Disgraced Politician Questions Trudeau Moral Fiber

[old_bold&cold]

It's nice to see that you approach this subject with detached impartiality. Then again, since you claimed that you met Mulroney (almost) drunk at Harrington Lake, I take your command of the facts at less than face value.

August1991, you do me a deservice by thinking that what I have said was not true. That is upon you because I do not have reason to lie about that. I was at Harrington Lake ( PM cottage ) to fix some satellite hardware etc. I was asked to do this on an emergency type basis, and probably because I have passed many security checks in my work, and so has my wife in her work as well. I went there late on a saturday afternoon. I went through all the RCMP points and was greeted into the cottage by Mila, who was in her house coat, hair in curllers and eating warmed pizza in the kitchen ( I like Mila right away, as she was much like most people, and really down to earth). I had my wife with me as we were in Ottawa when I got the call. I worked on the satelliet receivers and the telsat decoders etc, and also programmed it in to also watch TV, All Canadian of course. I was asked about the other decoders and smiled and said yes I knew of them, and it they were serious I could provide that. Brian then came into the room and shook everyones hand and talked for a few moments, you could tell he had been drinking, and you also could see he was full of himself as well. All the time I was working on the equipment I was being sniffed and licked by their dog flower, who really just wanted to play. I did throw her toy ball sveral times for her to fetch and finished up my job. Mila still had many questions about the satellite etc and Brian mostly just agreed and then left the room. I did not think much of Muroney before this, but this was just after OKA, and I must admit meeting him in person only lowered my thinking. Not for the fact that he was drinking but for the swagger and his attitude about his presence.

Mila, was very nice and level headed, my wife was impressed by her as well. Brian though, it was more of a personal read of the man, the kind you do when you first meet a person. I have learned to trust that instinct in my life because it is mostly true by experience. The dog Flower was as most dogs happy and playful. Later in newspaper reports about Mila being a closet slob, made me laugh, as yes it was true by I did not think it a news worthy thing. To me, that was what made here a likeable person. Who did not cast any airs on entitlements etc. I said that I did not think much of Mulroney before this, and I should say this was after he said OKA is a chees is it not? And there were several other things as well. I did like some of what he did but was more if balanced on a beam, would say he was more on the do not like then like. It was later when the appointments of Mila's hairdresser to the Bank of Canada position, that really did it for me.

So there you have it. You can believe this or not, I really do not care one way or the other. But maybe you should meet the man yourself and see what your read is. You never know maybe you will see the same thing, or maybe not.

[Pliny]

I hope we can look back at this period in Canada's history and wonder at people's enchantment with socialism the same way we today look at people's enchantment with socialism in the thirties.

Trudeau was always a champion of the State even when it wasn't popular during, and for a decade or two, after the war. How soon we forget.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Pliny

[M.Dancer]

Trudeau and Quebec managed to pull themselves out of this cloistered, arch conservative mentality during the quite revolution, but the spectre of ethnic nationalism always threatens to pull them back.

...and as fate would have it.....

Gatineau, Que. — Muslims, Jews, gays, anglophones, evangelical Christians and immigrants in general. All were singled out in a negative light Monday night at the opening session of a commission into what Quebeckers think is unreasonable accommodation of minorities.

Remi Lefebre took the microphone, noting that he spent 1956 in Egypt living among Muslims.

“I endured them then and now I have to endure them again,” he said. “The only people who are making accommodations are the Québécois. … For me, I say zero accommodation.”

These and similar comments drew little concern from commissioner Gérard Bouchard, nor from the crowd, which often applauded.

Many older speakers noted that Quebeckers escaped oppressive religion during the Quiet Revolution, yet religion is creeping back into public life.

“I have to ask, why is it that in Montreal there is a hospital called the Montreal Jewish Hospital?” asked Claude Morisset.

I could answer that with a few pointed barbs but I have to ask, who hasn't been scared to death visiting Sacre Couer, Saint Justine, St Luc......

[Visionseeker]

Well, Visionseeker, that's an interesting perspective. You manage to paint Quebecers (both past and present) in an unseemly light. Lionel Groulx is a separatist fascist! Was he a drug pusher too? And you simultaneously credit Trudeau for his strength of character to crawl out of this morass of craven backwardness.

Yes, Lionel Groulx was a separatist fascist; one who heavily influenced how many French Quebeckers saw themselves and an echo of such perspective continues to resonate today. From Parizeau's "L'argent et la vote éthnique" to the present debate on "reasonable accommodation", one can readily see that Quebec continues to harbour some stiff streams of intolerance. Have a look at this past Sunday's edition of the Montreal Gazette. It contains the results and various analyses of a survey of Quebec's attitudes towards ethnic groups. One particularly striking figure is that 31% hold unfavourable views of Jews.

To be honest, I think your little theory is a crock but I also think it doesn't really matter. I hardly think we should hold Trudeau now guilty for what he thought in his 20s. Young people think all kinds of crazy things.

I would agree that holding people to the behaviour and beliefs espoused in their 20s is unfair (provided they no longer hold such beliefs nor act in the same manner). However I do think we might benefit by examining how such people came to change their beliefs and behaviour so that we might better understand the person we see in the present. If one's outlook has shifted simply to join the prevailing winds, such a person can be understood to be conformist or even opportunistic; on the other hand, if the conversion is born from introspection and serious intellectual scrutiny, I think we should pay careful attention to the argument as it may well contain truth.

What's significant, in my mind, is that Trudeau once thought them and then obviously he changed his opinion.

Agreed. Why did he change his opinions?

First, he never admitted this while he was alive and the discovery of his writings were something of a surprise.

I think you mean he never self-disclosed them, for he would've had to be confronted with the revelations to be asked to admit to them. One might ask why such writings and behaviours were never raised before? I suspect it is because only his enemies might have gained by doing so but, in so doing, were likely to expose their unclean selves - glass houses and all that.

Second, he nevertheless thought them. And as Mulroney accurately pointed out, while other young men were volunteering to go abroad and risk their lives to defeat fascism, Trudeau stayed at home and defended the fascists.

Indeed, and Mulroney does so by conveniently ignoring context because if such context were provided, his audience would be less likely to share the expressed revulsion. That is demagoguery, pure and simple.

IOW, Pierre Trudeau was a human being, and a politician.

Absolutely. While my defense of Trudeau may appear like some attempt to lionize the man, I harbour no such intent. There are certainly many scores upon which one may rightly criticize the man. But any honest assessment would have difficulty denying that, if only imperfectly, Trudeau pursued a higher purpose. The same cannot be said of Mulroney. One need only look at how he throws the blame for his failures on others. Alas, it was not that his policies were inherently flawed or that he failed to properly sell them, no, it was treachery, sabotage, the results of a vast left-wing conspiracy that did them in!

I have no doubt that Mulroney truly believes this trite because the depth of his self-absorption makes him highly susceptible to intellectual dishonesty. As he cannot be honest with himself and his thoughts, he's left only with his beliefs; and Brian Mulroney believes in Brian Mulroney.