Rovik

The Liberals and NDP will vote against it while the Bloc will vote for it and in the process help the Conservatives pass it. The Liberals and the NDP will vote against it citing the Conservatives' abandonment of the National Childcare Program, the Kelowna Accord and environment initatives. The Bloc wull vote for it because they know they could get hit hard and lose many seats in an early election. So there it is. The separtist Bloc will keep the Conservatives in power for a while longer.

This maybe true for some of the Canadian media especially central Canada. Part of this is that Harper did have more "extreme" views such as when he was head of the NCC. Many may believe that these views will resurface again in the future and that the reason why he is keeping them under wraps is the fact that the Conservatives don't have a majority. At the same time, the Western Canadian media has always been on Harper's side (for the most part.) Just like they have been critical of Martin and the Liberals when they were in power, and rightly so in many cases. Yes, he has been successful in keeping the more colourful caucus members silent to the media as well as keeping the media at bay overall. Because of this approach, many see him as dictatorial. Time will see if he is successful or not. Sounds a little antagonistic for someone who 'respects' other people's opinion. Yes, it may be obvious but it is true. The reason I added that quote is because in my experience of posting and reading other posts, I have seen such attacks on a regular basis. Of course I should have qualifed that quote by saying some right wingers not all. And yes, I do admit there may be some left wingers who do the same

Partisan? I'm not following any party lines here. It's my own personal decision. And I don't hate Harper. I supported his stand on accountibility during the election. Too bad, it was all smoke and mirrors. I also have to add that I was very pleased that Harper and the Conservatives stood up for the sealers against celebrities such as Pamela Anderson and the McCartneys. So, no I don't hate Harper and the Conservatives, only a lot of their policies and it's not hate, it's disagreement, a fine distinction that. This is all conjecture. Unless John Reid actually comes out and says this so-called partisanism is true than people can't say with 100% certainty that "John Reid criticism of the Accountability Act has been exposed for the partisan farce" is true. I'm not saying that "Paul Martin's pathetic dithering while PM" was the correct course either. " And regarding blowing it as sad and lame, well another recent thread here is labelled "Liberals sink to new low." I'm not going to criticize it and say its "sad and lame." I'll respect her opinion, no matter if I do or do not support that view. In my opinion, they are blowing it...notice I haven't said blown it. Thye still have an opportunity to change my opinion and many more people's opinion as well. I don't see nothing wrong with CTV saying that because it more than likely is true and I'm pretty sure not put there so CTV can punish the Conservatives. Look at this way, if the Conservatives were polled at 17%, then the Conservatives decided to give everyone in Canada a $1000 cheque, and CTV (hypothetically) came out and said the polling might be lot different now, would this be wrong? Hmm..international role re-affirmed? In what way? More than likely to do what the Americans want us to do?...like possibly missile defence? Harper open to missile-defence talks with U.S. I remember back around '90, when talking to a Brit girl on vacation here in Canada. She said to me that her and many of her friends considered Canada the virtual 51st state. I believe this thinking changed in many foreigners' eyes during the last 10 years but will it change back. Don't get me wrong, if the US proposes agreements or partnerships that benefit Canada then I'm for it, but policies like missile defence are not one of them (I believe I talked about this in one of these threads a long while back so I won't get into detail) Military re-established. How? Being there on the front lines with the Americans instead of our traditional role as Peacekeepers. I don't see this as a good thing in the long run. Though I do agree with many when they say that the military should be modernized and buildup...for peacekeeping purposes. Other nations perception of us will be a lot different when we are on the front line instead of peacekeeping and the view won't be for the better. Kyoto on the back-burner. Terrible mistake, The world will suffer and what happens when the Earth's climate goes beyond the point of no return. What will we say?..."well we should have done something about it a long time ago but it's too late now" and our descendents will suffer because of it. Budget in place. At what price? What important social programs will be cut back or eliminated to pay for the Conservative's policies. Softwood lumber resolved. Resolved in good way or bad? See my first post in this thread on this. Opponents and provinces off-balance. Yes breaking govt deals that provinces thought were in place such as affordbale daycare or befuddling opponents after accepting Emerson as a cabinet minister and putting an unelected senator in the cabinet, this after the Conservatives pushed ethics as one of their main themes in the election. Media eating crow. There have been times in the past that I perceived bias in the media but at the same time you don't want to upset them too much. They have a powerful influence on people's opinion, especially around election time Actually, only the thread starter was bashing Harper, the rest of the responses were generally positive, fair-minded critiques, IMO. Bashing Harper. I haven't bashed him personally, he seems like a half-decent family guy. It's his government's policies that i am disagreeing with, not "bashing." "The thread's title is just wrong," in your opinion. In my opinion, it isn't wrong. Opinion and fact are quite different.

Though I was not a Conservative supporter, i still had high hopes for the Conservatives for cleaning up the government. But now it looks like the Conservatives might be just as bad (or even worse potentially) when it comes to accountibility. First it was the David Emerson and Senator Michael Fortier fiasco within the first few weeks of being elected and now it looks like Accountibilty Act that the Conservatives will push is full of holes that may make things worst than they all ready are. Accountability act 'a bureaucrat's dream,' information commissioner says Next they have gone the American way and decided to have barred media from covering fallen soldiers' return and not to have flags lowered to half mast. This to many Canadians is not respectful of what the soldier's sacrifice. One parent of a soldier who died criticized the Conservatives policy. Anyhow here is a link regarding the situation. Media barred from covering soldiers' return And a link re: the parent critisizing the Conservatives. Dead soldier's father criticizes Harper - from The Globe and Mail And now it seems that the Conservatives have made a bad deal re: softwood with the US. Sure, the US will even be able to keep 1 billion dollars of what many decisions by NAFO and WTO have said wasn't theirs and should be given back to Canada. Imagine if someone stole $50000 from you and even though the thief was told to give back all your money (continously), it was settled that he only had to give back $40000. Is this right? No. Canada, U.S. reach softwood lumber deal - from Globe and Mail There could even be a clause that may enable the US to veto on changes to provincial policies, which could even infringe on Canada's sovereignty. Softwood deal could pinch sovereignty - from Canoe And some of the US lumber producers may even sue Canada with this money. Lumber producers may sue Canada And if you add in Harper's iron grip on his caucus and the the Conservative's hands-off approach of the media, it doesn't look like a very good start for this government and again it's only early in the game. *Waiting for the right wingers here to pounch, they will defend the Conservatives right to the bitter end, no matter how bad the decisions made by the Conservatives are*

I could see this as a good thing for the NDP. Many people have liked the NDP in the past but weren't comfortable with the Union's influence on the NDP. If this latest development tells people that the Union's influence on the NDP is waning, then these people may feel more comfortable voting for the NDP in the future.

There are threads about "I am going to vote Conservative" and "I am going to vote Liberal," so it's only fair that someone had one for the NDP as well I think that the Libs are going to take a hit tomorrow and it's a great opportunity for the NDP to step up and be the true foil to the CPCs. Who knows, perhaps even lay down a foundation towards winning the govt. one day. The Libs arrogance, self-entitlement, broken promises and fear-mongering have finally caught up with them and I say it's about time. I also believe that there are many centre-left minded people who remember the Libs swing right when they had majorities and believe that at heart, Martin's Libs are closer to the right than they are to the left. These people will see through the Liberal's lies of been the only "progressive" party out there.

It may be true about the Toronto media hating the Conservatives and bias towards the Liberals but one can also say that Western Canadian media (especially in Calgary) is equally bias towards the Conservatives and against the NDP and the Liberals.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. If the Conservatives win a minority govt., they would need another party to vote with them in a budget vote containing a GST cut. If the Conservatives wanted an all-party consensus, they should start with a complete cut of the GST on essentials such as children's clothing and books.

I got: 7 NDP 2 Bloc 2 Liberal 1 CPC

I don't think this will happen this time. In fact, I believe that many ex-Liberal voters will switch to the NDP. People see that Liberals are not the "progressive" party that they are pretending to be and will do anything to stay in government. I predict the NDP will win anywhere from 30-50 seats

Ed Broadbent in his last news conference before he retires, has blasted the Liberal's arrogance and hypocrisy Here's some quotes from his news conference "The only time they talked about being progressive is in the dying days of the campaign. It's the only time they use the word -- when they try to go after the votes of ordinary people who are indicating they're going to vote for the NDP. Well I can tell you that this time it's not going to happen." "The Liberal campaigning has been deeply offensive," Broadbent continued. "Offensive to women, offensive to workers, and offensive to members of the armed forces, and offensive to all Canadians for suggesting that a vote for anyone but themselves is not progressive. This, my friends, is the height of arrogance. It is clear the Liberal Party no longer has the moral authority to deserve people's votes. Their cynical manipulation … will not work this time." Here's the link from the CTV news site Link The link to video of the conference is also on this site. I can't believe people will be manipulated again by the Liberals. I would hope that people who aren't willing to vote for the Conservatives can see through the Liberal's rhetoric and scare-mongering and see the arrogance, corruption, the broken promises and the fact that many of the Liberal MPs, including Martin himself are against SSM and abortion, yet the Liberals say they support them..hyprocrisy at its worst.

It's looking less and less a Conservative majority but still in the realm of a minority, but a big minority or small minority remains to be seen.

The NDP are not Marxist. I gathered by Shoop's broad statement that he meant never as in never perpetually. My apologies to you and to Shoop, if he meant only this election. I can't comment because I'm not sure what you mean by "investors investing in government" and I don't want to mistake what you are trying to say? Can you explain a bit more?

It's funny, many Conservatives have accused the Liberals of been arrogant, yet your statement borders on arrogance itself. I'd say the statement is pure fact...the NDP has no economic platform, don't understand what Bay St. is there for, and merely serve to make the left feel they have a voice in a world that cannot and will never make Marxism any more realistic than it was fifty or 250 years ago. Really? Then what was in NDP's platform....crossword puzzles? You're talking about the wrong party by the way. I did a Google search and find the link for the Marxist Party of Canada. Here's the link if you want to check it out Link And by the way, you must be a psychic to know the future, you must be by saying "I'd say the statement is pure fact" which says the NDP will never form government.

It's funny, many Conservatives have accused the Liberals of been arrogant, yet your statement borders on arrogance itself.

You haven't mentioned that his budget will not run a deficit and they have said that they will change the amount of monies allocated if the economy changes, therefore not run a deficit. Even economists say the budget will not run into deficit going by today's economy. That great for places like Alberta and parts of Ontario where there are lots of manufacturing jobs with easy access to markets such as the US, but in poorer places like Newfoundland, govt. plays an important role. There is oil here yes. but Newfoundland benefits very little compared to Alberta when it comes to oil. And we're so far away from the US, that manufacturing jobs are few compared to Ontario. Salaries are much lower, opportunities are not as high and what has kept Newfoundland going for hundreds of years, fishing has been mismanaged by Federal Conservative and Liberal parties over the years resulting in the industry is a shadow of what it once was. Often many of the jobs (such as fishing and forestry), especially in rural areas, are seasonal and people rely on EI to survive when they are not working. Business here often demands govt money to survive here, such as Abitibi Price (Forestry company.) In fact, many startup businesses will often demand a tax holdiay to come here and it has happened that companies have up and left after the tax holdiay has expired. What you suggest would wipe out rural Newfoundland (most which are one industry towns.) St. John's and the surrounding area are an exception and is doing well but again it's an exception compared to most of Newfoundland. Newfoundland and other poorer regions of Canada is not like Alberta or southwestern Ontario and circumstances warrant that a different approach is required. Therefore, this is just one of the many reasons for strong social programs because business is not the magic bullet for all regions in Canada.

I don't believe that the NDP are as far left as you believe they are. Regarding taxes, the NDP hasn't pushed for new taxes this campaign, and NDP provincial govts. in Manitoba and Sask. have ran balanced budgets without big raising of taxes. I believe it's a scare tactic that non-NDP supporters will always use and the only way the NDP will ever beat this misleading rap would be to out-Conservative the Conservatives.

How old are you? 90? You can't predict such a thing. No one knows what the politcal landscape will be in 5. 10. 25. 50 years. Who knows? Maybe even the Green Party may be a big player years fron now, one never knows. August1991: The NDP also has a chance in the Outremont district in Quebec. Now, I'm not saying it will happen and I'm sure Conservatives in Alberta and the Bloc in Quebec might say it will never happen, but there is a chance and no one can deny that. And if it did happen, it would be quite something. Just imagine, a NDP seat in a sea of blue in Alberta (Again, I'm sure there are Conservatives here that will say it will never happen, but i say. "never say never.")

This is true and I see it happening in this election campaign sadly.

What you are suggesting goes against their own Code of Ethics. Read the Code of Ethics from this site Link to Society of Professional Journalists Webpage to see what I mean. I perceive a huge media bias towards the Conservatives in this election, just as there may have been towards the Lberals in the last election and again, i think this is wrong and against their own Code of Ethics. Look at the media today. How many of them are perceived as left/right wing rags? They obviously had to slant one way or the other to get those monnikers. So, since when has ethics had anything to do with it. What's the difference between being slanted and lying about it and being slanted and being intellecually honest enough to admit it? I think he who admits his bias is of higher integrity than he who lies about it. You're absolutely right! I take back what I said about agreeing with Rovik. Tis true come to think of it. If it's against ethics, why would any paper want to be perceived as left/right-leaning? I guess, it is about news reporting that a journalist had to be accurate and straightforward....but editorials and comments are a different matter. Media, be it paper or electronic are turning away from their ethical roots to gain readers or viewers. Media Sensationism and many of media's tendancy to lean left and right results in their sacrificing their objectivity and fairness. Today, it all about the gaining sponsors and the money, sad to say. And even news reporting can skew the truth one way or the other, all you have to do is look at the coverage of wars in recent history to see this is so.

To say a vote is a wasted vote is insulting to our democractic system and the electorate as whole. Doesn't matter who you vote for, a vote is a citizen's right in a democratic society like Canada and there is never such thing as a wasted vote. And to your assertion that a NDP is wasted vote; this is typical of Conservative and Liberal's scare tactics to stop people from voting NDP. I believe that the NDP is a best alternative to the corrupt Liberals and the right wing agenda of the Conservatives.

Well if CBC is bias toward the Liberals, than that would be wrong as well. Though I had to admit, the CBC has been much more balanced toward all three parties than CTV has. Craig Oliver and Robert Rife have been praising the Conservatives and must of their political columnist guests have been pro-Conservative, so yes, I say huge.

I say that the NDP are glad that he is in Martin's corner not Layton's. I believe Layton said, when asked about Hargrove, was along the lines that Hargrove is out of touch with most Canadians.

What you are suggesting goes against their own Code of Ethics. Read the Code of Ethics from this site Link to Society of Professional Journalists Webpage to see what I mean. I perceive a huge media bias towards the Conservatives in this election, just as there may have been towards the Lberals in the last election and again, i think this is wrong and against their own Code of Ethics.

Yes, and the NDP will vote with the CPC on nearly everything for the first few months or longer. I don't think Harper will extort easily. The Liberals will be absorbed by a leadership convention for much of 2006, the Bloc will be preparing for a third referendum, and Layton knows he will be seen in a poor light if he takes Canadians to the polls anytime soon. Fingers will be pointed if we have a third election in three years. Clearish sailing for Mr Harper, for a while. I think Harper may try to narrow the definition of confidence votes by expanding the use of 'free' votes, and perhaps avoid early defeat that way. The NDP will only vote with the CPCs if it is something that the NDP supports themselves, for example govt. ethics. The NDP will not suppport any CPC motions that attacks the NDP's core values. And if the CPC go to the Bloc for support, people across the country may see this as the CPCs "getting into bed" with the separtist Bloc and there would be a backlash. I think that the NDPs would vote down the govt, doesn't matter if it's 1, 2 or 4 years within the CPC mandate to protect the core values that many Canadians also consider important. In fact, many would praise the NDP for standing up to the CPCs on this issue. I don't think the CPCs would bring up certain issues to vote anyway if they didn't have the support of either the NDP or the Liberals, because they would never go it alone with the Bloc for the reason I have already noted. What you define as extortion, I define as protecting Canadian core issues such as Healthcare, Education and Human Rights Issues such as SSM.