I'm multicultural...

[Visionseeker]

So, we're left with "multiculturalism". A word or term without precise definition. The world is wrong? Your life is awry? Blame multiculturalism. It's more polite than blaming the Jews.

Hammer, nail, head, BANG!

[geoffrey]

I've cooked it.

You also missed it.

--

August, I think your right on with your criticism of Mike's post. Canada isn't a singular culture, so how can one adapt to it? In simplistic, Trudeauist, CBC terms, we at least have Quebec and English Canada. I'll take that further. BC is clearly a distinct culture, as is Alberta... Saskatchewan and Manitoba form another, Ontario on it's own, plus Toronto, than Montreal and then the rest of Quebec and then Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and PEI. All being unique cultures.

Mike is right when he says language isn't all that defines culture. I think you eventually come to this conclusion in your post, though not outright saying it.

Mike would struggle with Canadian culture in Vancouver... where Chinese people leave their garbage to rot in the alleyways in China town. He probably also wouldn't be happy with the immoralistic Calgary Red Mile during Flames playoff runs. Or the fact that people sit and yap in Tim Hortons in Saskatchewan all day long. He seems to be comfortable with Toronto culture though.

Just to inform Mike... as I'm someone that's lived in Manitoba, in Quebec, in New Brunswick, in Ontario and finally in Alberta... his culture in Toronto is alot closer to that of Quebec's than it is to our's in Alberta.

Someone adapted to Toronto culture and customs is certainly not someone adapted to Calgary. 7-4 work days? What the hell is that? The right lane essientially being the fastest on freeways? Huh? Beef being required in every meal... what? A downtown that is empty by 5 everynight? Eh? Going back to Ontario this summer was actually suprisingly a culture shock. And not because of the size of the city (I frequently am in Vancouver). It's actually quite different culturally.

The problem with Canada is not the cultural mosaic, but the government attempting to create one. If the government just allowed people to adapt and interact freely, we wouldn't have these issues.

[mikedavid00]

I've never been to Brazil, but it sounds like a truly multicultural country to me! Open to many cultures, and accepting of the new cultural milieu created.

Immigration to Brazil

Brazil has what most countries had at that time: historical immigration. Basically if you land in another country you can live there. Italian Americans are historic immigrants. They simply don't have direct ties to Italy and cannot speak Italian.

Go to Italy and you will find a bunch of soft, feminine girly men who barely eat, are skinny, like soccer and don't say 'eh yo east side mario's'.

Thus American Italian is a false culture. It's a sham. It's not real Italian culture.

[mikedavid00]

It is, but that doesn't do much good for the culture of the permanent underclass.

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/docs/muello1.html

Ok look. Brazil is not multicultural. Look at their immigration policy. You simply aren't allowed to just move there. It's wont happen.

Brazil is a harsh melting pot that has absolutely no tollorence for other cultures (like most other countries).

In Japan, if you are the RARE person that EVER becomes a citizen, you have to pick a Japanese last name. They wont let you keep your own.

There's a reason why the rest of the world believes in the melting pot theory aside from 3 countries (Canada, UK, Australia).

The melting pot has proven to work. Multiculutrulism is a failed experiment that the UK has recognized.

[mikedavid00]

1. Assimilationists want individuals to hide or bury their identities and assimilate into a different ‘Canadian culture’. Assimilationists believe that it is best to join the dominant culture which they consider the winning team.

This has proven to work through history. It's a safe bet IMO.

2. Elitists feel superior to other cultures and see themselves as members of the upper class who rightfully, are the legitimate holders of power. They believe in maintaining the status quo or keeping things the way they have always been. Other cultures are considered burdensome. Multiculturalism may tolerate those other cultures and deal with them without disrupting the status quo.

Yes this is our politicians and a lot of Libearls on this forum who think they are just a 'plate of jerk chicken'. I find them a serious threat to Canada's livelyhood and understand how many jobs and school seats they take away from Canadians. I have seen this first hand so many times. Just recenenty at my fiance's work they hired a goan indian immigrant to be a MANAGER at their work. Her FIRST WEEK there and she has taken the day off today (a Friday) and people are already frustrated with her. She got the job over several, much more qualified Canadians. Why were the Canadians more qualified? Because they can speak English. End of story. But no. Her company had to place all their credance on paper qualifications and try to judge the book by its cover. And now a Canadian has lost another high paying job to an immigrant that simply wasn't needed in Canada to begin with. A woman just here on a marriage.

Any women reading this unemployed wondering why they are having a tough time getting a job? The above is the reason why. I have numbers to back it, please don't argue me on this.

5. Victims believe the society owes them some form of compensation or apology because they are suffering from the generational impact of previous oppressions. Victims dislike assimilationists and they do battle with elitists. As examples they point to slavery, the internment of the Japanese during the Second World War, restriction of Asian immigration, the exploitation of East Indian labour, and more recently the labelling of terrorism for people from the Middle Eastern Countries.

Yes and that is the majority of immigrants. "I can't get a white collar job because everyone in Alberta is a racist!".

6. Seclusionists are members of a distinct community who strongly believe they should protect themselves from racial, cultural and ethnic group contamination that would diminish their character and the quality of their own group’s experience. They often use the words “those people” to characterize people from other cultures which is a form of overt racism.

Can we say Asian people??

7. Cultural Centrists seek to improve the welfare and competitive strength of their own group by accentuating their history, bolstering their identity and creating communal infrastructure as bridges to other cultures. They are proud of their cultural heritage and seek to represent it in public forums and interpersonal relationships.

These are called south asians. They are Desi and proud. You are just an outsider. They will dominate us politically.

8. Integrationists want to break down barriers between and among different cultures in order to bring them together as a single culture. They hope to create a new, better and superior Canadian culture for everybody from the hybrid of cultures.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE ME!

9. Transcendentalists generally focus on the similarity and commonality of all human beings including the human spirit. They believe in our ability to rise above or transcend the blindness of culture, race and ethnicity and form a colour-blind, race-blind and ethnic-blind society. Idealism and possibly spirituality underlie their belief.

Those are wacko libs in false denial.

10. Multiculturalists on the other hand celebrate the relationships between and among different or diverse cultures and they want to sustain the unique traits of each culture while they create a civil forum for dialogue and discussion about issues they consider important for reducing hate and intolerance within the population.

That is a falsehood and not possible. Like saying if you eat an apple you'll grow 10 feet tall. it's simply not possible. The ideal of this CREATES racism and segregation and then does not become multicultural.

Muliticultural is like a flawed, self defeating scientific theory. It's like 1.6666666....

[mikedavid00]

The problem with Canada is not the cultural mosaic, but the government attempting to create one. If the government just allowed people to adapt and interact freely, we wouldn't have these issues.

I guess we'll never know. Look what happend to France and Germany's problem.

The problem is mass immigration. Regardless of the social policy. The people determine the culture. Those wacko lib followers are not always multicultural trust me.

Actually I had an old co worker who was a lib. Nah. An NDP. Jack Layton would call his wife at home. His wife was a medical marijuana user. She was a total lefty.

But they couldn't stand Islam. They hated immigrants. The dude was Swedesh and he felt that if he mentioned that he was white that he would be a racist and such. He said he went to UofT for night courses and said he couldn't believe there was signs in Manderin.

His fiance tried to get back to school and the GPA kept her out i think. The seats just aren't there for Canadians because we prefer people from OTHER COUNTRIES.

Geoffery you know what? You're young. You haven't been around the block yet. You haven't lived through hardships. You were born at the right place at the right time and are benefitting from it right now. Everything is rosey through your eyes. Everything is good. Nothing can hold you down. This will cloud your judgement on certain things. Work is easy for you. Just work from home and get paid a bucket of money.

Yes I am doing well also. I've been employed for over 8 months now and love my job. But now that I'm older, I don't let the fact that things are really good for me get in the way of what is good for the country. I know what can happen. I know hard times. I know the struggle that each Canadian goes through. I know what that's about.

I know how it's like when a girl at my fiance's work lives paycheck to paycheck and when her toilet breaks cannot afford to fix it becuase her job PAYS NOTHING becuase there are so many immigrats saturating the job market keeping wages low and housing prices high.

You don't have a grasp of the larger issue and the economic issue. The healthcare.

Our borken healthcare system.

Immigrants in Alberta are needed. I suggest you guys take all of them and scratch your head when you realize 'gosh, people really aren't coming to Canada to work and pay taxes.'. Gee I was young and crazy back then. Ah I see.. people around the glob are taking advantage of an easy system and they vote Liberal. Ah I see.

Quebec is filled with French speaking immigrants and Chinese that were good at fooling the test to get into Quebec immigration. They never work, but rather hang out all day on the streets and in the mall. They are simply not needed in Quebec. But Argust would rather open a philisophical text book and read about theories of why it's good. But Quebec nor any other place on earth compares to how many immigrants we have here (%25 of Canada). There are no jobs, and they aren't needed. It's that simple.

Unskilled, migrant workers are needed in Alberta. BUT THAT'S ALL. I invite you to open your flood gates up to 200,000 people a year going there. Please do. Go ahead and I'll call you back in 10 years and see how your doing.

Just don't even think a CPC party will be in power at that time.

We need to take Canada back. If Quebec doesn't want to be a member of Canada then they can seperate into their own cosy country.

[Posit]

We need to take Canada back. If Quebec doesn't want to be a member of Canada then they can seperate into their own cosy country.

Wake up call for the resident racist:

You never owned Canada, nor have you ever really been in control of it, boy. Canada belongs to US - all of US - and we just let you stay here for our entertainment. If you have a problem with that then there is some land available in Mississippi that once belonged to KKK White Sheet, James Ford Seale. He no longer has a need for it since they convicted him in the 1964 death of Charles Moore. But you would fit right in and you wouldn't even have to hold ~anything~ back.

[bush_cheney2004]

...If you have a problem with that then there is some land available in Mississippi that once belonged to KKK White Sheet, James Ford Seale. He no longer has a need for it since they convicted him in the 1964 death of Charles Moore.

No need to travel that far.....plenty of KKK land is available in Saskatchewan (BOK) near Moose Jaw.

"Multiculturalism" includes the Klansmen Brotherhood!

[mikedavid00]

Canada belongs to US - all of US

Canada belongs more to the person that pays the most taxes. That's the way I see it.

If you don't pay taxes, or are livign off a gov't cheque in any form, then you should not get to vote.

Yes that goes for gov't workers too. The gov't unions voting is a conflict of interest. Think about it.

I pay taxes, I support the people in this country who don't work or work for the gov't (same thing).

Thus, myself and others like me should be calling the shots - not a city union or people crammed up in a Sikh temple who have never worked a day in their lives and spend all their time writing into ethnic newspapers thinking they are intellectuals and 'great people' on this earth.

And suprise, you would find that only 35% of Canadians would actually be eligable to vote in this country. But that's fair becuase it's US who support everyone else so you should have no say.

People like me and Geoffery who work and pay taxes have to support everyone else. If you don't contribute, you shall not vote.

End of story. There should also be a 10 year limit on citizenship before you are allowed to vote. Regardless of whether you pay taxes or not.

[Melanie_]

I can't believe we have 6 pages on whether or not MD00 is "multicultural". I know there is no doubt in my mind on the answer! It's time to stop feeding the troll.

[Canuck E Stan]

There should also be a 10 year limit on citizenship before you are allowed to vote. Regardless of whether you pay taxes or not.

And what should the penalty be for someone like you who has never voted,but seems to think it's a privilege to have that right?

[mikedavid00]

And what should the penalty be for someone like you who has never voted,but seems to think it's a privilege to have that right?

I've said before that voting should be mandatory as it is in Australia.

If less than 100 percent of people vote, then it's non democratic.

I just don't bother becuase I live in an Islamic riding and I have an Islamic representative so there's no point voting becuase I know whos' goign to win. I was worried that my riding might go conservative becuase of the ethnic schooling but I have 4 Liberal signs in view outside my house and not one conservative sign.

But this issue is so important that we're all going to go out and vote to be safe.

And no, the Pakistani's down the street do not work. One family i know for a fact came with their life savings from Dubai and bought a house some years back. They have 2 families living in the house. I was friends with a guy that used to live in the basement apt there. He lived there with his ailing, old, and sick Dad from Pakistan who had frequent emergency room visits and eye surgeries.

The family basically live off assistance and do nothing. Another family is strange. The wife doesn't work. That's a fact. She's very obese in her south asian clothing. I doubt she can speak English. She's Almost morbaly obese. She has like 4 kids living there. But what's weird is there is no man living there. None. It's the lady and these 4-5 kids. It's an odd setup. Maybe she collects cheques and assistance for everyone involved. She doesn't work at all. Defenityly a house wife or home maker.

Then there's another Islamic house close buy. I think there are 2 families living there. They are out less often but the 2 houses will be going back and forth much of the time.

They use Canada's services and none seem to be working. Mini-Vans come and go at all times of the day or night.

They all have Libearl Party signs on their lawns as they overtake Canada's political franchise from the masses.

Edited September 15, 2007 by mikedavid00

[capricorn]

"Canada belongs more to the person that pays the most taxes. That's the way I see it."

So, by your standards, your level of Canadianism is on a sliding scale. The more taxes you pay the more Canadian you are. Right?

"If you don't pay taxes, or are livign off a gov't cheque in any form, then you should not get to vote.

Yes that goes for gov't workers too. The gov't unions voting is a conflict of interest. Think about it."[/b]

Bullcrap. I receive the Canada Pension Plan. I and a government worker pay taxes and have as much right to vote as you do.

"I pay taxes, I support the people in this country who don't work or work for the gov't (same thing)."

More bullcrap.

"Thus, myself and others like me should be calling the shots - not a city union or people crammed up in a Sikh temple who have never worked a day in their lives and spend all their time writing into ethnic newspapers thinking they are intellectuals and 'great people' on this earth."[/b]

You are suffering from a superiority complex. Please consult a professional.

"And suprise, you would find that only 35% of Canadians would actually be eligable to vote in this country. But that's fair becuase it's US who support everyone else so you should have no say."

More bullcrap.

"People like me and Geoffery who work and pay taxes have to support everyone else. If you don't contribute, you shall not vote."

Last time I checked, I did not see Geoffrey giving you permission to speak on his behalf. You obviously don't know who contributes so your opinion is contaminated.

"End of story. There should also be a 10 year limit on citizenship before you are allowed to vote. Regardless of whether you pay taxes or not."

You're saying a new Canadian should pay taxes for 10 years before being allowed to vote, but if the new Canadian doesn't pay taxes, after 10 years the new Canadian can still get to vote. How generous of you. I would never have thought.

[bk59]

Any women reading this unemployed wondering why they are having a tough time getting a job? The above is the reason why. I have numbers to back it, please don't argue me on this.

More BS. If you have even one fact to back up your opinion then post it. Given that you haven't supported any of your other positions with facts (e.g. immigration has caused housing prices to rise, immigration is keeping Canadians out of schools, etc.) I doubt that you'll be producing any facts for this either.

Muliticultural is like a flawed, self defeating scientific theory. It's like 1.6666666....

Hilarious. 1.6666666... is flawed? Self defeating? It is a number. Is this your idea of using numbers to back up your opinions?

You don't have a grasp of the larger issue and the economic issue. The healthcare.

Our borken healthcare system.

Blaming immigration for all the ills in Canada is not the same as understanding the larger issues.

[JB Globe]

The French were over generous with their family sponsorship program and has historically colonized Islamic nations. This over centuries leads to mass immigration although much less than ours right now.

Well, if rapid migration automatically lead to the situation in France, than surely, it would be similar here in Toronto . . . Oh wait, it's nothing like it is there . . . Seems like there's another reason for France's problems . . .

The reason why the french dislike these people is becuase the majority simply don't work jobs and are tax burdens on the common people. They also created ghetto's and crimes.

Actually, the reason non-white French don't work as much as white French is because they can't due to widespread racism across French society.

Take for example SOS Racisme's experiments - identical CV's are sent out to a diverse range of employers, the only difference being that one set had French names and the other had African and Islamic names. The second set recieved much fewer positive answers from employers. Also consider the fact that it's common practice for many employers to ask prospective employees to attatch photos to their resume - my friend encountered this while working in Paris, the employers would give her a vague reason why they did this, but once she was hired other people confided in her that this was done to identify African or Muslim people who changed their names to a French name to try and get their foot in the door.

Also your claim that immigrants to France created ghettos is ridiculous. They didn't hold Le Corbusier's hand while he was drawing up the urban nightmare that are the social housing projects in the Parisian suburbs. It was municipal leaders across France who voted against allowing social housing in their city, thus forcing it to be concentrated in Paris and a few other cities. They created the ghettos - they didn't want to be anywhere near "the immigrants" so they packed them into a terribly designed and isolated block of high-rises.

Furthermore, I would MUCH rather have Algerians, Morocans, etc here in Canada rather than the garbage that we currently let in. These people integrate like a dream compared to our top countries of origin in Canada.

Sorry - you just finished saying that French immigrants are lazy, don't want to work, won't integrate, etc - now you're saying that North-African-French (who make up one of the largest immigrant groups in France) are a dream? Which is it?

And if you wonder why people claim your racist - perhaps it's comments such as referring to immigrants as "garbage"

Yes. We should focus on our own culture. Not the culture of other countries.

But of course, for many people, myself included, who we are is a combination of several influences, including where we live now and where are parents are from. We don't consider our mix of cultures to be "foreign" as you do. We see it as very Canadian - especially since Canada has been a cultural melting pot since Confederation.

And I disagree with you in that some people feel that culture *is* the be all and end all of themselves which is really sad.

Yes, they're usually called well-meaning-but-often-paternally-racist-white-liberals OR people who are deeply ingrained in racialist ways of thinking.

There is no such thing as true multiculturalism. That breaks the laws of what 'culture' is.

Well, that's the thing - there aren't really any "laws of culture" - culture is constantly changing and evolving, it isn't static. Certain policies can guide culture, but you can never contain it. Multiculturalism simply means that people have the option of maintaining part of their ethnic heritege if they so choose, while being participating citizens in national society.

Canada has a bunch of losers who try to pretend that they are not living in Canada and don't belong to us.

Example . . .

Below is real culture. But it takes living in the parent country for it to be real. Multiculturalism is a falshood by definition:

http://www.iadb.org/news/images/medium/Bra...esanato%203.jpg

Brazil is itself the product of multiculturalism - various cultural elements from many different cultures have, over time, combined to form a distinct national culture, all the while those different cultural heriteges still remain in some segments of the population. For example - Samba, Afro-Brazilian drumming, Capoeira, are things which weren't invented by purely by Brazilians in some sort of cultural vacuum - they were things which developed in Brazil when immigrants adapted and fused their cultural traditions to their new home.

No national culture was enforced, as you seem to suggest should be done here, but rather culture was allowed to develop organically - which is the main reason why Brazil is known around the world for being such a vibrant and exciting place.

[JB Globe]

Ahbh yes. So maybe I can turn that question around to you.

You are the typical, self hating Canadian.

Either back up these random baseless attacks with an actual arguement or shutup please.

Unless of course, you would like everyone to start posting

"Mikedavid00 is a Neo-Nazi who eats kittens for breakfast"

Because that's what the discussion will turn into if you continue to be lazy and sloppy.

[JB Globe]

Go to Italy and you will find a bunch of soft, feminine girly men who barely eat, are skinny, like soccer and don't say 'eh yo east side mario's'.

So, do you enjoy providing those who claim you are racist with ammunition for their arguement? Or are you just sloppy?

[JB Globe]

8. Integrationists want to break down barriers between and among different cultures in order to bring them together as a single culture. They hope to create a new, better and superior Canadian culture for everybody from the hybrid of cultures.

- THAT SOUNDS LIKE ME!

Actually, you'd be more of an Assimilationist - you want people to hide their cultures, and destroy them. You don't want a hybrid of cultures, because that would mean that for example - some Indian traditions, or Italian traditions, etc - would become part of Canadian national culture (ie - the way Curry Houses are a staple of British cuisine now).

After all, you did begin this post delighted that at your dinner party no one ever discussed anything about their cultural heritege - if you were an integrationist, you'd want people to discuss their heritege as a way of finding out how to combine it into a hybrid culture.

[Michael Hardner]

I think MikeDavid needs to be quarantined until he provides evidence for his claims.

[Guest American Woman]

Go to Italy and you will find a bunch of soft, feminine girly men who barely eat, are skinny, like soccer and don't say 'eh yo east side mario's'.

I've been to Italy, and let me tell you, that sure isn't what I found! Except for the "don't say 'eh yo east side mario's'" part because I have no idea what that means.

[AngusThermopyle]

the way Curry Houses are a staple of British cuisine now).

And what a superbly excellent addition that is to the culture. Its unfortunate that curry hasn't caught on in the same way here in Canada, yet.

[jennie]

Thus, myself and others like me should be calling the shots - not a city union or people crammed up in a Sikh temple who have never worked a day in their lives and spend all their time writing into ethnic newspapers thinking they are intellectuals and 'great people' on this earth.

Mikedavid, if people like you were ever in power, Canada would not be Canada for long.

You are trying too hard to 'fit in'.

You are much more rigid than the society you are trying to fit into.

Yes, we have a multicultural society that has its own 'multi-culture', but people are free to continue their own cultural traditions too. Certainly religious freedom is a cornerstone of Canada, and always has been and always will be.

In my neighbourhood every year we see a Portuguese parade, an Italian parade, an Indian parade, a military parade for Remembrance Day, a SantaClaus parade, a Labour Day parade, and we hear bagpipes practicing at the armoury.

THAT is Canada.

[mikedavid00]

In my neighbourhood every year we see a Portuguese parade, an Italian parade, an Indian parade, a military parade for Remembrance Day, a SantaClaus parade, a Labour Day parade, and we hear bagpipes practicing at the armoury.

THAT is Canada.

No that is your neighbourhood.

That is not Canada.

You are talking about 80's style 'festival multiculturalism' which is healthy.

I'm talking about complete segregation and racism.

[JB Globe]

That is not Canada.

Well, what is Mike? Because so far you've only alluded to your vision of Canada being essentially Anglo-Canadian-Protestant culture and nothing else.

[mikedavid00]

Well, what is Mike? Because so far you've only alluded to your vision of Canada being essentially Anglo-Canadian-Protestant culture and nothing else.

Well A *POLL* released today says that Canadians believe our countries is born from a catholic and protestant french/english culture which is present. You have trouble noticing it because you ARE Canadian.

A European called up our talk radio station this morning and said that he noticed how we are right away. he told the Sikh student association rep that if he didn't want to join in and benefit Canada and work (yes he said work) then he said don't come here.

The student says 'Are you saying that Sikh's haven't worked to build Canada?' and the host cut them off there. Here you have one immigrant from Poland saying he's Canadian, and one person from Canada saying he's a Sikh Indian. What a messed up new way of being we have created. It's a mess of words and falsehoods. It's not a real culture. And buddy, when I see elderly Santa-Clause looking 'Singh's'

Canadians are prudish, aloof people who are overly polite yet don't mean it. Canadians generally have a 'lower moral' and don't do what 'feels good'. They want a nanny state and are self hating hypocrits. We don't think for ourselves, but look for a 'God Like' figure to figure things out for us. We're like a bunch of church going Catholics... We really are.

Americans were of a different breed and did their own thing and started the greatest country in the world which I always fealt I really did belong.

Part of what made the country great is the fact that they declared their country was a nation under God and stuck to it. They also created a functioning political system which is the reason why the country is the way it is today. If they took on a parlementary system, states would have already seperated by now.

Even right wing members on the forum like Geoffery feel that we should take our queues from Sweden and Austria and other nanny states like that. That's totally Canadian. Me I'm American and I even like George Bush. Imagine that!

You know, one of the great designs of the world is the US Political system. It's just so accountable and fair.

Americans and Canadians were more similar at one time, and our political systems took their affect on us year after year.

Look at the end result.

Edited September 26, 2007 by mikedavid00