This is America!

[Guest American Woman]

What about the word "war" don't you understand?

What about what I said don't you understand?

As far as "Little Gitmo" al I had to do was look at the caption. Do you really think NYC was going to let its day in the sun as a convention host get spoiled by creeps imported, in some cases, from other countries to make trouble? There were reasonable accomodations made for those demonstrations.

And I'm sure "al [sic] I had to do is look at the caption" is a common occurance for you, which is why you don't have a clue. You know, it's really impossible to have any kind of discussion with people who refuse to learn anything about the issues that they are commenting on, who merely look at a caption and think it's enough. So carry on simply spouting off about things you remain ignorant of, but I'm not interested because I'm not interested in a point of view based on ignorance.

[jbg]

What about what I said don't you understand?

And I'm sure "al [sic] I had to do is look at the caption" is a common occurance for you, which is why you don't have a clue. You know, it's really impossible to have any kind of discussion with people who refuse to learn anything about the issues that they are commenting on, who merely look at a caption and think it's enough. So carry on simply spouting off about things you remain ignorant of, but I'm not interested because I'm not interested in a point of view based on ignorance.

You're assuming I hadn't heard about the detentions (they're local news for me) and was relying on the caption. What an arrogant, fatuous assumption.

The fact is you know nothing, apparently, about New York City. You know nothing of the efforts needed to bring it back from spiralling into hellish condition, and into the world-class, safe city it's become. Once civil order is sacrificed, it's hard to get it back.

The demonstrators were given significant options in conducting their demonstration. Threatening the safety of the Convention guests and, most importantly, the President of the US does not, in the name of freedom, have to be a choice on the menu. The guarantee of free speech is the right to say what you want, not where you want to say it.

[jbg]

I already posted links to two really good sites about Little Gitmo in this thread. Here they are again:

"Gitmo on the Hudson"

Notes From the RNC - The 8/31 Experience

Yes, it most definitely is moral equivilizing. Furthermore, I don't set the standards for my country on what other nations do, and as I already said, I expect my nation to live up to the standards it claims to live up to.

And I guess your model for US elections would be the 'elections' in the West Bank - gangs of heavily armed thugs everywhere, RPG launchers by the dozen and an allegedly 'free' election. No chance whatever of coercion under those conditions. </sarcasm>

[Guest American Woman]

You're assuming I hadn't heard about the detentions (they're local news for me) and was relying on the caption. What an arrogant, fatuous assumption.

I'm assuming nothing. Let me remind you of the post I was responding to:

I give up. What is "Little Gitmo"?

[jbg]

This responds to post above, but I don't want to haul out my manual multiquoting talent.

AW is "rolling her eyes" when I didn't recognize the term "Little Gitmo". The various mainstream political groups involved, at the local level, in maintaining order at the 2004 Republican Convention didn't call it "Little Gitmo". That term was/is an Internet creation, and my time dictates some selectivity in reading even very meritorious and balanced presentations, such as ones calling the NYPD's security efforts "Little Gitmo".

[lost&outofcontrol]

If I'm proud to be Canadian does it imply that the poor schmuck born in Haiti should be ashamed that he was born in one of the worst off(in just about every respect) countries in the world.

Edited September 25, 2007 by lost&outofcontrol

[Guest American Woman]

This responds to post above, but I don't want to haul out my manual multiquoting talent.

AW is "rolling her eyes" when I didn't recognize the term "Little Gitmo". The various mainstream political groups involved, at the local level, in maintaining order at the 2004 Republican Convention didn't call it "Little Gitmo". That term was/is an Internet creation, and my time dictates some selectivity in reading even very meritorious and balanced presentations, such as ones calling the NYPD's security efforts "Little Gitmo".

It was referred to as "Guantanamo on the Hudson" by numerous NY publications, including the New York Times, the New York Daily News, the New York Post, and the New York Sun.

Even if the term were an internet creation, you DO read the internet, do you not? Or do you just go all over the internet posting your same 'screeds' everywhere, never reading what anyone else has to say?

But here's a tip. If you're going to comment/question my posts, read them first. If you had, you'd have known what "Little Gitmo" was in reference to.

And you're right, lost&outofcontrol. One doesn't have to be from a nation like Canada and/or the United States to be proud. I've met people from all over the world who are proud of their countries.

Edited September 25, 2007 by American Woman

[sharkman]

This responds to post above, but I don't want to haul out my manual multiquoting talent.

The various mainstream political groups involved, at the local level, in maintaining order at the 2004 Republican Convention didn't call it "Little Gitmo". That term was/is an Internet creation, and my time dictates some selectivity in reading even very meritorious and balanced presentations, such as ones calling the NYPD's security efforts "Little Gitmo".

The hard left loves to make up terms for things they don't like, and the term little gitmo shows a shocking lack of imagination. Thank you AM, for making such a nice list of left wing media outlets.

[Guest American Woman]

Thank you AM, for making such a nice list of left wing media outlets.

Your welcome, but I was really doing it for jbg, the "Yank Left Winger."

Edited September 25, 2007 by American Woman

[jbg]

Your welcome, but I was really doing it for jbg, the "Yank Left Winger."

Thanks for the tip. I am a liberal in the correct sense of the word.

But calling NYC "Guantanamo on the Hudson" makes as much sense as calling Bush "Hitler".

[Guest American Woman]

...calling NYC "Guantanamo on the Hudson" makes as much sense as calling Bush "Hitler".

NYC isn't called "Guantanamo on the Hudson." Pier 57, the facility where the protesters were held, is called "Guantanamo on the Hudson." And you said you knew all about this 'local for you' event.

I find it telling that you care so much about what the facility is referred to while you apparantly don't care at all about what happened/the conditions.

I am a liberal in the correct sense of the word.

And I'm the next president of the United States.

Edited September 26, 2007 by American Woman

[jbg]

NYC isn't called "Guantanamo on the Hudson." Pier 57, the facility where the protesters were held, is called "Guantanamo on the Hudson." And you said you knew all about this 'local for you' event. I find it telling that you care so much about what the facility is referred to while you apparantly don't care at all about what happened/the conditions.

The details are lost to the mists of time, unless I care to re-read them. What did people expect if they conducted dmonstrations outside areas for which they had permits? Giventhe security constraints involved in hosting large numbers of convention delegates, and the President, those boundaries were reasonable. They were held on charges of disorderly conduct. Were they happier having the charges dropped or would they have preferred, ultimately, to be prosecuted?

And I'm the next president of the United States.

This gets me angry. Over the years I have:

1. Volunteered for Students for McGovern;
   
2. Campagined for McGovern and Carter;
   
3. Volunteered extensively in the Westchester County 1982 Democratic Campaign;
   
4. Most importantly, worked for poor people, without charge, at a legal services clinic;
   
5. Contributed extensively to Defenders of Wildlife, until they decided that immediate wildlife preservation was less important than tangential causes such as global warming; and
   
6. Perosnally, both with money and volunteer activity, supported other wildlife causes, such as wolf restoration.
   

On liberal issues, I have walked the walk. I work in a multiracial office where minorities have senior positions of authority. The fact is I have done things for causes closely identified with liberalism.

That is what I mean by saying that I am a "liberal" or "progressive" in the best sense. Liberalism does not mean throwing Western values overboard. Back to the OP, this is fully consistent with patriotism towards America.

[Guest American Woman]

The details are lost to the mists of time, unless I care to re-read them. What did people expect if they conducted dmonstrations outside areas for which they had permits? Giventhe security constraints involved in hosting large numbers of convention delegates, and the President, those boundaries were reasonable. They were held on charges of disorderly conduct. Were they happier having the charges dropped or would they have preferred, ultimately, to be prosecuted?

The above proves you don't know the facts behind the arrests. But let me tell you this much. Even if they WERE doing what you accused them of, and they weren't, the circumstances of their arrests, the conditions of the holding facility, all of it ... is totally inexcusable. And that it happened here, in the States, where people are supposed to be free from that kind of thing, is deplorable.

This gets me angry. Over the years I have:

a. Volunteered for Students for McGovern;

b. Campagined for McGovern and Carter;

c. Volunteered extensively in the Westchester County 1982 Democratic Campaign;

d. Most importantly, worked for poor people, without charge, at a legal services clinic;

e. Contributed extensively to Defenders of Wildlife, until they decided that immediate wildlife preservation was less important than tangential causes such as global warming; and

f. Perosnally, both with money and volunteer activity, supported other wildlife causes, such as wolf restoration.

omg! "Most importantly, worked for poor people, without charge, at a legal services clinic" You must be the father of liberalism! Because of course no conservative has ever worked for poor people. Without charge. At a legal services clinic!

I guess you have walked the walk.

As a side note, I don't think the tone of your post is befitting the next POTUS.

Edited September 27, 2007 by American Woman

[jbg]

omg! "Most importantly, worked for poor people, without charge, at a legal services clinic" You must be the father of liberalism! Because of course no conservative has ever worked for poor people. Without charge. At a legal services clinic!

We spent plenty of time at tenant meetings at night in areas you wouldn't want to go to, trust me. It wasn't entirely work at offices.

[Fortunata]

QUOTE

This gets me angry. Over the years I have:

a. Volunteered for Students for McGovern;

b. Campagined for McGovern and Carter;

c. Volunteered extensively in the Westchester County 1982 Democratic Campaign;

d. Most importantly, worked for poor people, without charge, at a legal services clinic;

e. Contributed extensively to Defenders of Wildlife, until they decided that immediate wildlife preservation was less important than tangential causes such as global warming; and

f. Perosnally, both with money and volunteer activity, supported other wildlife causes, such as wolf restoration.

omg! "Most importantly, worked for poor people, without charge, at a legal services clinic" You must be the father of liberalism! Because of course no conservative has ever worked for poor people. Without charge. At a legal services clinic!

What a hero! Funny though, Mother Theresa never felt the need to blow her own horn. But then she didn't need others' approval to feel she was making a difference.

[Guest American Woman]

We spent plenty of time at tenant meetings at night in areas you wouldn't want to go to, trust me. It wasn't entirely work at offices.

You have no idea where I've been or what I've done, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't "trust you" when you tell me what I would or wouldn't want to do.

But once again, what you are saying is that no conservatives would do what you have done; that your going to tenant meetings in rough areas at night is something only a liberal would do. again.

[jbg]

But once again, what you are saying is that no conservatives would do what you have done; that your going to tenant meetings in rough areas at night is something only a liberal would do. again.

Yes, to take away money and power from genuinely exploitative and thieving landlords who were will to let tenants freeze in order to earn a buck.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes, to take away money and power from genuinely exploitative and thieving landlords who were will to let tenants freeze in order to earn a buck.

Alrighty then. Keep believing no conservative would ever do that, but as for myself, I find that belief as credible as I find your claim to be a liberal.

But all the same, I hope I can count on your vote in the next presidential election.

[Guest American Woman]

omg! "Most importantly, worked for poor people, without charge, at a legal services clinic" You must be the father of liberalism! Because of course no conservative has ever worked for poor people. Without charge. At a legal services clinic!

What a hero! Funny though, Mother Theresa never felt the need to blow her own horn. But then she didn't need others' approval to feel she was making a difference.

I'm sure Mother Theresa didn't suffer from the illusion that anyone who did charity work was a liberal, either. Jbg seems to really believe this defines him as such.

[jbg]

I'm sure Mother Theresa didn't suffer from the illusion that anyone who did charity work was a liberal, either. Jbg seems to really believe this defines him as such.

And do you really think a conservative bigot would care if minority group members freeze during the winter?

[Guest American Woman]

And do you really think a conservative bigot would care if minority group members freeze during the winter?

I don't think all conservatives are uncaring nor do I think all conservatives are bigots.

[jbg]

I don't think all conservatives are uncaring nor do I think all conservatives are bigots.

Glad we agree. Most liberals don't.

[Guest American Woman]

Glad we agree. Most liberals don't.

What?? Do you even read what you post? !

[jbg]

What?? Do you even read what you post? !

Do you? I'm getting tired of your attempts at intelligence which barely pass as sarcasm and/or insults.

[jbg]

Back to the topic. Today I was out jogging, and noticed a unique piece of Americana; a basketball hoop whose net is red, white and blue.