Tax revolt brewing; Mine's neighbours withholding property dues

noahbody · September 6, 2007

I edited quite a bit out, not that in particular. He delivered a letter and never checked to see if he had a go ahead? While several other building sites have been shut down and the whole region knows it? C'mon...
But he does have it right about all three levels of government approving, permitting and then abandoning the developers on land in dispute, and they are the ones who have the "duty of the Crown to consult and where necessary, accommodate" the concerns of Indigenous people about uses of their traditional and treaty land, according to the SCoC.

The governments should be facing some heavy lawsuits over this stuff, I would think. Bad faith ...

I can't quite figure out their 'hands-off' strategy.

I'm amazed how you well you alter the story to fit your purpose. Yes he delivered a letter and he was told he was too small to matter. The person he talked to told him he need not go further in the process, therefore it would seem he was given the go ahead. Blame the Indigenous person with whom he talked, if anyone.

As far as your comment "several other building sites have been shut down" the story mentions there are two other developments a short distance away that apparently weren't a problem. The developer was puzzled why he was singled out.

jennie · September 6, 2007

I'm amazed how you well you alter the story to fit your purpose. Yes he delivered a letter and he was told he was too small to matter. The person he talked to told him he need not go further in the process, therefore it would seem he was given the go ahead. Blame the Indigenous person with whom he talked, if anyone.
As far as your comment "several other building sites have been shut down" the story mentions there are two other developments a short distance away that apparently weren't a problem. The developer was puzzled why he was singled out.

He (Mayor Hancock) also wondered why protesters are bothering to target Quattrociocchi's development, which is small.

Ruby Montour said Six Nations has concerns about developments going up "all over" Brantford. When protesters left the Grand River Avenue site just after noon, she said they would be checking in on other developments, including a housing development off Garden Avenue.

My lack of clarity ... several developments in other areas of the Haldimand Tract, and quite a few visits already to builders in Brantford too. These are return visits. Floyd and Ruby Montour are very serious. The government has failed to consult, so developments are being shut down until there is agreement on land in dispute.

You will get tired of hearing that ... "the government has failed to consult".

Are we supposed to just pretend that law doesn't matter? I don't get it.

Edited September 6, 2007 by jennie

Pliny · September 6, 2007

Are we supposed to just pretend that law doesn't matter?

If natives believe Canadian land is theirs and they have sovereignty over it, then yes, they should feel Canadian law does not apply to them. In my view they do wish Canadian law to apply to them so as much largesse as possible can be extracted from it.

This is the friendliest nation in the world according to international opinion. Many people from around the world would give their eye teeth to be able to live here with our government and the Canadian people, the friendliest in the world and "free" health care. This is the image we have today. Aboriginals are a part of that image. You would think they would be as proud of that friendly image as any Canadian.

jennie · September 6, 2007

If natives believe Canadian land is theirs and they have sovereignty over it, then yes, they should feel Canadian law does not apply to them. In my view they do wish Canadian law to apply to them so as much largesse as possible can be extracted from it.
This is the friendliest nation in the world according to international opinion. Many people from around the world would give their eye teeth to be able to live here with our government and the Canadian people, the friendliest in the world and "free" health care. This is the image we have today. Aboriginals are a part of that image. You would think they would be as proud of that friendly image as any Canadian.

"Images" can be deceiving. As they say, it is easy to uphold human rights for MOST of the people, but much more difficult to do so for ALL of the people. In our case, it is aboriginal peiople who have paid the price for our freedoms, and continue to as resources are extracted from the land without any share of revenue going to them.

I was commenting that our governments refuse to abide by the law saying that they must paly a consultative role in land disputes. Are we supposed to let them get away with ignoring the law forever?

You seem to have a very shallow grasp of our history.

White Doors · September 6, 2007

"Images" can be deceiving. As they say, it is easy to uphold human rights for MOST of the people, but much more difficult to do so for ALL of the people. In our case, it is aboriginal peiople who have paid the price for our freedoms, and continue to as resources are extracted from the land without any share of revenue going to them.
I was commenting that our governments refuse to abide by the law saying that they must paly a consultative role in land disputes. Are we supposed to let them get away with ignoring the law forever?

You seem to have a very shallow grasp of our history.

And you have a tenuous grasp on the truth.

At best.

Pliny · September 6, 2007

You seem to have a very shallow grasp of our history.

You appear to be stuck in it.

M.Dancer · September 6, 2007

Canadians are smarter than you give them credit for ... They know who is causing these blockades. Our governments that fail to act in good faith.

Causing the blockades? What? Someone is making the indians break the law? Are you really suggesting that Indians are that stupid?

jennie · September 6, 2007

Causing the blockades? What? Someone is making the indians break the law? Are you really suggesting that Indians are that stupid?

Chuck Strahl recently mentioned that some of the 'land claims' have been waiting for the government's attention for 60 years. Prentice recently said that the suggestion of an INDEPENDENT land claims tribunal was first proposed 60 years ago.

The reality is that Indigenous Nations have been patient BEYOND BELIEF waiting for the government to get around to implementing their land rights, Constitutional rights now for 25 years, but not implemented yet.

The issue now is that the governments are currently engaged in another fraudulent land theft, a repeat of the original colonial land grab.

It works this way: The government has a policy (not a law, and not legal) that land already developed for other uses cannot be 'returned' to Indigenous Nations.

So ... guess what they are doing? Guess why, for example, Dalton McGuinty brought in the "Greenbelt"? Because that pushed the development out further ... onto the Haldimand Tract ... Six Nations traditional land, under claim. Building is running rampant out there, and is being stopped now by Six Nations themselves.

Indigenous Nations are pushing back. Make no mistake: Our governments ARE waging a war of land fraud against aboriginal people to try to maintain possession of land fraudulently taken in the first place.

Federal governments stay silent, despite their "Crown duty" to consult with Indigenous Nations about development on land in dispute.

Provincial governments give permits for development, mining, logging, etc. and stay silent despite their "Crown duty to consult"

Municipal governments give permits, fail to consult, and scream bloody murder when their building plans are interfered with.

Every action of the federal and provincial governments is designed NOT to settle the land claims. Even the way they negotiate, when forced to, is designed to avoid settlement.

Not a pretty picture, but it is the truth. All levels of government have their role to play in the second episode of the GREAT CANADIAN LAND FRAUD.

Who is addressing the government's responsibilities to Indigenous Nations?

Apparently we are to accept that we have no such responsibilities, because apparently our government has chosen to make it war against Indigenous communities instead.

Sad choice, imo, and I don't believe that war would be the choice of the Canadian people if we were allowed an opinion.

Makes you wonder who runs our 'democracy' when war can be waged without the consent of the people.

As I see it ...

Edited September 6, 2007 by jennie

M.Dancer · September 6, 2007

Indigenous Nations are pushing back. Make no mistake: Our governments ARE waging a war of land fraud against them to try to maintain possession of land fraudulently taken in the first place.

They should be careful and polite about pushing. Not much point claiming land when you are dead or in prison. Because make no mistake. The first nations would be crushed and absorbed if they got too...ummm....pushy.

jennie · September 6, 2007

They should be careful and polite about pushing. Not much point claiming land when you are dead or in prison. Because make no mistake. The first nations would be crushed and absorbed if they got too...ummm....pushy.

You make my point:

Canada has chosen war ... illegal, deceitful, inhumane war to 'crush and absorb' Indigenous Nations into the 'body politic' leaving no "Indian problem".

Nothing has changed since Duncan Campbell Scott, has it?

Thank you for helping me make my point.

Canada's single purpose was, is and will be ... destruction of Indigenous Nations through war if necessary ... genocide.

Edited September 6, 2007 by jennie

Army Guy · September 6, 2007

I will give you that the indigenous nations of this country have from time to time been given a raw deal. Not by Canadians but by our gov't. But then again there are lots of groups or indiv's that our gov't has been slow to deal with or resolve issues.

Canada's single purpose was, is and will be ... destruction of Indigenous Nations through war if necessary ... genocide.

But comments like these are for people with tin hats and they do nothing for your cause, just like blocking roads, brigdes, or rail lines, yes they bring out the media, but do nothing to sway the Canadian people to your cause.

M.Dancer · September 6, 2007

You make my point:
Canada has chosen war ... illegal, deceitful, inhumane war to 'crush and absorb' Indigenous Nations into the 'body politic' leaving no "Indian problem".

Nothing has changed since Duncan Campbell Scott, has it?

Thank you for helping me make my point.

Canada's single purpose was, is and will be ... destruction of Indigenous Nations through war if necessary ... genocide.

Hyperventilate much?

Take note, you are the one choosing the inflamatory, over the top, hyperbolic language. You are the one who making the immature statements suggesting war. I'm just pointing out if the militants decide on violence they will be put down hard. And rightly so.

You have to remember that just because someone makes a claim doesn't mean it is going to be easy or fast. In many parts of BC for instance, different First Nations claim the same parcels of land and in the case of the Algonquin, there is also an existing treaty with a different nation about this land.

My suggestion too you is either grow up or take a valium, which ever is most practical.

jennie · September 6, 2007

Hyperventilate much?
Take note, you are the one choosing the inflamatory, over the top, hyperbolic language. You are the one who making the immature statements suggesting war. I'm just pointing out if the militants decide on violence they will be put down hard. And rightly so.

You have to remember that just because someone makes a claim doesn't mean it is going to be easy or fast. In many parts of BC for instance, different First Nations claim the same parcels of land and in the case of the Algonquin, there is also an existing treaty with a different nation about this land.

My suggestion too you is either grow up or take a valium, which ever is most practical.

Inflammatory ... over the top ... hyperbolic ... suggesting war ... put down hard ...

They should be careful and polite about pushing. Not much point claiming land when you are dead or in prison. Because make no mistake. The first nations would be crushed and absorbed if they got too...ummm....pushy.

You set the tone ... I took it to the logical conclusion ... "crushed and absorbed" implies destruction of them as a group ... correct?

Overlapping claims does not mean the government can ignore them.

Nothing can justify the way their legal claims have been ignored.

Nothing can even explain our governments collective actions ... except ... that there is no official Canadian intention to settle honourably, only violently.

And that will be a war for survival for Indigenous Nations ... a war against genocide.

If you don't want your veiled threats outed for their true meaning ... don't make 'veiled' threats: Have the courage to say what you truly mean:

I gather you mean ... that if they don't allow Canada to keep their land ... they will be attacked and destroyed as peoples "crushed and absorbed" ... correct?

Edited September 6, 2007 by jennie

M.Dancer · September 6, 2007

You set the tone ... I took it to the logical conclusion ... "crushed and absorbed" implies destruction of them as a group ... correct?
I gather you mean ... that if they don't allow Canada to keep their land ... they will be attacked and destroyed as peoples "crushed and absorbed" ... correct?

No not correct. I meant it exactly as I said it. If natives resort to violence they will lose.

You set the tone ... I took it to the logical conclusion ... "crushed and absorbed" implies destruction of them as a group ... correct?

Indigenous Nations are pushing back. Make no mistake: Our governments ARE waging a war of land fraud against aboriginal people to try to maintain possession of land fraudulently taken in the first place.
Makes you wonder who runs our 'democracy' when war can be waged without the consent of the people.

As I see it ...

You make my point:
Canada has chosen war ... illegal, deceitful, inhumane war to 'crush and absorb' Indigenous Nations into the 'body politic' leaving no "Indian problem".

Nothing has changed since Duncan Campbell Scott, has it?

Thank you for helping me make my point.

Canada's single purpose was, is and will be ... destruction of Indigenous Nations through war if necessary ... genocide.

This sort of rhetoric might sound great at a meeting of the Young Feminist Marxist Poets Society in the Student Union building (pot luck dinner included), but every where else it sort of looked on like there's a screw loose.

Posit · September 6, 2007

Hyperventilate much?
I'm just pointing out if the militants decide on violence they will be put down hard. And rightly so.

Taking a chapter out of the US Book of War mongering I see. What makes you think that anyone let alone the Canadian Armed Forces (of which probably 10% are aboriginal) are going to succeed at taking out militants. Just in case you haven't studied modern war tactics, the Taliban uses a historical Iroquois style of attack and retreat. From a military perspective it is hard to target a ghost. And that is why the US is failing in Iraq and we're getting whumped in Afghanistan. It is pretty hard to find and isolate someone that looks like all the others. Besides we have to conform to certain rules of war, when insurgents and freedom fighters do not.

Quit trying to act tough. You wimps don't hold beans to what I know about why the Iroquois have been so successful when outnumbered 100 to 1. No wonder the US army recruits Mohawk warriors to train their Special Ops.....

M.Dancer · September 6, 2007

Just in case you haven't studied modern war tactics, the Taliban uses a historical Iroquois style of attack and retreat.

I wasn't aware that:

A) The Iroquois used IEDs. I bow to your knowledge of anachonistic history.

The Iroqouis took such a beating.

What makes you think that anyone let alone the Canadian Armed Forces (of which probably 10% are aboriginal) are going to succeed at taking out militants.
Quit trying to act tough. You wimps don't hold beans to what I know about why the Iroquois have been so successful when outnumbered 100 to 1. No wonder the US army recruits Mohawk warriors to train their Special Ops.....

I smell the miasma of a barnyard odour.....

M.Dancer · September 6, 2007

Overlapping claims does not mean the government can ignore them.

No it means that:

1) Some claims are not valid

2) That it will take a long time to sort out the claim

You seem to think it's all cut and dried, black and white. It's not.

jennie · September 6, 2007

No not correct. I meant it exactly as I said it. If natives resort to violence they will lose.

The violence will be done to them (by us) if their land is invaded by police.

Well, I see you don't like having your true agenda exposed!

"crushed and absorbed" is genocide, my boy, and those were YOUR words.

If you don't want to be caught for "advocating genocide", DON'T DO IT!!

(Advocating genocide is a crime itself. Would you like to reword that now?)

The interesting thing here, with Sharbot Lake, is the presence of hundreds of non-aboriginal supporters ... landowners whose land is also staked for mining. IF the police do go in to Algonquin territory with the intent of throwing them off their own land as they try to prevent its destruction, I predict there will be a huge swell of public support and opposition to police and government.

I don't think anybody is going to be "crushed and absorbed" here.

And our government has no right to violate the laws this way.

Edited September 6, 2007 by jennie

M.Dancer · September 6, 2007

The violence will be done to them (by us) if their land is invaded by police.
Well, I see you don't like having your true agenda exposed!

"crushed and absorbed" is genocide, my boy, and those were YOUR words.

If you don't want to be caught "advocating genocide", a crime in itself, then DON'T DO IT!!

Would you like to reword that now?

Loosen that tinfoil, it's cutting the blood flow to your brain.

I said then I will say it now, if the militants resort to violence the will be crushed. You sippose the militant are 100%of the population? Your penchant for wild exagerations coupled with the cavalier use of the laguage grows tiresome.

Now run along and look up the definition of genocide and commit it to heart. Then come back when the valium has kicked in.

jennie · September 6, 2007

Loosen that tinfoil, it's cutting the blood flow to your brain.
I said then I will say it now, if the militants resort to violence the will be crushed. You sippose the militant are 100%of the population? Your penchant for wild exagerations coupled with the cavalier use of the laguage grows tiresome.

Now run along and look up the definition of genocide and commit it to heart. Then come back when the valium has kicked in.

Your personal insults betray a chink in the armour. I got you on the truth, didn't I!

Read the truth ... the violence will be perpetrated by us on them. They have no need of violence. They are simply on their own land keeping intruders out.

That is where Six Nations confederacy people were last April 20 too ... unarmed, protecting their land from intruders. The OPP attacked ... 150 police armed with semi-automatics, tasers, tear gas, pepper spray and police batons against 20 elders, parents, youth, and young children. They crushed the 20 protestors, chased them down, tacked them, brought them down HARD regardless of age, gender (or potential pregnancy), and with at least 5 cops to a person, beat them to the ground and on the ground with batons, fists, boots, elbows, knees, cuffed them and hauled them away.

Crushed? NOT! Hundreds of Six Nations people and others appeared over the next few hours, managed to get back onto the site and the women formed a line arm in arm with the rest of the community behind them and they walked the OPP off the site. (The video of April 20 will become famous for telling the violent truth about Canada-the-good, once it can safely be released.) Oh btw ... forgot to mention ... the 5 white people on the site were chased off at gunpoint, not charged. Racism is part of Canada's approach too.

So long as Canada is respecting treaty and traditional land, according to the law, there is no problem. It is when Canada invades with illegal mining permits, illegal logging permits, illegal development permits, etc. that there are issues.

If Canada would obey the laws there would be no problems.

Edited September 6, 2007 by jennie

M.Dancer · September 6, 2007

Your personal insults betray a chink in the armour. I got you on the truth, didn't I!

No, I just see no reason to either humour or suffer you any longer.

White Doors · September 6, 2007

Taking a chapter out of the US Book of War mongering I see. What makes you think that anyone let alone the Canadian Armed Forces (of which probably 10% are aboriginal) are going to succeed at taking out militants. Just in case you haven't studied modern war tactics, the Taliban uses a historical Iroquois style of attack and retreat. From a military perspective it is hard to target a ghost. And that is why the US is failing in Iraq and we're getting whumped in Afghanistan. It is pretty hard to find and isolate someone that looks like all the others. Besides we have to conform to certain rules of war, when insurgents and freedom fighters do not.
Quit trying to act tough. You wimps don't hold beans to what I know about why the Iroquois have been so successful when outnumbered 100 to 1. No wonder the US army recruits Mohawk warriors to train their Special Ops.....

hahahahahaha

An internet tough guy!

hahahahaah

you would think if they were so tough, the weak whitey would never be here in the first place.

Honestly, can we get above the kindergarten talk?

jennie · September 6, 2007

hahahahahaha
An internet tough guy!

hahahahaah

you would think if they were so tough, the weak whitey would never be here in the first place.

Honestly, can we get above the kindergarten talk?

The first nations would be crushed and absorbed if they got too...ummm....pushy.

Apparently not <_< ... this is what we are responding to.

That's not kindergarten though ... it is a statement of war to the 'finish' ... genocide.

Is that what you espouse too?

I am sure you understand the true story of whitey being here ... they welcomed us, helped us, made friendship treaties with us to allow us to live on parts of their land, reserving parts for themselves.

I am sure you can take it from there.

Every Canadian schoolkid knows the story of encroachment, fraud, etc. by which we stole their land, attacked their culture, etc. ... all of which are supposed to be behind us now, but are not.

Army Guy · September 6, 2007

posit:

Taking a chapter out of the US Book of War mongering I see. What makes you think that anyone let alone the Canadian Armed Forces (of which probably 10% are aboriginal) are going to succeed at taking out militants. Just in case you haven't studied modern war tactics, the Taliban uses a historical Iroquois style of attack and retreat. From a military perspective it is hard to target a ghost. And that is why the US is failing in Iraq and we're getting whumped in Afghanistan. It is pretty hard to find and isolate someone that looks like all the others. Besides we have to conform to certain rules of war, when insurgents and freedom fighters do not.
Quit trying to act tough. You wimps don't hold beans to what I know about why the Iroquois have been so successful when outnumbered 100 to 1. No wonder the US army recruits Mohawk warriors to train their Special Ops.....

This topic is going down hill fast. Ummm just a question about the Iroquois where do they live now, and why ?

White Doors · September 6, 2007

The first nations would be crushed and absorbed if they got too...ummm....pushy.
Apparently not ... this is what we are responding to.

That's not kindergarten though ... it is a statement of war to the 'finish' ... genocide.

Is that what you espouse too?

I am sure you understand the true story of whitey being here ... they welcomed us, helped us, made friendship treaties with us to allow us to live on parts of their land, reserving parts for themselves.

I am sure you can take it from there.

Every Canadian schoolkid knows the story of encroachment, fraud, etc. by which we stole their land, attacked their culture, etc. ... all of which are supposed to be behind us now, but are not.

no one has espoused genocide. only you.

the Indians welcomed the whiteman here? are you serious?

(ie: not me, I was born here)