jefferiah Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 God's will is not always the same as mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) ScottSA.. so when people pray and ask for certain things, they are not actually expecting or hoping for any of their prayers to be answered? Could you explain to an ignorant atheist like myself the purpose of prayer if there is no expectation or desire of the prayer to be answered and some aspect of the real world altered as a result? Is it just to feel better, knowing that praying or not will not affect any worldly events? Is it simply part of the ritual and procedure of an institutionalized religion, with no particular thought or importance placed on its effectiveness? Is it restricted to hoping for intervention only on issues related to the supernatural, like one's immortal soul? What is the purpose of prayer? I can only speak for myself. Anyone who has been reared a Christian is taught right off the bat not to pray for worldly possessions, so I don't know why that sophomoric question is in play, nor why the self-congratulatory moron who made that video with his "expose" based on a logic 101 class bothered. I'm not a Christian now, although I send my daughter to a Catholic School because it's leap years ahead of the public system in morals and education, and the last time I was in a church was a year ago. But I do pray. I don't yowl at the heavens, or speak gibberish and call it "tongues", or use elaborate choreographs involving incense and ringing bells, or even clasp my hands together in a church pew. I pray silently, and my only purpose is to talk to my maker. Like, I suspect, most deists do. Sure there are all sorts of small Christian sects out there, some quite well financed, who believe prayer gets us cash, but they are few and fairly far between even if they do have loud followings. Prayer isn't about "getting thiongs." If it were, it would have died out as quickly as praying to milk jugs. How silly. Edited July 11, 2007 by ScottSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Not really talking about cash or material goods here. If a family member has a serious illness, for example, would a religious Christian not usually pray for that person to get better? Would there not be some hope or expectation or desire for this prayer to be answered? Would there not be disappointment and sadness if the prayer is not answered? Would the prayer still be said if it was somehow known in advance that it was for sure not going to be answered? Would the prayer still be said if it was known for certain that the person would get better anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefferiah Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Of course people pray for those things. But we have to accept that people are going to go sometimes. Really though how can anyone answer this question as to why and when people pray. I am sure it is different in every circumstance and for every person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Really though how can anyone answer this question as to why and when people pray. People do things for a reason. Prayer is something that people do, so they have a reason for doing it. Not being religious myself, I am curious as to what that reason is. Is there genuine hope that the prayer will be answered? That is, is there belief that through the act of praying, the probability of the desired outcome will be increased? Is it done for emotional comfort, knowing that there isn't any actual effect? Is it done simply because it is a reaction and ritual that is ingrained in people that are religious by institutions, with no particular thought on the part of the individual as to its effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefferiah Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Really though how can anyone answer this question as to why and when people pray. People do things for a reason. Prayer is something that people do, so they have a reason for doing it. Not being religious myself, I am curious as to what that reason is. Is there genuine hope that the prayer will be answered? That is, is there belief that through the act of praying, the probability of the desired outcome will be increased? Is it done for emotional comfort, knowing that there isn't any actual effect? Is it done simply because it is a reaction and ritual that is ingrained in people that are religious by institutions, with no particular thought on the part of the individual as to its effect? People pray for different reasons at different times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Really though how can anyone answer this question as to why and when people pray. People do things for a reason. Prayer is something that people do, so they have a reason for doing it. Not being religious myself, I am curious as to what that reason is. Is there genuine hope that the prayer will be answered? That is, is there belief that through the act of praying, the probability of the desired outcome will be increased? Is it done for emotional comfort, knowing that there isn't any actual effect? Is it done simply because it is a reaction and ritual that is ingrained in people that are religious by institutions, with no particular thought on the part of the individual as to its effect? As an atheist, you'll never get it. The good news is that atheists often have epiphanies and turn into the loudest most obnoxious theists around, so there's a good possiblity that you'll get it someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 I've grown completely tired of these ridiculous debates between atheists and believers. Neither one of you is ever going to convince the other that you're right, so just shut up about it and let the other believe what he wants. Cripes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefferiah Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 I've grown completely tired of these ridiculous debates between atheists and believers. Neither one of you is ever going to convince the other that you're right, so just shut up about it and let the other believe what he wants. Cripes. One has to wonder why you clicked on the thread then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 One has to wonder why you clicked on the thread then. Because I have a variety of interests, spirituality being one of them. Does every thread, particularly one titled "The Power of Prayer," need to devolve into personal insults and acrimony? Maybe it's naive of me to think it need not, or perhaps its just more cycnical of the people who think it must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 As an atheist, you'll never get it. . . . [A]theists often have epiphanies so there's a good possiblity that you'll get it...Interesting post that just about sums up the way you make your arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 God's will is not always the same as mine.The jug of milk's will is not always the same as mine.I think the Rolling Stones said this once, "you can't always get what you want." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 As an atheist, you'll never get it. . . . [A]theists often have epiphanies so there's a good possiblity that you'll get it...Interesting post that just about sums up the way you make your arguments. Hey, you're the one who posted that childish video based on logic 101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzer Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Do you guys honestly expect replies to the ad hominem attacks? That's how you tell the Christians around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 A short video on the power of prayer... This video is extremely offensive to people who worship the jug of milk! This video is completely intolerant to their beliefs! You should be ashamed of yourself, Cybercoma, because you are lactose-intolerant! -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 You should be ashamed of yourself, Cybercoma, because you are lactose-intolerant! -k Laugh all you want, heathen witch, but it's a well known fact that milk haters float and innocent milk lovers sink, so be warned. The Milquistion knows all, and in case it doesn't there's always the ordeal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Hey, you're the one who posted that video based on logic. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Hey, you're the one who posted that video based on witchcraft and ink blobs. Thanks. NP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefferiah Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 A short video on the power of prayer... This video is extremely offensive to people who worship the jug of milk! This video is completely intolerant to their beliefs! You should be ashamed of yourself, Cybercoma, because you are lactose-intolerant! -k ......You rock Kimmy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xman Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 CIA's psychic wars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) This relentless and passionate abusive contempt towards religion is more than just an obsession. I have noticed it for quite sometime now...and most recently I do seriously believe he is having some inner struggle. Although he makes an attempt to mask it (by naming other religion), his problem has to do with only one particular belief: Christianity. In fact, I've come to the conclusion that these statements are not really meant for us....but rather for himself. Cybercoma got his own personal issues. All I can say with sincerity....I pray that peace be with you. Edited July 14, 2007 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KO2 Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) Hey ScottsA, What is it? In this forum you sound Religious and in the other forum you claim to be non religious. Did I snag you with the story of Peter denying Christ # times before the Cock crowed, or what? The surest way to judge the vine of Christ is the fruit it bares, eh! So far it is almost as if I were an Oracle the way I had you pegged for a closet Chritians in my conversation. Didn't I say that Fraud is born of Fraud? Please don't pray for me, I want nothing to do with the God of deception. Amen Edited July 14, 2007 by KO2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefferiah Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Hey ScottsA, What is it?In this forum you sound Religious and in the other forum you claim to be non religious. Did I snag you with the story of Peter denying Christ # times before the Cock crowed, or what? The surest way to judge the vine of Christ is the fruit it bares, eh! So far it is almost as if I were an Oracle the way I had you pegged for a closet Chritians in my conversation. Didn't I say that Fraud is born of Fraud? Please don't pray for me, I want nothing to do with the God of deception. Amen As I recall Mr KO2, Jesus forgave Peter for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefferiah Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 So far it is almost as if I were an Oracle the way I had you pegged for a closet Chritians in my conversation. Well I wouldnt speak too soon because he could have meant Amen to that....which is like "Here here" you know. But it is certainly possible, either way you are not his judge. You know, you gave me a hard time about using some personal pronouns in a silly little story I made up in the maryjane thread, which I thought was a little strange since its quite common. And the fact that I made myself a superhero in a story that wasnt serious anyway. The funny thing is I have noticed, in what seems to me to be the most serious manner, you fashion yourself a super hero. You are an Oracle. A brilliant man cuz of some smart thing you did with the cops, blah blah. And you are the voice of the oppressed of the past. And the best damn pilot that ever flew an airplane. Delusions of grandeur? Oh well, we all have em. Now you talk about the lowest common denominator and stooping to the lowest levels, and yet you have no qualms about using the shrieking victims of past atrocities to condemn religious people, many of whom mean you or nobody else no harm at all. Many of those people may have died clinging to the words in that book you dont like. I am sure many did, so dont claim to be their voice. You dont care about them really. And you know it. You are trying to lump yourself in with em in an effort to score points in an argument. No one is getting a rise over the fact that you scored some weed. Its funny that you think anyone would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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