Iran and Venezuela Plan Anti-U.S. Fund

[jbg]

Forgive me for saying that Hugo Chavez has a sense of humor, but he does. He is a socialist/Communist (or so he says), but he is now seeking to "underpin investments ... above all in those countries whose governments are making efforts to liberate themselves from the (U.S.) imperialist yoke,'' (link). I suppose it's suicide capitalism with an anti-Western bent. Other articles have detailed the sorry state of affairs for people in his country. While Chavez adventures, his people suffer.

In any event, this madman needs to be gone. Excerpts follow:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iran and Venezuela Plan Anti-U.S. Fund

By NATALIE OBIKO PEARSON

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuela's Hugo Chavez and Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - fiery anti-American leaders whose moves to extend their influence have alarmed Washington - said Saturday they would help finance investment projects in other countries seeking to thwart U.S. domination.

The two countries had previously revealed plans for a joint $2 billion fund to finance investments in Venezuela and Iran, but the leaders said Saturday the money would also be used for projects in friendly countries throughout the developing world.

``It will permit us to underpin investments ... above all in those countries whose governments are making efforts to liberate themselves from the (U.S.) imperialist yoke,'' Chavez said.

``This fund, my brother,'' the Venezuelan president said, referring affectionately to Ahmadinejad, ``will become a mechanism for liberation.''

``Death to U.S. imperialism!'' Chavez said.

Ahmadinejad, who is starting a tour of left-leaning countries in the region, called it a ``very important'' decision that would help promote ``joint cooperation in third countries,'' especially in Latin America and Africa.

It was not clear if the leaders were referring to investment in infrastructure, social and energy projects - areas that the two countries have focused on until now - or other types of financing.

*snip*

Chavez and Ahmadinejad have been increasingly united by their deep-seated antagonism toward the Bush administration. Chavez has become a leading defender of Iran's nuclear ambitions, accusing the Washington of using the issue as a pretext to attack Tehran.

Ahmadinejad, meanwhile, has called Chavez ``the champion of the struggle against imperialism.''

*snip*

[Shakeyhands]

sorry, he needs to be gone why?

[Black Dog]

and also: how? Chavez was just re-elected by the very people jbg claims are suffering under his rule (for interest here's some leading economic indicators of Venezuala). Also: say what you will about the ideology of those driving this venture, but the principle is the same as the U.S. funding opposition in Ukraine, for example, or Iran.

[blackascoal]

Didn't know this was here before I posted it in US Politics.

It isn't just Latin America lining up agaionst US imperialism .. so is much of the world and new allainces against us are forming.

It is another clear sign of the total failure of the war on "terror" and the end of the American Century.

[jbg]

It is another clear sign of the total failure of the war on "terror" and the end of the American Century.

And what country has more to offer the world than the US?

[Canadian Blue]

Apparently China, Iran, and Venezuela!!!

[Wilber]

Apparently China, Iran, and Venezuela!!!

Where would China be without the US to buy their products? As the world biggest consumer of oil, where would the price of oil be without the US and where would the economies of Iran and Venezuela be? Where would Canada be without the US to sell our products to?

[Remiel]

Those kind of questions do go both ways...

I guess I should edit this to add some real dialogue...

Anyway, regardless of what you personally think of Chavez, you should be able to agree that he is no where near his Iranian counterpart on the criminally deranged scale. Which makes his alliance with said deranged Iranian somewhat confusing, unless you consider he may be swallowing any distaste he has for the fellow in order to further strategic objectives.

Objectively speaking, if you are Hugo Chavez and you despise Imperialist US (which in this context I mean as a portion of the US psyche, not individuals), you are probably limited in terms of allies who can afford to help further your agenda. If you are willing to let your unscrupulous side take over, allying with Iran on economic issues does make a certain amount of sense in terms of strategic goals. So, the question becomes, where else could Chavez have found a receptive audience willing to part with funds from their coffers? Being in the position he is in, could he have afforded not to align with Iran?

I doubt more than a tiny proportion of Venezuelas population is Muslim, which given the Iranian presidents radical views, probably makes them fleeting bedfellows at best, with a strategic relationship that is currently prioritized over pronounced differences in ideology... ( Latin American independance versus... well, Armageddon. I doubt there is a serious argument that can be made for Chavez wanting either the end of the world, or large-scale genocide. Not that some of the less... reputable posters here will try to make one... )

[Wilber]

Those kind of questions do go both ways...

How so? If you don't have a market for what you sell, you are poor. The more competition for your goods, the higher the price you can command. Lose your biggest customer, prices plummet and you are poor.

[jbg]

sorry, he needs to be gone why?

The Monroe Doctrine. It's good. Google it. Read it.

[jbg]

Objectively speaking, if you are Hugo Chavez and you despise Imperialist US (which in this context I mean as a portion of the US psyche, not individuals), you are probably limited in terms of allies who can afford to help further your agenda. If you are willing to let your unscrupulous side take over, allying with Iran on economic issues does make a certain amount of sense in terms of strategic goals. So, the question becomes, where else could Chavez have found a receptive audience willing to part with funds from their coffers? Being in the position he is in, could he have afforded not to align with Iran?

His country's road that connects the airport to Caracas (carcass??) has been out for two years or so. They need that kind of stuff before a lot of hifalutin revolutionary rhetoric.

I doubt more than a tiny proportion of Venezuelas population is Muslim, which given the Iranian presidents radical views, probably makes them fleeting bedfellows at best, with a strategic relationship that is currently prioritized over pronounced differences in ideology... ( Latin American independance versus... well, Armageddon. I doubt there is a serious argument that can be made for Chavez wanting either the end of the world, or large-scale genocide. Not that some of the less... reputable posters here will try to make one... )

No, he'll settle for taking Castro's role on the world stage when he goes to his deserved end.

[Remiel]

( I added to my previous point. )

Where would the U.S. be without China to reliably supply their cheap goods? Where would the U.S. be without foreign reserves of oil to draw upon? Where would the U.S. be without the extra resources provided by Canada, and without the relatively receptive market it provides? Individually, it would probably fare better than the other country involved, but cumulatively, it would be just as screwed.

[Remiel]

You mean, like New Orleans needed support from the government, rather than their empty rhetoric about Iraq?

In any case, the bridge has been out for one year, and their is a two-lane access to the airport. Inadequate, yes, but you hardly presented the entire picture. Completion of the new bridge is expected for the second half of this year.

[Wilber]

( I added to my previous point. )

Where would the U.S. be without China to reliably supply their cheap goods? Where would the U.S. be without foreign reserves of oil to draw upon? Where would the U.S. be without the extra resources provided by Canada, and without the relatively receptive market it provides? Individually, it would probably fare better than the other country involved, but cumulatively, it would be just as screwed.

Yes, without the US they would all be screwed. No other country is that important on its own. Any other country could fall off the face of the earth and not have near the impact. A lot of people don't like that idea but it is true for the forseable future.

[Remiel]

The idea of a country suddenly disappearing however is not exactly an exercise in reality. To say that the sudden loss of the U.S. would have the most impact on the world might be true, but it also a completely meaningless assertion.

[jbg]

The idea of a country suddenly disappearing however is not exactly an exercise in reality. To say that the sudden loss of the U.S. would have the most impact on the world might be true, but it also a completely meaningless assertion.

The Mayans.

[Remiel]

Don't be so disingenuous, jbg. You know as well as I do that your example isn't really the kind of disappearance we're talking about here.

[Wilber]

The idea of a country suddenly disappearing however is not exactly an exercise in reality. To say that the sudden loss of the U.S. would have the most impact on the world might be true, but it also a completely meaningless assertion.

No might about it. The US is the biggest single market in the world by far and as its biggest trading partner, Canada would be screwed the most.

[jbg]

The idea of a country suddenly disappearing however is not exactly an exercise in reality. To say that the sudden loss of the U.S. would have the most impact on the world might be true, but it also a completely meaningless assertion.

No might about it. The US is the biggest single market in the world by far and as its biggest trading partner, Canada would be screwed the most.

The idea of a country suddenly disappearing however is not exactly an exercise in reality. To say that the sudden loss of the U.S. would have the most impact on the world might be true, but it also a completely meaningless assertion.

The Mayans.

Don't be so disingenuous, jbg. You know as well as I do that your example isn't really the kind of disappearance we're talking about here.

Don't be so serious. Not all my jokes are about Canadians' mis-spelling of English words, or propensity to mix in French to create a mongrel language (one of your PM's was famous for that).

[jbg]

double post

[Remiel]

Fair enough I guess, jbg.

Still, I am hoping someone can offer their own strategic analysis of what they might do in Chavez shoes (using his prejudices, not theirs).

[Black Dog]

The Monroe Doctrine. It's good. Google it. Read it.

What does the Monroe Doctrine (essentially a declaration of U.S. hegemony over the Americas) have to do with this?

[jbg]

The Monroe Doctrine. It's good. Google it. Read it.

What does the Monroe Doctrine (essentially a declaration of U.S. hegemony over the Americas) have to do with this?

Iran's rank interference in the West, and Venezuela's interference with other countries.

[Catchme]

It seems then, that there is only 1 country, who some find it accpetable of meddling, and that is the USA's meddling in other country's. Talk about hypocrisy.

[Figleaf]

Forgive me for saying that Hugo Chavez has a sense of humor, but he does. He is a socialist/Communist (or so he says), but he is now seeking to "underpin investments ... above all in those countries whose governments are making efforts to liberate themselves from the (U.S.) imperialist yoke,'' (link). I suppose it's suicide capitalism with an anti-Western bent. Other articles have detailed the sorry state of affairs for people in his country. While Chavez adventures, his people suffer.

In any event, this madman needs to be gone. Excerpts follow:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iran and Venezuela Plan Anti-U.S. Fund

By NATALIE OBIKO PEARSON

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuela's Hugo Chavez and Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - fiery anti-American leaders whose moves to extend their influence have alarmed Washington - said Saturday they would help finance investment projects in other countries seeking to thwart U.S. domination.

The two countries had previously revealed plans for a joint $2 billion fund to finance investments in Venezuela and Iran, but the leaders said Saturday the money would also be used for projects in friendly countries throughout the developing world.

``It will permit us to underpin investments ... above all in those countries whose governments are making efforts to liberate themselves from the (U.S.) imperialist yoke,'' Chavez said.

``This fund, my brother,'' the Venezuelan president said, referring affectionately to Ahmadinejad, ``will become a mechanism for liberation.''

``Death to U.S. imperialism!'' Chavez said.

Ahmadinejad, who is starting a tour of left-leaning countries in the region, called it a ``very important'' decision that would help promote ``joint cooperation in third countries,'' especially in Latin America and Africa.

It was not clear if the leaders were referring to investment in infrastructure, social and energy projects - areas that the two countries have focused on until now - or other types of financing.

*snip*

Chavez and Ahmadinejad have been increasingly united by their deep-seated antagonism toward the Bush administration. Chavez has become a leading defender of Iran's nuclear ambitions, accusing the Washington of using the issue as a pretext to attack Tehran.

Ahmadinejad, meanwhile, has called Chavez ``the champion of the struggle against imperialism.''

*snip*

What's the big problem with that? You're calling Chavez a madman on pretty thin grounds.