The Power of Prayer

[KO2]

So far it is almost as if I were an Oracle the way I had you pegged for a closet Chritians in my conversation.

Well I wouldnt speak too soon because he could have meant Amen to that....which is like "Here here" you know. But it is certainly possible, either way you are not his judge.

You know, you gave me a hard time about using some personal pronouns in a silly little story I made up in the maryjane thread, which I thought was a little strange since its quite common. And the fact that I made myself a superhero in a story that wasnt serious anyway. The funny thing is I have noticed, in what seems to me to be the most serious manner, you fashion yourself a super hero.

You are an Oracle. A brilliant man cuz of some smart thing you did with the cops, blah blah. And you are the voice of the oppressed of the past. And the best damn pilot that ever flew an airplane. Delusions of grandeur? Oh well, we all have em.

Now you talk about the lowest common denominator and stooping to the lowest levels, and yet you have no qualms about using the shrieking victims of past atrocities to condemn religious people, many of whom mean you or nobody else no harm at all. Many of those people may have died clinging to the words in that book you dont like. I am sure many did, so dont claim to be their voice. You dont care about them really. And you know it. You are trying to lump yourself in with em in an effort to score points in an argument.

No one is getting a rise over the fact that you scored some weed. Its funny that you think anyone would.

Yes I have done all you recounted and learned much from it.

As I helped pioneer the sport of hang gliding in this country I have some valid perspective which you are free to criticize all you want.

The reason I like to share my wisdom as I have exoerienced it is in the spirit of growing a pool of knowledge .

This is how we early flexwing pilots expanded the sport from hundred foot hops to 350 mile magical mystery tours.

I'm rightfull proud of my honest learning experiences all of which I claim to be in the public domain are to be found there after searching.

My sharing here was done so everyone could gain. I didn't want to end up being the only contributer of positive inputs, but if youi are not capable wear the shoe that fits.

My spirit would suffer if I were to be as mean and spitefully negative as you.

There is not a single lesson from your lives, a true personal insight into the challenges we are dicussing here, available for me to gain knowledge from.

Your constant plan of attack is to belittle me, as if you wished to capture my goat.

This anyone can see is the power of your god. My goat aint coming to you.

It is not I that needs to forgive you, that's your god's job-remember, I'm only an Oracle. We are not in the forgiving business. We like virgins, various fun substances and then we make predictions.

By the way you fling your christian love at me, I understand why there are real problems in the world today

Amen to you, too.

Edited July 14, 2007 by KO2

[jefferiah]

So far it is almost as if I were an Oracle the way I had you pegged for a closet Chritians in my conversation.

Well I wouldnt speak too soon because he could have meant Amen to that....which is like "Here here" you know. But it is certainly possible, either way you are not his judge.

You know, you gave me a hard time about using some personal pronouns in a silly little story I made up in the maryjane thread, which I thought was a little strange since its quite common. And the fact that I made myself a superhero in a story that wasnt serious anyway. The funny thing is I have noticed, in what seems to me to be the most serious manner, you fashion yourself a super hero.

You are an Oracle. A brilliant man cuz of some smart thing you did with the cops, blah blah. And you are the voice of the oppressed of the past. And the best damn pilot that ever flew an airplane. Delusions of grandeur? Oh well, we all have em.

Now you talk about the lowest common denominator and stooping to the lowest levels, and yet you have no qualms about using the shrieking victims of past atrocities to condemn religious people, many of whom mean you or nobody else no harm at all. Many of those people may have died clinging to the words in that book you dont like. I am sure many did, so dont claim to be their voice. You dont care about them really. And you know it. You are trying to lump yourself in with em in an effort to score points in an argument.

No one is getting a rise over the fact that you scored some weed. Its funny that you think anyone would.

Yes I have done all you recounted and learned much from it.

As I helped pioneer the sport of hang gliding in this country I have some valid perspective which you are free to criticize all yoou want.

The reason I like to share my wisdom as I have exoerienced it is in the spirit of growing a pool of knowledge .

This is how we early flexwing pilots expanded thesport from hundred foot hops to 350 mile magical mystery tours.

It was done so everyone could gain.

My spirit would suffer if I were to be as mean and spitefully negative as yours.

There is not a single lesson from your lives, a true personal insight into the challenges we are dicussing here.

Your constant plan of attack is to belittle me as if you wished to capture my goat.

This anyone can see is the power of your god.

It is not I thats needs to forgive you, but I don't wish to apologize either when I point out your fraud.

By the way you fling your christian love at me, I gain respect and assurance for myself.

Amen to you two.

Lol all of a sudden you start to play victim when I point out that you are no better than anyone else...even the Christians you hate so much. I am not trying to capture your goat. You are the one doing that to people...launching into attacks on religion just to start something right....and the thing is you are still the angriest person in here and have flung more insults at the "Anal-retentives" than they have at you. You even followed Scott over here and made a little note of his Amen so you could accuse him of being Peter, but everyone else but you is the negative one, with a constant plan of attack to belittle you. You can dish it out fine....but when it comes time to take it---well

[KO2]

I don't think I'm a victim.

You are trying to make me one, but I'm barely holding my own.

Itis you doing all the labelling, the calling of names.

I'm only pointing out the obvious.

The truth doesn't sit well with you.

[jefferiah]

I don't think I'm a victim.

You are trying to make me one, but I'm barely holding my own.

Itis you doing all the labelling, the calling of names.

I'm only pointing out the obvious.

The truth doesn't sit well with you.

Sure i have flung a few names...but I can admit. You have done nothing but since you joined, refuse to admit and say the truth doesnt sit well with me.

[KO2]

No I really haven't been calling you the kind of names you have been using on me.

But I have been scoring points where you feel the sting of self realization when I point yourself out to you.

[jefferiah]

No I really haven't been calling you the kind of names you have been using on me.

But I have been scoring points where you feel the sting of self realization when I point yourself out to you.

what names did i call you?

[KO2]

Why is this so personal for you?

Although I've got your goat, and I let him go he doesn't seem to want to go home

Focus on the forum thread my friend and let your intelligence shine with positive, enlightening input.

Take your turn adding to the pool of knowledge.

[jefferiah]

Why is this so personal for you?

Although I've got your goat, and I let him go he doesn't seem to want to go home

Focus on the forum thread my friend and let your intelligence shine with positive, enlightening input.

Take your turn adding to the pool of knowledge.

Lol.....cant answer eh

[KO2]

Guess you can't swim, eh?

[jefferiah]

Guess you can't swim, eh?

Well as far as swimming goes, I can float. I'll never be an olympic competitor, and I cant compete even among the few lads I grew up swimming in the muddy river with.

As for the pool of knowledge, thanks for the invite, but I was pretty much done at the time, and I went outside to see how my garden was doing. Its been light here for a few hours in NB.

[cybercoma]

I have a problem because I posted a video about the power of prayer? Looking at the scientific studies there is absolutely no evidence to show that it has an effect. The funny thing is, usually there is at least a placebo effect with things relating to people's health, but prayer actually indicated it worsened the situation in a number of cases.

I find you people laughable when you cry about how I'm "attacking" religion, when I did no such thing (in this thread anyway). You're all being way over-sensitive. All I was trying to do with this thread is discuss the power of prayer, instead a bunch of you have made the choice to level personal attacks towards me. This shows how religious moderates continue to demand undue respect for things.

In any other field (science, politics, business, etc...) it would be perfectly acceptable to analyze claims as wild as the one that there is power in prayer. It's perfectly acceptable to analyze claims of psychics, faith-healers and dowsers, yet when you analyze the same wild claims made by religion, it's taken as an outright attack.

Nearly every post in this thread has been utter nonsense. Now, if anyone is willing to discuss prayer and its effects, I'm willing to listen. For those that just wish to make personal attacks and post nonsense, please piss off.

[betsy]

I have a problem because I posted a video about the power of prayer? Looking at the scientific studies there is absolutely no evidence to show that it has an effect. The funny thing is, usually there is at least a placebo effect with things relating to people's health, but prayer actually indicated it worsened the situation in a number of cases.

I find you people laughable when you cry about how I'm "attacking" religion, when I did no such thing (in this thread anyway). You're all being way over-sensitive.

I may have expresed my observations of you openly on this one particular topic, however my impression of you was not made solely because of this topic alone. If you recall, I've commented about your passion in another thread, musing that it seems you are trying to convince yourself.

If we count the numbers of topics you've started and the threads you've contributed where-in you either maligned or reviled religion, or made disparaging and mocking remarks about people who have religious beliefs, I would say there's quite so many of them, whereas I hardly see you in other non-religion topics.

At least shall we say you have such an interest on religion? It's this fascination you have on religion - especially the Christian religion, and GOD - that makes you quite interesting to me.

Religion - Christianity - it seems, is like a scab you couldn't stop from picking. A scab that bothers you.

A reminder.

If I am not mistaken, you've said way, way back that you used to be a Christian.

Could it be that perhaps, deep inside, there's a part of you that couldn't and wouldn't let go completely?

There is still that tiny little spark of belief that bothers you every now and then...this spark that you are at war with....that you'd like to extinguish?

Although this comparision cannot really compare, the struggle of one who used to smoke comes to mind.

This ex-smoker suddenly hated the smell of cigarettes! He has nothing but criticisms towards people who still continue to smoke. He mocks their habits...their weakness and inability to shed this ugly vice.

But in reality, it is not really about other people's welfare he cares about. It is about him. This people are like a temptation....reminding him of the enjoyment he felt puffing on that cigarette. After all this years of non-smoking....he still struggles to stay on the wagon. The cigarette still beckons.

Edited July 14, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

In any other field (science, politics, business, etc...) it would be perfectly acceptable to analyze claims as wild as the one that there is power in prayer. It's perfectly acceptable to analyze claims of psychics, faith-healers and dowsers, yet when you analyze the same wild claims made by religion, it's taken as an outright attack.

The problem with you is that you care so much about my beliefs, but I don't care at all about yours.

I don't care if you don't pray! I don't care if you don't like me praying! In fact, I don't care if you pray I don't pray!

You're the only one that cares here. I suspect you care because you can't pray. Your pride won't let you.

That fall can be pretty scary.

I don't have to defend my religious belief to you. But you might well have to defend your lack of belief at some point in the future.

Edited July 14, 2007 by betsy

[KO2]

The power of prayer is the power of self delusion.

[ScottSA]

The power of prayer is the power of self delusion.

Wow, man. If the bumper sticker is, like, really long, we might be able to fit a cannabis leaf beside that far out slogan. Stick it to the MAN!

[KO2]

Maybe it can be done.

[cybercoma]

betsy,

1) I don't have a problem specifically with Christianity, you only think that because it is obviously the religion you most identify with and therefore take it personally when I address it. Using this thread as an example, I did not specify any religion. Prayer is something that is common among nearly all religions.

2) What religion my parents raised me with may have had some influence on me not wanting to believe in any religious nonsense anymore, but it is still completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand or any of the other threads/discussions I started.

3) I'm not asking you to defend your religious beliefs. If you want to discuss the power of prayer, please contribute to the thread. It is the effect of prayer and the belief of that which motivated me to start this thread. If you have nothing to add, then do yourself a favour and stfu. You're the one being disrespectful by dragging attacks on me as a person into this discussion.

It's quite obvious from this thread that there can be no rational discussion on the subject because any attempts to analyze anything "religious" leads to the person asking questions or doing the analyzing being attacked by believers for what they wrongly perceive as an attack on their religion.

[KO2]

Awesome post!

Now we're back to it!

I don't believe in God, but I pray.

I see people praying with prayer wheels and expecting results.

When the mania of the Pentecostal's full gospel gripped me, and I was in the throws of Holy Rolling as driven by the Holy spirit, my prayers were passionate communications of eager seeking and commitment, and heartfelt concern for those whom we prayed for.

Today it is a calm reflection of greatfullness for any simple thing that comes my way and a moment to ponder at why I was so luckyu as to recieve it.

The moment I see suffering or am made aware of it my heart leaps to their plight and I feel passionate empathy for them.

When I heard of the dissappearance of Swiss Air flight 111 over peggy's cove, my marijuana laced mind took me to that screaming passener cabin and tears come to my eyes as I feel their terror, hear the last cries to their loved ones. That is prayer for me.

When the news of our six young soldiers who recently died in Afghanistan came to me, I began to cry for the pain their loved ones would feel. I do believe that this is a valid form of prayer.

Unspecifically focussed as to an entity, but a true feeling of empathy, compassion, forgiveness are all excercises in reaching to a higher level of understanding in one's spiritual center.

As long as we continue to feel these things, then our spirit gets its excercise and we are rewarded with those qualities as they are practiced.

Edited July 14, 2007 by KO2

[betsy]

betsy,

1) I don't have a problem specifically with Christianity, you only think that because it is obviously the religion you most identify with and therefore take it personally when I address it. Using this thread as an example, I did not specify any religion. Prayer is something that is common among nearly all religions.

2) What religion my parents raised me with may have had some influence on me not wanting to believe in any religious nonsense anymore, but it is still completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand or any of the other threads/discussions I started.

3) I'm not asking you to defend your religious beliefs. If you want to discuss the power of prayer, please contribute to the thread. It is the effect of prayer and the belief of that which motivated me to start this thread. If you have nothing to add, then do yourself a favour and stfu. You're the one being disrespectful by dragging attacks on me as a person into this discussion.

It's quite obvious from this thread that there can be no rational discussion on the subject because any attempts to analyze anything "religious" leads to the person asking questions or doing the analyzing being attacked by believers for what they wrongly perceive as an attack on their religion.

Yes, we got side-tracked because I couldn't help commenting about your fixation upon seeing yet another topic from you about, what else, religion. Anyway, I do not expect you to admit to what I said. You yourself, may not even be conscious of the reason why you have this fixation...negative though it is, you're still somehow "glued" to it....analyze - a word you used. Well, obviously you are on a quest to analyze. You have a wish to understand. The reason behind this wish to analyze may be to find irefutable proof that will give you that certainty - finally extinguishing at last, that tiny spark inside you.

But anyway, somehow, it got you intrigued.

You may insist otherwise....but the impression you project to me is what I said it is. At least, for me.

Btw, this is not an attack on you. I am just stating the impression you give me.

So okay, let's get back to your topic.

What is it you want to know about prayers? Can you be specific?

Edited July 14, 2007 by betsy

[cybercoma]

Yes, we got side-tracked because I couldn't help commenting about your fixation upon seeing yet another topic from you about, what else, religion.

Imagine that... a post about religion in the "Moral & Religious" forum. If you don't want to read posts about religion, might I suggest the Federal Politics forum?

[betsy]

Yes, we got side-tracked because I couldn't help commenting about your fixation upon seeing yet another topic from you about, what else, religion.

Imagine that... a post about religion in the "Moral & Religious" forum. If you don't want to read posts about religion, might I suggest the Federal Politics forum?

I know. But it is the way you start out with this various topics....and yet, the direction of the discussion always end up with your vehement opinion of people who still wish to practice their religion.

Your topics seem to be vehicles for bashing religious people and the religion they believe in.

If you are not an atheist, I might've suspected you are trying to convert people to your own religion.

So before we get side-tracked again....what is it you want to know about prayers?

Edited July 14, 2007 by betsy

[KO2]

Are you all children out there? Why all this you said ,I said, you said, shit?

Can no one add anything to topic here or are you all morons?

[sharkman]

I know. But it is the way you start out with this various topics....and yet, the direction of the discussion always end up with your vehement opinion of people who still wish to practice their religion.

Your topics seem to be vehicles for bashing religious people and the religion they believe in.

If you are not an atheist, I might've suspected you are trying to convert people to your own religion.

So before we get side-tracked again....what is it you want to know about prayers?

You are right Betsy, cyber has this thing about Christianity. The last 3 threads in a row he/she's started in this section are all thinly veiled attacks on Christianity, and then Cyber decries personal attacks! This is typical of a person of this mindset, completely unaware of their hypocrisy.

So unable to live and let live in this one area, and I think you are right with your spark theory. Views so often repeated like this usually have an underlying cause.

I viewed about half of the video and found myself pitying the man who tried to equate talking to God to talking to a jug of milk. Prayer is so much more than asking for stuff. No wonder Atheists have such a dim view of prayer.

[cybercoma]

The last three posts I made:

1) The Power of Prayer: Which in no way is specific to Christianity. Although the video used Christianity.com for its references on the meaning and function of prayer, the vast majority of religions use prayer.

2) I Don't Believe in God by Penn Jillette: Not an article that I have written, but an article by Penn Jillette. Once again, in no way is it specific to Christianity. He's saying he doesn't believe in God whatsoever, in any form or from any religion.

3) Can Doctor's Beliefs Hinder Patient Care: Once again, not necessarily specifically about Christianity, although the doctor in this circumstance was Christian.

I think its funny how discussing and asking questions is looked down upon. None of these posts were an attack on Christianity, none of them suggested that anything be done to Christians. They're nothing more than discussion on morality and religion in a forum title "Moral & Religious Issues".

In every single thread, there have been maybe two people willing to address the issues and discuss the topic and the rest of you have done nothing but gotten your panties in a bunch and leveled personal insults and attacks on me for posting them.

It's quite simple really, if you don't want to discuss the topic of the thread, don't click on it.

[betsy]

The last three posts I made:

1) The Power of Prayer: Which in no way is specific to Christianity. Although the video used Christianity.com for its references on the meaning and function of prayer, the vast majority of religions use prayer.

2) I Don't Believe in God by Penn Jillette: Not an article that I have written, but an article by Penn Jillette. Once again, in no way is it specific to Christianity. He's saying he doesn't believe in God whatsoever, in any form or from any religion.

3) Can Doctor's Beliefs Hinder Patient Care: Once again, not necessarily specifically about Christianity, although the doctor in this circumstance was Christian.

I think its funny how discussing and asking questions is looked down upon. None of these posts were an attack on Christianity, none of them suggested that anything be done to Christians. They're nothing more than discussion on morality and religion in a forum title "Moral & Religious Issues".

In every single thread, there have been maybe two people willing to address the issues and discuss the topic and the rest of you have done nothing but gotten your panties in a bunch and leveled personal insults and attacks on me for posting them.

It's quite simple really, if you don't want to discuss the topic of the thread, don't click on it.

Gee, I didn't know you'd go all out defensive about my statement. With the way you're carrying on, you'd think I hit a nerve or the nail or something....

So anyway, I've asked twice already what is it about prayers you want to discuss. Obviously you posted that link for a reason. I'm trying to comply.