By-Elections

[jbg]

Yet another falsification. Here is the real evidence on the Government's fiscal situation.

So we are on track for a $14 billion surplus. How is the government running a deficit again?

Certain posters confuse Harper and Mulroney. Maybe a few too many fried brain cells?

[Michael Bluth]

Certain posters confuse Harper and Mulroney. Maybe a few too many fried brain cells?

Not sure. But their argument in this case is definitely weak. As if they were taking the gold at the Lake Flaccid Olympics.

[Shakeyhands]

any comment on the reason for the timing or are you just going to continue with the attacks?

[jdobbin]

It looks like the Liberals have decided on their candidate for Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River.

It will be former NDP cabinet minister Joan Beatty.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...B_xoWhoo4dFDuFQ

A former Saskatchewan NDP cabinet minister has officially been selected to run as a Liberal candidate in one of four byelections to be held on March 17.

"Joan Beatty brings to the Liberal Party of Canada a strong mix of local knowledge, aboriginal expertise, political experience and a tradition of service to the people of Saskatchewan," Liberal Leader Stephane Dion said in a news release late Thursday.

"I am confident that her passion for her home riding of Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River, coupled with her passion for her province and country, will make her a strong member of Parliament and I am so pleased to welcome her to our caucus."

Beatty said her continued desire to make a positive change for the north, particularly the people of northern Saskatchewan, is why she decided to join the Liberals.

"Under Mr. Dion's leadership, I believe that I can best represent the constituency at this level, in particular, the First Nations communities where the need is so great," Beatty said in a news release.

"This is a diverse riding with significant First Nations, Metis, and farming communities. Having been born and raised in the riding, along with my professional and personal experience, I have had the opportunity to see first-hand the issues faced by northerners, and I look forward to taking those concerns to Ottawa and pushing for solutions."

I haven't heard what the reaction is the riding yet but Beatty won the region handily as an NDPer.

[Shakeyhands]

4 ridings... 4 Liberal seats... No wonder Harper put it off so long...

[jdobbin]

4 ridings... 4 Liberal seats... No wonder Harper put it off so long...

And the Tories that running in some of those seat don't seem to be getting much support.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f.../04/153120.aspx

Note to Harper Tories: Campaign launch 101 -- when you announce a candidate is running, you ensure:

a. The candidate is available for media interviews all day;

b. You ensure the candidate has his message in hand so he presents the positions he will run on;

c. You have a photo op for the candidate in the community;

d. Your candidate has a cell phone and Blackberry so he can be reached 24/7.

Conservatives in Toronto Centre had none of this.

If this is how Tories are going to present high profile candidates in Toronto such as Rev. Meredith, high profile candidates would do themselves a favour by refusing Conservative nominations.

Meanwhile, the NDP is Saskatchewan are turning nasty against the Liberal candidate.

The former NDP premier called her a turncoat.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...OnfLBh1SentvKEw

She did not respond to requests for an interview Friday, but NDP Leader Lorne Calvert figured she will face an uphill battle winning the seat as a turncoat.

"I think Joan is making a mistake," Calvert said. "She has indicated to us that, if she has an opportunity to serve in a federal house, that it may have more impact on the First Nations people of the north."

Beatty won by a large margin in the north. She has name recognition and is likely to bring in First Nations votes just as Keeper did in Churchill.

[Michael Bluth]

d. Your candidate has a cell phone and Blackberry so he can be reached 24/7.

Yes, there will be a means of contacting the candidate, but not necessarily directly.

24/7? Yet another example of the media not knowing their role. Do they really expect the candidate to be accessible to them at 3 am? Why?

Edited January 5, 2008 by Michael Bluth

[Alexandra]

When it comes to principles, integrity and incorruptibility, it is clear S. Dion refuses to let these moral values stand in the way of his quest for power. After all of the belittling criticisms of Peter McKay by the NDP'ers and Liberals re David Orchard, Peter McKay must be laughing out loud while thinking about how dumb S. Dion and his advisors must be to figure David Orchard, after working to elect Dion as Liberal leader, will simply fade into the woodwork.

It is not beyond David Orchard's mindset to retaliate by filing a lawsuit against Dion to recover funds from his work on Dion's campaign, etc., which would tend to add more debt to the 'leadership campaign outstanding loans'. Orchard has proven it is not just "beware the woman scorned".....

When you sign on with David Orchard, you're not forming a partnership with a guy who is prepared to lie down and be run over if the leader thinks it advisable.

What you get is a practised grassroots politician with a flair for organization. You also get a committed activist who expects to be treated with some respect for his abilities. It sounds simple enough, but for some reason, this equation does not seem to compute easily in Ottawa.

The scene now unfolding in Liberal circles bears all the hallmarks of a movie Orchard has seen before. The script goes something like this:

Ambitious politician seeking his party's leadership sees an opportunity for a come-from-behind victory by running a low-cost, network-heavy campaign. In order to succeed, he enlists the help of a nationally known political maverick long on principles but short on compromise. After achieving an unlikely victory with the maverick's help, the candidate turns his back on his unlikely helpmate, freezing him out of the inner circle he yearns for.

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix...18-aa6852bdf556

[capricorn]

When it comes to principles, integrity and incorruptibility, it is clear S. Dion refuses to let these moral values stand in the way of his quest for power.

It seems obvious that Dion's actions to obliterate David Orchard are to protect the standing of (old guard) Ralph Goodale within the Liberal fold. He's guaranteeing Goodale in the finance portfolio if he were to win the next election so he's got that wrapped up. In so doing he'll boost the female and aboriginal representation a notch. Orchard is but a casualty in Liberal politicking.

It is not beyond David Orchard's mindset to retaliate by filing a lawsuit against Dion to recover funds from his work on Dion's campaign, etc., which would tend to add more debt to the 'leadership campaign outstanding loans'. Orchard has proven it is not just "beware the woman scorned".....

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix...18-aa6852bdf556

Dion already owes almost $900K. With this debt hanging over him, how is he going to wage an election campaign while staying within the expenditure limits? Oh well, another parliamentary session of Liberals sitting on their hands appears in the offing.

[jdobbin]

When it comes to principles, integrity and incorruptibility, it is clear S. Dion refuses to let these moral values stand in the way of his quest for power. After all of the belittling criticisms of Peter McKay by the NDP'ers and Liberals re David Orchard, Peter McKay must be laughing out loud while thinking about how dumb S. Dion and his advisors must be to figure David Orchard, after working to elect Dion as Liberal leader, will simply fade into the woodwork.

I have no problem with the nomination. By all accounts Beatty has a better chance of winning the seat and of fulfilling Dion's promise of appointing women to seats they can win. She seems capable and will represent First Nations well.

I think there is a fear that Orchard has always been a party of his own.

Edited January 5, 2008 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

It seems obvious that Dion's actions to obliterate David Orchard are to protect the standing of (old guard) Ralph Goodale within the Liberal fold. He's guaranteeing Goodale in the finance portfolio if he were to win the next election so he's got that wrapped up. In so doing he'll boost the female and aboriginal representation a notch. Orchard is but a casualty in Liberal politicking.

Dion already owes almost $900K. With this debt hanging over him, how is he going to wage an election campaign while staying within the expenditure limits? Oh well, another parliamentary session of Liberals sitting on their hands appears in the offing.

I don't have a problem with Goodale in Finance. I don't know much about Orchard other than he didn't seem to have as strong roots in the riding.

Leadership debt is separate from election campaign spending. The Liberals already have a line of credit ready to go for an election as was reported in the media last week.

[Alexandra]

It seems obvious that Dion's actions to obliterate David Orchard are to protect the standing of (old guard) Ralph Goodale within the Liberal fold. He's guaranteeing Goodale in the finance portfolio if he were to win the next election so he's got that wrapped up. In so doing he'll boost the female and aboriginal representation a notch. Orchard is but a casualty in Liberal politicking.

Absolutely. Goodale was no doubt working feverishly on the 'old guard' to help him persuade S. Dion to appoint a.n.y.b.o.d.y but Orchard. This piece tends to confirm the backroom wheeling and dealing:

Dion initially appeared to give his blessing to an Orchard candidacy but came under pressure to change his mind from Liberals, including House leader Ralph Goodale, who believe Beatty, an aboriginal woman, is best placed to hold the riding, which has a heavy aboriginal population.

What a pathetic excuse. Goodale and S. Dion assume that everyone will believe that this woman, Beatty, because she is aboriginal in a heavy aboriginal riding, need not owe any allegiance to her own party, the NDP, and the people who elected her as an NDP'er to represent them? That assumes also that the people in this riding will elect Mrs. Beatty because she is an aboriginal? How crude and calculating is that.

Dion already owes almost $900K. With this debt hanging over him, how is he going to wage an election campaign while staying within the expenditure limits? Oh well, another parliamentary session of Liberals sitting on their hands appears in the offing.

Although this debt [$1Million?] of S. Dion's may be separate I believe it must be paid in full prior to any election. As well, Goodale, Dion nor the Liberal

backroom boys seems to have learned anything from the past (or, more to the point, are waaaaay too arrogant to even consider David Orchard as anything but a nuisance), however, this group of, what some Westerners refer to as the 'Eastern Elitists', may discover they have taken Orchard and his 'supporters' for granted and wake up to find a scandal (convention shenanigans?) too hot to handle. Otherwise what could S. Dion and the backroom manipulators ever offer to David Orchard to satifisy Orchard's principles!

`

[jdobbin]

Goodale and S. Dion assume that everyone will believe that this woman, Beatty, because she is aboriginal in a heavy aboriginal riding, need not owe any allegiance to her own party, the NDP, and the people who elected her as an NDP'er to represent them? That assumes also that the people in this riding will elect Mrs. Beatty because she is an aboriginal? How crude and calculating is that.

Although this debt [$1Million?] of S. Dion's may be separate I believe it must be paid in full prior to any election. As well, Goodale, Dion nor the Liberal

I guess it is about as calculating as Harper recruiting Khan into the Tory caucus and giving him a taxpayer supported journey around the world for a report no one has seen and the government shelved.

I don't know much about Beatty other than she seems to be a credible candidate. She comes from a long line of former NDPers who have decided to be Liberals instead of NDPers.

The Conservatives seemed happy to be rid of Orchard. I suspect they thought he would be a rogue element in the Liberal party that they could point to as evidence of a party with a radical agenda.

I have no idea what Orchard's politics are but I had read several Saskatchewan newspapers which suggested that he was an unknown in the riding. One of the thing that any leader has to do is to make sure they maintain control of who runs for the party. They should leave most of the decisions to the local riding but given that our system is vulnerable to instant members and party hijacking, the party has to have final say who runs under their banner.

The Tories have removed three candidates and kicked out a few MPs in the last months which is their right. I find it hilarious when they get worked up about Liberal candidates.

Liberal leadership debt has to be paid by June of 2008. I believe they can ask for an extension and still not be in breach. They can also use a loophole which writes off the debt and not be in violation. Not the most desirable outcome but within the rules left by the Tories in the Elections Act.

[jbg]

Yes, there will be a means of contacting the candidate, but not necessarily directly.

24/7? Yet another example of the media not knowing their role. Do they really expect the candidate to be accessible to them at 3 am? Why?

I agree with what Jdobbin is trying to say to the extent of acknowledging that parties often provide minimal support and funds for hopeless races. The GOP Senate candidate in New York against Schumer was given and/or raised $632,269, or almost no money for his campaign. By contrast, Schumer raised and/or was given $27,465,087 and spent $17,757,131 (link).

This happened in view of the expectations for the elections. The results were 4,384,907 votes for Schumer, 1,625,069 for Mills, the Republican opponent. To keep this in perspective, 744,943 blank or write-in votes were cast. Source here.

[Alexandra]

This is what happens when Goodale, S. Dion and the Liberal party backroom boys in "Ottawa" fail to take into consideration the local sensitivities with respect to nominating candidates with their usual scorched earth policies; integrity and principles be damned:

Rift opens in Liberal party over appointment of NDP MLA to run in Saskatchewan

OTTAWA - Irate supporters of David Orchard are warning that Liberals will lose a coming byelection in northern Saskatchewan now that Leader Stephane Dion has chosen to appoint an NDP defector as the party's candidate.

And even though Dion's chosen candidate, Joan Beatty, is an aboriginal woman, some native leaders are suggesting it's racist to bypass the democratic nomination contest in the heavily aboriginal riding.

"There is an Indian Affairs mindset and this is it to the core, the old Indian agent mentality we all know too much about," Metis leader Jim Durocher says in an angry letter to Dion, obtained by The Canadian Press.

"The idea that 'we' know better than 'you' the people, what is good for you."

By totally dismissing letters from the native chiefs it is obvious S. Dion, Goodale and the 'Boys' have exposed to all concerned their lack of ethics, integrity, principles and the fact that the only matter of importance to them is stacking a riding with whatever body they think will win them a seat:

Durocher said he's disappointed that Dion has shafted Orchard after all the Saskatchewan farmer did to help him in the leadership race.

"It's not very principled. It's not very fair."

Orchard's supporters sent out e-mail messages Friday urging Liberals to pressure Dion to change his mind. Letters from Durocher and another native supporter, sent last month in bid to forestall Beatty's appointment, were also being circulated.

Joseph Iron writes that Orchard is popular and well-known among aboriginal voters, having joined a 1992 native blockade in the riding to prevent clear-cutting of a forest. As a result, he says native voters have been joining the Liberal party in droves to support Orchard's bid to become the candidate in Desnethe.

"If they do this (appoint Beatty) and hurt Dave, I won't bother with the Liberals any more. I will go with the NDP and my family too," Iron writes.

"I think the chiefs will have something to say about this too. And that is without even talking about democracy."

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...9NnDs2EH2-tyzEg

[jdobbin]

This is what happens when Goodale, S. Dion and the Liberal party backroom boys in "Ottawa" fail to take into consideration the local sensitivities with respect to nominating candidates with their usual scorched earth policies; integrity and principles be damned:

By totally dismissing letters from the native chiefs it is obvious S. Dion, Goodale and the 'Boys' have exposed to all concerned their lack of ethics, integrity, principles and the fact that the only matter of importance to them is stacking a riding with whatever body they think will win them a seat:

Durocher and Iron are supporters of Orchard. They are not chiefs. I have heard of only one chief who has said anything.

Beatty is quite popular in the riding. It is not the first time an NDP has crossed over in the riding to be a Liberal.

I know Tory backroom people were gleeful to see Orchard run in the byelection to try and tie Dion to radical politics. Sorry. Not happening.

Senator Smith has held out an olive branch to Orchard. Let's see if he takes it.

[Alexandra]

I know Tory backroom people were gleeful to see Orchard run in the byelection to try and tie Dion to radical politics. Sorry. Not happening.

This is NOT about the Tory backroom people, no matter how you attempt to divert the subject of the articles I have posted.

Senator Smith has held out an olive branch to Orchard. Let's see if he takes it.

This is NOT true. Again, this is just more of the fabrications of your overly active partisan imagination. If you had paid attention you would have known that Senator Smith did not make any offers, never mind offer an 'olive branch" to David Orchard. This is what Senator Smith is quoted as saying:

"Smith said Dion did talk with Orchard before the Beatty announcement was made, but the senator wasn't aware of any deals being struck with Orchard."

Why do you always attempt to insult one's intelligence by attempting to divert and to always have the last word on a discussion or post on the Liberal party which does not suit your obvious blindly loyal opinion. And, I have carefully avoided answering your attempts to one-up the posts on this thread and replies to others on this subject rather than getting into the usual sometimes juvenile and insulting responses you deliberately invite.

Ciao.

`

[jdobbin]

This is NOT about the Tory backroom people, no matter how you attempt to divert the subject of the articles I have posted.

This is NOT true. Again, this is just more of the fabrications of your overly active partisan imagination. If you had paid attention you would have known that Senator Smith did not make any offers, never mind offer an 'olive branch" to David Orchard. This is what Senator Smith is quoted as saying:

Why do you always attempt to insult one's intelligence by attempting to divert and to always have the last word on a discussion or post on the Liberal party which does not suit your obvious blindly loyal opinion. And, I have carefully avoided answering your attempts to one-up the posts on this thread and replies to others on this subject rather than getting into the usual sometimes juvenile and insulting responses you deliberately invite.

How is it not about Tory backroom people? You don't think they are happy to part with Orchard and were looking forward to him running for the Liberals?

This was the olive branch that I was referring to:

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/291219

Senator David Smith, one of Dion's election campaign chairpersons, was trying to calm the waters yesterday, saying Orchard was still very much welcome to run as a candidate in the federal election.

Dion, said Smith, was faced with a tough decision. He is committed to having women running in one-third of the ridings across Canada and Beatty was such an attractive prospect for the Liberals, Dion felt he had to put her in that riding to run as soon as possible.

"I'm not saying anything negative about David Orchard," Smith said. "I hope he stays in the family."

I'm not sure what fabrication you are referring to. This seems very much like an offer, doesn't it? An offer to run in another riding?

I see the only insults being tossed around seem to be coming from you.

[Michael Bluth]

Why do you always attempt to insult one's intelligence by attempting to divert and to always have the last word on a discussion or post on the Liberal party which does not suit your obvious blindly loyal opinion. And, I have carefully avoided answering your attempts to one-up the posts on this thread and replies to others on this subject rather than getting into the usual sometimes juvenile and insulting responses you deliberately invite.

Ciao.

Don't let yourself be chased off the boards.

The goal of a cyber bully is to exhibit a degree of control that is sadly lacking in the real world for them.

Your frustration is noted and understood.

Please stick around Alexandra. Your points on the Orchard situation are very positive.

This is a classic swing riding and the Liberals have ignored their commitment to grassroots reform in their classic campaign from the left drivel.

[jdobbin]

It's by-election day today and Happy St. Patrick's Day!

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/346741

Liberal candidates in Toronto's two federal by-elections are counting on Prime Minister Stephen Harper – and a sense his Conservatives have abandoned the city – to help them win votes today.

"It's what people are telling us at the door," said candidate Bob Rae, during a final weekend push in Toronto Centre. "Voters say the Conservatives don't care about them. They don't care about Toronto or the province of Ontario."

Across Canada, two other ridings vote today in by-elections in Vancouver Quadra and Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River in northern Saskatchewan. While both seats were held by Liberal MPs, party insiders predict closer races in the west than in Toronto Centre or Willowdale, with a possible squeaker in Saskatchewan.

The alienation theme is repeated on doorsteps in Willowdale, according to Liberal candidate Martha Hall Findlay. She says voters have been paying attention to such comments by federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty that Ontario is "the last place" in Canada business wants to invest.

The Liberals should be able to hold the two Toronto seats. The Tory candidates there mostly didn't participate in debates according to some press reports. Their campaigns got off to shaky starts which is strange since the Tories have adequate resources to do well.

Vancouver Quadra is likely to go Liberal as it has become an area of strength for the party in recent years.

The big question is the Saskatchewan riding. It is so large and diverse that it is difficult to say how people will react to the appointed Liberal candidate. At the moment, I'd say that because she had her own base of support as a First Nations and NDPer, she has the advantage. However, I don't know if there will be a backlash against her because of her appointment.