Deadly stampede at rally in Yemen

[DogOnPorch]

yes. And muslims don't always have stampedes either. There's always exceptions to rules.

I agree. Never said they did, in fact...but, Islam tends to be rather iconoclastic. More so than the other major religions. Comes from being the 'final word' on the subject, I suppose. It frightens some and confuses others that aren't part of the faith.

For example:

I used to live there for a few years back in the early 1970s...things have definately changed...my first reaction was shock. It does seem to have been taken over by a completely different culture other than Jolly Olde England...of which Blackburn was very typical.

Our turn I suppose...

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Never kick a man when he's down, he may get back up again.

---Sir Harry Flashman

[GostHacked]

And how!! Black Dog, if you knew of a regular event that presented a problem which was potentially life threatening, would you attend? That's what boggles me. Why do those folks attend these monstrous events if there's the potential to get killed or injured.

Religion and their beliefs.

The journey to Mecca is a pilgramige Muslims are to take at least onece in their lives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj

This practice is thousands of years old. Before Muhammed, and ... before Christ.

[buffycat]

Leave it to some here to make this tragedy into a bash all Muslims thread. News lows are struck here daily eh? What totally poor taste.

My feelings go out to those who lost their loved ones in what was obviously a poorly planned event in a dangerous location.

Edited November 1, 2007 by buffycat

[Guest trex]

Would you volunteer to attend a store-opening sale at an Ikea in Saudi Arabia?

Actually, the main difference betwen the Calgary Stampede and the Ikea Stampede (Saudi Arabia) and Hajj Stampede is the number of legs on the stampeders; two or four.

So you like to compare these people to cattle. Another difference is, in the Calgary stampede animals are used for entertainment. Yeeha look what a big man I am, I rides a horse and ties a steer.

And no need to alienate anyone else for stampedeing at a store for the purchase of commercial goods, it happens right here too. There have been incidents, fights, riots at various sale events, the christmas rush for the latest game console or plush toy.

[ScottSA]

I swear...the apologists crawling out of the woodwork to defend the most egregiously anti-liberal scourge since Attila the Hun are bending over backwards in conceptual contortions.

[jbg]

I swear...the apologists crawling out of the woodwork to defend the most egregiously anti-liberal scourge since Attila the Hun are bending over backwards in conceptual contortions.

Ain't it funny how they are so liberal on some things such as gay marriage and they support cultures that summarily execute gays?

Religion and their beliefs.

The journey to Mecca is a pilgramige Muslims are to take at least onece in their lives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj

This practice is thousands of years old. Before Muhammed, and ... before Christ.

And an Ikea store opening (link) has what to do with religious beliefs? Excerpts below:

Three die in Saudi shop stampede

Wednesday, 1 September, 2004

A stampede of hundreds of shoppers in western Saudi Arabia has left at least three people crushed to death. A Saudi man and a Pakistani man were among those killed, officials in the port city of Jeddah said.

The incident occurred after shoppers rushed into a branch of Ikea to claim a limited number of credit vouchers being offered to the public.

More than 8,000 people had gathered near the store for the $150 vouchers, some of them having camped overnight.

***********

One shopper among the crowd said barriers had broken and security guards were unable to cope. He likened the scene to crowds at a rock concert and said he'd never seen anything similar in the country before.

***********

[ScottSA]

And no need to alienate anyone else for stampedeing at a store for the purchase of commercial goods, it happens right here too. There have been incidents, fights, riots at various sale events, the christmas rush for the latest game console or plush toy.

Remind me...what's the death toll at Christmas from rushes for Polly Pockets, Cabbage Patch Kids, and Harry Potter Books? Please, fill me in on the equivalence of annual riots, massacres and stampedes by Muslims, to unseemly consumerist Christmas presses.

[Guest trex]

Remind me...what's the death toll at Christmas from rushes for Polly Pockets, Cabbage Patch Kids, and Harry Potter Books? Please, fill me in on the equivalence of annual riots, massacres and stampedes by Muslims, to unseemly consumerist Christmas presses.

Why should we make such a comparison, explain to me what would be the point of it first and I will show what you're asking.

[Guest trex]

Ain't it funny how they are so liberal on some things such as gay marriage and they support cultures that summarily execute gays?

What is funny is how you change the topic and bring in other things to try and justify your previous statements. Who is "they", how does this thread touch on the subject of executing gays now. Are these kind of evasive tactics intended to blow smoke and obscure your real intentions, to say that large groups of people in every country in the world are all violent criminals that should be feared by the rest of us? Because that would be stupid nonsense.

Who here is a homophobe enough to support the execution of gays, I would like to know. Please out yourselves. I suspect it would be the same ones who use broad encompassing statements to identify muslims.

[ScottSA]

Why should we make such a comparison, explain to me what would be the point of it first and I will show what you're asking.

You can't "show what [i'm] asking," because I'll be surprised if you can find one...never mind hordes.

[Moxie]

Remind me...what's the death toll at Christmas from rushes for Polly Pockets, Cabbage Patch Kids, and Harry Potter Books? Please, fill me in on the equivalence of annual riots, massacres and stampedes by Muslims, to unseemly consumerist Christmas presses.

I can't wait to read those articles on Christians stampeding each other to death.

I can't wrap my head around the Saudi Incident, allowing little girls to be burned alive is preferable to showing a few strands of hair? Jesus how @$$$ing barbaric are these Wahhabi Men?

[DogOnPorch]

I can't wrap my head around the Saudi Incident, allowing little girls to be burned alive is preferable to showing a few strands of hair? Jesus how @$$$ing barbaric are these Wahhabi Men?

You tell me...

Dispatches: Undercover Mosque

and...

Female 'British' Muslims trying to enter Mosques

Keep in mind that those in support of the Wahhabi sect in the UK have responded to this video saying that it is taken out of context. So when the Imam says: Throw homosexuals from the mountain top...he really means: Love everyone as your brother. How silly of us to not be so open-minded...damn bigots that we are...lol.

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I am certain that not only millions, but hundreds of millions, of Muslims are ready and willing to sacrifice their lives in order to defend the honor of their prophet.

---Hassan Nasrallah

Edited November 1, 2007 by DogOnPorch

[Guest trex]

You can't "show what [i'm] asking," because I'll be surprised if you can find one...never mind hordes.

I am prepared to give examples, but you must answer me first, which you are not dumb enough to go out on a limb to do. So don't waste time trying to evade the issue, I asked why such a comparison is even important, what exactly does it prove.

[jbg]

I can't wait to read those articles on Christians stampeding each other to death.

I think Rome had about 800,000 to 1,000,000 extra people for the Pope's funeral. Does anyone remember what the death toll was?¹

¹If I reall correctly one person did die of a heart attack. The question applies to the remaining death toll from stampedes, fights, etc.

[jbg]

What is funny is how you change the topic and bring in other things to try and justify your previous statements. Who is "they", how does this thread touch on the subject of executing gays now. Are these kind of evasive tactics intended to blow smoke and obscure your real intentions, to say that large groups of people in every country in the world are all violent criminals that should be feared by the rest of us? Because that would be stupid nonsense.

No, I am not changing the topic. I am pointing out that the so-called left-wing supports anything and everything harmful to the civic order with little rhyme or reason.

Who here is a homophobe enough to support the execution of gays, I would like to know. Please out yourselves. I suspect it would be the same ones who use broad encompassing statements to identify muslims.

I have never supported execution of gays. I do support execution of traitors.

[Wilber]

I think that many don't understand what these people are doing and where many of them come from. They are on a once and a lifetime pilgrimage. A great many of them come from very backward, poor parts of the world and it is the first and only time that they will travel anywhere outside the immediate vicinity of where they were born. Many have no idea of how to even operate something as simple as a flush toilet and now they are herded around and crammed into a strange place with tens of thousands of others like them who they can't understand and except for their religion are as strange to them as they are to us. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

[jbg]

Many have no idea of how to even operate something as simple as a flush toilet and now they are herded around and crammed into a strange place with tens of thousands of others like them who they can't understand and except for their religion are as strange to them as they are to us. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

That doesn't explain the Pakistani wedding stampedes, the Ikea stampedes, or the gunfire at Arafat's funeral.

[Peter F]

That doesn't explain the Pakistani wedding stampedes, the Ikea stampedes, or the gunfire at Arafat's funeral.

and that doesn't explain anything either.

[jbg]

and that doesn't explain anything either.

Whatever. People like you will never see a satisfactory pattern in the repeated gruesome violence, the grinding povery of the masses (despite oil wealth) and frequent wars involving the Muslims. It will always be someone elses' fault. (Link to thread on victimization issues)

[Black Dog]

The lack of stampedes at a packed Yom Kippur service has little to do with the "organizers". The people just come and go in an orderly manner.

How many people at a Yom Kippur service? Max? Again, I'm not sure the exact nature of these events, but it strikes me as the comparison between a organized religious service featuring a few hundred people and the Haji, which features a sudden influx of several thousand people, is a weak one.

Would you volunteer to attend a store-opening sale at an Ikea in Saudi Arabia?

How about London?

Actually, the main difference betwen the Calgary Stampede and the Ikea Stampede (Saudi Arabia) and Hajj Stampede is the number of legs on the stampeders; two or four.

Just give it up already. Of all the mini-jihads you've launched on this board, this is the weakest. When you throw in these types of comparisons, you look even sillier.

Ain't it funny how they are so liberal on some things such as gay marriage and they support cultures that summarily execute gays?

Unless you're suggesting some link between Islams more illiberal tendencies and the crowd control issues at Mecca, I fail to see the relevance of this drive by smear.

No, I am not changing the topic. I am pointing out that the so-called left-wing supports anything and everything harmful to the civic order with little rhyme or reason.

Boy, now you're seriously grasping at straws. Maybe a recap is in order: you started this whole business with your absurd observation that the Mecca stampedes are evidence of the savagery of Muslims (as opposed to the logical explanation, which is poor crowd control measures). So I'm not sure how pointing out the glaring flaws in your thesis is "support(ing) anything and everything harmful to the civic order". Were that the case, I'd expect to see more posts along the lines of "Woo! Yeah! More stampedes!" But strangely enough, there's no one saying any such thing. Nor is anyone, despite the claims of your ideological compadre ScottSA, defending Islam's policies vis homosexuality etc. So, what do you have left, other than egg on your face?

Edited November 2, 2007 by Black Dog

[jbg]

How many people at a Yom Kippur service? Max? Again, I'm not sure the exact nature of these events, but it strikes me as the comparison between a organized religious service featuring a few hundred people and the Haji, which features a sudden influx of several thousand people, is a weak one.

Close to a thousand, often over 1000. And the people haven't eaten or drank anything for 24 hours. They seem to exit in an orderly manner, despite no particular crowd control measures.

How about London?

Deaths?

Just give it up already. Of all the mini-jihads you've launched on this board, this is the weakest. When you throw in these types of comparisons, you look even sillier.

Can't take any humor? Sorry you're depressed.

Unless you're suggesting some link between Islams more illiberal tendencies and the crowd control issues at Mecca, I fail to see the relevance of this drive by smear.

Liberty requires some ability to exercise self-control. Much as liberty goes with orderliness and self-discipline, dictatorship goes with chaos, even though at first blush one would expect the opposite. Edited November 3, 2007 by jbg

[Peter F]

Liberty requires some ability to exercise self-control. Much as liberty goes with orderliness and self-discipline, dictatorship goes with chaos, even though at first blush one would expect the opposite.

Ah. Muslims are not mentally capable of accepting liberty and democratic ideals...you should have told the president that way back in 2003.

[jbg]

Ah. Muslims are not mentally capable of accepting liberty and democratic ideals...you should have told the president that way back in 2003.

Live and learn. Sigh.

[Black Dog]

Close to a thousand, often over 1000. And the people haven't eaten or drank anything for 24 hours. They seem to exit in an orderly manner, despite no particular crowd control measures.

So not even the size of a minor league hockey crowd. And you're comparing this to the Hajj, which draws two million participants?

Deaths?

Point? Is a stampede not a stampede unless someone dies?

Can't take any humor? Sorry you're depressed.

My sense of humour is fine. I just would think a Jew would be the last person to start comparing people to cattle.

Liberty requires some ability to exercise self-control. Much as liberty goes with orderliness and self-discipline, dictatorship goes with chaos, even though at first blush one would expect the opposite.

And this has what to do with gay marriage, now?

[jbg]

And this has what to do with gay marriage, now?

My point is that Muslims are generally not very pro-gay, unless your view is that two people (i.e. a person split in two at the neck) is greater than one.