Leader Circle

Being a true Christian in every sense of the word is a tremenduous struggle to achieve, for it is so easy to stray from the straight and narrow. No one is perfect. We all sin. When we want to suit our own needs, and have things go the way we want to, or the way we think they should....do we invoke His name and His teachings to contradict His own? Do we assume that God changes with the times? That His book's interpretation ought to follow political correctness? Modernization? Believing that homosexuality is un-natural and forbidden (the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha is one referral to that), is merely believing in and following the teachings of our faith. It is the act. Not the person. We all have our own crosses to bear...our own trials in life. But it is not for any of us to forgive. It is God's. Well put betsy, you said it better than I could imagine. Thank you I doubt anyone will argue with you here.

I do have a problem with that, I have a very big problem with that. You see the bible tells us all have sinned. And what you are doing is claiming that one group of sinners canot get married while allowing other sinners to get married. The bible is clear on the fact that God makes no differentiation in sins. God apparently sees one sin just as bad as the other, and if you commit one, you commit them all. You infact admit that you are not a good Christian, perhaps you should not be allowed to be married. Every time you sin according to God you commit homosexuality so becarefull. When you attack homosexuals ability to get married based on the so called immorality of Homosexuality you become a hypocrit, who founds his beliefs on a double standard. I will attack such things and campaign against such things, because actions like those are intolerable. It is extending the powers of evil and tyrany to a level they should not be extended to, it is trampling on the liberty of your fellow Canadians. And this is nothing short of Immoral. I do not believe you can stand behind the bible and say it gives you the justification to be an imoral, hypocrit, who lives a life of double standards and helps perpetuate injustice and discrimination, that is intolerable. And If I don't like it? No, not tough I will campaign against it, I will argue against it, and I will not stand for it. The bible gives you no justification to ruin other peoples lives?????????????? WTF?, the bible has said that God wants humankind to choose to follow god. But when you get the government to force people to follow Gods morals, your are not only robbing people of their political liberties, but you are robbing people of their God given liberties. Who else do you want to steal Liberties from, who else do you want to persecute in the name of your religous text, Persecution in the name of religion needs to be removed from our society, I do not see a reason to reward such actions. You say homosexuality is wrong, I say you are in the wrong and I believe that anyone with an ounce of compassion or logic would understand that you do not have a religous or political leg to stand on when you deny gays the right to marry. You talk about hatred, yet your post is chock full of hatred and distain for me and people like me. Your post is also quite full of contradictions and I don't know where to begin. I have never called myself a christian and don't represent the church the way it deserves it. As I told Oddman, I was raised on the Bible and was taught about the wrongs of homosexuality and I believe it. The fact that you HATE the Bible & people who support it, shows your intolerance and distain for Godly things. It seems you have more issues to deal with than my ignorance to things pertaining to homosexuality. If you misunderstood where I was headed when bantering with oddman, I am sorry if I offended you in the process. You and I will disagree on this part and it is okay, because in the end, you have the upper hand. Same sex marriage is legal in Canada...you won!! Good luck to you, sorting out your hatred for traditional marriage.

Oddman, I too can be civilized and I appreciate your sincerity in your last post. I too apologize for my behavior, but you have to understand where I come from. I was raised in a religious household and was taught that homosexuality was wrong and it has stuck with me. I have seen first hand the damage people do under the "religious" flag and it makes me understand where people's intolerance towards religion comes from. I do believe that the Bible does in fact preach against homosexuality and I stick to that. It sounds dumb to someone who does not believe in the Bible, but it's what I was taught. As far as what same sex marriage, it doesn't do alot to me per se, but I have always grown up to understand marriage as a union of a man and a woman, and since I was taught that homosexuality was wrong, it cheapens marriage to me for it to include same sex unions. Many may call this short-sighted, but if it's what you were taught from birth and how you were raised and how you personally believe, then it makes sense. Sorry if this offends you, I just don't accept anything else. I hold no ill will towards homosexuals and treat everyone with the same respect that I am treated(in person, not necessarily online...I can bust loose!)LOL. My wife's cousin is gay and lives with his partner and because we are both into computers, we actually have alot to talk about. I do not like his lifestyle and would not attend the wedding, were he to marry his partner, but I would not treat him with any less respect than another person. I am actually one of few in the family that treats him decent, most talk behind his back, because they don't like his homosexuality. He knows where I stand and we don't discuss their sex life, so everything is fine when I run into him. He is also one of the cousins I get along with better, because he is not stuck-up or unpleasant. I must also tell you I live in rural Alberta and these sort of things are greatly frowned upon. I also grew up with an older neighbor who was gay and lived the wild life in Toronto and caught aids and died at 40 and he was a decent guy, just never respected the world of diseases. I do see a decay in society, but not necessarily from same sex couples, it is also their supporters and the left side of the political spectrum who cause grief for the rest of Canada, be it through strikes, protests, marches and that sort of thing. I have seen the corruption in the schools & hospitals by these same people and the whole country has to pay for it. I spent some time while my wife was in the local hospital and saw the poor care that was offered to her and it outraged me that these same people want a raise every year or 6 months or however long their union leader decides, it truly disgusts me. And although they may not be the ring leaders in all of this, they seem to dwell in the same circles and carry the same flags and to me it is the decline of society as a whole. It pisses me off that these people can command much of how the government and the school system & hospitals are ran and they have no passion for what they do, just the wage they make.(They are not all this way....there are many though!) They control the healthcare system and they use it to their advantage and it is truly sick and the more money thrown at them, the more they want. They control the school system as well and would try to instill in the children, their beliefs, right or wrong. I strongly disagree with this as you can imagine. I read about this stuff everyday in the news & online and it boils my blood to think the power they exert on the rest of the country. So when you tell me... all they want is to be equal, I feel they surpassed that along time ago, some of us blue collar guys want some respect back. I know these are broad-sweeping accusations, but it involves a great number of like-minded people, all the same people who would call me a bigot. So for me to give my blessing to same sex marriage is against everything I believe. I see the bad things done in the name of the church and they give a black eye to true Christians(I could be considered one of those at times.), but don't hate the church, they, like me were taught to believe homosexuality is wrong and they believe it. There are some who look to tarnish the church as well, right from the inside and they do not represent what a Christian is. I hope this has shed some light on my last few posts and I hope this hasn't offended you, it wasn't intended that way.

Well for being a straight male, you certainly carry that burden for the whole gay community!

You know it has been along time since I have felt this Irrate, but it has been a long time since I have read such hatred as is found in your post. Your post is perhaps the perfect example of all that is wrong with Religion. You talk about a loving god but you preach hatred. Is it not true that in Romans chapter 12 the word of God insturcts you to live peaceable with mankind? Yet you propose beating and bashing gays if the law of Canada didn;t restrict it. Is it not true that in Romans chapter 12 you are told to not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with Good. Yet whne I read your posts, I do nto see any attempts made to overcoem "evil" with Good, instead I am witnessing a man attempting to overcome good with evil. did Romans 12 not say if oyur enemy is hungry feed him and if he is thirsty let him drink. I do nto see that love in you, instead I see you calling someone ----ing stupid. Does the bible not tell you to be kindly and affectionate one to another. Where is the kindness in dressing up in the garment of the KKK? Does the bible not say not to think of yourself more highly then you ought to think. Yet you are tainted with the poison of conciet and ruled by the thrown of hatred. Does the bible not say to bless them that persecute you and curse them not? But instead you have told us that you loathe someone who is in a debate with you. You have called the defenders of Human rights Pussies. You are hurling insults aganst those that stand up to injustice, when the bible tells you to love your nieghbor. If you read the bible you will fidn that it says all have sinned, it will tell us that if you break on commandment you are guilty of breaking them all. Whne you persecute and attack gays because they have broken one commandment, you should likewise persecute yourself, because you canot say you ahve lived a perfect life. But the bible does not instruct you to persecute those that don;t believe the bible it tells you to avenge not, it tells you to turn the other cheek, show them kindness. You have done none of this, instead you ahve conintued to preach a message of hatred trying to point out a speck of saw dust in our society. But why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Slav if you followed the whole conversation, you'd see it was meant to be a joke. I don't feel the need to explain to you, but I am not a good example of christian values. I just hate to see Bible bashers, trying to make their case for same sex marriage. I believe homosexuality is WRONG and I think the Bible agrees with me and if you have a problem with that, well.... too bad.

Is that a new definition of welfare queen? (Sorry, I just couldn't walk away from that one.) August... you just made my day.... so horribly wrong... yet funny leader circle... WOW... just WOW... with that statement you wrote is unbeleivably rediculous. I will now ignore all posts you write as they are clearly a waste of time to read. In fact i think it says alot about the degeneration of the discourse here on the forums. Which is sad. I used to like reading the discussions here, unfortunately they have become well... a little silly as of late. In an appeal to everyone here can we please please try to keep our discussions a little more civil? If i wanted to engage in political wanking i would watch fox news or Lou Dobbs. You are right, it is pointless to have an opinion around you! I have not tried to make my beliefs sound like hatred, but if that is how you interpret it then, so be it. You may call me a bigot or whatever, but I don't hate you for being gay, I just don't agree with same sex marriage. That is the only point I was trying to make. It is still okay to be a social conservative, even though the media & the big cities will tell you that you're wrong.

Blah blah blah blah. Is any of this useful? NO! Another Bible hater who wants to find the meaning of life from tea leaves! I do not agree with people who will use the Bible for their convenience or people who will use the translation argument for anything that does not suit their cause. Homosexuality is wrong according to the Bible and Sodom & Gommmorah is a fine example of that, I am sorry to be the one to tell you that and it really hangs a cloud over what you believe, but I believe the Bible not you.

If I seem pissed off, it's because I am. I am so tired of hearing about another cause or protest, trying to disrupt other people's lives to get what you want. There are lots of people in Canada who don't get their way, yet not all of them feel the need for a protest, screaming human rights and the Bible is a hate book!! Most of this shit is caused by left wing homosexuals with no ambition but to cause havok on the rest of the country, because they don't want to work and want the government to pay their way. Someone mentioned in here about smokers having to pay for their medical costs, what about homosexuals who catch aids from their lifestyle, shouldn't they have to foot their own bill? I doubt that one of you would ever consider that, it's the governments job to babysit you. Your only job is to protest to get more things changed to suit your pampered lifestyles!

It's not flimsy, it's being changed for 1% of the population, that's what is bullshit. The word fag is not on par with n****r, give me a break, why would you write fag & not the other if they were on par? What do you people prefer to be called? If you find a word that suits you, I'll use it instead. If I start a religious sect with 300,000 people you think the government would help us and change the laws so I could have 30 wives? NEVER! So don't give me this bullshit that you are only getting what you deserve! It is not hate speech, it's trying to explain to people who are so thick, no point makes it in. Instead, you bring out the same old argument about human rights. The Bible is not a hate book like you all wanna claim, because it explains things that you disagree with you call it down, too bad. Evolution is different than giving everything to someone who'll never give back. You selfish pricks want everything for nothing and do not care about the rest of Canada, just your pathetic causes.

Understandable. Just like an ex-smoker tends to be very anti-smoking more than anyone else. Or someone who decided to become vegetarian....and now can't stand even the smell of meat. Very well said. And I don't loathe people who identify themselves as Christian either. I do feel that some people just say they are Christian but do not act very Christ-like. Christ was not judgemental, he was forgiving. Being anti-gay is not a forgiving way of living one's life. Jesus was very judging when he cast sellers out of the temple. Didn't he also have strong judgements on the Pharisees and the chief Priests? There is a place to say something is wrong, just as you have stated it's wrong to claim to be a Christian and then live without morals. As for anti-gay, I don't know how you view the Bible, but in Romans 1:27 it clearly states homosexuality is an error. For believers of the Bible to state this does not make them judgemental. I guess you have to be a believer in the Bible to agree with Romans 1:27. But prostitution is illegal, and Jesus was able to spare her life. Why did he cast sellers from the temple? It seems to me that there are times when Jesus took a stand, and yet there is nothing in the Bible that relates Jesus directly with the subject of homosexuality. Still carrying that gay cross oddman? You feeling oppressed again...poor guy/girl/shemale?

I know that I am smarter than you, yet I am nice enough a person to not look down on you for it. You are too ----ing dumb to realize that I mean I will abide by the laws of the land. If the Canadian governments says it is okay to bash & beat gays, then I will ablige them, if they tell me not to, I will not. Pretty simple logic, don't ya think? As far as answering your question, I don't feel compelled to give you a reason, that you will attempt to trash and call bigotry or whatever you human rights pussies use to make you sleep better at night. I am a believer in the Bible and believe in the traditional definition of marriage and even though you aethiests don't buy that as a reason, I don't feel the need to give you more. In the same sentence, I don't think that gays are being oppresssed if they did not have the right to marriage. I think your kind of people are the main reason we have problem children running around, because you are one of the people who would call spanking a child a criminal activity. If my becoming a clansman would get people like you out of Canada, I'd gladly wear the hood!! I am done with you, don't bother responding. I loathe your kind of people! Aw, did I make you upset? Poor lil baby! I am agnostic, not an aetheist. You are not smarter than me, and I know this by reading your statement about beating up gay people if it were legal. You see, smart people THINK FOR THEMSELVES, while you say that you need the government to think for you. You are perverting the Bible. I can only be thankful that it is you who is the minority. Yeah, that's right...you. Oh, and by the way - those who are most vocal about their contempt for the gay lifestyle are almost always closet homosexuals...but no worries, your secret is safe with me. No go turn on Pat Robertson...schmoe. Not that it matters, but the whole beat a fag thing was a joke, it was aimed at you directly. I actually hold no ill will towards homosexuals, I just do not think they deserve all the attention they receive and have our country's laws changed for them. That is my biggest problem with the homosexual movement. If I were thinking of changing sides though odd, I would be hitting you up, seeing as you seem to enjoy a sausage or two. I appreciate the offer, but not today!!

I know that I am smarter than you, yet I am nice enough a person to not look down on you for it. You are too ----ing dumb to realize that I mean I will abide by the laws of the land. If the Canadian governments says it is okay to bash & beat gays, then I will ablige them, if they tell me not to, I will not. Pretty simple logic, don't ya think? As far as answering your question, I don't feel compelled to give you a reason, that you will attempt to trash and call bigotry or whatever you human rights pussies use to make you sleep better at night. I am a believer in the Bible and believe in the traditional definition of marriage and even though you aethiests don't buy that as a reason, I don't feel the need to give you more. In the same sentence, I don't think that gays are being oppresssed if they did not have the right to marriage. I think your kind of people are the main reason we have problem children running around, because you are one of the people who would call spanking a child a criminal activity. If my becoming a clansman would get people like you out of Canada, I'd gladly wear the hood!! I am done with you, don't bother responding. I loathe your kind of people!

The beauty of free speech is to allow opinions like sam's. If you call yourself a human rights activist, you need to learn that his opinion is just as valuable as yours. How dare you accuse him of hate speeches? If he is against "gay rights"(laff), that is his choice, it may not be yours, but who cares? It is idiots like you that try to infect people with the notion that you pro gay world is the only way it should be, well, many of us disagree. Just because you see it as hate, does not make it so. Alright, let's discuss then. If I don't feel that right-wingers should have the same rights as the rest of us, would you say "Hey, that's great...way to support free speech."...? I didn't call myself a human rights activist. I feel, and I am well within my rights, that if someone (Sam for example) feels certain humans are not as worthy to have cartain rights it is a message of intolerance and hate. We could go on and on with the conondrum of free speech and rights - but I still would like to know why gays and lesbians are considered to be such a threat to anyone's PRIVATE religious beliefs. Do tell.... It has nothing to do with having the "right" to gay marriage, I was talking about his right to disagree with it. You seem to want to take that right away from him. You are a bunch of hypocrits, claiming to want human rights granted for everything from screwing a dog to wearing a turbin, because these people claim to be oppressed, yet you would tell sam to shut up and take away his right to free speech because he is against gay marriage. SO WHAT if you think it is hate & intolerance? Let him say how he feels! If more people would say what they think, regardless of how people feel about it, maybe we'd have less of this politically correct BS. If you feel the Canadian rules make you oppressed, then leave! If the Canadian government decides to overturn the gay marriage law and you don't like it, well... too bad, but I will not tell you not to talk about it, like you tried to do with Sam. If it does not get overturned, big deal, it is still okay to dislike gay marriage and talk about it until the cows come home. I give a rat's ass what these human rights pussies will call intolerance & hate speech, because nothing EVER pleases these useless (bad word)! Someone needs to,like sam says, stand up and say what they truly feel, if not, it will not stop until the whole white english straight male population is put in jail for hate crimes(for calling them fags or some shit). The only problem with putting all these people in jail is: who will be left in the work force who isn't unionized? If you ask me(not that you would), I say much of this human rights talk is causing more racism towards minorities and it will eventually explode into a nasty situation that could have been avoided.

The beauty of free speech is to allow opinions like sam's. If you call yourself a human rights activist, you need to learn that his opinion is just as valuable as yours. How dare you accuse him of hate speeches? If he is against "gay rights"(laff), that is his choice, it may not be yours, but who cares? It is idiots like you that try to infect people with the notion that you pro gay world is the only way it should be, well, many of us disagree. Just because you see it as hate, does not make it so.

You have to put smoking into the proper context. Smokers have been social bullies for several generations. In the 1970s it was impossible to participate in any social activity without be subjected to second hand smoke. Since the 1980s the non-smoking majority have been fighting back against the smoking bullies and has largely succeeded. Restaurants and bars were the last public place where smokers were free to impose thier habit on others. I think the anti-smoking campaign would left restaurants alone if non-smokers had choices. Unfortunately, restaurant owners did not give non-smokers enough choices. As a result, non-smokers felt like it was 1970s all over again where they were being denied access to publically available services by the smoking bullies. The health aspects of smoking are simply a convenient excuse.You could argue that two wrongs don't make right and I would be inclined to agree. However, you must remember that the arrogant attitude of smokers in generations past is directly linked to the hostile attitude of non-smokers today. I think you hit the nail on the head regarding attitudes towards smokers now. We are paying for the sins of our ancestors. Why do we now have to suffer because of what happened 20 or 30 years ago? Is it our fault? NO! You just can't tell that to people now, because they don't care. To hell with the rights of straight white english speaking males, they are the cause of all the grief for every minority or oppressed people. If they smoke, they are just one step worse than the rest.

There's the rub: people can choose whatever risks they want. But I don't choose to inhale second hand smoke. Again: no one is saying you can't smoke, only that you can't do it in a place where others are exposed (just like no one is saying you can't drink yourself to death, but if you put others at risk, say, by getting behind the wheel, that's a no-no). That's just ridiculous. Last I checked, drunk driving was illegal. All laws have a moralist basis. Are you also against drug laws? And yet a cigarette smoking urbanite is at a much higher risk of lung cancer than his non smoking neighbour. Why do you figure that is? I didn't say second hand smoke was worse than air pollution overall. I said 2nd hand smoke is more likely to cause cancer. Stats (USA) Canada Anti-smoking laws are not arbitrary. Nor are they excessive. They are no more oppressive than speed limits. Trouble is, the reverse logic applies: if you want to smoke, stay home where you won't expose others to it. Now, I'm in favour of leaving smoking to the discretion of individual business owners. That said, I enjoy my nights out much more now that the bars here have gone smoke free. From BD's link above. A non-smoker exposed to second-hand smoke has a 25% increased chance of lung cancer. Increased chances of cancer of the sinuses, brain, breast, uterine, cervix, thyroid, as well as leukemia and lymphoma are also noted. Health Canada estimates that more than 300 non-smokers die from lung cancer each year because of exposure to second-hand smoke. So, right there we have stats(thank you BD) and I bet drinking and driving kills MANY more people than that. Why can't we bring back prohibition? I vote to ban all drinking in public and maybe a future ban of the sale of ALL alcohol products in Canada. It is also funny to read that these 300 people are estimations, not hard facts because in reality, what other factors were involved in these same 300 deaths? So, Canada's response is to completely ban smoking in public?(not completely, but soon) for all of less than 0.000909% of the Canadian population who MAY have died as a result of second hand smoke. Does this sound screwed up or what? This is what communism will get you, bullshit laws based on NOTHING! I am not sure how we went from Red tory/blue tory to this, but this thread has really enlightened me to the bogusness of second hand smoke laws.

How can you tell me that second hand smoke is worse than air pollution?? Any stats to back that up? As far as it goes, does anyone have stats on the number of deaths directly related to second hand smoke? Anti-smoking laws are oppression in every sense of the word. What is wrong with smoking rooms, specifically for JUST smokers.(Of course some non smoker would feel his rights were violated because we are allowed such a room!) We don't need a waitress in that room, we just need a place to replace all that nasty fresh air in our lungs. If people don't want to breath it, stay away from places that allow it.... very simple(should be), but it is not that simple because the lefty world of protesters have found their cause of the day and smokers represent the evil in this world. I will continue to smoke in public, where I choose and they will have to fine me if need be.

What about drinking and how many people are killed by that? I agree with not smoking around children and I don't smoke anywhere near my daughter, but I call into question the actual number of people dying because of second hand smoke. I don't buy the bs propaganda that many will spew about it. I think there are many more risks that people choose everyday that are much worse for them. The funny thing is not one of you will tackle my alcohol question. Am I to assume that you people find it okay to kill people with drunk drivers, but not blow second hand smoke in their face? If we are taking on the evils of smoking, lets restrict drinkers too. Both are killing hundreds or thousands of people every year...apparently, right Geoff?

What I don't understand (never have, even when I smoked) is this sense of entitlement smokers have. I can see no other reason for their petulance over anti-smoking policies. Pollution (such as car emissions) is indeed nasty stuff. But that's the price, I suppose, of progress. Again, i'm all for policies that would ease or reduce traffic, pollution and car use overall. But I don't see how that's an argument against smoking restrictions. Lats I checked, public health issues are not a zero-sum equation. As for the KFC comparison, there's a world of difference between choosing to indulge in behaviours that harm yourself and engaging in behaviours that harm others. IOW, you can smoke your brains out at home, but once you start putting other people at risk, then that behaviour becomes fair game for legal sanction. Black dog, my point is....is the second hand smoke propaganda worth as much as people say it is?? Is it not more harmful to breath the poluted Toronto air than to inhale second hand smoke? Is the lady that just died(the famous waitress...forget her name?) a direct result of JUST second hand smoke? Were there other factors involved? (not that the media would report it to us anyway!!) I wouldn't call my beef with anti-smoking laws as a sense of entitlement, I just think the BS behind this "nasty habit" is severely overrated. I am NOT saying it is not bad for you, but what other factors could we avoid, that cause us just as much harm, have not been mentioned or considered. Nobody enjoys being oppressed, regardless of what thing the "big brother" would tell you not to do. If smoking was that bad, why does the government still allow the sale of tobacco and take in so many tax dollars because of the sale of it??? Lets ban it all, along with prohibition on alcohol too, because I have had so many friends killed by drunk drivers, but don't know one person who has died from "second hand smoke". As newbie says, my right to smoke stops where he/she/it breaths. Well newbie, the same should go, your right to drink should be restricted too, so me & my family are safe on our roads!!!! Don't tell me the fines and suspended licenses stop people from drinking & driving, it still happens everyday. Should we not ban it? If we are banning public smoking, because it kills at least 3 second hand smokers every few years, then drinking should be banned too!

Sorry, I just can't get into this "Stop Smoking" propaganda anymore than if the government started an "Eat Broccoli" campaign. Well, there are no anti-farting laws yet so how about if we smokers start eating lots of cabbage, onions, beans and all the other gas producing stuff. Letting it then rip in places where non smokers are basking in their smokefree enviroments, even the rabidest anti-smokers, given the choice, will let us smoke if we promise to stop farting. Or will the government enact anti-farting laws? Too funny Bib!! I am having beans tonight for supper for sure and then going to a non-smoking establishment and farting like a wildman! I wonder how hard on your health 24 hours of second hand smoke is versus, 24 hours of breathing Toronto air? I bet the results would be staggering. It just goes to show you propaganda is powerful shit for something so trivial as second hand smoke. All you fresh air freaks, head for KFC for 16.5 grams of saturated fat(triple the recommended daily dose) and clog the shit out of your arteries! I'll breath in my tobacco laden air and you fat bastards will still die first!!! LOL

Probably because you are so far left you can't even see the middle!

If it's not on private property, it's not vandalism. If the people who put it up felt it was okay to use public space for voicing their political view, I see no reason why someone can't do the same to the poster. Smoking is a choice. Race, gender or sexual orientation is not. Also: what laws are so oppressive? You're not being arrested, you'r enot being denied the right to smoke in your home or on the street. If you think laws prohibiting you from smking in certain places are tantamount to being treated as a second-class citizen, you have no idea what it means to be oppressed. So you promote vandalism if it is on public property?? Your parents never taught you respect for other people's property?? I think it is pathetic that people think this kind of thing is okay. The first smoke or first pack is a choice, after that, it's a way of life. You never been addicted to anything? Race & gender are not a choice, but lately I think people will choose their sexual orientation to get ahead. Homosexuality is a growing trend because they see how much stroke that homosexuals possess!! I find it hard to believe that you don't find this(smoking bans) to be oppression? With a statement like that, you have the nerve to call righties close minded, ironic!

I am not asking the gov't to step in as far as sexual orientation, just not allow same sex marriage. Who gives a shit whether they are gay or not, I just don't think we need to change the definition of marriage to accommodate 1% of the population. As far as abortion, it is in the same category as gay marriage. Neither will help stabilize the aging population and it is just another "women's rights" issue that causes grief for moral people. I do say in the case of rapes & deformities, there are more arguements for abortion, but abortion for convenience boggles the mind. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!" Yes the poster was in a public place, but I don't see the relevance of that. If the people who put it up got permission to put it up, people need to leave stuff alone. I know why people find my beliefs intolerant. It is because what used to be commonly acceptable isn't anymore, the word traditional is considered bigotry. I am not out to take anything away from anyone, but when rights are taken from me or rules changed because someone is offended, I have a problem with that. If I tried to change every law that offended me, I would have my life's work cut out for me. I hate the seatbelt law, but try to fight it is useless, because I am a white heterosexual male of english origin(damn my ancestors!). If a gay rights group or women's lib group or any minority decided that the seatbelt law was oppressive, it would get changed. I know the last part is not true, but it awfully seems that way. You may say nothing has been taken from me, just rights granted to people who deserve it, but I am a smoker and I am fully aware that it is not good for my lungs, but why should it be okay to treat me like a second class citizen because I smoke? If my lungs gave out, I am put to the bottom of the list for lung transplants, yet an obese person who wrecks there body by overeating or an alcoholic who wrecks his liver has a much better chance of getting transplants. Why is that? It seems like a form of oppression to me. I am addicted to cigarettes that were sold to me by my government, yet I don't deserve any respect because smoking is taboo? Should people who have reckless sex and catch diseases not get treatment? The smoking laws in Ont & Que are a form of oppression, but try changing those! Is the government intolerant to my feelings by making smoking in public illegal? Should I have a smokers rights march? Might be a short one because we'd all be out of breath!! What I am getting at is, there are lots of things that are intolerant & oppressive, but the only ones getting resolved are the ones for visible minorities, gays, french, natives & women.

I am definitely a social Conservative too Sam. The problem with telling the truth is, tolerance is the word for the week in Canada and if we say what we think we will be black-balled for it. For example, Gwyn Morgan is branded a racist for saying that many Haitians & Koreans cause crime.(God forbid) Canada has swung to the left alot over the past 30 years with the influence of guys like Trudeau and Chretien, yet their fiscal policies are very Conservative style. I am anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage and anti-drug as well as anti-terrorist, but we can not speak our mind because it is not acceptable to hardcore lefties and they rule the social circles in Canada. I find it funny for it to be called "hatred" and "ignorant" to be socially Conservative, yet when a large street poster was put up in my town, with a baby's picture with the slogan,"I am a child, not a choice", it lasted a week and someone vandalized it and marked it out and wrote PRO-CHOICE! Why do these people who call us intolerant, resort to vandalism to prove their point? I disagree with you saying the Red Tories need to join the Liberal party, because Kimmy is right, we'd be back to 60 seats(28 from Alberta...LOL) and on the wrong side of the house of commons. I do think we need to allow some of the policies of the social cons to come into the house of commons, because if we don't, our religious freedoms will be gone, unless of course, we are muslim!!! The soft centrist people are in definite majority in Canada and they will be swayed in different directions by the message of the day. Many are very wishy-washy and will go which way the wind blows and who sells the best at campaign time, regardless of the truth. This is the reason that telephone solicitors do so well in Canada, because some people will believe anything you tell them. It is sad that it has to be this way, but the media is very influencial in deciding elections. If you heard everyday that Stephen Harper is scary & eats kittens(LOL), eventually you will start to believe that he is in fact scary and not vote for him. The problem with the last election is the media was fed up with the Liberals cockiness and decided to ride them over things like the Sponsorship Program and mismanagement of public money and people bought it and voted in Harper. If Harper falls out of love with the media, like it has been lately, he will not likely get voted back in.(If the Liberals actually find a leader) The Liberals are better at telling people what they want to hear instead of the truth. If social Conservatives want the current gov't to be in power for longer than a week, we have to keep our true feelings quiet, because in today's standard we are considered bigots. We need the Red Tories to do the talking, which is probably why Harper has told his caucus to not talk to the press! The more I watch the news lately, the more I socially Conservative I become and I know it is not right, but tolerance for me is wearing thin, I am truly tired of people claiming to be oppressed, yet all our laws are changed for their few causes. Maybe my beliefs are American because there are no more team players in Canada, just solo superstars! At this point I am okay with being called a bigot for standing up for what I believe!

This is just ammo for the lefties to say that Harper eats kittens!