Caucasians

[Bonam]

No, they can't understand it. They have been too deeply indoctrinated.

[Remiel]

It is normal when you see a black person to notice that he is a black person. You all do. It does not mean that you think less of the man, but you notice it. I am sure it is the same with black people when they see a white person. There is nothing offensive in this. Can you understand this? When I see an asian person, I know that he is no less a person than I am, but I also immediately notice that he is Asian. It is very striking and prominent. This is not evil.

Maybe in your fantasy land everyone can tell where their neighbours ancestors lived, but back in the real world, a Sikh was murdered after 9/11 because some idiot thought he was from the Middle East.

Black and white are the worst descriptors of the bunch, where a persons skin colour counts for more than their actual heritage. Where a person who has three grandparents from Holland, and one from Africa is called black, and a person with three grandparents from Holland and one is from Japan, and they are called white, the stupidity of colour coded descriptions for a persons heritage becomes readily apparent. Even while Caucasian and African might be more properly descriptive, people still think the same thing, white and black. Do these people not have a right to be accepted for who they are, and not for what people choose to see, or rather, choose not to see? But yet, many peoples simplistic notions of " race " demand that each person they see be classified by their most prominent physical features, instead of by their real background.

If you see Barack Obama and Halle Berry walking down the street, do you think to yourself, " They are black. " ? Is there nothing wrong with that observation?

[jefferiah]

If you see Barack Obama and Halle Berry walking down the street, do you think to yourself, " They are black. " ? Is there nothing wrong with that observation?

Of course there is nothing wrong with that observation. I may not actually say the words, but the realization hits me. A five year old could point it out to you. You see the same thing. But you cannot admit it. Seeing that does not mean you think less of someone. If you see someone walking down the street with a mangled face covered in burn marks do you pretend you didnt see it?

There is no reason to feel guilty over the fact that you have eyeballs. When you see a black person you automatically notice it. This is not racism. When a black person sees me he sees right away that I am white. This is not offensive. This does not mean you are judging them. Look you could say the same thing about hair color or eye color and people would not be so touchy about it. Why are people so uptight about this? Hiding from this fact is not going to make the world a better place or stop discrimination. Because seeing distinction does not mean that one thinks one is better.

remiel:

Do these people not have a right to be accepted for who they are, and not for what people choose to see, or rather, choose not to see?

Remiel, we have said time and again that we do not feel anyone is superior, so the fact that we see people and notice they are black does not mean we do not accept them for who they are. You can see it. Why do you think that seeing something means you don't accept people? Where does this logic come from? Its silly. If there was a man walking down the street with a long long beard, you would notice it right away. This does not mean that you are judging him by his beard. If he was wearing a bright pink shirt with a picture of 1000 smiling dancing elephants on it, you would see it. But seeing that does not mean you are judging him. Seeing is seeing.

Children are very good indicators of unconditioned thought. Children do not necessarily have a preconceived notion of racism unless they are taught it, but they have eyes and they can see, they know what they see. A lot of white children, the first time they see a black child will ask their parents (because he looks different from any other child he has seen). The fact that the child can plainly see this does not mean he is basing his whole judgement of the person on this. But he can't help seeing it. I knew a girl of the pale variety who was travelling in Asia. She went to a small remote village (I cannot remember where) but apparently white people were quite a rarity there. People crowded around her, looked at her, wanted to touch her. They did not think she was evil or bad, but they noticed that hey-----this looks drastically different from the ordinary. This is not evil. They see it. Seeing it does not mean you are going to want to hurt it. You see it. I see it. Seeing distinction in things does not have to be a bad thing you know. Or else, we had might as well adopt the Star Trek uniform, eh comrade.

Do you want me to prove that you see it?

You would not have been able to ask me the question about Halle Berry and Obama if you had no idea that they were black. Thanks for the admission, Sir. You have helped me a great deal in making my point. Dont feel guilty about understanding this. It does not mean you think you are superior. It means you know what a black person is.

What does the fact that a Sikh was murdered have to do with Kimmy having a blonde kid? Don't you have any power of distinction? Do you think everyone is a complete idiot? Kimmy is not trying to attack someone or judge someone because of their race. You people are getting ridiculously uptight over something simply because you think you are being noble by being overly painfully concerned about race, when no one is trying to hurt anyone or offend anyone. Have some sense, Sir. Look if you understand oneness, then you can move more fluently in the concept of distinction. If you really believe in things like oneness then you shoud have no problem with duality. The fact that this bothers you shows me you know nothing of it, but can only conceive of creating a oneness on the surface of things. The folly of communism.

Edited July 23, 2007 by jefferiah

[Remiel]

Perhaps you would like to show me where I disparaged kimmy, or even mentioned kimmy, before this point?

I have no ill words for her.

Back to the other point though: Barack Obama is the son of a Kenyan and a European American, Halle Berry is the daughter of an African American and an Englishwoman. In those cases, your " observation " that they were " black " would be incorrect, because it only tells half of the story.

[jefferiah]

Perhaps you would like to show me where I disparaged kimmy, or even mentioned kimmy, before this point?

I have no ill words for her.

Back to the other point though: Barack Obama is the son of a Kenyan and a European American, Halle Berry is the daughter of an African American and an Englishwoman. In those cases, your " observation " that they were " black " would be incorrect, because it only tells half of the story.

and your point is?

[jefferiah]

I must admit Remiel you did get me there. But nonetheless....

I was not looking for Obama's life story or to figure out who is ancestors were, i am trying to defend people who say they want to marry a white person and have white kids, and since it is their decision they get to decide what they consider white.

Obama is a good example of how it would be hard to maintain the characteristics they wish to preserve. You used Obama because he looks black. And you notice it. I am not saying Obama is any less because of this, but at the same time I see nothing wrong with people who are not biracial either. So.....how does this affect you?

Edited July 23, 2007 by jefferiah

[jefferiah]

Anyways Remiel someone argued that it was wrong to distinguish race because we are all a big human family. I dont dispute that we are a human family, but I realize for practical purposes reasonable distinctions can be made. So can there be mistakes, such as the one I made. But it doesnt matter to me about marrying anyone of a particular race or whatever if race doesnt exist. But if people have a decent idea of what they mean by race within relative terms, I dont see anything wrong with them making a concious decision not to intermarry. I don't think it is right to belittle someone for intermarrying either, but I can also respect the choice not to intermarry. Now people can argue that there are fuzzy lines between race or no one is really pure, etc etc. We've gone over this time and again in this thread over the past thirty some pages. If someone decides not to intermarry let them also decide what a white girl is. As long as they don't plan on belittling someone else or burning crosses on my lawn, I dont see anything wrong with it.

Edited July 24, 2007 by jefferiah

[ScottSA]

This thread seems to have meandered into various nit-pickings, ranging from Kuzzads inane insistence that "race" by any other name is caucasaisian racism, to Remiel's irrelevant observations on Obama.

The fact remains that caucasians will become a minority in their own homelands within this century, if immigration is not stopped and caucasian birthrate isn't increased. And yes, Kuzzad, caucasians do exist, and no, they do not only exist to hurt "other groups" of people.

[M.Dancer]

Caucasian Homelands?

There's an immigration problem in Northern Iran? Turkey? and Armenia?

Gee Wilikers Scott.......For you I nominate The Falklands as your personal homeland.....nary a gollywog and lots of sheep for you to....umm......discourse with.....

[ScottSA]

Caucasian Homelands?

There's an immigration problem in Northern Iran? Turkey? and Armenia?

Gee Wilikers Scott.......For you I nominate The Falklands as your personal homeland.....nary a gollywog and lots of sheep for you to....umm......discourse with.....

I think the persians might object if we trundled over and set up a homeland in Tehran. What do you think?

[Bonam]

He does have a point though in that not all nations with Caucasian majorities have high immigration rates. A major example of this is eastern Europe.

[ScottSA]

He does have a point though in that not all nations with Caucasian majorities have high immigration rates. A major example of this is eastern Europe.

I don't think that was his point, but yes, you're right. Hopefully they'll get to see the cultural meltdown in western europe in time to put the brakes on immigration there. It'll be irony upon irony if we somehow find ourselves in the future heading back to the safety of eastern Europe.

[Bonam]

Yeah, I don't think anyone would find much safety in eastern Europe regardless of demographic trends elsewhere. Eastern Europe is and pretty much has always been a complete mess, which is also the main reason that it doesn't have many immigrants in the first place.

Still though, it's important to note that high immigration and the possible decline into a minority of Caucasians is a feature only of Western culture, not of all Caucasian cultures.

[Moxie]

I'm not concerned with "White Culture" persay I'm concerned with preserving our Canadian Culture. Unlike the hard left I believe we have one and I believe it's worth fighting them for.

On a side note Germans are fleeing their country faster than the current government can replace them with immigrants, mostly Asians who aren't trying to integrate with German Culture. Canada is benifiting from their out migration, NS is getting alot of new rich and educated Germans yearly. I hope the thrend continues, their loss is our gain.

[ScottSA]

I'm not concerned with "White Culture" persay I'm concerned with preserving our Canadian Culture. Unlike the hard left I believe we have one and I believe it's worth fighting them for.

On a side note Germans are fleeing their country faster than the current government can replace them with immigrants, mostly Asians who aren't trying to integrate with German Culture. Canada is benifiting from their out migration, NS is getting alot of new rich and educated Germans yearly. I hope the thrend continues, their loss is our gain.

That is happening all across western Europe. The Native Europeans are emmigrating at tremendous rates not seen ever before, and Muslims are swarming in. I feel for the Europeans who can't leave...their future is looking more dire by the day.

[capricorn]

The question is, which demographics is our present immigration system favouring? Do any one of us know? I surely don't.

[sharkman]

That is happening all across western Europe. The Native Europeans are emmigrating at tremendous rates not seen ever before, and Muslims are swarming in. I feel for the Europeans who can't leave...their future is looking more dire by the day.

That's bizarre. What are the reasons these Europeans are leaving? Their EU has made the whole greater than the sum of its parts, and European culture is envied, is it not? They're not leaving because of racial tension, are they?

[M.Dancer]

Caucasian Homelands?

There's an immigration problem in Northern Iran? Turkey? and Armenia?

Gee Wilikers Scott.......For you I nominate The Falklands as your personal homeland.....nary a gollywog and lots of sheep for you to....umm......discourse with.....

I think the persians might object if we trundled over and set up a homeland in Tehran. What do you think?

I think Persians are Caucasians like us.....quick learn the mother, get a Larousse Farsi in Fifty Minutes.....tongue

[FascistLibertarian]

So ScottSA, you see Canada as a white homeland?

And you see it as being built only by whites?

Well screw that, the Scottish people built this country, with some help from the English.

I therefore think we need to be concerned about keeping the Scottish race pure.

Would you not agree, after all Scots have contributed the most to this country....

We should make sure they dont have their pureness ruined by the lesser whites. Controlled breeding with the English should be allowed in some cases.

Do you see non-white Canadians as less Canadian than whites? (I think it is clear you do but your probably to much of a coward to admit your racist views online much less in the real world).

I think the persians might object if we trundled over and set up a homeland in Tehran. What do you think?

The only ethnically 'pure' countries (and even not 100%) like Japan and Korea are going to be int ons of trouble when they cant replace their population without immigration.

So ScottSA, how many kids do you have? If you have under 3 then you really have no right to be spewing any of this.

[ScottSA]

So ScottSA, you see Canada as a white homeland?

And you see it as being built only by whites?

Well screw that, the Scottish people built this country, with some help from the English.

I therefore think we need to be concerned about keeping the Scottish race pure.

Would you not agree, after all Scots have contributed the most to this country....

We should make sure they dont have their pureness ruined by the lesser whites. Controlled breeding with the English should be allowed in some cases.

Do you see non-white Canadians as less Canadian than whites? (I think it is clear you do but your probably to much of a coward to admit your racist views online much less in the real world).

I think the persians might object if we trundled over and set up a homeland in Tehran. What do you think?

The only ethnically 'pure' countries (and even not 100%) like Japan and Korea are going to be int ons of trouble when they cant replace their population without immigration.

So ScottSA, how many kids do you have? If you have under 3 then you really have no right to be spewing any of this.

Obviously you haven't taken the time to read the thread, and if you have, it doesn't speak well of your analytical skills, sweal.

[Melanie_]

Jefferiah, you have made a lot of interesting arguments, and I don’t disagree with you for the most part. But you keep implying that you and ScottSA have the same position and I think that is stretching. Scott wants a Caucasian homeland, which means that yes, he does want to start his own group, and yes, he does want to cause harm to other “races” – what does he propose to do with the non-Caucasians currently living in this homeland? And how white do you have to be to live in this homeland? There are plenty of non white Canadians who have been here for generations – is he proposing a second class citizenship, or shipping them off to other countries that they have only a marginal connection to, based on some ancestor getting on a ship? Oh, I guess he is…

If this grand experiment disintegrates into regional balkanization along racial lines, and it is already showing signs of strain, everyone else has someplace to go home to.

ScottSA…

Is anyone concerned that Caucasians are intentionally destroying themselves as a homogenous race?

Apparently I didn’t get the memo; I didn’t realize I was part of an international plot to undermine my “race” when I married a man whose grandparents were from India, and gave birth to 4 brownish children. Somehow the colour of his skin was only a part of the package, not the impetus for my choice.

Yup. I'm certainly not going to contribute to submerging my Caucasian genes,

Good for you. That’s your choice to make, but it seems to carry with it an implied condemnation of other people’s choices.

I see no reason why I would voluntarly want to become a minority. Given the fact that this is the land of last resort for caucasians, I see no reason why caucasians would want to allow themselves to become a minority. There is another, darker truth afoot out there too. There is not one instance in historical memory that races with parity of numbers and power have been able to co-exist peacefully for any length of time, and no reason to believe they were able in pre-history either.

You are imagining bogeymen under the bed. I don’t see any indication that the “white race” will disappear anytime soon; there are plenty of white people around, marrying white people, to continue the genetic footprint. Even my kids, half white and half Indian, are dating whites and are likely to marry whites – should their dad be concerned that this will somehow lead to the destruction of the Indian “race”? Actually, if I am following this thread right (and Lord knows that is a challenge), my kids are more Caucasian from their dad’s heritage (Indian) than from mine (apparently Ukranian isn't Caucasian?). I’m also not sure how you have decided that Canada is the land of last resort for Caucasians.

[M.Dancer]

ScottSA…

Is anyone concerned that Caucasians are intentionally destroying themselves as a homogenous race?

Apparently I didn’t get the memo; I didn’t realize I was part of an international plot to undermine my “race” when I married a man whose grandparents were from India, and gave birth to 4 brownish children. Somehow the colour of his skin was only a part of the package, not the impetus for my choice.

Scott isn't really clear on what or who a caucasian is. Scott tinks for some reason, that caucasain refers to skin complexion. He is of course wrong.

1. Anthropology Of or being a major human racial classification traditionally distinguished by physical characteristics such as very light to brown skin pigmentation and straight to wavy or curly hair, and including peoples indigenous to Europe, northern Africa, western Asia, and India. No longer in scientific use. See Usage Note at race1.

For the record, your husbands grandparents are also caucasian.

Edited July 24, 2007 by M.Dancer

[ScottSA]

Jefferiah, you have made a lot of interesting arguments, and I don’t disagree with you for the most part. But you keep implying that you and ScottSA have the same position and I think that is stretching. Scott wants a Caucasian homeland, which means that yes, he does want to start his own group, and yes, he does want to cause harm to other “races” – what does he propose to do with the non-Caucasians currently living in this homeland? And how white do you have to be to live in this homeland? There are plenty of non white Canadians who have been here for generations – is he proposing a second class citizenship, or shipping them off to other countries that they have only a marginal connection to, based on some ancestor getting on a ship? Oh, I guess he is…

You are completely wrong in our imputations, actually. My point here has been, all along, that floodgate immigration will first make caucasians a minority, and may eventually, through whatever means, make caucasians extinct as a 'race'.

My proposed solution is to stop immigration now, and allow such integration as is possible to take place over the next few generations. Coupled with this, we should allow economic need to drive the birth rate of those who are here now instead of relying on immigration.

The homeland issue only came up as a point of fact to describe a time when caucasians no longer have majority status in any location. They will, at that point, have no point of retreat. No 'homeland.' Idiots on this thread have taken that and run with it, turning it into some call for greater Aryania or whatever, and it is no such thing. Non-whites in the west would continue just the way they are now, with full rights of citizenship and full and equal participation in society.

What exactly is wrong with the above? Why do you feel a moral imperitive to allow this country to become majority non-caucasian? What is so important about it in your mind? Would you feel the same if Africa suddenly became the immigration target of choice and Blacks started to complain that they will soon become a minority in their countries?

And please stop concocting nonsense and trying to claim it came from my mouth.

[M.Dancer]

My point here has been, all along, that floodgate immigration will first make caucasians a minority, and may eventually, through whatever means, make caucasians extinct as a 'race'.

What's the population of India? I'm sure being the most populous caucasian homeland, they will have room for just one more...alternatively, if we promote greater immigration from the sub continent.........

[M.Dancer]

Interestingly, while the term Caucasian is no longer of any scientific meaning, in Europe it has a very clear meaning, someone from the Caucasus region......and only in the US does Caucasian in its archaic usage still have meaning (even though legally they classify indo americans as Caucasians...)

.....Now speaking of obsolete, the US is also the only nation left that uses the un-scientific inch.......