Derek 2.0

I’m surprised about Belgium and Luxembourg…..that’s interesting.

....Confirmed that a surface to air missile was launched in Eastern Ukraine……..I don’t think there is any doubt of that fact.

Does their “evidence” also absolve themselves from any potential mistake? It would be either the FSB or Army…….both organizations have near centuries worth of built-in distrust. What other sources? The Russians could stop energy shipments near instantly……it would take years for the Europeans to find these other sources……..Such a reduction in energy would devastate the European economy. .....as facts obtained by Ukraine to date indicate. So the evidence against Russia is information obtained by their adversaries and a posting on the Russian Facebook?

If Putin were killed in such a manner, I wouldn’t discount the possibility.

Can you say that with 100% certainty? If yes, based on what? Evidence provided by the Ukrainians? So there is a potential upside for the Ukrainians………As to Russia crushing them, if the intended target were Putin himself, and they were successful, as I said prior, I doubt Russia as a State would have the wherewithal to invade the Ukraine and would likely be contending with yet another civil war. I highly doubt Russia would have directly shot down the flight, but not for fear of sanctions from the West……When Europe as a whole rely upon Russia for ~30% of their oil and ~40% of their natural gas, an economic war is a war the Russians will win…….And of course, further strengthen Putin’s resolve internally and allowing him to continue liberating other ethnic Russian populations in Eastern Europe. And that is very likely, but as you yourself confirmed, there is a potential upside for the Ukrainians. Elaborate story? Would you consider an elected President being overthrown by a segment of his people, alienating the segment of his population that he drew support from, resulting in a civil war as elaborate? What evidence? Not at all......

Everyone? Do you mean with unfettered restraint? In the vast majority of States (including Texas), CCW/CHL has some form of regulatory prerequisite mechanisms in place, with the assumption that the onus is on the State to prove why an applicant shouldn’t ultimately have such a permit.

The same can’t be said of the Ukrainians? Moral, military, intelligence and most important of all, economic support from the rest of the World is hardly nothing. Russia has very little to lose in this entire conflict with a weakened United States and a neutered Europe……..With this incident alone, if it became proven that Russia had nothing to do with the shoot down, would the rest of the World suddenly embrace Russia? But of course, what would they stand to gain…….on the inverse, if the Ukrainians were the culprits and successfully shifted the blame onto the separatists, the Ukrainian labelled terrorists become an even greater pox. Remember, one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist…….. And said claim is based on “evidence” provided by the Ukrainians…hardly a non-biased source….could said evidence be faked? Could it be transcripts from the previous downing of a Ukrainian aircraft? I truly wonder what the actual electronic intercept capabilities of the Ukraine actually are…..were they not funding their recent campaign through public donations?

That’s a tactical weapon……the impunity was gained by knocking out the command and control facilities…..as often quoted of Powell, cutting the head off the chicken. Holes with the leadership of the Iraqi armed forces…….again, the head of the chicken. Everything, this was the threat that lead to the development of the three tanks we’re discussing, and in turn, the threat that the Iraqi army was modelled after. How many armoured engagements has the Leo II been involved in again? What is the kinetic energy transfer from a conventional sabot round fired from a Leo 2A6, versus the DU sabot fired from the Abrams? If you wish to get into a discussion on ballistics I will gladly oblige you….. A subjective term if there ever was one……What are the key differences between the onboard computers, fire control systems and communications of the M1A1 Abrams and the M1A2? I never said that it couldn’t……you’re the one with the unfounded claim that it could as effectively as an Abrams though. Ahhh, but indirect fire-support and engagements with other tanks are only a few of the facets encompassing armoured warfare……we would need to look at the whole gamut, but of course we can’t with the Leopard II The Americans don’t build trainers and APCs? Following your meme, the Egyptians should have been purchasing Hawks and Bradleys with their American credit card….. Care to retell the fate of the Afrika Korps? It shared much the same fate as Sadat's army in '73.......

Do you know the history and paranoia enshrined in the politics of Russia post 1917? There has been numerous precedents set for nearly 100 years in Russia. Why is that though? Simply put, opinions on the culprits of this incident are being formed by Western media and Governments, through information largely obtained from the Ukrainians……..Frankly, I “trust” the Ukrainians as much as I trust the Russians……..

Or several factions, with a long standing institutional distrust of each other, could attempt to grab the reins……I feel, if Putin were killed, the Russians could very well be dealing with their own internal crisis and having no time, nor ability, for punitive action against the Ukraine.

An interesting opinion piece from a former police officer and member of the California State Assembly: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/07/02/6527524/viewpoints-solution-to-violence.html

Who is Putin’s successor? Nature abhors a vacuum........Especially in Russia.

Of course both the Russians and Ukrainians armies are inundated with ethnic groups that don’t particularly like the thought of a strong centralized Russian empire led by Putin.

Very good point.........

I would say Europe’s dependency on Russian energy exports in very relevant to this conversation.

I don’t have one, since there is clearly little information available to make one as of yet.

What’s the difference between a Russian, Russian speaking Ukrainian, a Crimean Tartar and a Ukrainian separatist supported by Russians?

Contrasted with legacy types, it will most certainly transmit the sound of angels…. What allowed them to operate with impunity in one of the most heavily defended airspaces that the World has ever seen? The targets that it attacked, namely ones of inherent strategic value. So in effect, the F-35 is also the best deal for Canada……… That was the intended battleground of the three Western tanks we’re discussing……And though the Soviet Tank regiments were predominantly armed with T-80 and T-72 tanks, the far more numerous Soviet and Warsaw Pact Motor Rifle Divisions were centered around older types. But of course that is the intent and reason why the Americans and West invested in rapidly growing (and expensive) technology, for they knew that they would never compete against the Soviets in terms of numbers…… How are they peers then if they haven't faced the ultimate test and used in their intended way? As I said, my brother is currently a crew commander and was trained in Munster on the A6 by the Heer and deployed on the first Roto of both Leopard Is and IIs…….My second hand knowledge is more extensive on the subject then your second hand knowledge garned through Google This is very true, but numerous Abrams were hit by Iraqi tanks.........And engineers did use lessons in shock damage to the tanks computer/fire control system/comms and apply them to the more robust M1A2 program that followed after the Gulf war. The M1A2 didn't serve during the First Gulf war, and applied lesson learned from that very campaign into it’s design. You base that on what exactly? Not at all........Yet we still don’t know how the Leopard II would fair in actual armoured combat in a desert……. Perhaps you'd better step back if you're incapable of conversing sans personal attacks.....But to answer your question, certainly, the Egyptians acquired all sorts of non-American equipment post Camp David. Like the Germans?

That’s certainly an interesting point.

And the lack of diversity within Europe’s energy infrastructure is the fault of who?

I doubt it.......

Clearly you have proof?

I made that quite clear earlier.....nothing.

Why not? Crimean Tatars, like other ethnic communities within Russia and Ukraine, had mandatory military service, coupled with centuries of distrust of the Russians.

The NRA agrees, but privacy laws prevent that. Would you prefer if more American gun owners joined and formed Militias?