us without questioning it. Question it. You say that the say that ICU wards are filling up with covid cases, I say they are not. Why don't you google the number of covid cases in our hospitals and the number of hospitals and then tell me I am wrong. You talk about the large number of seniors dying. This is true and unacceptable. I believe that the lockdowns forcing our seniors to be isolated and sedentary is causing huge numbers to die. Show me where that is not true. I believe that if the government had spent $5B to $10B on bringing long term care homes up to world class standards, instead of $300B on paying people not to work we could have saved many more lives. Prove me wrong.

In fact the lockdown is not needed, it is of no help to anyone. It has strained our health system, burdened our economy, killed our elderly, turned us into a sedentary society and divided into groups of haters that confront each other in the street. It has caused us to shun our neighbours who we regard virus incubators, likely to cause our demise. The actions of our government would be criminal if we could prove intent. I personally think that they couldn't even spell the word, even if you gave them a dictionary, and opened it to the appropriate page.

Our doctors and their doctors are pretty much all WHO doctors. They based their plan for controlling ccovid19 on the pandemic of 1918. Of course covid19 is very much different from the 1918 H1n1 virus. In 1918 H1n1 infected one third of the worlds population, resulting in the death of 10% of those infected. It killed people with healthy immune systems, and people with weak immune systems. Cpvid19 is very different. In Canada it has so far infected 1.2% of the population. Of the cases that have been resulted in death or recovery, the recovery rate is over 96%. Of the 4% that died 75% were residents off long term care homes. The recovery rate for people not living in long term care homes is 99%. The people in these homes were essentially locked down not seeing people outside of their bubble anyway, but the doctors convinced the government to lock down everyone else . Justin borrowed $300 billion to address the damage resulting from the general lock down, when 5 to 10 billion invested in improving the long term care homes would actually done much more good, and prevented many thousands of deaths caused by collateral damage.

What makes the whole situation more unfortunate is that our doctors totally misdiagnosed the nature of covid19. They based their response on that designed for the H1N1 influenza virus of 1918. This response was totally inappropriate for covid19, and resulted in many thousands of needless deaths, while preventing none.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/02/19/1986824/0/en/Fraser-Institute-News-Release-This-year-the-Ontario-government-will-spend-more-on-debt-interest-costs-than-on-post-secondary-education.html Government interest payments divert resources away from health care, education and social services, and limit the ability of governments to provide tax relief,” https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/clearing-health-care-backlog-caused-by-covid-19-will-require-1-3b-in-additional-funding-cma-1.5161172 TORONTO -- Clearing the health care backlog of surgeries and scans delayed by the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic will require more than a billion dollars in government funding, according to a new study. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/growing-debt-burden-for-canadians.pdf Interest payments are a major consequence of debt accumulation. Governments must make interest payments on their debt similar to households that must pay interest on borrowing related to mortgages, vehicles, or credit card spending. Revenues directed towards interest payments mean that there is less money available for tax cuts or government programs such as health care, education, and social services. https://theconversation.com/huge-government-debts-mean-canada-is-robbing-its-kids-147977 Before the pandemic, the combined federal and provincial Canadian debt totalled $1.4 trillion. And since then, this debt has rapidly grown, with governments borrowing another $300 billion in the current year alone. This debt will be mostly repaid by our children, their children and their children’s children. This raises a moral matter of how we are treating our young and future Canadians. Is it ethical for governments to increase spending by placing greater debts on future generations? Isn’t contractually placing our children into a monetary form of debt bondage morally indefensible? And how might we objectively judge government borrowing policies to ensure justice for future generations?

Our governments have spent hundreds of billions of dollars on ill advised measures from unelected doctors. Our children will pay the price

It seems that they ruled out latent infection, meaning that they did not believe it was a reinfection. It seems that genomic differences enabled the virus to evade the immune system. Is this not a different strain, play with the semantics all you wish. I also believe that a vaccine should match all circulating variants. It means that we have to make an effective vaccine not dismiss the need for one. When I was growing up measles, mumps and chicken pox were common. This was not true when my children were young. The reason for this is immunity provided by vaccines. Anti vaccinators are doing a disservice to all of us.

If you believe that herd immunity is out, then I have to assume that you believe efforts to develop a vaccine are a waste of time. If people have been infected twice, perhaps it is because there are two strains of the virus. Of course slowing the spread is likely to result in time for more strains to develop.

Viruses have been around for many millions years, long before mankind. They have survived for so long, by not killing their hosts. For some reason you believe that you are more able to hide from the virus than it is able to find you. I find that highly questionable. If you missed the graph posted earlier, perhaps you should take a look at it. If you have looked at it and don't understand it, find someone who can explain it to you. The government measures are meant to flatten the curve. The hope is to slow the spread of the virus, not prevent it. This just makes the crisis last longer. By crisis I mean irrational government actions, not the virus. It is time to become responsible adults, and to look to the future and try to provide a better one for our children.

I am going to assume that you were addressing me. My plan would be to stop fighting the wrong virus. I would stop making policies that are killing our elderly, robbing our healthcare and education systems by throwing money that could be going to their funding and instead using it paying people to be idle. The government has caused us to become a more sedentary society lessening our health and well being, they have made us people that see others not as neighbours, but as virus incubators that we need to keep as far away from as possible. Our government has closed our hospitals, and schools and attacked our businesses, all because they are unable to see beyond the end of their noses. If intent could be proven, these would be criminal acts, but I believe they are just inept. I believe that they are revisiting the efforts to fight the 1918 H1N1 influenza pandemic because they have yet to realize that this is not the 1918 influenza virus. If Justin had ran on a platform telling the electorate that he would turn the major decisions of running our nation over to unelected doctors and cheerlead the premiers as they locked our children out of their schools, closed our hospitals leaving our neighbours to die because they would now be refused the treatments they had been expecting, maybe even promised, then he would likely be teaching drama 2000 miles away from our nations capital, and we would all be the better for it. The 1918 H1N1 virus killed the old and young alike. Young adults with healthy immune systems were as likely to die as older people with weaker immune systems. The doctors discovered that this was because the virus triggered an immune response called a cytokine storm. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm Scientists have mapped key elements of a severe immune overreaction -— a “cytokine storm” -— that can both sicken and kill patients who are infected with certain strains of flu virus. A cytokine storm is an overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), which, in a flu infection, is often associated with a surge of activated immune cells into the lungs. The resulting lung inflammation and fluid buildup can lead to respiratory distress and can be contaminated by a secondary bacterial pneumonia -- often enhancing the mortality in patients. Covid 19 does not cause this reaction. Covid 19 is a virus that causes mild to moderate symptoms in most people, and 99% of people living outside of long term care homes recover from it. After 8 months of restrictions do our officials not know this. Are they lying to us, or simply incompetent. Our efforts should be focused on long term care homes where it could do some good. My plan would be to not lock our children out of their schools, and tell them that they are about to die. I believe we should provide them with best education we can and tell them that their future is full of promise, and then working as best we can to make that true. My plan would be to not close the hospitals, leaving people to die from cancer, heart disease and other ailments. My plan would be to continue doing elective surgeries like hip and knee replacements helping people to remain active and healthy. My plan would be to keep our businesses open and productive, rather than shutting them down resulting in a 38% decline in gdp (the goods and services that our economy produces). I would ally myself with our businesses, not be their persecutor. If I was the leader of a nation that had accumulated a debt of close to $1 trillion in it's first 153 years, I would not borrow another $500billion, increasing that by half. I would make my goal to reduce the debt, and not burden our children with a debt that will rob them and their descendants of the resources to provide them with the education, healthcare and social services that we enjoyed. I would not encourage people to hide alone in their homes and telling them that they should be shun their neighbours because associating with them could be fatal. I would actually try to understand the problem, before I took action fighting shadows, while that destroyed so much of what our parents worked so hard to leave for us. I would encourage people to get out meet their neighbours, live life, make memories, and care for children and elderly. If your post was intended for me, I hope that answers your question, if it wasn't you can ignore all that drivel.

Sorry for that rant. I failed to check to see if your post was addressed to me, and it wasn't. Puts me in a rather bad light. Again I apologize for an inappropriate response.

It is nice to know that you have empathy for someone. Why so little for the people who's deaths resulted from the lock downs? Why don't you care about the people who died on hospital waiting list and who never received treatment, the people who were opiod dependent and as a result of the border shut downs were forced to take toxic drugs resulting in their deaths? Is it because they are not someone that you know that you are not concerned with those people who are victimized by the increased domestic abuse the lock downs have resulted in?

Yes I do believe this is possible. I also believe that it is better than leaving someone to die. As I stated, if proper preparation was done, there would be at most a four hour window to provide a mechanical ventilator. Perhaps you are a better shopper than me, and could a better ventilator. If the government has $300 billion to spend paying people not to work, perhaps they could even buy more mechanical ventilators. Hope that is not too much lateral thinking all at once for you.

Here is what I believe. We are often told that the measures the government took are based on what we learned from the 1918 H1N1 influenza pandemic. This virus baffled the medical community because it caused the deaths of people with weak immune systems, and people with strong immune systems. When they examined the lungs of young healthy people who died they found massive damage, and the cause of death was often pneumonia. They soon determined that the cause was an overreaction of the immune system called a cytokine storm. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm Scientists have mapped key elements of a severe immune overreaction -— a “cytokine storm” -— that can both sicken and kill patients who are infected with certain strains of flu virus. A cytokine storm is an overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), which, in a flu infection, is often associated with a surge of activated immune cells into the lungs. The resulting lung inflammation and fluid buildup can lead to respiratory distress and can be contaminated by a secondary bacterial pneumonia -- often enhancing the mortality in patients. In 1918 it was necessary to lock down the general population because they were unable to target one segment of the population. Covid is a different virus, and does not cause a cytokine storm. It is a virus that causes mild to moderate symptoms in most people. in cases resolved in either recovery or death, over 96% result in recovery, lass than 4% in death. Of the 4% of cases that are fatal 75% of those occur in a small group of people who are residents of long term care facilities, meaning that the recovery rate of the remaining population has around 99% . This would indicate that a targeted approach on a specific group seems more logical. You can put more resources where they will get better results. This would also limit the collateral damage resulting in deaths for people on hospital waiting lists, opiod dependent people and would lessen the increase of domestic abuse that has resulted from the lockdowns. As for ventilators, I found that you can purchase a first aid mechanical ventilator form Walmart Canada for $57.49. I would purchase enough o these to furnish all the hospitals that lack the mechanical ones. If you had a supply of mechanical ventilators at an airfield in central Canada you would be able to deliver a mechanical ventilator in under 4 hours to anywhere in Canada. https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/FAGINEY-Manual-Resuscitator-PVC-Adult-Ambu-Bag-First-Aid-kit-Tool-Simple-Breathing-Apparatus/PRD65PDY974I01S

Since the issue is the need for ventilators I decided to google ventilators. Here is what I found. There are two kinds of ventilators, one is mechanical, the other manual. Looking up manual ventilators I discovered that one could be found at Walmart Canada for $57.49. I think that if I was looking for a solution, I would purchase enough of these to provide all the hospitals that are under equipped with mechanical ventilators all that they needed to provide temporary relief. I would also stock pile enough mechanical ventilators at an air field in central Canada that would be within a 4 hour flight of any part or Canada. This solution took me about two minutes. I was able to arrive at a solution, because I was looking for one. https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/FAGINEY-Manual-Resuscitator-PVC-Adult-Ambu-Bag-First-Aid-kit-Tool-Simple-Breathing-Apparatus/PRD65PDY974I01S

Dialamah said If someone needs a ventilator, they'll die before they can get transferred to a ventilator or one can be brought to them. If we can't save someone, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't prepare to save others. I don't you don't know if you don't understand the graph I posted, or are just too lazy to read it. Flattening the curve saves no one. 75 % of the deaths from covid were residents of long term care homes, so what did the government do? On the advice of doctors who were elected by no one they locked down everyone else. If you are going to pull the trigger you should first identify the target. People watched without caring as the government lockdowns killed many thousands of people on hospital waiting lists, drug dependent people and victims of domestic abuse while saving no one. If anywhere in any of your posts you showed one bit empathy for any of these people, I will apologize and regard you with greater respect.

If you are not looking for a solution, you will not find one. Transfer patients, transfer equipment set up field hospitals. We have world class army engineers that as far as I am aware have no war at the present time to occupy their rime. If you are faced with a problem you can suck on your thumb urinate in your pants or stand up like a man and address it.

Not sure who that is addressed to, if it is me, I will respond. If it is meant for someone else, I will mind my own business.

Instead of looking for problems, why not look for solutions. Do you know of of even one case where a patient needing a ventilator denied one. If necessary why not transfer the patient, or the ventilator. There are ventilators for sale. https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en_CA/Products/Mechanical-ventilators/HAMILTON-T1.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAq8f-BRBtEiwAGr3DgYnitIUj7Bksk8azrioBLWqeM3eI3t9QWOxWuI4GDNvJWka8aRftABoCXgsQAvD_BwE Perhaps the government should have purchased some instead of letting people die, assuming that this has actually happened, you seem rather unspecific on that one.

You think that we should set government policy on some situation that you have manufactured in your own mind? You are okay with locking our children out f their schools, and telling them they are about to die though. It is time to reassure our children that their future holds promise and doing our level best to make that true. Caring for our elderly would be nice too.