paxamericana

OMG people move the immigrant debate to that post I started one for this purpose. We're trying to talk about Nato deadbeats and the merit of democracy here.

I've said it before in other post so I'll say it again, its meant to offend as many Canadian and European liberal snowflakes as possible. Quick grab your shovel.

LOLS yeah okay, I guess we're so evil the rest of you all must really hate us. We'll go away now. Not sure if I'm talking to a communist Russian or not but I'll just assume you're anti-capitalist because you don't enjoy free-market. NOPE wrong again and please don't joke about this, I have many veteran friends going through their inner demons trying to keep it from consuming them. Often suicide seems like a quick escape. It's not for the reason you stated. It's because of the isolation they feel when they get home with nobody understanding the experiences that they been through. There's been much work done of helping veterans to connect and support one another. Actually talk to a vets before you disgrace your self with utter bullshit from Russia please.

Since when did we become imperialist? We help rebuild many of the shit-hole that came out of world war 2 or is that an inconvenient truth? It's called the marshal plan, look it up...you're basking in it still to this day. America promote a rule based order that benefited the free world for 70 years or is that too hegemonic and greedy. Hmmm

China's economy is as much dependent on the US as we are to them, this relationship benefit the world and both side. Their financial backing is as much useful to them as it is to us. They need greenbacks to stabilize their financial market with currency manipulation. But make no mistake, they're seeking to supplant the democratic model with the Ming dynasty model of vassal state, seeking military and economic veto over their neighboring countries. Where we must compete we will do so vigorously.

You're not really discussing the topic but feel free to bring up irrelevant examples of history about standing army. The standing army is about using the military against their own people not because we're trying to fend off external threats.

Hey brother thank you for your service, though we're on different sides of the border, we fight as one when shit hits the fan. America had the same exact problem with lack of funding and support of our military industrial complex because there were sentiment among the populous of what you described, the lack of political will. Trump is an agent of change, though he leaves much to be desired, his message was clear, we need to fully fund our military to see their mission succeed. The military held the line and bought us time so that we a-hole back home could figure out how much we let our service member down with continuation sequestration and lack of funding. There's a bright side to this, America has proven it's political will by passing a bi-partisan support of the largest military spending bill ever. This should an example to the rest of the free world suffering the same problem. Military support is a non partisan issue, as it should be. Don't buy in to the belief that you're simply paying for a Military Industrial Complex with no clear purpose. People need to realize that peace is expensive but war is much more costly. Whose the biggest threat to freedom to justify all this spending? China and Russia. They seek to undermine our western democratic model. Some NATO countries like Turkey and a few others started buying into that crap and adopted authoritarian rules. Erdogan is just the start, if we continue on this path of sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will go away that's what you're going to get the slow erosion of democracy until it morph into a de-facto dictatorship with real masters in Beijing and Moscow. As Zeitgeist point it out soft power is extremely important in curtailing those malign influences but it needs hard power support. You cannot have one without the other and expect the mission to succeed. You need a strong military to deter aggression so your diplomat can focus on soft-power projects and negotiate from a position of strength. As much shit as I give you cannucks I know it is un-realistic to ask every NATO member to start building Aircraft-carriers. That's not what we are asking, we're asking you re-invest into your military and don't let their capabilities erode. Hit the 2 percent GDP marker. If everybody in NATO could at least do that then America can focus its effort in our priority theater the indo-pacific. I might also add that if Canada want to be at the fore front of this fight, you should focus your efforts closer to shore, the arctic circle. Russia is trying to lay vast claims of territory and resources in the arctic ocean of which you also share borders. You need more ice-breakers and submarines to combat these threats as well as a host of support infrastructure to support them.

Yup soft power is equally as important as hard power. At the end of the day that's the whole point of even having hard power.

I agree with most of this post except one point. The US does not simply fund the Military Industrial Complex because there's a conspiracy to or just to do so for the sake of financial benefit but rather we see security as a vital foundation of democracy. Since day one of independence America had to fight for its own existence in the shadow of colonization and empires. Yes having a strong military is one of the core requirement of being a super power. We acknowledge and approve of it willingly not because of some misguided belief that we're simply funding some industrial base with no greater purpose. We consider ourselves a revolutionary force and the best 240 year old experiment that ever existed. That's all this is, an experiment, there's no holy scripture claiming America has the right to exist. It only exist because brave men and women fought to defend it and kept this experiment going. We in the younger generation see a continuation of our fore-bearer's "so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom".

We have some of the lowest trade barrier around, why do you think america's economy is the world's envy. And yes trump is pushing for free trade across nato . Get on board the trump train.

See, i knew you were a united earth directorate when i see one....look your only real strategy for establishing a one world order is to have china with russia fight us and start world war 3.

I just assume that the flow of water from rain is greater than what they can feasibly pump out. We're probably talking about a lake size amount of water and the thai goverment probably only have portable pump with no where to drain that water to. It takes 5 hours to dive and traverse the entrance path so not an easy feat to ask of weakened young kids. I suspect they will try to install air exchange pipes for them. Oxygen scrubber is viable too but getting those equipment inside the cave is probably very difficult.

Your population is too small to sustain those kind of industry. It's just cheaper to sell to the Americans. No point resisting, just adopt unilateral free trade, it'll make everybody's life a lot easier.

Because with an authoritarian model, there is no incentives for feedback. Hence the political system is stagnant.

Now wait a minute, I don't remember uncle Sam raising the white flag. I take offense to that, you're making my American flag tattoo on my buttocks itch with patriotism ...We kick russian,iranian, chinese,north korean ass anywhere in the world. Git Sum!!! Muricah! Russia and China are "near peer" competitors, most analyst believe they are still 10 years behind the US on war fighting capabilities. Anyways, look as far as ukraine is concern they are legitimately looking to adopt the western Democratic model. That's something we should be proud of and encourage not shy away because of a bully wanting to fight dirty. America has and always will fight for what's right. We are the fist of democracy and will shove freedom down their russian necks. We are absolutely un-appolgetic about that.

Would not count on it. The kiwi and ozzy are way ahead of you on that

Some interesting ideas about exported democracy. Lets discuss it in another post. As for the MIC, again I will point out that its not having a strong mic that's at fault its having leaders too willing to use them. By the way you should consider the CIA part of the MIC . Which Obama loved using. I think all president do because of its unaccountability.

Lybia ring a bell? Regime change has been done by both parties. Nobody hands are clean. But sometimes regime change is what's needed. Cough hitler Also we are proud of our military and their industrial complex no need to call it "unfortunate".

You're slightly mis-informed. The reason why military and cia has been used more often to solve international disagreement is because they are two institution geared for competition. Past politician saw the opportunity to use these institution because it is easier than negotiating(a give and take bargain). All political leaders of the past are guilty of this. Not necessary just because of the military industrial complex. They are only pawns in the game of global chess. The trump administration acknowledges this and maintains that the higher military spending is not to wage war but to deter and allow our diplomat to negotiate from a position of strength. It also buys time so the diplomat can work out those conflict, diplomatically. Trump has not invaded another country since his election by the way. Obama did. Though trump did sound like he was going to, and that's the point. You got to bluff your opponent with a credible overwhelming military threat to get them to the negotiating table. It goes back to human psychology, peace through strength not peace through getting rid of your Military Industrial Complex by under funding them and hoping your adversary won't take advantage of that. Peace is expensive but war is much more expensive. So get on the Trump train canadians. Big brother is taking you on for a ride. At the very least if you're not willing to support your own MIC why don't you do free trade with us so we can afford to do defend you. It's more than fair, it's good for you as well.

you got us there! darn next time

America's security umbrella ties into NATO which deal mainly with Europe. But the strategic threat is not just in Europe its the entire world because the world's economy is connected. From Africa to Nova Scotia.... To say that we only spend on NATO is a misnomer, our entire budget takes care of the Indo pacific, the middle east, Africa, south america and the arctic circle. All of which 90 percent of commerce flow through. What I'm saying is this, America's strategic interest is NATO's strategic interest. Sure we disagree on some specific items but by enlarge we all benefit from this security umbrella. One that your government has recognize and decided to commit to, so to give you credit, it has enhance defense spending. But the issue is that the spending level are no where near where they should be or promised. Not even in the next 10 years will you reach the target of 2 percent. This clearly show the lack of political will in defending your self. If all NATO state actually hit their target spending level then America can scale back on it's defense of Europe and redeploy to other areas that are needed like the Indo-pacific and in the future the Arctic circle with climate change opening up new resources and trade routes. This is how NATO is suppose to be. But it's not, currently America has to share the largest burden in every conflict theater.

Yup a complete rip off to us. Needs to be free trade across the board.

He's adopted the isolationist/stick your head in the sand policy.

More or less true and I might add it ties our economies and dependency on one another, strengthening that bond and need for a collective defense. What Trump has attempted to address was the unfair-trade practices and America's overwhelming burden on defense. Two very difficult topics to discuss with "allies" as the two previous administration had tried and failed to make any improvement. Mainly because Europe and Canada did not see the benefit to it. This issue is the heart of the matter. Canadians/European think that America's war mongering were the cause of their large defense budget, a incorrect assessment. It is actually to stabilize regions of conflict and facilitate peace and prosperity to strategic areas, like the indo-pacific, Europe and the middle east, all vital for global trade. Second, there were no incentive to adopt free trade with America as there was no economic pressure to do so. Europeans and Canadian alike were complacent enough to continue the status quo of the Marshal plan giving America the finger on trade. But Trump has used this complacency as leverage to gain domestic political capital. Why not keep "ripping off Americans and let them defend us" was the growing sentiment among American view of our NATO allies. This view is not totally unjustified and if left to fester this would mean the end of NATO. Trump's proposal for free trade across partner nation is plenty fair as it would benefit everyone.However, his pressure tactic of placing tariff on allies is controversial, it did however bring attention to the international trading system that needed a major overhaul. If anything, by up-ing the ante it would push policy maker on both side to negotiate quicker trying to reduce any potential financial impact of an actual trade war. BUT NOOOO Trudea has opted to retaliate to appeal to domestic sentiment of not backing down from trump whilst hurting everyone only so his increasingly un-popular administration can survive. Trump is not a politician as I mentioned previously, but your PM however is one, a very good slithering politician not looking for your best Interest Canada.

Fair enough. Atleast I got your attention to the issue.